/in-Vitational Game 5, Simon Mafia 2: Game Over before 832

[Lord Gurgi]

I forgot this was starting.

Vote: Nuwen

<3

[Lord Gurgi]

This RVS is boring me.

Vote: DDD

[Lord Gurgi]

Actually when you vote someone who can't defend themselves, you get to see who jumps to the valiant defense.

[Lord Gurgi]

Actually when you vote someone who can't defend themselves, you get to see who jumps to the valiant defense.

So, basically do something scummy and see who attacks? That's basically what it is.

With a chainsaw, yes. :)

[Lord Gurgi]

I was just poking a coma patient, and you jabbed me in the eye. It's not like he can feel it anyway.

Stretch, stretch, stretch the thin metaphor!

[Lord Gurgi]

I'm not serious. Were I serious, chances are I'd be voting for him.

Batt, do your FoS's actually mean anything?

[Lord Gurgi]

It doesn't seem to matter, because people keep doing it every time.

Is that an Ether avatar?

[Lord Gurgi]

Is that an Ether avatar?

Yeah. She touched my special profile place.

:(

She might need to try something new if it's that obvious.

Also <3

[Lord Gurgi]

Well, see, I think that FoS'ing without voting is a reliable tell.

[Lord Gurgi]

Why aren't you voting? It's not for lack of suspects, so what is it?

[Lord Gurgi]

Now I'm confused, because what Nuwen said makes sense to me. Are you voting her for some other reason, Patrick?

[Lord Gurgi]

He's got three suspects, it's not like this is a terribly volatile situation. There's no reason not to vote, and plenty of reason to vote.

[Lord Gurgi]

Mod

: What happens to a room with nobody in it?[/b]

I think that since the Bellhoppery fails if two people try to do it, if the scum mess with the plan, then they'll have confirmed our Bellhop, or they'll be forced to claim and try to get him/her lynched. I like having confirmed unkillable people that can make others unkillable. I also like killing scum early. As I see it, we can either control who the scum can kill, or they can try to get us to lynch our bellhop, which still means they lose a guy. This looks like a win-win to me.

[Lord Gurgi]

Goat is my post invisible?

[Lord Gurgi]

Oh, wait I misread it. I thought if two people use a movement ability, it fails. Point is, that the scum can't really thwart us without confirming our Bellhop.

[Lord Gurgi]

Why do we have to force anything? If we just colourclaim and start moving people, that'll work. If it fails, the Bellhop claims. No counterclaim, we have a confirmed unkillable, counterclaim, we have 50/50 of confirmed unkillable or 1-1.

[Lord Gurgi]

Llama, protecting a confirmed innocent is definitely superior to four unknowns.

[Lord Gurgi]

LG: And where do we get a confirmed innocent today? As far as I can see, we only know there's at least one bellhop of unspecified alignment.

Okay, so the scum take the chance that there's no town bellhop, or we get a confirmed bellhop, or there are two. Only SpyreX is that ballsy. Long term, man, long term.

[Lord Gurgi]

Well since you're being so helpful on that matter, at least contribute in more conventional means. You and Llama both.

[Lord Gurgi]

I think it's important to know what the heck is up. If we're moving people into a certain floor, we don't know if people are being moved back and forth and in what quantities, unless they claim, and we don't know if they're telling the truth. I don't feel comfortable with individual cases claiming without a baseline from which to work. It seems to me like the scum benefit from everyone being in the dark. The scum could be moving themselves from floor to floor, we don't know, the best thing we can do is try to pin everyone down, every day, on record, as being on a particular floor. I don't think that we have a good chance of using the lock to our benefit unless we at least attempt to bind the scum to something. Unless we all claim our colours every day, we will be carrying water in a bucket without a bottom. Every person we move onto the safe floor will be moved off the very next day, and the crummy part is, unless we claim ahead of time, the first inkling we have of it, will be on their corpse the next day. I mean, the extent of how badly this could go unless we do is horrifying. If people don't claim, the mafia will be running around behind the scenes undermining our plans. As we plan to lock out a floor, they cackle because they know there's only one guy on that floor. As we plan to lock out a floor we think are filled with scummy people, they cackle because they know it's got our cop in it.

You can't suggest that we should only claim when people are moved, because then the scum can fabricate their movements, and we won't know, they can move without telling us, and we won't know. There's no guarantee we will if we claim, but we have to try. If we remain unclaimed, the scum have much more reliable information than we do. I don't see this as breaking the game. I see this as the reason that voting is public. If votes were cast secretly, there would be no question of whether or not they were to be claimed publicly. It is the standard operating procedure of every game to give the scum as little wiggle room as is humanly possible. Staying in the dark might save us someone tonight, but it won't save us someone when it counts. By the end of the game, the scum will have built up a cache of moved players, so that they know who they can and cannot kill, and we don't. Perhaps you might want to wait to mass-colour-claim, but I think that unless we do it today, the scum will plausibly be able to claim just about any floor they so choose, for whatever tactical reason.

Regardless, I don't appreciate the detractors (DDD and Llama) that are not proposing some alternate topic for discussion, but expecting the room to bestow one upon them. Hopefully this post will get the ball rolling on the colour-claim so that we can move on to the game at hand. Sorry for the wall of text, for those of you that do not like them, but I felt it was necessary to condense it in one post rather than stretch it along.

In regards to Nuwen's question: Since the claimed Bellhop would be moved at the beginning of the following day, the Bellhop would claim his movement and we would then lock that floor for the next night. We could follow the Bellhop from floor to floor, but this would eliminate any possibility of creating a 'safe floor'. On the upside, if the scum are preoccupied with moving the Bellhop, everyone else will be movable according to our intentions, such that we could move as many players as we can manage onto a single floor and then gradually whittle away possibilities for scum. Frankly, the mafia is, in the long term, forced to leave the Bellhop as is, or risk the eventual bleed-out. They are presented with the choice between the 'safe floor' and the endgame scenario in which we inevitably win. This is all dependent upon a full colour claim, of course.

TDC: Does this satisfactorily answer your question? I don't think there's anything left for me to elaborate on.

As for my lynch candidate, I feel that my vote has become more well-advised since I first cast it, and I'll be staying where I am for now.

That's about it.

[Lord Gurgi]

Maybe it's me, but I don't think we can do anything with a bellhop claim unless we know FL's colour. Unless anyone has any objections, I'd like to lock whatever floor she's on.

FL: You know if you click the quote button you'll get the name included. It's much easier than copy-pasting.

LF is giving me a bad feeling. I wonder why DDD is lurking.

[Lord Gurgi]

This is the part where I want to know who's on what floor. It makes motivations a lot more clear.

[Lord Gurgi]

So all we need to do is be psychic.

[Lord Gurgi]

You, for one, considering how you seemed to be edging against this, but jumped on without hesitation when it came out.

[Lord Gurgi]

The colour-claim, the bellhop claim, etc.

[Lord Gurgi]

Lock: Green

. Is it locked yet?

Also let's lynch DDD.

[Lord Gurgi]

I don't think DDD's reaction to SpyreX is town. I'm surprised that PJ/Flay hasn't stepped in yet.

[Lord Gurgi]

TDC: It seemed like you were pushing against it for the sake of doing so should it fail, then when it went too far to stop, you were rushing to get on. It's opportunistic.

Goat: There is an intangible line that one can cross when you get angry and I feel that the sudden and extreme response he made crossed that line. Why he would get angry at Spyrex alone and not everyone attacking him makes me think something's up as well.

[Lord Gurgi]

It's not a metaphor, I mean I can't tell you where the line is, but I know when people cross it.

DDD, as far as I know, it's against site rules to carry grudges from game to game.

[Lord Gurgi]

I think it's scummy to cross it so suddenly. If it were a long and gradual build up, it's a null-tell barring a special meta.

[Lord Gurgi]

Hi Nuwen, do you want me to ask or should I wait for someone else?

[Lord Gurgi]

Alright. I'm already writhing from my cereal, though. It's the last bit, so it's got all the dust in it, which is absolutely terrible, I tell you.

[Lord Gurgi]

Because I have a serious problem, after a few recent games, with people carrying personal vendettas into games.

[Lord Gurgi]

If you're attacking only particular people out of those attacking you, it's scummy.

If you're attacking only particular people because you have a personal issue with them, I want it to stop.

Either way, it doesn't enamor me with DDD. It seems simple to me. I assumed it was the scum motivation because I think he's scum.

Hi Elmo.

Is anyone else having problems loading mafiascum?

[Lord Gurgi]

If you're attacking only particular people out of those attacking you, it's scummy.

If you're attacking only particular people because you have a personal issue with them, I want it to stop.

Either way, it doesn't enamor me with DDD. It seems simple to me. I assumed it was the scum motivation because I think he's scum.

Hi Elmo.

Is anyone else having problems loading mafiascum?

[Lord Gurgi]

Well I thought you were referring to that since it seems obvious that your colour is related to whether or not you want to lock a colour.

[Lord Gurgi]

I don't even know anymore. I didn't like how it went down. Something didn't smell right, and it still doesn't.

[Lord Gurgi]

I'm not in the habit of asking people why they do things. It's not productive. Or at least, when I do, it's less to know why they do things than to see if they answer. It wasn't your plan, it was my plan, dang it, and you were saying it wasn't good, and gradually shifted over to support it as everyone else did the same. I never said you were suspicious if you were or weren't green, because there's scum motivations from both perspectives, but if we find out which one you may have, it'll be helpful later. The reason WHY I wanted to have the colour claim before the bellhop claim is that now the scum frigging know what colour to claim to make their stories plausible. The fact that you were fighting that makes me suspicious of you. The fact that you're trying to turn it around on me makes me angry. Had you claimed green or not BEFORE FL had claimed, we might have something, but now it's all moot. Now we can't sort fact from fiction at all. If you are scum, it's in your best interest to have the Bellhop claim before any colour claiming.

Any colour claims we try now are useless, unless you want to gamble on people being evenly distributed amongst the floors. Frigging stuff I was trying to keep down to see if the scum might claim without knowing. Frick.

[Lord Gurgi]

Yes, but before you know it's green, you don't know what to claim, since you apparently can't see the future. Now you know it's green, you do know what to claim. Everyone does. It's not complex.

[Lord Gurgi]

Like I said, I figured if I kept going, the scum might not realise, but it's not worth keeping up if people aren't going to. You didn't realise, and I had to spell it out, so it might have worked.

[Lord Gurgi]

Yes.

[Lord Gurgi]

I'm not sure what element of our exchange was confusing.

[Lord Gurgi]

I didn't vote TDC.

I was pushing for a colour-claim before a Bellhop could claim so that the scum wouldn't alter their claim to fit with the Bellhop's colour. When the Bellhop claimed, that kind of became moot. Since no one was saying anything about it, I figured if I could push it really quickly and get it through, we might just get real claims from people. When TDC started to attack that, and other people started to express dislike for the idea on a whole, it stopped being a good idea to push it, and I kind of exploded in that post about it because the town as a whole just made it harder to get the plan to work smoothly. I spent a few posts explaining this to TDC, and then I admitted that on an individual basis it was a bad idea to follow me, but if we'd all gone along, the scum would've had no other choice.

Seems clear to me.

[Lord Gurgi]

Ah, the benefit of hindsight. The Walrus will play a song for you.

[Lord Gurgi]

Right, back to the game. Let's all lynch DDD. I could survive on a LF lynch if I had to.

Nuwen: Finish your coffee yet?

[Lord Gurgi]

Goat, you know as well as I do that on page two, random bandwagoning and lol reactions is the pinnacle of scumhunting. If someone doesn't do it, we sit around in a circle staring attentively at eachother's faces. I've since provided more explanation. I'm not sure if you're calling me out for something I did, or if you're attacking SpyreX, and the ambiguity bothers me.

At the same time, SpyreX, ZazieR was explaining actions from more than a week ago. Since he's rereading now, at least give him a chance to get a stance, or change his vote. I don't like how you jump on the person that's least able to defend themselves.

[Lord Gurgi]

Why not give him a chance to do things naturally first?

[Lord Gurgi]

Normally, he might choose to just stay on it without explanation or offer the explanation himself. If you say that he must explain immediately or you'll wagon him to death, guess which he'll choose.

[Lord Gurgi]

I suppose, if you don't think that once it's unnatural, anything more is moot.

[Lord Gurgi]

Thats not what I'm getting at exactly. Saying I've altered the natural course of events in such a fashion alters them even moreso. Which is even odder because I think a vote after said shenanigans is fairly natural. :P

Although, overall I'm fine with this conversation because this game needs a swift kick to get some movement done before we start getting deadlineitis.

I like to see how people react without telling them how they should. Except when I don't. Point is, as far as I'm concerned, this was a time for natural, and once it's become artificial, the degree to which it is matters less than stopping you from going down a route that the town does not need to go down.

Patrick: I'd really love if people could tell me what they're suspicious of rather than just telling me that I am. I'm all for unexplained votes, but I can't defend against something I don't know about. I'm pretty sure I've explained why I was still pushing for the colour-claim, what else is there?

Also, it would probably be beneficial for you to cast a vote considering the looming deadline.

DDD has stopped posting. It's not easy to strengthen a wagon when he's not posting. People, either get on this wagon so we're doing something, or tell me why you have a better option. I don't like the number of people detracting from this wagon but adding nothing of their own (it's more than three).

Nuwen is also lurking. I don't think it means anything, since I've never known her to lurk, ever.

Elmo is posting more infrequently than I would expect at this juncture. You're supposed to be helpful. >:(

Just about the only people I'm satisfied with the activity from are SpyreX, Goat, and TDC.

[Lord Gurgi]

I said at the time it was either a vendetta or scummy. That said, I acknowledge the wagon isn't made of steel, but it's better than the alternative nothing.

Mostly Elmo and ZazieR aren't doing anything. That has a small negative effect. The other folk are just shooting things down. In my eyes, that's more unhelpful.

Maybe I should find another wagon, but if the new one isn't any stronger, is it a good idea? I don't really think so. If I were being IS, and finding townies, I'd be having an easy time, but that's not very popular these days.

[Lord Gurgi]

I post, therefore I am. You do not.

[Lord Gurgi]

Nuwen: DDD is my perennial candidate. I don't really have a reason other than he's lurking and annoys me. If he were actually interested in repelling suspicion and actively helping, I don't think he'd be lurking. Somehow him telling me my case is terrible and that's why he's not posting doesn't mesh with my idea of townie play. After that I pick LF, because claiming apathy is a cop out.

I'm not sure if you missed my very long explanation on why I was pushing the colour-claim. It was very much a now-or-never situation. If you're fine with never, then that's your thing.

Since no one really responded to what I was hoping, does anyone mind terribly if I start hunting for townies? Since we have random blocking and protection, it might not be so prone to the negatives.

DDD: Why do you think you were the only one to call me on the issue of "passing the buck"? Also, I didn't remember Goat doing that. I sort of glaze over sometimes when a whole bunch happens while I'm gone. It's why I try to stay active.

Final question for Nuwen, what do you mean, where's the vote? I'm pretty sure I was already voting for him at the time.

This is really the last bit, people who've played with ZazieR before might be able to tell me, does he usually lurk? I've sort of let it be for now because he seems like a lurker in general by personality.

[Lord Gurgi]

As far as I can tell, locking down scum FL and town FL both have benefits, so I don't see it as a great and mighty problem. As far as her alignment, FL is more impulsive than any three of us put together as either alignment, I don't think she's done anything yet that means anything. That said, I was still majorly bamboozled last time she was scum in a game with me. That's right, bamboozled.

[Lord Gurgi]

Indeed.

[Lord Gurgi]

It seems like this game has lurkers and townies. Goat is town, Patrick is (always) town, SpyreX seems townish, TDC is town, Nuwen is probably townish (not that I can read her for anything), forbiddanlight's neutral, DDD is becoming neutral as he bothers to post, Elmo's not posting, Batt's not posting, ZazieR's not posting, LlamaFluff is scummy.

Wheeeeeeee.

[Lord Gurgi]

Unvote

, I guess.

Vote: Llama

?

[Lord Gurgi]

This page is not fun for me.

I feel like I've gone over this every page for the last five. Could you guys explain to me what I need to expand on? What 'trap' are you both talking about? I was trying to get honesty out of people before they woke up, where was the trap? I'm really quite annoyed that people are angry at me for trying to get this game

going

somewhere. You're all happy to criticise people doing nothing, but seem to view wagons you disagree with as worse.

Walrus Song:

Half past twelve
And I'm read the game in my flat all alone
How I hate to spend the evening on my own
Autumn winds
Blowing outside the window as I look around the room
And it makes me so depressed to see the gloom
There's not a soul out there
No one to hear my prayer

Gimme! Gimme! Gimme! Yos after midnight!
Won't somebody help me chase the lurkers away
Gimme gimme gimme Yos after midnight
Take me through the darkness to the break of the day

Mafia pros
Find the end of the rainbow, with their fortune to win
It's so different from the world I'm living in
Tired of Mafia
I open the window and I gaze into the night
But there's nothing there to see, no one in sight
There's not a soul out there
No one to hear my prayer

Gimme! Gimme! Gimme! Yos after midnight!
Won't somebody help me chase the lurkers away
Gimme gimme gimme Yos after midnight
Take me through the darkness to the break of the day

Gimme! Gimme! Gimme! Yos after midnight!
Won't somebody help me chase the lurkers away
Gimme gimme gimme Yos after midnight
Take me through the darkness to the break of the day

There's not a soul out there
No one to hear my prayer

Gimme! Gimme! Gimme! Yos after midnight!
Won't somebody help me chase the lurkers away
Gimme gimme gimme Yos after midnight
Take me through the darkness to the break of the day

Gimme! Gimme! Gimme! Yos after midnight!
Won't somebody help me chase the lurkers away
Gimme gimme gimme Yos after midnight
Take me through the darkness to the break of the day

[Lord Gurgi]

I did. Pages ago. Please at least read what I have posted.

[Lord Gurgi]

If I understand right this is what you were talking about

I was pushing for a colour-claim before a Bellhop could claim so that the scum wouldn't alter their claim to fit with the Bellhop's colour. When the Bellhop claimed, that kind of became moot. Since no one was saying anything about it, I figured if I could push it really quickly and get it through, we might just get real claims from people.

This is basically you saying that you wanted a color claim so scum would have to fit their claim to a color later, instead of having both freedoms. I still however fail to see how this small advantage outweighs the fact that if a complete claim went through, that scum would know everyones location.

Im not sure if im just missing something here or what, but the cons seem to outweigh the pros by a whole lot.

So, if someone claimed green now, would you assume they were locked in for tonight? Tomorrow night? The night after that? It destroys the possibility to actually account for where people are.

[Lord Gurgi]

If the scum have some role that is immune to such roles?

[Lord Gurgi]

Immune to what?

a role that can pick up color/movement

[Lord Gurgi]

Immune to what?

a role that can pick up color/movement

This still doesnt mean that exposing where the town is to the scum will in some way trap scum or protect town that I can see.

Why do you think it's alright to say my idea is terrible because a role might be around, but it's not alright for me to rebutt with another role?

[Lord Gurgi]

Immune to what?

a role that can pick up color/movement

This still doesnt mean that exposing where the town is to the scum will in some way trap scum or protect town that I can see.

Why do you think it's alright to say my idea is terrible because a role might be around, but it's not alright for me to rebutt with another role?

What role?

Lets say town has this magic role that lets them see what floor someone is on. We massclaim color, scum risks getting caught, scum knows who can and cant be killed. I would be willing to take that risk as scum, and probably just claim my real color.

If such roles do exist that stand a small chance of nailing fakecolorclaiming scum, I still think it fails in comparison to scum knowing exactly who is off limits, and who they can take a shot at.

..And then I said, what if there's a role that's immune to this, not to mention that the checker might be locked down, or the checkee might.

[Lord Gurgi]

I dunno. He was the first person to ask why I was doing what I was doing. Everyone else was chummy enough to let me do what I wanted. After he first started asking, LF, Batt, and friends decided it was scummy. That and TDC listened to what I was saying. Practically everyone else is having the one argument with me twice or more.

Umm, I don't keep track of my games very well, or at all. As far as I know that's Monty Python and Lover Mafia. You might want to read You are what you eat instead, since I was an SK who faked a PR and never got a kill off. At the same time, You are what you eat was my first game after my hiatus and I was terrible. Unless you count Marathon games, in which case it was the Battle in Heaven game. Someone else might know better than I do. (Sad, I know)

Monty Python
You are what you eat
Lover's Mafia

[Lord Gurgi]

No worries.

[Lord Gurgi]

Erm, what makes you say that now?

[Lord Gurgi]

Compliments about past games always seem out of place.

[Lord Gurgi]

The case on you has been explained well. Not so much by me, but it shouldn't make a difference to the integrity of the case. Anyway, I'm willing to support a ZazieR lynch at deadline. Llama, any particular reason you're alone on your wagon rather than getting on a larger one?

Unvote;Vote: ZazieR

. My vote can stay here for now. More pressure on the lazy can't hurt.

[Lord Gurgi]

SpyreX, do you have anything more recent, or a particularly believable reason you posted this only now?

[Lord Gurgi]

Goat: Umm, because I like people to defend themselves. Sometimes people are too apathetic to do so until it's really close to deadline.

SpyreX: The issue is that there's no good reason for you to decide what he did was scummy

now

as opposed to then. You didn't draw any connections to newer posts, you just seem to have decided that it has become more scummy.

[Lord Gurgi]

When you explained your vote, it was all old stuff. I mostly just wanted other people to be aware.

Goat: If you could explain why this question matters at all, that'd be fantastic. Anyway, based on the knowledge that I did before, I think the answer is yes.

[Lord Gurgi]

Fun time question that Patrick probably should ask: Why are we lynching ZazieR and not Elmo?

[Lord Gurgi]

Fun time question that Patrick probably should ask: Why are we lynching ZazieR and not Elmo?

Maybe you could talk about this as well, as a Zazier voter. Do you have a preference between the two?

ZazieR had more votes. I don't like to lynch Elmo as a general thing.

[Lord Gurgi]

I don't want to lynch Elmo on day one because he tends to be helpful as either alignment. As far as I can tell, ZazieR doesn't.

[Lord Gurgi]

Data is me playing with him in Tofu, while people in this game have already attested to ZazieR.

[Lord Gurgi]

Most players are helpful as both alignments.

[Lord Gurgi]

Unhelpful lurker. I think if he were going to be replaced, he would have by now.

[Lord Gurgi]

Elmo has done less scummy than ZazieR.

[Lord Gurgi]

I'm back, but I still don't have any meaningful opinions - I'm halfway through rereading now. Feel free to ask me questions, or so? I'm still struggling to find anything interesting, that's the problem. (I don't think my stance on DDD was bad, although maybe I didn't express it well because it was late.)

Translation: I'm back, but I have no stance since I already know who all the townies are and I can't find anyone doing something scummy enough to frame

Unvote, vote Elmo

Admitting he has nothing is not the same as what you took it to mean. I prefer his presence to ZazieR's empty promises of the same.

[Lord Gurgi]

I'm not sure how that is supposed to convince me that Elmo is a more sensible lynch than ZazieR.

[Lord Gurgi]

I just don't see how what you point out that is definitively scummy doesn't apply to ZazieR. The rest is flimsy conjecture.

[Lord Gurgi]

Active Lurking isn't active? It's an active choice, at very least.

[Lord Gurgi]

Elmo really seems to be making a calm and intelligent defense for himself.

That

is a lot better than what ZazieR has done.

[Lord Gurgi]

Shouldn't ZazieR be the deadline lynch currently since he reached four votes first?

[Lord Gurgi]

This is silly. He hasn't done anything special to deserve being a semi-random lynch. This wagon has grown too quickly from nothing. *Guess* who's number three.

[Lord Gurgi]

Apathy extends to all alignments. I'm sure we've all had a game where we were dragged through, and I can tell you, in my experience, it's been nothing about my alignment, it's all been meatworld or bad player chemistry.

[Lord Gurgi]

So... FL. Don't you think DDD is being scummy? He's disappeared again.

[Lord Gurgi]

Can we cool off?

[Lord Gurgi]

So why did you folk only wake up when Goat told you? This is way too sheepy. He steps in and all three of you get right off the wagon.

[Lord Gurgi]

Why would Nuwen-scum defend Elmo from what was basically a random lynch? That was the most townie thing I've seen this whole game.

[Lord Gurgi]

Honestly, when I'm scum, I

dream

of random lynches. Scum can go for so long without being tied down to suspicions that way.

[Lord Gurgi]

I suppose. You could have reread when I told you to reevaluate.

[Lord Gurgi]

Patrick, even if that wasn't why

you

were on the wagon, that's why the other three were. That makes the wagon random.

Nuwen: What does splicing all alignments mean?

[Lord Gurgi]

DDD: Do you think there's a difference between prefacing a vote by saying that it's for reactions, and saying so only after the vote?

[Lord Gurgi]

Because everyone loves me?

[Lord Gurgi]

I always liked, "I realised that Gurgi is right in all things." Has a certain ring to it.

I'd still like to lynch DDD or LF.

[Lord Gurgi]

LF: It boils down to you complaining but not actually scumhunting at the time. If you actually think my suspicion is weak, you wouldn't have to fram it negatively in the question.

[Lord Gurgi]

Feh, good cover. [/sarcasm]

[Lord Gurgi]

I'm sure you've played many many games. That sort of behaviour shuts me out. You actively repelling me is not conducive to scumhunting. Stop it.

[Lord Gurgi]

Shutting me out from doing anything isn't going to convince me he's town. If he's scum, it's the worst possible thing. To let him do this without any inclination on his alignment is ridiculous.

[Lord Gurgi]

Come on, it's fine for your

personal

record, but it screws everyone else.

[Lord Gurgi]

You purposely framing what I say negatively is not shutting down my case, it's petty. Trying to shut me up is good for you regardless of your alignment, but it stops me from getting a read on you. People I can't read, I lynch. I am not going to stop.

[Lord Gurgi]

For the record, I find it scummy not to be voting at the end of the day. I'm on record for this.

[Lord Gurgi]

Same. but nonetheless,

Vote: LlamaFluff

. Not voting at the end of the day is scummy.

[Lord Gurgi]

Lock: Green

[Lord Gurgi]

Patrick is one of those that I would lynch for not dying Night One. So, I don't think it's particularly shocking he's dead, nor indicative of anything about Nuwen.

[Lord Gurgi]

Also, SpyreX, itchy about what?

[Lord Gurgi]

Let me know if you figure it out. I don't think I was going with the flow when the Elmo lynch was gathering steam, honestly, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[Lord Gurgi]

None really. I just figured. When I played with you last it didn't seem like anything you said had anything to do with your personal interests. I wasn't defending you because I thought you were town. As far as I'm concerned, if we're going to lynch a lurker, we might as well lynch someone who is less likely to be helpful. I feel like a broken record. It's just being objective.

[Lord Gurgi]

My computer is being sent off for repairs. It is a PC-o-garbage. I will be on heavy LA as a result.

[Lord Gurgi]

Elmoo: It means that from what I got of your internal thought, it didn't seem like when you posted you were thinking about someone of your alignment should say. It was just what you thought.

[Lord Gurgi]

You didn't address it. I kept bringing up the same points and you apparently feel you answered them satisfactorily. I do not. There's nothing more to be done.

[Lord Gurgi]

Got prodded by PJ. I don't have anything to say. Lynch Llama.

[Lord Gurgi]

SpyreX: It's because my computer broke.

[Lord Gurgi]

TDC, who do you suspect? I can't find you saying anything to that effect recently.

Incidentally, I think that's what Elmo meant. If you disagree with him, who do you think is the most scummy? It's generally a bad idea when asked who is scum to respond that it's not you, as you have done so far. Don't get me wrong, I don't think you're scum, but you're not helping yourself here.

Elmo: Lynch Llama!

Nuwen: Post! <3

Rah! 2 AM post woo!

[Lord Gurgi]

Lynch Llama because his intent in responding to anything I say about him is to kill a wagon, not to convince me that he's town.

[Lord Gurgi]

....?

[Lord Gurgi]

DDD, I don't understand why you don't think he's scum. A townie should be trying to convince people off their wagon, and if I think the person attacking me is town, even more so. With ten alive, if just one townie is on another townie's wagon, that leaves the last six (or less?) to decide unanimously on a scum wagon (I'm going to make a leap and say that the scum aren't going to bus if they don't have to). The scum can afford to have a townie on them, they just need to stop a wagon from growing. In Llama's defenses he doesn't care at all about what I think, he cares what the group thinks. That's not a terribly hard connection to make. Now, I can't think of any reason at all for a townie to be content while someone's voting them.

I assume that you are voting me because you think my case is bad. When I think about the leading lurker lynch, I have to wonder why you chose me.

TDC: Who do you suspect. After all this defense from you, I haven't seen you give an alternative.

[Lord Gurgi]

A townie should be trying to convince people off their wagon

I'm sure you've played many many games. That sort of behaviour shuts me out. You actively repelling me is not conducive to scumhunting. Stop it.

What is the difference here. End of day 1 (quote 2) you tell Llama to stop trying to repel you off his wagon, and here you are calling him scummy for not trying to repel you off his wagon. Eh?

There

is

a difference between shutting me out, repelling me, and repelling me off his wagon. Repelling me is just ticking me off, shutting me out is preventing me from validating or changing my read. Trying to convince me off his wagon cannot be done while repelling me and shutting me out.

[Lord Gurgi]

This

is

Elmo we're talking about. I do recall saying that he just says things because he believes they're correct, not because it's in his best interest.

[Lord Gurgi]

Here, Elmo. My computer's fixed now.

Top of my head:

Lynch Llama, etc, etc. Should I just stop bothering here, or what? I mean, perhaps it's just his playstyle, but he seems to want to be seen as a non-entity. For some reason, nobody seems to be humouring me and making some independent attempt to look at him more closely. I don't see why. I'm concerned that if people don't take my Llama suspicion seriously, then bad stuff.

Don't like some TDC stuff, can't make sense of what I think he is. Sort of like 3rd party, cult, maybe? There's just something off. He's not getting close or far from anyone in particular in the context of buddies or reads, yet seems to have a preference that some people be lynched. I feel kind of apathetic about lynching him, either way, though. Can someone explain this to me?

Alphabetical:

Batt is meh.

DDD is fading from the forefront, by memory. I can't say I like it.

Elmo is growing closer to neutral, there was something I didn't like.

FL is meh. If she weren't bellhop I'd be considering her.

Goat had something I didn't like yesterday. I can't quite remember what it was. At the same time, he hasn't done anything particularly scummy nor extraordinarily town.

SpyreX is not so town as I think, I think. Hard to contextualize, see below.

The entire Nuwen wagon was also on the ZazieR wagon. There has to be a connection there. Something is itching me about SpyreX, particularly, then Goat, then Batt, then FL pretty much gets a pass.

[Lord Gurgi]

Oh yeah, FL, I assume things went properly, last night?

[Lord Gurgi]

Lock: Green

Is the case against me that I'm not saying anyone is scum or that I'm only saying Fluff is scum? The two seem mutually exclusive.

I'm apprehensive about Goat's plan. I don't think now is the time for risks, or outguessing the mod.

[Lord Gurgi]

Yeah.

[Lord Gurgi]

How do I ensure his death?

I've told you all why he's scum, and you're not doing anything with it. Nobody's even bothered to look at him.

[Lord Gurgi]

I dunno, normally this is all I have to do to get a town moving. Usually the absolute certainty gets roughly half the people. Which is why I'm more conservative with who is scum/not later in the game.

I'd like to petition the mod for dayvig powers.

[Lord Gurgi]

I would like a sense of who you suspect, SpyreX. Since the rest of us are being so giving.

[Lord Gurgi]

What the heck are hackles?

[Lord Gurgi]

Chirp chirp.








...Moo?

[Lord Gurgi]

I'm feeling directionless just at the moment. It seems like the people I've seen as scummy, primarily DDD and LF, everyone else is simply uninterested in. Now that I think about it, I'm surprised that FL isn't trying to lead the town more. You're not even voting, FL, I just don't get it. Honestly, I've seen more of what needs to be said being said by Elmo and TDC than the practically confirmed townie. This feels sort of like a rant, I'm not sure where I'm going with it. Generic whining, I suppose. I suppose I should vote, but I don't see a purpose in voting when everyone knows who I want dead but couldn't care less. Might do a reread of SpyreX in the next day or two, if I start to get over this cold. Maybe join a fun-time popular wagon.

Batt: I don't get the Elmo wagon. If you find so much issue with TDC, why Elmo? Could you explain to me why I should get on wagons against the two people that are actually saying what should be said?

DDD: Could you just drop a quick list of stuff against SpyreX if you haven't already? It'll help if I have some direction in my reread.

Seems like the people with apparently strong convictions, like LF or TDC, should be voting. Particularly LF, who has dropped more names in relation to scum than anyone.

While I'm whining, Elmo have you gotten anything off your vote on me? I might as well defend myself from something if I'm not going to bother attacking. If not, what are your plans? Do you have plans? Maybe that was rude. Is it bad that I think it's not terrible to be rude with you even though I like you personally? I should probably go to sleep.

Am I harping too much on LF? I just feel like unless I point out that he does these things, everyone will just go along and notice.

Brainpuke over.

[Lord Gurgi]

So I reread SpyreX and I didn't really see anything. He just seemed like he was hyper at the beginning. It seemed like typical SpyreX play, to me, except for the marked absence of Elmo/TDC mentions for the beginning of the game. So I checked TDC, who random voted SpyreX out of the gate and then didn't really mention him fora long while. We all know that TDC has butted heads with Elmo. Elmo is pretty clean. I'm practically certain that Elmo is town, and I don't really see any strong connections between any of them to anyone else. So I'd think that if TDC or SpyreX are scum, they'll be scum together, but unless they both are, I won't consider Elmo. That SpyreX is now voting for TDC makes me wonder, because that case was never really explained. So out of this I make the following.

SpyreX: How about some explanation regarding TDC.
TDC: How do you feel about SpyreX and Elmo both getting on your case at different times? Do you think it means anything about you? About them?
Elmo: Could you address my earlier questions?

[Lord Gurgi]

So I sort of glazed over the TDC-Batt thing. Can I get a nice summary?

Why is the LF wagon only emerging now?

[Lord Gurgi]

SpyreX: Why do you find fault with TDC voting out of self preservation, but not LF's all-but-voting out of self preservation?

[Lord Gurgi]

Are you going to change your vote then, or do you find SpyreX scummiest and rather have a no lynch over LF/TDC?

There's still two days left until deadline, plenty of time for me to

move

cast my vote as needed.

Hmm, I wonder...

Seriously, I want a guy lynched, I'm still wondering why it emerged after no serious change. I don't know why it would be scum-driven, I'd still like a satisfying explanation about

something

. Lucky for me it looks like my vote might actually

matter

. Good leverage. I like that DDD is thinking similarly.

[Lord Gurgi]

What is unclear about why I'm not on the LF wagon? What stopped me from jumping on a wagon like a SpyreX is that this wagon on LF doesn't seem to be motivated by conviction. It seems just like the Nuwen wagon, like people are making a wagon because they think this guy is going to be lynched anyway. At any rate, this isn't my wagon, it's a bad wagon on a guy I suspect. I'm in a position I'll call a reverse-policy-lynch. I won't lynch him when people are getting on the wagon for such terrible reasons or unexplained. I would appreciate a little less hypocrisy, though, because when I explicitly asked why the LF wagon was only emerging now, the only answer I got was from LF! Now you ask me what I want explained.

[egorub]I notice that LF is voting for the other person I have primarily suspected in the long term out of self-interest.[/egorub] At the same time, Goat is dropping off the wagon and saying it's not a self-preservation vote. Please explain, Goat, how a vote on a non-candidate isn't self-preservation. Please explain why you got on the wagon in the first place, because I can't think of any aspects of your complaint that have changed since you got on.

I think Goat just killed the wagon, too. Now that I think about it,

Vote: DDD

. Don't grow this wagon quickly. If the people who join this wagon are who I predict they will be, I'll have a threesome all nicely sorted.

Elmo, have you got any convincing reasons to think LF is town? Your post where you say that you think the lynch is inevitable seems phrased with that knowledge.

Batt, I am having trouble making sense of that post. At the beginning it seems that you think he's town, and by the end you seem to think he's scum distancing from a townie wagon. Which is it.

Where's TDC?

[Lord Gurgi]

Voting a non-candidate IS self-preservation. That you don't understand it is why he did it. Why would he explicitly vote out of self-preservation when TDC was bit for it? So then he votes for a non-candidate for either townie points or a new wagon. Win-Win.

So the reason you got off the wagon is because of other people's reasoning for getting on it... The same reason I never got on it. It seems like I did what you did, but more clever.

Wait you are asking me to explain an explanation for a vote that may or may not already be invalidated then asking questions that would almost certainly invalidate it, following telling me it's silly. Why? Don't you think there's a conflict?

Thanks for the quick response.

[Lord Gurgi]

I don't think arguing LF's incompetence is a good arguing point.

Do you think my unwillingness to join the wagon is unreasonable?

If it is a pointless move, why are you trying to undermine it further? How can it be trickery if I announce my purpose from the outset? Do you think I inadvertently announced my purpose? I'm not sure how you can, in good conscience, maintain that I both intended subterfuge and to expose it. The two motives are contrary.

I think that two days is plenty of time for things to happen. Voting DDD may well help me sort out which connected group is scum and which is town. I'm probably not going to give you something better than this if you're unsatisfied. Do you have a better idea for how I should spend the time before deadline? I can't imagine you do, or you'd be off doing it.

[Lord Gurgi]

Why are you so aggressive? This seems new. I don't think an argument for the compulsive play makes sense in a game this slow, so you'd have to argue he made the worse decision.

I'll just put this down as difference of theory, unless you want to argue it, and waste time. I feel that the reasons that people join a wagon are important.

I don't see why you're accusing me of both, simultaneously. It seems preposterous. It seems to me like you're more angry that I explained what I did at the outset. Would you have preferred a two-word post?

I am trying to figure out with greater certainty. I'm willing to wait even one more day. I think people will mobilize if it gets close.

With the number of three man theories running around right now, why do you attack me for trying to figure out my thoughts, and Elmo for not doing so, and leave everyone else alone?

It seems like you're contradicting both sides of every part of my play. I'm not certain enough, then too certain. Too much subterfuge, too open about it. It's tiring, and a cheap tactic.

[Lord Gurgi]

Elmo, That would be a good question if it wasn't you asking it. This is why I think you're town and he's not. If anyone else had brought that up, I might think more of it, but that you were the first one to vocalise the connection only strengthens my opinion.

Goat, I'm sorry, but how I feel about DDD depends upon what happens. Waiting for results is not mutually exclusive with participation. I feel like I'm doing more right now than most other people, and you hounding me on this is not going to make me drop it, so it's not a productive use of your time. I don't like how you're handling this.

[Lord Gurgi]

Elmo: Can you link me to the post where you did this? The only one I can find is roughly a week before deadline, and you weren't even a real candidate at that point. I assume I'm just not looking properly. Because if that is the one, then it's rather massively different, just because of how close the deadline is.

[Lord Gurgi]

ZazieR wasn't a non-candidate. The point is that LF went for a non-candidate, not TDC. TDC did what you did, and I didn't get on him, SpyreX did.

[Lord Gurgi]

You've completely reversed your reads, and all at the last minute, because of what other people are doing at the last minute. I just can't help but see all this as hypocrisy. You're starting a new direction the day before deadline, because you say other people are starting in new directions at the last minute. How simply can I say it?

You've connected yourself to Fluff. You hopped onto the wagon. You tried to kill the wagon, you accused me of trying to distance myself from the wagon, and Elmo of going along with it. Then you said that Fluff was town because of this, and now you want to lynch Elmo and me. You've managed to completely reverse your position, and along the way you've been firing buckshot. It's a really obvious connection.

I get that you want to know about my vote. I do. You don't need to continue on like this.

[Lord Gurgi]

Hi. Just checking in before the deadline. Homecoming last night and SATs today and I'm really tired. LF isn't acting how I would expect. Goat just seems to have completely changed since a week ago.

Unvote

(Not hammering LF)

[Lord Gurgi]

I wasn't expecting the, "Oh, alright" thing, I was expecting maybe "Oh the humanity!" or perhaps "The scum did it!" or something with an exclamation mark.

[Lord Gurgi]

I don't think he'd act particularly differently as town or scum. I''m just saying that he's acting even more apathetic than anyone else about his lynch.

[Lord Gurgi]

Oh. Right. That takes some air out of things.

[Lord Gurgi]

That is awfully convenient. Incredibly so.

[Lord Gurgi]

I started on green and am still on green. One more Vanilla.

Why has no one said anything about Elmo as the night kill?

I think SpyreX claiming blue is townie, don't see any reason why scum would claim something like that.

[Lord Gurgi]

If he was greenscum, or even bluescum, there is more motivation to claim something other than blue, than there would be if he was bluetown. That makes it a town tell, if not very much so.

[Lord Gurgi]

When did TDC claim green? Of course, now that you point that out, he has every reason to claim green.

[Lord Gurgi]

If he was greenscum, or even bluescum, there is more motivation to claim something other than blue, than there would be if he was bluetown. That makes it a town tell, if not very much so.

Enlighten me. I don't see the downside of scum claiming blue, or why SpyreX as scum would have incentive to claim something else.

The propensity of scum is against sticking out.

[Lord Gurgi]

Oh.

Fifth blue is a bit weird. Don't you think? You said as much earlier, but you don't seem to think it's weird that HE is fifth blue, or that it has any impact. I don't understand how you can have both positions.

[Lord Gurgi]

Wow. We have plenty of time, no need to rush blindly. I don't suppose you would be willing to unvote, would you, SpyreX?

TDC, I thought you hadn't claimed yet. Saying "THIS IS WHAT THE SMART SCUM WOULD DO GUYS" is not a good idea if you hadn't. Sheesh.

[Lord Gurgi]

I might as well be a sheep and

Lock: Red

.

I skimmed Batt and Spyrex, and SpyreX is batnuts crazy for Batt's lynch day one and two, but then never says his name day three. Batt doesn't really seem to respond to the suspicion. Batt seems more town of the two, and actually has some consistency in his mentions of SpyreX.

If SpyreX and Batt are town, though, the scum group would have to be two of myself, DDD, and Goat plus TDC.

I just skimmed DDD, Goat, and TDC, there's nothing there that strongly leads me to think the three are partners. There's a lack of suspicion for a large period of time, but that's about it.

So if I had to pick, I'd say that the Spyrex-Batt group is more likely. I don't know who the third partner would be right now.

Goat: So, where do you stand on this? It doesn't look fantastic that you're laying out options, but not taking a real stance.

FL: Go townie go, opinions raaah. Please?

[Lord Gurgi]

Raaaaaah?

[Lord Gurgi]

Ah, I was expecting some amazing and elaborate case. Hoping might be more correct.

[Lord Gurgi]

[Lord Gurgi]

Goat: How strongly do you believe that, anyway, now that I have you here.

[Lord Gurgi]

Why would scum push a buddy at this point? Even if it's just one guy on the wagon, why?

[Lord Gurgi]

Vote: TDC

[Lord Gurgi]

I think this setup actually favours town. The only possible eventuality of locking floors is stopping kills and confirming townies. We would have won yesterday if our kill had gotten through.

[Lord Gurgi]

Well it's something I've noticed that I am always a day one bandwagon. I'm pretty much always on people's 'dar but like 4th or 5th suspect. I did have fun playing with you guys.

I got moved off green to yellow night one. Other than that, we didn't bother. I never even used my power.

Goat, Batt, would either of you have a problem with linking to the QT?

[Lord Gurgi]

Well we mostly didn't want to screw up a kill. I never used my power, so you can consider that this game would have been the same if I was vanilla. As long as we don't know where people are, the floor locking mechanic is basically a multiple-target gaoler that we can't kill.

[Lord Gurgi]

Switch two people's rooms. There was no real point in using it because we didn't know who was on what floor.

[Lord Gurgi]

For the record, I think that Batt and Goat are two of the better players on the site. They did a lot more to let us win that I did.

[Lord Gurgi]

Quicktopic. I would link to it now, but I don't know if they want to keep it private. I'm also interested to know PJ's thoughts.

[Lord Gurgi]

I was surprised I wasn't lynched this game.

[Lord Gurgi]

Quicktopic Thread

[Lord Gurgi]