Newbie 841 - Game over!

[Tororingu-chan]

Hi everyone~~!! ^__^
ee thread finally opened... really excited to be finally playing~~~

Vote: Mafia_failure

because he's definitely mafia. It says so in his name!! >_<

[Tororingu-chan]

First vote was ninja'd from you about 10 seconds before you posted. ^____^
Fail indeed~ @_@

[Tororingu-chan]

I love wagon~~~ !!

Vote: havingfitz

[Tororingu-chan]

Unvotes aren't necessary~~ >_< It says so in the rules!
Wagons are great fun, but a quick reminder to you all that there are now three votes on me, so please don't accidentally quicklynch me.

@Deathnote: Aren't you bandwagoning on me now? ^_^;;

[Tororingu-chan]

I'm not bandwagoning~! I just love wagons~~~ <3
I'm glad to see you changed your mind about voting me so fast~~ o_O;;

[Tororingu-chan]

You don't think it's a wagon unless you explicitly say it's a wagon? ^_^; So you weren't on a bandwagon, right~~

[Tororingu-chan]

EBWOP:

I'm not bandwagoning~! I just love wagons~~~ <3

ehehe I just realised that didn't make a lot of sense~ @_@;; Hahaha xD

[Tororingu-chan]

Deathnote, are you saying that your vote for me wasn't a random vote then?? @_@;; You voted me for bandwagoning?? From the tone, I thought it was jokey/random and you just liked wagons as much as I did~~~ xD

Whether your vote was random or not, you sure changed your mind about it fast. ^__^;; I was just reminding everyone to pay attention to the number on votes on people. L-2 isn't close to a lynch yet...

Vote: DeathNote

See? No problem~~~ ^_^

*Was the vote for me a random vote or not?
*What kind of slips do you think scum can give in the random voting stage??

Answer seriously, because my vote isn't random! ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

@PaltryExcuse: I've had experience with this game before~~

It's fun!! d(^o^)b

[Tororingu-chan]

@OMGLyncher: Ermm... >_< I don't think there's any reason at the moment to believe that just because we're arguing, one is us is mafia and the other one is scum.... arguments are commonplace in this game and you can't draw any conclusions on alignment from these disagreements... @_@;;

*What do you believe I did that deserved a FoS? >_<;;;

[Tororingu-chan]

It was merely a demonstration that bandwagoning should not be done. I suppose I should have FOS you instead but voting just seems to have so much more of an impact.

On the contrary, wagoning in the RVS is GREAT~~~!! It gets the ball rolling much faster! ^___^

Reasoning for voting DeathNote:

*I didn't like how he unvoted me the moment I told him to

Yeah, that's it.... strong argument? No, but what do you expect from page 2~
It was a more of a pressure vote than anything, but you know, pressure votes kind of lose their point if you tell everyone it's just a pressure vote... >_<;;

For now DeathNote's responses seem adequate, so I'll

unvote

. ^_^ I'd like to mention that L-2 isn't really close to a lynch -- you'd need both scum to jump on the wagon (not the cleverest of scum strategies) or two really clueless townies~~ I've actually seen the latter before and someone was quicklynched page one~! Town lost that game~

On FoS's

A wussy way of spreading suspicions around without actually voting~~~~ v_v I don't like them and I won't use them.... I think people should put their money where they mouth is and VOTE if they find people so freaking suspicious!!!! (too bad we only have one vote, right? ^_^)

In the case of OMGLyncher, my initial instinct is to attribute his compulsive FoSing to newbie error... I don't think he realises how heavy-handed a FoS is~! OMGLyncher, it's okay to voice your suspicious, but a FoS is serious business...!! O_O

@Pablo: Are you going to vote me for smiling?? ^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^
ehehehe sorry, but that's just the way I post~~

[Tororingu-chan]

@MiteyMouse:
It's hard to say how many games I've played exactly~ @_@;
A long time ago, I've played on another (now defunct) website, and several more on this one, but I often replace in so there are lots of half-games... >_<;; Not on this account though, since I obsessive-compulsively create new ones every now and then. ^_^;;

You can call me T-chan or whatever you like~

@Deathnote:
I like playing an NK-immune, investigation-immune, everything-immune scum-aligned cultist copvig. Because I like being omnipotent of course~ Yeah~!!!

If you wanted a serious answer, town because I find scumhunting more enjoyable than trying to stay alive~ ^_^

*******

Questions:

@Mafia_failure:

I also find people who FoS suspicious unless they have two people to choose which in this case is what OMGLyncher did.

Did you or did you not find OMGLyncher's FoS's suspicious? o_O Why would it be less scummy if there are "two people to choose from"...? @_@;; I'm a little confused by your reasoning..... >_<

@OMGLyncher:

The reason I chose to FoS rather than vote was because my suspicion was due to the early accusations of bandwagoning: voting for either party worsens the situation for the town...

How would voting for either party (by that I assume you meant DeathNote and me, right?) worsen the situation for town??

...and just drags me into the argument.

Do you think it's a good idea for you to stay out of arguments? ._.

@havingfitz:

This is my 2nd game ever. Talked into trying Mafia by my son (who is somewhat obssessed by it).

What is your impression of your son's taste in games??? xD

[Tororingu-chan]

@Mafia_failure:

I also find people who FoS suspicious unless they have two people to choose which in this case is what OMGLyncher did.

Did you or did you not find OMGLyncher's FoS's suspicious? o_O Why would it be less scummy if there are "two people to choose from"...? @_@;; I'm a little confused by your reasoning..... >_<

[Tororingu-chan]

Ahh~~~ I get it now~! ^_^;

Hmm....... but something just occurred to me.

More questions:

@OMGLyncher:

OMGUS VOTE: Pablo

for misinterpreting my name: Lynching is townie! Even worse you linked me to your fail!

FoS Deathnote

for not having the conviction to stay with his random vote: Could be that he's mafia trying to appear neutral

Your Pablo vote is a random OMGUS vote, which means that you really aren't suspicious of him at all..... Then you FoS DeathNote, which means that you are suspicious of him~~~ >_<;; Why didn't you just vote DeathNote if you were suspicious of him?? @_@

[Tororingu-chan]

It isn't scummy to unvote a random vote~~ ^_^; random votes serve no purpose other than to start discussion~~ and I think we are out of the random phase, so there's no harm in removing votes that have no reasoning behind them!

[Tororingu-chan]

Does anti-scummy mean .... not scummy? o_O;;;;

[Tororingu-chan]

And what was that~? ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

I am still waiting for answers from OMGLyncher from questions in post 48 and post 51~~~ >_<;; Please come back, OMGLyncher~~~

I will present my suspicions when I think I have something more concrete... ^_^; Please be a bit patient, I am a slow player~~ >_<
I encourage everyone else to do a little scumhunting as well. Of course there are lots of ways you can do this (the IC should know a lot more!!), but you can start by directing questions to the person you are suspicious of, asking about anything you found fishy~~
Other people like to get aggressive and put people in the hot seat, and observing how they react under pressure!

Doing this is pro-town in lots of ways~! Not only are you looking for scum, but you get out there and post a lot more! By scumhunting, you can get reads off other people, but you also let people get reads off you~!! At the moment I'm having trouble with you guys because all you people are essentially saying is "hm, I'm a little bit suspicious of so-and-so, but just a bit." The game is not going to go anywhere if everyone just keeps saying this~~!!! Let's actively look for scum together!!! d(^u^)b

On the IC:

You can trust the IC when it comes to questions on technical gameplay and common logical steps, but otherwise he is just another player in the game, same as the rest of us~~~

[Tororingu-chan]

Otherwise, I'm just here to win the game

for the town

like (most of) the rest of you.

ehehehe, people sure do like waving little "hi, I'm townie!" flags around here~ ^_^;; I never thought it was beneficial for any player, scum or town, to claim a town-alignment... v_v;; You prove your townie-ness by your play, not by saying that you are one~~

Logically speaking, there is no way I can call that kind of thing a scumtell, but it definitely leaves me with a bad feeling~ >_<;;

Anywayzz, I do look forward to your scumhunting~~~

[Tororingu-chan]

Eh... Pablo's last post, which went along the lines of:
"Hey you townies, you can't trust me just because I'm the IC, I'm only here to win the game

for the town.

" strikes me as a very odd and contradictory sort of comment to me.... o_O;; Is it just me???

What were you thinking when you wrote that, Pablo?? @_@;;;

[Tororingu-chan]

Wow grammar mauled~ ;_;

[Tororingu-chan]

Hmm... maybe it's just that I've never seen an IC do that... >_<;; I maintain that it doesn't help anyone to tell people your alignment because we have no way of verifying it. v_v;;

Earlier on you mentioned that you thought my posting style was kinda scumlike, and likewise I feel the same way~~~ ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

I don't disagree with that analysis~ would like responses from OMGLyncher please~~ ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

Yay~!! I'm so happy that activity seems to have picked up~!

@OMGLyncher:

I didn't want to vote because It looked like you and deathnote were both on L-2 at some point and if I'd voted...

But that is wrong... we were both at L-3 at the time you FoS'ed us. >_<;

Why did I stay in the background after that?

Oh?? I thought you were only being inactive... so you were lurking....??? @_@; That's not a good sign!!

And no, it is not a good idea for you to be inactive. We don't mind being confused, but we'd hate it if you just stayed in the background and did nothing~~~ now that would confuse us a lot if you were town because it's scum that like to lurk~~ >_<;;

Go ahead and flame, just steer clear from ad hominem arguments~~

Keep the noose around my neck for now: I need to earn my way out of this suspicion.

Vote: OMGLyncher

[Tororingu-chan]

@PaltryExcuse:

Everyone has different things that they consider scummy, but sorry, I have no intention of sharing mine~ >_<;

Who do you believe is trying to stay out of the limelight, and who do you believe is just quiet?

Well... OMGLyncher did admit to trying to stay out of the limelight.....

@ronnieroo:

T-Chan: Could be a powerful player, reasons stated in another post.

ehehe that's flattering xD;; But please don't be mistaken~ I'm only bumbling my way through this game like the rest of you~

[Tororingu-chan]

EBWOP:

What behaviour do you consider to be scummy?

Everyone has different things that they consider scummy, but sorry, I have no intention of sharing mine~ >_<;

I sure messed those quotes up....

[Tororingu-chan]

Agreed. Dead thread is dead~~~ ;_;

[Tororingu-chan]

I am disappointed.

[Tororingu-chan]

That's not my point~
I understand that people have things to do other than play this game~~ so initially, I didn't consider your lack of activity suspicious~~ ^_^;;
But when questioned by Pablo, you admitted to "staying in the background." And "staying in the background", those words, have the same meaning as "lurking".... >_<;;

It's not me who said that you lurked. It was you~ o_o;

Another thing I noticed....

Woah that is a scary number of questions (I guess I deserve them).

...

Keep the noose around my neck for now: I need to earn my way out of this suspicion.

In other words~~ my concerns are legitimate, and you seem to realise this! ^_^

If I had posted with what I first thought, thereby passing your criteria for activity, I would have posted stupidly and replaced your baseless accusations with legitimate concern.

But one post later, my accusations are baseless. Which is it??? @_@;;

[Tororingu-chan]

I'm happy with my vote for now~~ ^_^

@Pablo: People are watching you because you seem experienced, and that scares them... o_@;;

@havingfitz: I am looking forward to your analysis~!

[Tororingu-chan]

I don't think I have three suspects yet~ >_>;;
1. OMGLyncher
2. ??
3. ??

@havingfitz:
If you had to pick one person to lynch right now, who would it be?

[Tororingu-chan]

I don't understand what you're saying. Are you encouraging people to vote for anyone that even midly draws their attention? If not, what exactly do you mean by pile the votes on?

The game will go nowhere if people just sit here going "hmm, I don't know." >_< The vote is the townie's most powerful weapon, so you should use it~!!

Also, realise that if you do nothing now, OMGLyncher

will

be lynched at deadline.... if you truly do not believe he is scum, go find a better candidate for the lynch~! ^_^

Where is OMGLyncher anyway? Did he flake~?? =_=;;

[Tororingu-chan]

I think having OMGLyncher at L-2 for now is sufficient for pressure -- at this point I don't think I'm prepared to lynch him either~~ >_<;

I really want OMGLyncher to explain the weird contradiction he made earlier...

[Tororingu-chan]

Currently, he is the best option, and my preferred choice for a lynch~! However, I am not prepared to have the day end right now -- it is too early and I don't think there has been enough discussion~ I would prefer that OMGLyncher come back and defend himself first, at least.... >_<;;

I needed to say that because people were being encouraged to "pile votes on"...

[Tororingu-chan]

There is always the option to no lynch if we can't decide what to do for today.

Nononono~~ No Lynch is terrible~ It means we don't get to use our most powerful weapon, the lynch~ >_<;;

I think we really have to replace OMGLyncher.... Flaking under pressure, +1 scumminess~ >_>;

[Tororingu-chan]

Hmmm~~ I find it odd that havingfitz seems to think that OMGLyncher is guaranteed scum and would rather lynch him now rather than wait for a replacement~ >_<;

Yet at this point in time I would still prefer an OMGLyncher lynch.... havingfitz rushing into things only shows that havingfitz is impatient, not that he is scum... ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

Welcome replacements~~ ^_^

MM...nowhere do I make any reference to OMG being guaranteed scum.

We inferred that from your eagerness to lynch him before his replacement even showed up... @_@; It just seems really hasty to me!!

See what I find funny about HF thinking that Ray/OMG is guaranteed Scum is that it smels of PIS (perfect infrmation syndrome). What I find funnier is that you point this out and then defend him T-Chan.

I noticed it, and it was odd, but at this point in time I don't consider him scummier than OMGLyncher~~ ^_^ So far, I'm willing to accept his explanation that he's just really impatient, since I can see how it's possible to be exasperated at the rate this game is (was) moving.. @_@;;

It's something to keep in mind, but not worth voting for yet imo~ ^_^;

[Tororingu-chan]

So T-Chan, do you see how it could look like you are defending H-Fitz?

Huh~? I

am

defending havingfitz because I don't think he's scum. I never said I wasn't... I don't approve of lynching him based on his impatience alone~ ^_^

I do not approve of the use of the newbie card as a defense of any scummy behavior. I personally believe it shouldn't be used at all, but, if you intend to use it, have some criteria so it can't just be used generally or selectively. Keep a single standard for it or don't use it at all.

I hate the newbie card as much as you do, but keep in mind that this is a newbie game~ =_=;; If we didn't allow it, we'd be lynching newbies all the time.. @_@;

Also, I find it funny how you chose to give a LoS rather than defending yourself at L-1. ^_^;; You should try defending yourself...

One of the weirdest things about OMGLyncher (I found) was hisinconsistency when it came to votes on him.... o_O; At first, he seemed to believe that the suspicion on him was warranted -- but a post later, suddenly I'm a big bad meanie and everything I said is a "baseless accusation"~ TT_TT Then he disappears... What do you think about that, RayFrost?

I'm a pro-town role. Saying the actual role would give scum fewer people to try and find the potential PRs in, so that's all you get from me

Ahh, why so coy? ^u^;



******


I love how I am high on the scum list for random inexplicable reasons!! ^____^

[Tororingu-chan]

1. You are hardly "high" on it. You are barely scummy at all >.> Did you read my explanation of the positions?

ehehe no~ ^_^ I was referring to the thread as a whole.... it seems people suspect me, but they aren't sure why they do. o_O;;
I think it's because of ^_^_^_^_^_^

Eh, that's why I said "keep a single standard for it or don't use it at all" as my opinion on it. Either you use it equally across the board or not at all.

It's hard to have a single standard... everyone interprets plays differently... @_@;; But let's try not to make newbie mistakes at all!! d(^_^)b

Imo, his play would be classified as dumb play, but not necessarily scummy play. Some individuals are tentative by nature, so they are unlikely to push their ideas when there is anything even somewhat aggressive toward them. Then some experience mood swings that lead them to be aggressive toward their attackers and then they slip away again after the heat of the moment in a mix of embarrassment and self-doubt, etc, etc.

Mood swings? I guess I couldn't really expect any better than that... @_@;
I wish OMGLyncher were still here...

[Tororingu-chan]

I mean, I wish the flaker were still active... ^_^;
You can try to answer for him as best as you can, but it's not the same... replacements really suck... TT_TT

Gut is a funny thing, but I usually don't trust it @_@;

[Tororingu-chan]

NoOooO0)sdsad~~!! I didn't mean you suck~ T^T
I'm sure we would have gotten along just fine if you weren't a replacement... if only we had met each other under difference circumstances... >_<;;

BUT WE CAN'T CHANGE THE PAST

[Tororingu-chan]

T-Chan, you defend H-Fitz and them me...why?

I'm not sure why you're still asking me... @_@;; I said I defend people who I do not believe to be scum... is there something that's not clear??

I don't recall defending you, however... >_<

[Tororingu-chan]

magical kangaRoo - buddying up to OMGl, very poor defense constituting "he's a newbie!" I don't approve of the defense, and it seems like an attempt to seem pro-town when OMGl flips town and, thus, avoid suspicion. This is supported by the fact the kangaRoo has not made even a moderately decent defense of him, and the defense made is half assed.

Just checking on something...... you are suspicious of RonnieRoo because she defended OMGLyncher (you), who is town?? o_O;;

When did it start being scummy to defend town?? x_x;

[Tororingu-chan]

EBWOP: To clarify, "town according to you". Sorry for any confusion~ ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

@_@ Oh the suspense...

[Tororingu-chan]

Oh, I'm well aware of what he

meant

to say~~ >_>;; I'm just saying that that's a dreadful and WIFOMy argument, much as I hate using that word... >_<;;

To clarify, everyone's first instinct is that defending a townie is a town thing to do. However, RayFrost flips that around and says it's scummy because it's a way of trying to

look

townie... >_>;; You can't really tell which it is, so it isn't indicative of either scum or town...

RayFrost seems to have had some experience, so I can't imagine him as a VT and then trying to paint his defending suspicious...?? @_@;;

Anyway, that's also why I am bewildered by Miteymouse accusing me of defending havingfitz... =_=; I am defending him, so what? I don't think he's scum and I would much rather see RayFrost lynched...

[Tororingu-chan]

EBWOP: "defending" should be "defenders" ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

Hmm~ gonna reread~ ^_^;

[Tororingu-chan]

Hi everyone~ sorry about that, I've had a lot of work to do recently~ >_<;;

ABR claimed you were tunnel-visioned towards OMG, I never saw a response to that claim. What do you think of that assessment?

Yes, I was probably tunnel-visioning a little... @_@; I thought he was miles scummier than anyone else, so I tried to get him lynched..

I'll post more later, but currently, my top suspect is DeathNote~! ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

Those last three posts weren't complete enough for you~? O_O

[Tororingu-chan]

Don't worry, T-chan thought it was funny! xD

I've been watching both havingfitz and Pablo going at each other's throats, and I don't think I have any reason to believe either are scum.... let's try not to let them eclipse any other player and make it seem as if we all have to vote for either one or the other! ^_^;

Where's DeathNote?

[Tororingu-chan]

T-chan is back~!
Now, I mentioned earlier that I found DeathNote most suspicious, but Pablo and havingfitz were making so much noise that I guess nobody noticed~ ^_^;

I think it's time for me to justify myself~!!

On D1, five of us thought OMGLyncher/Rayfrost was the scummiest scum ever and lynched him. Unfortunately, we were fools and OMGLyncher was actually town! T_T; I looked back on the voters to see if any of them seemed fake or unjustified...
Let's take a look at DeathNote~!

post 97

@OMGLyncher- Lets see...
Contradiction of posts- check
Active Lurking- check
Admitted to being a good choice for lynch atm- check

Hmm, okay, so he finds OMGLyncher suspicious.... the post is nothing more than a regurgitation of previous arguments, but never mind! ^_^

post 112

I thought I voted... Guess not

Vote: OMGLyncher

OMGLyncher is SO scummy that he gets a vote.

post 174

Yes [RayFrost] still has the same role but OMG didn't give us anything to go off of for serious votes. He was simply the best option since he lacked the ability to defend himself.

Unvote

Now it seems that OMGLyncher wasn't actually scummy at all, and he was only voting him because

he couldn't defend himself.

(??)

post 210

What? I was defending [RayFrost] to give them a chance to respond so they wouldn't get lynched right off for what appeared to be a nooby mistake.

OMGLyncher was only making a nooby mistake, now? o_O;

But in the end, DeathNote voted for, and ultimately ended up lynching a player who he clearly didn't believe to be scum!!

I'd like to know what kind of town play this is, but I'm inclined to believe that it's probably a scum play! ^_^


******************************

Supporting the "DeathNote is a HoRrIbLE ScUM" theory is! ^_^

1) He exhibits, to almost textbook perfection, the art of active lurking. T_T;; I challenge you to find some meaningful contribution in any of his posts so far... go on... >_>;;

2) He has wishy-washy voting patterns. On two occasions, he votes and then removes his vote (or vice versa) as soon as he is told... here and here.

Ya well.... ^_^ Here goes~!!

Vote: DeathNote

[Tororingu-chan]

T-chan will be most displeased if he decides to only drop out of this game but not any of the other trillion games he's currently playing. =_=;

For some of us, this is the only game we're in!

[Tororingu-chan]

You people and your western holidays~~ ^_^;
We only get mid-autumn festival!

[Tororingu-chan]

Who do you find more suspicious at the moment? Pablo or DeathNote? ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

What ...

[Tororingu-chan]

Life got in the way? Well, apparently it didn't get in the way for his other games.... =_=;


Note: GMT+8

[Tororingu-chan]

So, um... is DeathNote going to be replaced?? @_@; I fear I won't have very much to add until then. T_T; Why is it all the people I think are scummy vanish/go off to mod another game?

By the way... I'd like to mention that I don't really like PBPAs... >_<;
It feels like targets are being painted on our backs for NKs! Usually, I think it's sufficient to post your top suspects! ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

PBPA stands for "Player by player analysis".... it's basically where you post your thoughts on every single player on the game! ^_^ It's good to express your suspicions, but I don't feel that there is much value in saying who you

don't

think is likely to be town.

Nor do I feel that knowing that he was indeed town adds any more value to his opinion... this is a game of deception, and people can easily be mistaken! ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

EBWOP: I meant "who you don't think is likely to be scum"

[Tororingu-chan]

I never said that providing opinions is a bad thing, but I still don't think pointing out your "top townies" is a good thing... T_T;;

It doesn't help town in the least!

[Tororingu-chan]

Nothing in particular at the moment, just get up-to-date and post your thoughts! ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

Hi, thanks for replying, almightybob! ^_^ Here are my concerns about your most recent post~

Ahh, I've reread my post and I see I've been pretty ambiguous. I meant to say exactly what you just said... thanks for clarifying! Let me try one more time~!

[RayFrost] was simply the best option since he lacked the ability to defend himself.

What I intended to say (I was frightfully unclear... sorry!! >_<;;) is that DeathNote seems to think that OMGLyncher merely lacks the ability, or skill to defend himself, but he isn't scummy, as you pointed out. Another post after that seems to reflect that attitude:

What? I was defending [RayFrost] to give them a chance to respond so they wouldn't get lynched right off for what appeared to be a nooby mistake.

Here, he remarks that OMGLyncher was making "nooby mistakes", not that he was scum! @_@;

In fact, he says outright that OMGLyncher didn't do anything that was really scummy:

...OMG didn't give us anything to go off of for serious votes.

I personally don't think RayFrost's play was really an issue, and neither did DeathNote, seeing as he completely failed to point out anything that was scummy about him. I lynched him based on his predecessor's actions alone... but DeathNote didn't think OMGLyncher was scummy!!

The point I'm trying to make is:

DeathNote did not find anything scummy about OMGLyncher/RayFrost, but despite that, voted and lynched him.

And that's pretty scummy... isn't it?? >_<;;

If there are any questions or if I've gotten anything wrong, please feel free to correct me~~

[Tororingu-chan]

Hi, thanks for the quick reply! ^_^ I wish everyone were as pleasant as you are!

I don't disagree with your analysis of the first and second quotes, I'm glad we could come to an agreement there~!! ^u^

However, it's the third and last quote that worries me the most, and is the only one you cannot explain. Here it is again, because it's such a great line~! ^_^

post 174

...OMG didn't give us anything to go off of for serious votes.

This statement effectively means that any prior suspicions he had on OMGLyncher (all pre-174 posts) were not "serious", and can probably be disregarded for the sake of the argument. I also feel that there's reason to believe that his suspicions post-174 were falsified -- note that every time he mentions something about RayFrost/OMGLyncher being scum, it's always a vague assertion with no explanation.... =_=;

Even if you did take him at his word that he

did

think OMGLyncher/RayFrost was suspect, that leaves us with a bizarre situation: he went from believing that there was nothing "serious" about the wagon on OMGLyncher to voting and waiting for the hammer in 2 posts!! O_O;;

In these two posts between his vote and unvote, there is a post by PaltryExcuse (post 175)that's only a rehash of existing arguments, and a statement by RayFrost himself (post 176) that he does not approve of the use of the newbie excuse.

What do you think in these two posts changed his mind so quickly and entirely?? >_<;; I don't know, but I can't see anything~~~

[Tororingu-chan]

What is your take on this post, almightybob? ^_^

...OMG didn't give us anything to go off of for serious votes.

[Tororingu-chan]

I'm sorry I have to keep repeating it, but I wouldn't have to if you just addressed it.... o_O;;
Unless your response is still "I don't know"?? You can claim he thought OMGLyncher was obvscum all you like, but the fact of the matter remains is that DeathNote said that he didn't find anything seriously scummy about OMGLyncher, then abruptly changed his mind and voted him~! Honestly, you're "inferring" his thoughts from all these random posts and ignoring what he outright said... that's just strange. >_<;

I think I've made it pretty clear that I found that post key, (the others can be interpreted several ways...), but I don't like how you keep ignoring or avoiding it..... Maybe I should make my text bigger? ^_^

I'm too lazy to go back and reread right now but iirc DeathNote's posts go something like this:

1) He follow the crowd and claims that OMGLyncher is his one and only suspect.
2)

He says that there is nothing "serious" in OMGLyncher to vote for.

3) People correct him and tell him, yes, there is.
4) He follows the crowd again and says oh right, there is. I think he only remarks that he may be noobscum after everyone else says that may be the case.

My vote is staying where is! >_<;

I'll post in more detail later on when I'm not sleepy! ^_^


**********

ON ABR:

Seems like everyone is commenting on that last post! I guess I'm the only one who liked it~~~ ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

Just spotted this:

Another thing I noticed....

Woah that is a scary number of questions (I guess I deserve them).

...

Keep the noose around my neck for now: I need to earn my way out of this suspicion.

In other words~~ my concerns are legitimate, and you seem to realise this! ^_^

I'm happy with my vote for now~~ ^_^

So when OMGL concedes that his accuser's concerns are legitimate and offers no defence, you're happy with your vote on him.

Please try not to quote half of it... the point of that post was the second half! ^_^

If I had posted with what I first thought, thereby passing your criteria for activity, I would have posted stupidly and replaced your baseless accusations with legitimate concern.

But one post later, my accusations are baseless. Which is it??? @_@;;

I was pointing out a contradiction... what are you trying to make me look like?? @_@;

As for ABR's post, I like it because I do! Why not? It's provoked a number of humourous reactions~ ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

Actually, almightybob, after replacing in, what are your thoughts on each player? ^_^ I don't like PBPA in general, but I think it's good manners and helpful if you just entered the game!

On the DN case:
Wow... he does seem serious doesn't he! I wonder why he would say there's nothing serious then to vote for, then! ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

I didn't vote OMGLyncher because he didn't defend himself? @_@?

[Tororingu-chan]

Anyway almightybob, I'm looking forward to your PBPA! ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

T-chan has a fun exercise for everyone! ^_^
Reread the thread and replace every one of DeathNote's posts with "I agree". I think it will still be in context!

[Tororingu-chan]

T-chan highly approves! d(^_^)b

[Tororingu-chan]

ehehehe~ Haha! ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

I find ABR's posts hilarious! We don't have to be serious all the time, right~? ^_^ Let's play this game and have fun while doing it~!

Anyway, just because someone doesn't play exactly the same way you do does not necessarily mean they are scum... just thought you should remember that. v_v;;

[Tororingu-chan]

Oh, I'd also really like to know what ronnieroo thinks about all this~ ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

almightybob, PBPA please! ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

@Pablo: Everything is forgiven~! I hope you have a good day today! ^u^

I am very curious to know where you stand on the Fitz issue. You took flak from Mitey on Day 1 about your defense of Fitz as probable townie. Has your opinion changed on him? And if so how, and when?

I don't think havingfitz is scum~ My position has not changed!

On ABR:

What is scummy for OMGLyncher may not be necessarily be scummy for another player. I thought it was obvious (apparently not), but you can't just say "ah, you lurked. Die scum!"~~ that would make the game too easy, no? ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

Oh, it's not tomorrow for you yet? It's already tomorrow for me! ^_^ I look forward to it~

Oh, I know why you're annoyed~ You're annoyed because you're scum! lol.

[Tororingu-chan]

DeathNote had a funny hat too, but his funny hat seems a little odd to me. It depends on who is wearing the funny hat, and why I think they're wearing it!

[Tororingu-chan]

@almightybob: hah... you're right, I may be tunnelling a little bit! ^_^;
I promise to post a PBPA right after you post yours!

[Tororingu-chan]

Oh, and... yeah... about ABR's "lurking"... I'd like everyone to consider what the purpose of lurking is, and what the difference between ABR and OMGLyncher is~ ^_^;

Trying to use a formula to find scum (OH! HE LURKED! +6.3 scum points!!) will fail... T_T; Look at things in context, please. Also, even though I've mentioned this before, but please, please remember that providing well-thought out, carefully argued cases against people is the not the

only

way to find scum. v_v;

You may disagree, but... @_@;

[Tororingu-chan]

Sweet! Looks good to me! As promised, my PBPA~! ^_^

Scum

almightybob

dunno

ABR
Pablo
ronnieroo
fitz
PaltryExcuse

Cop

T-chan

Yeah... I claim cop with a guilty on DeathNote/almightybob. ^_^
Die scum!

Re-vote: almightybob

[Tororingu-chan]

Sorry about this, almightybob~ feels like I've wasted your time somewhat... ^_^;;
Die die die die die~

[Tororingu-chan]

Everyone should be blaming DeathNote. T_T;;

Unvote: almightybob
Vote: DeathNote

[Tororingu-chan]

Hmmm. I would like to see what everyone else things before revealing my investigation. ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

EBWOP: I obviously mean "thinks". >_>;

[Tororingu-chan]

Hahahahaaha~~~ xD
Come on PE, let's play guess the scum! ^_^ Never mind studying, just take a guess!

[Tororingu-chan]

Everyone take a guess~ who's the scum?
I'll reveal tomorrow~~

[Tororingu-chan]

My, my... would havingfitz like a guess?? ehehehe~ xD

[Tororingu-chan]

Sorry about that everyone, I had some connection problems~~ ._.;;;
Well, I was mostly fishing for reactions, but I have an innocent on Starbuck (ronnieroo)! ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

What do I think? ^_^
Hmmm... I'm starting to think you may be scum~ xD

[Tororingu-chan]

More later, 4am, T-chan is tired... x_x

[Tororingu-chan]

I am trying very hard to tell whether Pablo is scum or

really thinks like that.

@_@; Frankly, that's a horrible case against PE. I'm not convinced at all~ T_T; You are seriously trying to paint him as scummy for being on a townie lynch??

I was on a townie lynch! I

led

the townie lynch! Am I suspicious then?? >_<;;

Not to mention, you didn't even

comment

on the case against DN (which is worse than "dismissing" it, which PE didn't really), and actually, your case against him is a lot weaker than his. Who's championing weak cases now? @_@;;

Points A, B, and C... all failed~ ^_^

Luckily, unlike you, I don't vote people simply because they make bad cases. I like to consider that hey, maybe they just play that way... ^_^; That doesn't make them scum then.

I have school now, so I'll read up on your completed games and come to a conclusion later! d(^u^)b

[Tororingu-chan]

Oh just FYI, I'm primarily looking at D2 DeathNote/almightybob interactions~
I have:

1) Pablo, who didn't even comment on the case! o_o
2) Havingfitz, who outright stated he didn't believe that DN was scum....
3) PaltryExcuse, halfheartedly agreed but never took a strong stance anywhere, until now.

[Tororingu-chan]

But it helps and is MUCH more likely that some people on the wagon are scum. How long have you been playing Mafia (the game)? Are we in some magical game where scum does NOT lynch town?!

I think there's something that you're not quite getting... =_=;;
1) Scum lynch town. Well, there's a high probability of it. Sure, you seem to have gotten that down!
2) Town lynch town. Because they don't know any better. OK, that seems to be fine too~ ^_^ In fact, since there's more town than scum, we are certain that some of the people on the mislynch are town.
3) Since both town and scum lynch town, you can't say that because someone lynched town, they are scum. Because town do that too. =_=; Conversely, you can't say "AHA, look at how pro-town I am for NOT being on the mislynch!!" (as you seem to be doing)

Seriously, that's like saying... well, sheep are woolly, and a wolf in sheepskin is also woolly! You are woolly, therefore you are a wolf!!! @_@;; It makes no sense!

There's more I can add, but later~ ^_^;; No time now!
Come to think about it, I had a pro-town read on Pablo the whole game because he backed off on fitz, which I considered a very pro-town move. On second thought, it's really not... all he did was make peace with him, which is actually a little scummy.

Look at it from my point of view: If I am not lynched then the town is guaranteed a win. Period.

I would probably lynch you based on this statement alone... T_T; As long as you stay alive, you win, huh.... right~ >_>;;

Hey, why don't we come to a deal~ Figure out your top suspect, and we lynch you, and then him, in that order. Sound good to you~? ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

Also WHY is not commenting (being distracted my more immedeate people attacking me) more scummy than SAYING YOU DON'T THINK SCUM IS... SCUM!

Distracted by who? At that point, the whole "fitz vs. u" had died down~ I posted my first post against DeathNote then. IIRC you were busy calling ABR anti-town at that point~ ^_^;

I think not calling attention to/ignoring a case on a scumbuddy is scummier than saying that you outright disbelieve it...

Oh, and at what point did you start finding PE more scummy that fitz? Just curious~

[Tororingu-chan]

I disagree with the fact that you disagree! ^_^ Gosh, I think it's stupid for scum to call any attention to their scumbuddy (whether they agree or not with the arguments put forth) so naturally that makes you scummy for me! @_@;

Also, can't believe you just tried to use Occam's razor. =_=

I don't think you're dense enough to really believe the stuff you're proposing, so I'd have to say I think you're scum! ^_^ I have a better opinion of you than that!

[Tororingu-chan]

FYI I have no intention of explaining anything unless asked by someone who is not Pablo~ I really don't think I need to! ^_^;

[Tororingu-chan]

this? ^_^ Biggest blowup I found so far, but I haven't read everything so I may have missed something. Feel free to point out some examples where you blow up as town! xD

Uh oh, it looks like I've offended you! @_@;;
I'm sorry I didn't realise you were serious! I thought you were kidding or something. ^_^

But... don't you think that you're simplifying things way too much? =_=; "Scum will always be trying to mislynch"? Do you think that they

have

to be on the wagon of a self-destructing townie? Why not try to avoid suspicion if mislynch is going to happen anyway? @_@;;

Even if you're town and you find your argument definitely convincing because there are two uncomfirmed players (assuming you are town), realise that for me, there are three uncomfirmed players... so it will take more than a gross oversimplication of the game to convince me. T_T;; Even if the almighty IC says so, I still don't see any reason for both scum to be on this particular mislynch of OMG. I just don't see any need for BOTH of them to do it~~ >_>;;

Anyway, I tend to highly distrust wagon analyses because they are way too easy to manipulate (by scum). They can just jump off the wagon of a townie lynch that is sure to go ahead and then say, "look, look, I didn't lynch a townie! That makes me townie!".... wait... that looks a bit familiar... @_@;;

I thought this was self-evident, but maybe it wasn't after all... @_@;; I was also lazy, so I didn't really feel like explaining. No hard feelings~! ^_^

To me, your argument looks like this:
1) One of PE and fitz are likely scum because they were on the OMGLyncher mislynch.
2) You are not scum because you WEREN'T on that lynch.
3) TRUST ME, I'M THE IC!!!!

[Tororingu-chan]

Incidentally, somehow I'm starting to get a town vibe from Pablo again~ >_>;
Somehow, I feel that a scum-Pablo probably wouldn't be comfortable trying to intimidate the rest of the newbie-town using his IC status. An IC winning that way would be abusing his status, no? ^_^;; Maybe he really is town just town and losing it!

Still, the fact remains that Pablo's argument remains utterly unconvincing. If he really is town, he already knows which two lynches to go for.... so it's easy to make statements like "scum must mislynch without fail" just because the other two happened to be on that wagon...v_v;

T-chan is sorry if she hurt Pablo's feelings~ >_<;;

[Tororingu-chan]

I'd really like the replacement to chime in before we do anything else~~ >_<;;
Thanks, VRK!

[Tororingu-chan]

Not gonna defend myself. @_o;

[Tororingu-chan]

Starbuck, I advise you stop wasting time with my posts~ =_=;

[Tororingu-chan]

Well, the setup could be a lie! O_O;

[Tororingu-chan]

I hate using mafiawiki terms, but fitz should try not to pull the "too-townie" argument~ >_<;

Anyway, looks like for now I am number one on Starbuck's scummeter. Looking forward to who number 2 is~~ ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

jlkkjladakla holy walls of text, Batman! @_@;;
Um... T-chan was sick for the past few days (and still has the sniffles now T_T), I'll catch up as soon as I can~ ^_^;;

[Tororingu-chan]

Wow, caught up! @_@
For the sake of not adding to the oodles of verbosity that have suddenly appeared in this game (of course that's a good thing in Mafia, hm?), I will try to keep it short. ^_^ Since I'll be paraphrasing, please feel free to correct me if I misinterpret anything~~

:arrow: I am not particularly convinced by the case on havingfitz... It's not easy to see when rereading, but when havingfitz dropped his weird L-1 on OMGLyncher the game had stalled -- iirc we were literally getting one post every three days or something! >_< I remember feeling very frustrated and impatient at that point, so I didn't find it a stretch to believe that fitz felt the same way~

:arrow: On the other hand, Starbuck has pointed out many times where havingfitz is just...

strange!

o_O Some of his posts are "off", like the PR-complaints. When I tried to failbluff at the beginning of the day, havingfitz definitely had the "strangest" reaction. This isn't something that I would lynch for, but it gives my gut funny feelings... but I will reconsider him.

:arrow: On the other hand, after deciding that havingfitz is her prime suspect, Starbuck sees every single thing that fitz posts as scummy.

I definitely think I caught you, and you are upset about it. Nice appeal to emotion though, it's a good try, but a failure.

I'm sure others got more emotional than havingfitz... @_@;;

:arrow: Going back to the D2 fitz vs Pablo... maybe it's just me, but why is hypocrisy a scumtell? o_O;; I don't get it. havingfitz made a pretty bad case against Pablo, but you don't lynch people for making bad cases, especially not in newbie games. =_=; Admittedly I paid the exchange less attention than I should have since I had a guilty on DeathNote and was planning to claim.

:arrow: I

still

don't like Pablo's statement that we should lynch everyone except him for a townie win. And I find the fact that he had almost no interactions with DeathNote/almightybob bizarre.... @_@;;

:arrow: And when it comes to "off" statements, Pablo's made plenty of his own. He likes waving the townie flag somewhat! ^_^;

:arrow: I'm giving a lot of thought to Pablo's "IC card" moment. Pulling the IC card in a newbie game isn't very nice anyway, but it's less mean if you're town and telling the truth than if you're scum and lying about it! ^_^ So I thought it was a pretty townie thing to do, but then he backpedalled when I pointed it out. ._.; I was tempted to just say "everyone let's just trust the IC because he said so, and lynch everyone but him!" Then it's either a win or a very funny loss! ^_^

:arrow: PaltryExcuse, I really hope you're town. O_O;

[Tororingu-chan]

Agreed (of course) and what is iirc?

iirc = if I recall correctly! ^_^ It's because I didn't want to go back and check to see exactly how inactive the game thread was, but I know that it was sloooooow~~~ >_>;;

What posts are you referring to and what did youfind strange about them? Just curious. And if I need to explain anything let me know.

The NK complaints etc. come off as strange... (as scum like to do such things!) you can't really explain it. It's only a feeling at this point... o_o;;

My case against Pablo was bad I thought it was good myself.

You did a good job proving that he was perhaps playing hypocritically and erratically, but how does that make him scum? o_O; Of course, atm I'm unsure about Pablo's alignment, but not because of your previous argument~ ^_^

******

I'd also like to note that I don't feel defensiveness is a scumtell at all, especially at this stage in the game. ~_~;;

[Tororingu-chan]

Ah, I guess that depends on opinion then~~ ^_^ I should think that anyone wouldn't want to die at this stage.... >_>;;

[Tororingu-chan]

Bad cases may be a scumtell elsewhere, but I really hesitate to use it as such in a newbie game when people are still learning the ropes... x_x;;

[Tororingu-chan]

The second quote was the first indication mention of meta, and it was being used as a possible defense. Am I misunderstanding something here?

You are right, I had no intention of of saying "I caught you, you horrible scum, so you are angry, ha-HA!!" ^_^;; I did and still do consider it a null-tell, but I felt I had to respond when Pablo felt the need to pre-emptively defend himself and say use it as a weird defense of sorts.... @_o;;;

Basically, my current stance in this game is: I don't think PaltryExcuse is scum. I'll go reread and get back to you people! ^_^

[Tororingu-chan]

I'd like to note that I still don't believe that "bad cases" are a reliable scumtell in newbie games... x_x;; Every player makes scumtells (unwittingly or... well, unwittingly, usually! ^_^) and you can construct a case around them regardless of alignment!

havingfitz

:arrow: He explicitly stated that he wasn't convinced by my case against DeathNote. I didn't find it that bad, because I think almightybob defended as well as he could have! ^_^

:arrow: His case against Pablo D2 wasn't that great. I'm more inclined to attribute that to inexperience than anything else... I've taken a look at his first game and he pretty much spend the entire time going "?????" before he got lynched! ._.

:arrow: His reactions seem a little faked sometimes, but that's not something I feel comfortable lynching for... since you can't really tell whether they're faked or not. @_@;;

:arrow: I'm not sure what I think about his final RayFrost hammer. I do feel that he has been pretty consistent.... I found RayFrost's answers pretty inadequate as well! On hindsight, you can easily say that the OMGLyncher case wasn't very good (it wasn't) but it's not so easy to see when you're actually in the moment. >_<;;

Pablo Molinero

:arrow: He totally ignored the case against DeathNote! O_O; He mentioned something about him disappearing, then proceeds to call ABR scummy.... To me, that seems like he's trying to draw attention away! Afterwards, he goes "I'm townie beause if I were scum I'd try to defend my scumbuddy."

:arrow: I do think that his D3 attempt against PaltryExcuse and havingfitz is pretty weak, even if I don't like to lynch people for that. (But hey, I can if you guys insist it is a scumtell...) He somehow gets it from somewhere that both scum HAD to be on the OMGLyncher wagon and therefore one of PE or fitz must be scum! o_O;; Mislynches are scum-driven? Sure, that's why DeathNote was on it... Afterwards, he goes "I'm townie because scum vote for townies."

PaltryExcuse

:arrow: I

really

hope he is town.

:arrow: He has probably stood out the least so far. He did stand up and make his own case D3 (which is probably the riskiest time for scum to stand out), so I can't really accuse him of fence-sitting... =_=;;

:arrow: I really,

really

hope he is town.

:arrow: I don't think (as Pablo mentioned) that he sort-of disagreed with my case on DeathNote. I think PE sort-of agreed... but didn't do much because almightybob defended correctly... then said he'd keep his eye on him after that. Probably the most town reaction from the three of you! ^_^;

[Tororingu-chan]

I forgot to add, that Pablo's case against PE seemed a bit forced to me because of stuff like this:

Oh… wow. Really. This genuinely surprised me. You’re calling more attention to a potential scumbuddy. Either epic bussing or a very townie indicator for Paltry.

I mean, I read it as a towntell... no, MAYBE IT'S EPIC BUSSING!! O_O; (and later he brings up Occam's razor to defend himself/attack PE some more, but not for this !_!)

That's why it looks to me that he decided on a target before-hand and just went for it instead of weighing the scumtells and towntells to decide... >_<;;

[Tororingu-chan]

So you thought he was scum was because he thought you were scum? @_@;;

[Tororingu-chan]

Just checking... but you're still standing by your previous points that:
A) (Both?) Mafia are very likely to vote for townies, and it applies in this situation.
B) People who suspect are likely Mafia.
C) People who make bad cases are likely Mafia.

Sorry if I'm repeating myself, but I need to make sure I got this straight~ @_@;;

[Tororingu-chan]

EBWOP: *suspect you

[Tororingu-chan]

@havingfitz: Oops, were you NK'd that game? sorry, I don't really remember. ^_^;; All I know is that you were still figuring things out and you played much less aggressively!

[Tororingu-chan]

I'm still not convinced that havingfitz is scummier than Pablo.... @_@;;

Vote: Pablo Molinero