Mini 852- Crayola Catastrophe Game Over (Post 1158)

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Snow_Bunny

The color red is the color of anger, already assigning a motive to you for killing Totally Awesom Dude. Obvscum.

[Nachomamma8]

*cough*

Vote: Snow_Bunny

blah blah blah, obvscum for being red, blah blah blah. My bad for messing up on the first post... >.>

[Nachomamma8]

You didn't post in colour! He's an spy! He's obviously the bad guy!

We say color here in Crayola-land... You would know that if you weren't an assassin, sent to kill us all! I stand behind my initial vote.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm not trying to read yellow on white this whole game.

Vote: GreenDude

[/b]

FoS: Chibo

for hypocrisy. Your color is just as hard to read as GreenDude's... No walls of text from you, please?

[Nachomamma8]

Will be V/LA for the next three days, but I'll post here on Saturday.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote: SnowBunny

We're out of the RVS now.

Anyways, here's a question to everyone who voted charter: Why did you vote for him? I still have no idea why his lynching was turned into a policy lynch based solely on his playing style.

Chibo, why did you seem so ready to vote purely for Chamber's replacement? It seemed to me like you were trying to use the momentum of the bandwagon against him to carry the lynch to his replacement... If this isn't true, what pro-town motives did you have for viewing an "guilty until proven innocent" playstyle? How does that help the town at all?

Manzcar, why was defending Chamber scummy? Defending a player who has come under fire and has a bandwagon smashing into them is normally a pro-town action, for it prolongs the lynch and gives more discussion to the town.

Actual reads to come tomorrow, but I just got back from camp and Im too sleepy to post much else.

[Nachomamma8]

Zaz, to respond to your earlier question, I wrote in black.

[Nachomamma8]

My opinion on the bandwagon on semioldguy:

While I like the bandwagon in terms of the pressure it's giving, I can't say I'm a big fan of where the bandwagon's going. So far, the bandwagon on SoG has made everyone focus on his scumminess, leaving the rest of us in the dark. While I see mentions of what seems to be the general opinion right about now, I don't see it being a valid enough reason to put him at L-2, or even a valid enough reason to put my vote on him just yet.

The first vote he places on Zazie looks like a pressure to get him to be active, rather than an attempt to get a lynch. And as for his supposed "hypocrisy"... I view that as an attempt to avoid saying that it's simply a pressure vote; after all, that would entirely remove its potentcy. Notice how he hints this with the phrase "I am a pressure vote guy though...".

Also, I've been a big fan of semioldguy's aggressiveness; let's not forget who brought us out of the RVS, shall we? I'm getting a pro-town read from him simply because he doesn't seem afraid to mention what looks scummy, nor does he seem to tunnel on anyone; when he sees something scummy, he questions it.

As for who I actually find suspicious at this moment, that award falls to Budja. I'm not a big fan of his complete lack of questioning and scumhunting, and his little counting fiasco seemed to me like an attempt to push the Chamber bandwagon over the edge.

And because Im a big fan of encouragement, here's a

Vote: Budja

to help the explanations come faster.

[Nachomamma8]

That was just the very explanation I was looking for.

Unvote: Budja. Vote: Josh Lyman

That vote will not move until I see five posts from him.

That is a good point, I hadn't thought of that. However, it doesn't explain why semioldguy is still voting for Zazie and in fact pushing for his lynch for no good reason.

It seems to me that you have the two confused. SoG may still be voting for Zazie, but he definitely isn't fighting for the lynch. Right now, he seems to be defending himself, which I think he's doing a pretty good job of.

[Nachomamma8]

Hey, Nachomamma, that's one.

This is two.

Three more to go.

Care to make a more realistic case against me?

Sure.

You're being a wee bit overdefensive based on a single vote on you, and you're also assuming I'm making a case on you (in case you haven't gotten this yet, I'm not). I was simply voting to get you to give us more content.

Nacho, your "case" on Josh is pretty hypocritical. You're saying he hasn't posted, yet the only one who's posted less than you is Snow. Please, if you're going to vote for someone, make sure you're not committing the fault you accuse them of. Thank you.

Again, where have I been making a case? I just voted, and said the vote wouldn't move until I made five posts. I didn't make a case or accuse of a fault. It just seemed I hadn't seen him post in a while...

<snip>

That is a good point, I hadn't thought of that. However, it doesn't explain why semioldguy is still voting for Zazie and in fact pushing for his lynch for no good reason.

<snip>

Please elaborate on the part in which you say that that was the explanation you were looking for.

Why Josh and not somebody else?

SoG is going for my lynch.

I wanted an explanation for his action. An explanation is what I got.

Why Josh? I looked through and saw a minimal amount of content from Josh. Posts? Sure. Content? No.

And how do you know SoG is going for your lynch? You aren’t psychic, are you?

Dear SoG,

Can you please help me? When I thought I found the three scum in you, Pome and Manz, Nacho suddenly decided to act as a possible buddy of yours. Whom of the three is not your buddy?

Please respond asap

Zaz

You mind explaining why I'm acting as a scum buddy to SoG? Because I don't agree with a bandwagon that doesn't have a whole lot of thought put into it?

@SoG: Why are you voting for Pome when it seems like Zaz is your #1 suspect?

[Nachomamma8]

Not to me.
-You do tunnel
-You state that you only point out the scummy things of your top 2 suspects.
Making the last two statements invalid.

Surely you're not serious. You have been focused on ONE suspect this entire game, and you're saying someone else is tunneling? Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but the only scummy thing you actually pursued came from SoG.

Secondly, I fail how to see how the second bullet point is scummy. Your two major subjects are the two people who you have the most information on. So, in focusing on the two scummiest, you get a lot better read on someone, as opposed to flying all over the place and pouncing on scummy things about everyone. It doesn't mean your not noting it, but it does mean your keeping silent about it.

[Nachomamma8]

SoG, do you mind explaining why Pome is your second? Because right now, it seems fairly random to me.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote

as promised. But I still want more content.

@Snow Bunny:

1) To me, vote patterns (how much you vote) are null-tells. You can vote for one person because you find them the scummiest, or you can vote for multiple because you believe in pressure voting.

2) Did you read my bit on SoG's hypocrisy? If so, what do you think about it?

3) Not necessarily stretching. Pointing FoSes without votes down suggests a fear to have to explain a vote.

4) Self-preservation isn't scummy either. If you are a townie and are trying to avoid being lynched, defending yourself and starting a bandwagon against someone else is preventing a mislynch, which is pro-town.

[Nachomamma8]

Suspicions like what? Please reiterate.

[Nachomamma8]

No, that hammer was from you. And it was completely uncalled for. We just got a new replacement; thus, a new viewpoint on the SoG case. At least wait for the replacement to express his views before hammering :/

MOD: Does her vote count even though it lacked color?

I hope for the town's sake it doesn't. Because that was a very anti-townish thing you just did there, and I'd rather lynch you and hit a scum the first day instead of SoG.

Unvote

,

Vote: Snow_Bunny

[Nachomamma8]

<snip>
Budja steps in for Josh_Lyman and that, to me, is fairly telling. In my experience, scum are far more likely to step in for each other when the case is weak (which it is) than if they think it's strong: not pointa rguing with the inevitable, but there is ample incentive to try and move lowgrade pressure away from a scumbuddy, since lowgrade can pretty quickly become high grade and then can escalate out of control.

Chibosempai, budja, josh. Also a little bit of pome, nachomamma in the mix for gut reasons I can't really articulate.

Vote: ChiboSempai

Alright, I have to disagree with you there. Defending against a weak case is not a scumtell IMO. Townies defend against weak cases so they can shut down stupid bandwagons (like the one on chamber or SoG, for example) before they even begin, or to challenge it (in my opinion, true townies challenge EVERYTHING). Scum defend against said weak cases to protect their partner(s). In other words, I think that it's a nulltell because both sides have equal motive for doing so.

As for you gut reasons you can't articulate, why did you mention those? Mentioning suspicions without much merit or reason only give scum enough time to read the thread for things to frame you for...

[Nachomamma8]

The preceeding post was in color.

[Nachomamma8]

My question about the explanation from Budja, was mainly due to: "That was just the very explanation

I was looking for

."
Please elaborate on that.

Don't like your reason for voting Josh. You stated that he has posts, but no content. What do you ask from him: 5 posts. The right use of words would have been that you wouldn't move your vote until you would see content from him. Explain the choice of words you've used.
Also, I don't like how you're going for pressure votes.

Budja showed some good posts where it was shown that SoG was fighting for my lynch.

Dear SoG,

Can you please help me? When I thought I found the three scum in you, Pome and Manz, Nacho suddenly decided to act as a possible buddy of yours. Whom of the three is not your buddy?

Please respond asap

Zaz

You mind explaining why I'm acting as a scum buddy to SoG? Because I don't agree with a bandwagon that doesn't have a whole lot of thought put into it?

Looking at the opinion given at Post 257:
-You discuss his first vote against me. First of all, you're using your own impression of it. Eventhough SoG had already stated that it was for pressure.
Second, his second vote was the worst vote and you leave that one completely out of your analysis. And I ask once again, why is that?
-The other thing is shown in the paragraph about SoG's aggressiveness. Because as SoG stated before, he only focuses on his top two suspects or one and even then, he was mainly focusing on me at that time. Making the things you said there, untrue.

[/quote]

I was looking for an explanation. His explanation made sense to me. I dropped it. I wasn't looking for anything specific, if that's what you were thinking.

I said 5 posts because I wanted to see how he would respond. If he spammed 5 posts, then I'd know he was in a rush to get the votes off me. If he made 5 content-filled posts, I'd view him as more pro-town. If he make 5 semi-spammy posts, I'd count that as a point against him. In giving him more freedom in how to respond, I gain more information.

Why did I leave SoG's second vote out of my analysis... Because I didn't notice it, maybe? I am human, y'know.

SoG was mainly focusing on you, you were mainly focusing on him. Congratulations, we're back to square one. Oh, and you mentioned other people every now and then, but nothing even kind of significant.

[Nachomamma8]

No, that hammer was from you. And it was completely uncalled for. We just got a new replacement; thus, a new viewpoint on the SoG case. At least wait for the replacement to express his views before hammering :/

Gut is activated on this.

Why?

[Nachomamma8]

Why did I respond before SoG did? Because I saw something that I didn't agree with, so I responded to it. Missed that before in your wave of posts.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote

as promised. But I still want more content.

@Snow Bunny:

1) To me, vote patterns (how much you vote) are null-tells. You can vote for one person because you find them the scummiest, or you can vote for multiple because you believe in pressure voting.

2) Did you read my bit on SoG's hypocrisy? If so, what do you think about it?

3) Not necessarily stretching. Pointing FoSes without votes down suggests a fear to have to explain a vote.

4) Self-preservation isn't scummy either. If you are a townie and are trying to avoid being lynched, defending yourself and starting a bandwagon against someone else is preventing a mislynch, which is pro-town.

You voted Josh for more content, but here you unote him, eventhough you want more content? Yep, needs some explanations.

And why did you respond before SoG did?

But did I ask for posts or content? Hmm...

[Nachomamma8]

Guarantee is a bit strong of a word, isn't it? How can you guarantee anything in the game of mafia, Chibo?

[Nachomamma8]

So you would recommend to the town to lynch you immediately if Shanba turns up pro-town, right? If not, why not. Being that confident in scum or not-scum suggests something more than just a vanilla townie.

[Nachomamma8]

So you would recommend to the town to lynch you immediately if Shanba turns up pro-town, right? If not, why not. Being that confident in scum or not-scum suggests something more than just a vanilla townie.

Actually, I disagree with this. See Glork's play for example. Players often deliberately overstate their degree of confidence. Plus, some people do just become really convinced they're right.

I forbid any automatic lynching of sempai if I get lynched.

It was a question and not a statement. I was trying to point out how overconfident he was being, I wasn't actually recommending for an automatic lynch tomorrow.

[Nachomamma8]

So you would recommend to the town to lynch you immediately if Shanba turns up pro-town, right? If not, why not. Being that confident in scum or not-scum suggests something more than just a vanilla townie.

Gotta trust in how you play the game right? Sure, I'm game. Go for it. I'm just a vanilla townie but I'm confident that I've nailed a scum player here.

I think chibo is telling the truth.

However, please don't claim like this in the future.

I know nacho sort of goaded you into it, but it's not usually so good for the town to claim when you're not being run up to a lynch. It helps scum find power roles if they can narrow the field.

BTW, slight role-fishing tingles from nacho.

Why do you think that chibo's telling the truth? And that was meant to imply scum, not power role...

[Nachomamma8]

So you would recommend to the town to lynch you immediately if Shanba turns up pro-town, right? If not, why not. Being that confident in scum or not-scum suggests something more than just a vanilla townie.

Gotta trust in how you play the game right? Sure, I'm game. Go for it. I'm just a vanilla townie but I'm confident that I've nailed a scum player here.

I think chibo is telling the truth.

However, please don't claim like this in the future.

I know nacho sort of goaded you into it, but it's not usually so good for the town to claim when you're not being run up to a lynch. It helps scum find power roles if they can narrow the field.

BTW, slight role-fishing tingles from nacho.

Why do you think that chibo's telling the truth? And that was meant to imply scum, not power role...

[Nachomamma8]

Chibo and Nacho have both raised on my scumdar recently, because of the recent exchange. Nacho was pretty wrong to rolefish there (and yes, that's what "more than vanilla" means imo), but Chibo should have called him on it immediately, rather than broadcasting to everyone, "I'M VANILLA GUYSSSSSSS!" Other than that, Chibo just seems like a new player who gets his words twisted around himself sometimes. Automatically adding some tact and wisdom to his posts would greatly benefit town

I don't believe I was rolefishing because I didn't ask for a claim, nor did I infer something was needed. If I was rolefishing, then what was I rolefishing for? A cop with a guilty result or scum, maybe, but that's not really that scummy to me. Secondly, I was pointing out a fact. Copious amounts of confidence suggest knowledge that a vanilla townie shouldn't have. Am I wrong in saying this?

[Nachomamma8]

No. The cop could be insane, there could be far too many scum for it to matter... Now, in a open game setup (confirmed sanity) with less than 15 players, then I'd say yes, every time. Otherwise, it's basically personal discretion.

[Nachomamma8]

I honestly need to start previewing my posts.

[Nachomamma8]

I said 5 posts because I wanted to see how he would respond. If he spammed 5 posts, then I'd know he was in a rush to get the votes off me. If he made 5 content-filled posts, I'd view him as more pro-town. If he make 5 semi-spammy posts, I'd count that as a point against him. In giving him more freedom in how to respond, I gain more information.

Why did I leave SoG's second vote out of my analysis... Because I didn't notice it, maybe? I am human, y'know.

SoG was mainly focusing on you, you were mainly focusing on him. Congratulations, we're back to square one. Oh, and you mentioned other people every now and then, but nothing even kind of significant.

In response to the bit about Josh, you still wanted more content from Josh when you unvoted. Which you haven't explained yet why you did that.
You missed the second vote? In Post 256, I give two links to the posts where SoG voted me. In Post 257, you state that SoG's

first

vote was possibly a pressure vote. Explanation?
Of course I mentioned SoG the most in my posts. He was my top suspect? However, I did point most (If not everything) out that struck me as scummy from other players.

Can't say why that post activated my gut. It just did

I asked for more posts because

content cannot be measured

. Asking for more contents is subjective "Hey, I DID have more content this time", while asking for a set number of posts is objective "Nope, that was 4 posts, not five." I moved the vote because he gave me what I asked for, I told him I still wanted more content so he knew I had my eye on him. Is that a good enough explanation for you?

And where was my analysis again? I'm not a player that worries on every single thing everyone else says; when I search for a reason to vote to lynch someone, I find a good reason. Any person can look scummy if you try hard enough to make him to, and being hung up on one or two words in a person's post is the perfect way to. And you commenting other player's scumminess is NOTHING if you don't follow up with it.

Then why not bring it up later, when you've found the reason of your gut feeling? You're basically screaming at the scum "HEY! Watch out, I might be getting a bit suspicious of you..." or "By the way, I have my suspicions on so-and-so but can't explain them... Mind doing the hard work for me?". Bringing up gut feelings is a useless move as town unless you have something behind them.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote

as promised. But I still want more content.

@Snow Bunny:

1) To me, vote patterns (how much you vote) are null-tells. You can vote for one person because you find them the scummiest, or you can vote for multiple because you believe in pressure voting.

2) Did you read my bit on SoG's hypocrisy? If so, what do you think about it?

3) Not necessarily stretching. Pointing FoSes without votes down suggests a fear to have to explain a vote.

4) Self-preservation isn't scummy either. If you are a townie and are trying to avoid being lynched, defending yourself and starting a bandwagon against someone else is preventing a mislynch, which is pro-town.

You voted Josh for more content, but here you unote him, eventhough you want more content? Yep, needs some explanations.

And why did you respond before SoG did?

But did I ask for posts or content? Hmm...

You asked for posts

Exactly... >.>

I asked for posts, he gave me posts. So I kept my word...

[Nachomamma8]

Any particular reasoning behind it all, Pome?

[Nachomamma8]

Why aren't you a fan of lynching replacements? Are they auto-town because their predecessors replaced out?

Also, why is Shanba the most scummy, and why does being a replacement auto-clear her?

[Nachomamma8]

Just got prodded, but don't have any earth shattering things to post. Mainly waiting for Greeny and Zazie to do their catch up posts.

[Nachomamma8]

Because, as of now, no one seems scummy enough to warrant my vote. Budja is my top subject, but he hasn't even replaced in yet. And before you ask why I find him scummy, it's because he was scumhunting less than everyone else in the game, and when he voted, it was always after someone else had voted for that same person, and he never actually added anything to the cases other people made, so it seemed to me like he was just trying to skate along...

[Nachomamma8]

Shanba, honestly, you could warp that no matter what words I used in that situation. I used an objective marker so I could quite literally force him to post more; in asking for more content, I could've guaranteed I would have been ignored. I'm a bit confused as to why this is so scummy, but... meh.

[Nachomamma8]

Shanba, honestly, you could warp that no matter what words I used in that situation. I used an objective marker so I could quite literally force him to post more; in asking for more content, I could've guaranteed I would have been ignored. I'm a bit confused as to why this is so scummy, but... meh.

It's not the words you used, as such. It's that you were trying to get him to do something (i.e. post content) but despite the fact he didn't do it, you unvoted. And this is because you put down such rigid criteria. I reckon I might be getting upset over nothing, but such inconsistencies always draw my attention: I still don't understand

why

you would use objective criteria at all in such a context.

Well then, put yourself in my position. What would you have said if you wanted more content, and when would you have unvoted?

[Nachomamma8]

Will post tomorrow, at a friend's house.

Just so y'all know that I'm not completely gone.

[Nachomamma8]

Wow, never thought I'd say this, but because of the above post, Shanba's actually starting to look more pro-town. He still has yet to explain away Snow's blunder(s), but on the 545, he basically took the words right out of my mouth, and spat them out a different color Still waiting on Yankee though...with a name like that, he's gonna have to do alot to prove himself town (kidding).

I'd have to agree witth you here. And personally, I can't hold Shanba to Snow's mistakes because we have to keep in mind that they are two different people, and Shanba can only guess why Snow did what she did...

Remember that someone with a lot of suspicion cast on them has no choice but to carefully act as pro town as possible. Surely everyone is here to act pro town and not have suspicion, but it seems kind of odd that his post came off to you as exactly what you would expect a townie to say (since you said it's the same as you were about to say) when instead of looking at all of his posts in general and making that assumption. I suppose he's doing a good job then of attempting to rid the suspicion on him.

However... Does that last post take away all of the scummy actions of SB? Does that post take away any doubt that was on him earlier in the game? Remember that he's forced to play 100% like a townie (or he will get lynched) at this point, and him or SB might not have been so careful earlier hence the slip ups. You can't erase the past posts by them...

Chibo, if I'm not mistaken, you're voting someone for saying exactly what a townie would say? You're completely and totally tunneling, and due to Shanba's townie actions as of late, it's starting to seem a bit scummy that you haven't changed your mind, not even a little.

Vote: ChiboSempai

Who are your top five suspects as of late? Why?

<snip>

I think the case against me is overblown. I think ChiboSempai has now descended into full on tunnel mode is falling prey to confirmation bias (notably when he accused me of slipping: elvis_knits has already explained how that could never possibly be scummy.) I had begun to think we were moving on but it seems not: if you're still going to prosecute the case against me, people, then I want a response to some of my defences.

<snip>

Chibo's tunneling seems to me like him desperately to push the bandwagon over the cliff and get you lynched. He's not listening to any reasoning at all, and he's just starting to bother me. His logic makes no sense, and I can't believe he just tried to warp an analysis into a scumtell. An analysis prevents a player from abstaining their opinions on something, and it gives townies insight into other people's play. And if she's purposely excluding information on someone, it's not hard to figure out. Chibo, read the Too Townie fallacy, and stop playing so scummy.

[Nachomamma8]

And where was my analysis again? I'm not a player that worries on every single thing everyone else says; when I search for a reason to vote to lynch someone, I find a good reason. Any person can look scummy if you try hard enough to make him to, and being hung up on one or two words in a person's post is the perfect way to.

And you commenting other player's scumminess is NOTHING if you don't follow up with it.

Then why not bring it up later, when you've found the reason of your gut feeling? You're basically screaming at the scum "HEY! Watch out, I might be getting a bit suspicious of you..." or "By the way, I have my suspicions on so-and-so but can't explain them... Mind doing the hard work for me?". Bringing up gut feelings is a useless move as town unless you have something behind them.

If the bolded is aimed at me, stop the lies again. Do I need to give examples where I thought somebody was scummy, pointed out why and kept questioning his/her responses till I got what I wanted?

As for the second paragraph, disagreed.

Don't be so paranoid.

Also, why do you disagree? For the hell of it?

[Nachomamma8]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12091

There's that link you wanted.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote

as promised. But I still want more content.

@Snow Bunny:

1) To me, vote patterns (how much you vote) are null-tells. You can vote for one person because you find them the scummiest, or you can vote for multiple because you believe in pressure voting.

2) Did you read my bit on SoG's hypocrisy? If so, what do you think about it?

3) Not necessarily stretching. Pointing FoSes without votes down suggests a fear to have to explain a vote.

4) Self-preservation isn't scummy either. If you are a townie and are trying to avoid being lynched, defending yourself and starting a bandwagon against someone else is preventing a mislynch, which is pro-town.

You voted Josh for more content, but here you unote him, eventhough you want more content? Yep, needs some explanations.

And why did you respond before SoG did?

But did I ask for posts or content? Hmm...

You asked for posts

Exactly... >.>

I asked for posts, he gave me posts. So I kept my word...

Why Josh? I looked through and saw a minimal amount of content from Josh. Posts? Sure. Content? No

Another game of 'Spot the Contradiction'. Who will win after ZazieR?

Announcer (muttering): Mhm. Mhm. Oh, dear. (turning back to the audience) It seems ZazieR was disqualified from 'Spot the Contridiction because he is utterly, utterly wrong. We apologize for the misunderstanding, people. Here is Nachomamma to explain why this is so.

Nachomamma: Thank you. ZazieR is wrong because the very contridiction he is trying to point out doesn't exist. Ouch. I have already explained why I asked for an objective measure (posts) instead of what I truly wanted, a subjective measure (content). Even if you disagree with me, please don't make me explain the same thing more than five times. Thank you, and goodnight.

[Nachomamma8]

Because, as of now, no one seems scummy enough to warrant my vote. Budja is my top subject, but he hasn't even replaced in yet. And before you ask why I find him scummy, it's because he was scumhunting less than everyone else in the game, and when he voted, it was always after someone else had voted for that same person, and he never actually added anything to the cases other people made, so it seemed to me like he was just trying to skate along...

Then why didn't you vote him earlier?
Also, this was the reason why you voted him the first time, yet his explanation was worth an unvote. What changed?

Because I was fairly inactive and didn't do anything. It changed because that explanation can't extend over a long period of time; it was more an excuse for the moment rather than for an entire game.

[Nachomamma8]

And where was my analysis again? I'm not a player that worries on every single thing everyone else says; when I search for a reason to vote to lynch someone, I find a good reason. Any person can look scummy if you try hard enough to make him to, and being hung up on one or two words in a person's post is the perfect way to.

And you commenting other player's scumminess is NOTHING if you don't follow up with it.

Then why not bring it up later, when you've found the reason of your gut feeling? You're basically screaming at the scum "HEY! Watch out, I might be getting a bit suspicious of you..." or "By the way, I have my suspicions on so-and-so but can't explain them... Mind doing the hard work for me?". Bringing up gut feelings is a useless move as town unless you have something behind them.

If the bolded is aimed at me, stop the lies again. Do I need to give examples where I thought somebody was scummy, pointed out why and kept questioning his/her responses till I got what I wanted?

As for the second paragraph, disagreed.

Don't be so paranoid.

Also, why do you disagree? For the hell of it?

Nope, I have my reason. No point in telling as it would lose its purpose due to that.
If it wasn't aimed at me, then what was the point of the bolded?

Fair enough. And the point of the was a declaration to some of the less aggressive of the players in this game.

[Nachomamma8]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12091

There's that link you wanted.

Will look at it some other time.
But do you agree with what Yankee said about the way you play this game and in the game you linked and why?

Definitely agree. I paid more attention to that game than this one, and overall, my play is just worse in this game.

[Nachomamma8]

Post 633 (Not a fan of quote pyramids)
Anyway, yes, there is. You state that you asked for posts, so that it would lead to more content. But in the second quote, you state that you see posts, but no content (before Josh gave the (almost) five posts).

I asked for posts because posts are measurable. I wanted content because content is good. I didn't ask for content because content is immeasurable, and I didn't want posts without content because they're useless.

[Nachomamma8]

Post 633 (Not a fan of quote pyramids)
Anyway, yes, there is. You state that you asked for posts, so that it would lead to more content. But in the second quote, you state that you see posts, but no content (before Josh gave the (almost) five posts).

I asked for posts because posts are measurable. I wanted content because content is good. I didn't ask for content because content is immeasurable, and I didn't want posts without content because they're useless.

By asking for posts rather than content, don't you risk getting posts without content?

Mmf.

There's a lot of irrelevant stuff from zazie this time. Like asking pome what a "sitting" is. Look it up in a dictionary. I don't really like this style, it just clogs my brain trying to process it all.

I'll check Nacho's link to see if the meta holds, but I'm still in favour of lynching Yankee.

But by asking for content rather than posts, I risk getting nothing. I'd rather see that he bullshits his way through five posts because it shows that he's trying to get the vote off him in a hurry; otherwise, he could've ignored me and posted nothing, which wouldn't have drawn any suspicion to him whatsoever.

[Nachomamma8]

Yet if he had just bullshitted 5 posts off in a hurry, would you have lifted your vote since he had fulfilled your condition? If not, why did you lift your vote when he hadn't given enough content by your own admission?

He did, and I did. He fulfilled the condition I set before him, so I removed my vote. I was planning on pressing the matter, but it slipped my mind and he was replaced by someone who gave us adequate content.

[Nachomamma8]

POP QUIZ: When does the deadline end?

Answer: In two days. Closest person to lynch is Shanba at 4 votes, then Yankee at 2. Take's 6 to kill...

Unvote, Vote: ChiboSempai

I want him to die because he's too confident to be scum.

I wouldn't mind Pome dying because EK's reasons are sound.

I wouldn''t mind Shanba dying because that's the only lynch I could honestly see us putting into action today.

[Nachomamma8]

POP QUIZ: When does the deadline end?

Answer: In two days. Closest person to lynch is Shanba at 4 votes, then Yankee at 2. Take's 6 to kill...

Unvote, Vote: ChiboSempai

I want him to die because he's too confident to be scum.

I wouldn't mind Pome dying because EK's reasons are sound.

I wouldn''t mind Shanba dying because that's the only lynch I could honestly see us putting into action today.

Regarding Pome, EK stated she thinks Pome is acting townier. So what's up with what you said?

Also, with this said, I prefer lynching Pome. I'll only switch at deadline if needed.

Pome hasn't been acting townier, despite what EK said. The points EK brought up against Pome and the behaviors she described haven't ceased to happen.

[Nachomamma8]

Can you link me to that twilight game, please?

[Nachomamma8]

And what if you're wrong? Then you'll have wasted all the nice people's time here, including your own.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: ChiboSempai

Shanba was town. Start explaining.

[Nachomamma8]

And whoops, mah bad as far as the whole color think goes...

[Nachomamma8]

You made a mistake. Chibo was overaggressive, and his incessant tunneling of Shanba was a bit... put-offish. He seemed DAMN sure of Shanba's guilt, and I want to know what went wrong.

[Nachomamma8]

Until he provides an explanation on how his actions benefitted the town, sure.

[Nachomamma8]

Whose side do you find yourself closer to agreeing with? Mine, or his?

And off topic, have you ever been an SK before, and if you have, could you link me to the game? I just want to see how you handled that game XD

[Nachomamma8]

That's bullshit, and you know that as well as I do. You were TUNNELING on Shanba all day yesterday. I know you weren't the only one to vote Shanba, but you definitely didn't make a tiny little effort to pursue anyone else, at all. You even said that Snow_Bunny's replacement would be guilty until proven innocent.

You bring up that I put suspicion on you yesterday. That's because I was suspicious of you tunneling yesterday, and now I'm suspicious of you tunneling to get a mislynch today. Now, give me the explanation I asked for earlier, and tell me how you believe your actions were pro-town.

[Nachomamma8]

I'd recommend not reading off into the nightkill too much. It's scum playground for WIFOM and that kinda thing. Any other suspects? I'd really like to hear from Greendude's replacement, once he gets here.

[Nachomamma8]

I asked you for a simple explanation. Why aren't you giving me one? Why are you dodging my request?

And now, let me make something clear that you aren't understanding. At this moment, I don't care who voted for Shanba; a lot of people did. I care why YOU voted for Shanba, okay? Try to reiterate your case against him. You don't have to make it long, just make one.

Yesterday, you were POSITIVE he was scum. Everyone else voting for him wasn't so sure, now were they? So far, you have given me nothing as to why Shanba's case was so goddamn irrefutable. Before, you even said that if Shanba was town, then we could lynch you... Why shouldn't we make you follow through on your promise?

[Nachomamma8]

Whose side do you find yourself closer to agreeing with? Mine, or his?

And off topic, have you ever been an SK before, and if you have, could you link me to the game? I just want to see how you handled that game XD

Completed games where I have been an SK have been marathon games, so take that how you will.

Oh. I just wanted to see a game with Sociopath the SK killing everyone...

@Pome: My SK question was only directed towards Socio. Sorry for the confusion.

[Nachomamma8]

Hmm, very interesting...

Nacho, please explain why you voted Chibo before he had a chance to post.

Chibo, that does not let you off the hook for tunneling D2. Voting for someone and helping lynch them is not the same as tunneling.

I'm also kind of wary of EK, but not from the NK; rather, from some newly uncovered meta from Second String Muppets (it's recently completed if you wanna check it out). EK was scum there, but managed to escape suspicion all game long, and acted extremely townish. Doesn't make her suspicious in this game, but it does make me examine her a little closer, because she's one of the ones who is just scary good as scum. Also, looking at the NK history, including last Night, it seems we have expert scum on our hands.

In game setup news: It seems as though we have a town drunk. Not sure why SK was brought up, unless Nacho just softclaimed it o.O. There was only one kill last night.

And Socio, I know what you mean about your top suspect being NK'ed; he was my top suspect too. To me, the NK just doesn't lead me to anyone in particular...

I brought up SK because of a random thing... I wanted to read a game about Socio the SK.

I voted Chibo before he had to post to express my suspicion of him. Day 1, I had already looked at him, and asked why he was tunneling so. He never answered my questions to my liking, and so my suspicion carries on.

[Nachomamma8]

[/color]

*sigh*

[Nachomamma8]

And before I go to bed, I'd just like to make two short observations about Chibo's behavior that are scummy to me.

1) He starts up a bit of an OMGUS case against me in post #701 by saying "It's simple scum logic." I don't like when people call the "scum logic" they're pointing out simple or obvious because it implies that whoever doesn't catch it is stupid if they miss it. So, it's a scum's way of preying on an overinflated ego or two who claim to understand the logic, but really just don't want to be stupid. It is also a way of giving his case more plausability by use of his confidence, which is the same thing he did with Shanba.

2) I don't like his attempt at deflecting it towards everyone else by saying "I'm not the only one who voted for Shanba... there were guaranteed townies that went for it." In other words, he's either misunderstanding exactly what I'm accusing him of, or he's trying to misrep me. I'm not voting him/suspicious of him because he voted Shanba, I'm voting him/suspicious of him because he tunneled Shanba.

[Nachomamma8]

XD

I guess great minds really DO think alike..

I brought up SK because of a random thing... I wanted to read a game about Socio the SK.

Or for purely for the fun of it because you'd imagine that I'd be a good SK?

The correct answer has been left behind.

Yankee, and nacho - your votes were useless. Why were you holding onto votes that had no chance of lynching anyone? Who were your second choices for lynch after the vote you cast?

I was unhappy with a Shanba lynch, and honestly, my vote was pretty useless. Whether it was on Shanba or not before the deadline came, the same person would get lynched. My second choice would have to be GreenDude because of his professional lurking.

And this is no where in particular, but to answer your question, yeah. Greendude is getting replaced.

[Nachomamma8]

Wow, never thought I'd say this, but because of the above post, Shanba's actually starting to look more pro-town. He still has yet to explain away Snow's blunder(s), but on the 545, he basically took the words right out of my mouth, and spat them out a different color Still waiting on Yankee though...with a name like that, he's gonna have to do alot to prove himself town (kidding).

I'd have to agree witth you here. And personally, I can't hold Shanba to Snow's mistakes because we have to keep in mind that they are two different people, and Shanba can only guess why Snow did what she did...

Remember that someone with a lot of suspicion cast on them has no choice but to carefully act as pro town as possible. Surely everyone is here to act pro town and not have suspicion, but it seems kind of odd that his post came off to you as exactly what you would expect a townie to say (since you said it's the same as you were about to say) when instead of looking at all of his posts in general and making that assumption. I suppose he's doing a good job then of attempting to rid the suspicion on him.

However... Does that last post take away all of the scummy actions of SB? Does that post take away any doubt that was on him earlier in the game? Remember that he's forced to play 100% like a townie (or he will get lynched) at this point, and him or SB might not have been so careful earlier hence the slip ups. You can't erase the past posts by them...

Chibo, if I'm not mistaken, you're voting someone for saying exactly what a townie would say? You're completely and totally tunneling, and due to Shanba's townie actions as of late, it's starting to seem a bit scummy that you haven't changed your mind, not even a little.

Vote: ChiboSempai

Who are your top five suspects as of late? Why?

<snip>

I think the case against me is overblown. I think ChiboSempai has now descended into full on tunnel mode is falling prey to confirmation bias (notably when he accused me of slipping: elvis_knits has already explained how that could never possibly be scummy.) I had begun to think we were moving on but it seems not: if you're still going to prosecute the case against me, people, then I want a response to some of my defences.

<snip>

Chibo's tunneling seems to me like him desperately to push the bandwagon over the cliff and get you lynched. He's not listening to any reasoning at all, and he's just starting to bother me. His logic makes no sense, and I can't believe he just tried to warp an analysis into a scumtell. An analysis prevents a player from abstaining their opinions on something, and it gives townies insight into other people's play. And if she's purposely excluding information on someone, it's not hard to figure out. Chibo, read the Too Townie fallacy, and stop playing so scummy.

There would be my reasons yesterday. You never responded to the question in this post. Why not?

Also, I never knew Shanba was town. I had a little bit of healthy doubt that he was scum, which I consider to be a pro-town trait. And I didn't understand Yankee's points, can you explain them to me?

[Nachomamma8]

Kirby, please don't fail to note that my "tunneling" has been going on for a little more than 24 hours. In toher words, I wouldn't exactly call it tunneling.

Gut feeling on Greendude is saying that he just lost interest. And as for his scene... I just had the feeling that it was part of the death scene, mainly because I doubt Battousai would make any inferences about someone's role ingame like that...

[Nachomamma8]

My second is easily Greendude because of his failure to scumhunt, his lack of content, and the simple fact that all of his content was "will post more later". Unfortunately, I'm getting a gut feeling that it was more due to disinterest than anything (I've probably said that before).

My third is suspect is Socio. He's a little on the quiet side, and his "I find it easier to read people when they attack me" shenanigan seems to encourage townies in leaving him alone.

[Nachomamma8]

Also, I'm not liking all this favoritism of me.
I'm not used to playing in game where every player isn't attacking me at some point.
People should start making cases on me.
I find it easier to read those that are attacking me.

In this post, you practically dare everyone to make a case on you, saying that you find it easier to read those that are attacking you. To me, I read that you will look more closely into someone that attacks you as opposed to anyone else. A townie who is not 100% sure of your scumminess will be reluctant to attack you in fear of having a weak argument used against him. Do you understand now?

I'm so used to being attacked in games, that I find I can more accurately gauge the alignment of attacks on me. When a multitude of people are attacking me, I can better determine which are coming from scum, which are coming from town, and which are coming from VIs.
With everyone and their mother throwing me in their town lists, I lose a fair-sized chuck of my methods.
Luckily I'm adaptable, so I'll manage regardless.

But really, me saying that is a win/win for me. XD
Because if people find me scummy for me saying to make cases on me, then if I am scummy for that, then they'll start making cases on me!

Again, bragging of your expertise in using people's arguments against them.

[Nachomamma8]

And why would a townie be afraid to attack me? You are arguing the exact opposite of what I'm saying. I think it is you who doesn't understand.

If I get a better read on people that attack me, and a townie attacks me...then obviously its easier to gauge whether or not that attack originated from a townie. You are seemingly trying to twist my words to make it sound like every case and attacks I do is nothing more than OMGUSes.[/color]

A townie would be afraid to attack you because you sound like the only case you make on people stem first from their attack on you. So, it wouldn't be unreasonable at all for a townie to be wary of attacking you as an unpopular target because they realize they will be the only one doing so, and thus your main target. And if you're telling the truth, then of course you will find something... There is always enough to make a lynch look convincing on anyone who is actively participating; you just have to look hard enough.

[Nachomamma8]

Well, I'm not. You are seemingly trying to dodge responding my points against you by saying that I'm twisting your words.

[Nachomamma8]

Kirby, Chibo, nothing to say to Yankee's declaration?

So Yankee, you're basically telling us that you are a One-Shot Vig and you targeted Zazie, which means that the mafia's kill was stopped. Do you retain your shot after it was blocked, and did you get a PM from the Mod telling you your ability was out?

If you did succeed in getting a kill and the mafia didn't, I'm guessing it was a doctor or a hider or a bodyguard or a screamer, basically something we don't want the mafia to know about.

Anyways, enough speculation. If you are a pro-town roleblocker who blocked someone else last night, I'd recommend waiting until you are 100% sure you can't get your target lynched by the normal means before claiming, or if you have reason to believe you will be NKed or lynched.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm sure our good friend the mod would know...

BATTOSAI: Would a one-shot vig retain his shot if he targeted the same person scum did?

Do you retain your shot after it was blocked?

[Nachomamma8]

Well, I'm not. You are seemingly trying to dodge responding my points against you by saying that I'm twisting your words.

You have no points against me.

Is that really your entire defense? That has to be the laziest scum defense I've ever seen in my life, Socio. For someone who is extraordinarily good at picking up reads on someone when they attack you, you definitely don't defend yourself well.

@Kirby: Socio is right about the situation with GD. Mod flavor doesn't mean a whole lot. It's. just. mod. flavor. GD didn't pick up his prod. He's getting replaced. End of story.

@Pomegranate: A screamer is a pro-town role that can roleblock anyone from killing. Also, when targeted for an NK, it will "scream" and attract the whole town to kill the murderer, but it won't live through the night. Hope that made sense...

[Nachomamma8]

Chibo is lurking because he can't come up with a good excuse, Kirby. So I'd suggest you start looking elsewhere for suspects, Kirby.

[Nachomamma8]

1) Explain post 496. How does players attacking you help you get better reads on you?

2) Quote where I said that all of your attacks are OMGUS.

3) Re-say what I didn't listen to.

[Nachomamma8]

Sorry, #1 was a mistype. The second "you" should read "them".

2) Alright, now explain how either of those statements are false.

3) From the way your posts on your strategy sound, it looks like you make cases from people who attack you. Because this is your primary strategy and you've been here over a year, I assume you're good at it. So, if you were scum using the same strategy, you could pick apart a townie's weak argument on you and make them look scummy. So, a townie who is a little suspicious of you but not confident in his/her case may stop from commenting on their suspicions in fear of being misconstrued.

If the preceeding paragraph has incorrect logic or stupid conclusions, point out the sentence in which they start.

[Nachomamma8]

I love you so much, bro. Yellow 3 and Pear are pretty easy for me to read.

[Nachomamma8]

Sorry I've been gone lately, but I don't really feel like there's any need to change my vote today. Chibo's talk of "I have a reason for my change in playstyle, but telling you would hurt the town" is extremely anti-town in itself, and since he's already claimed to be a vanilla townie... I'm pretty happy with a ChiboLynch right now.

I have no idea what the Kirby wagon was founded on, but I also don't like the fact that Socio brought it up, then faded into the background and let it gain a bit of momentum.

EK, I don't see Yankee rolefishing Chibo at all, considering he already claimed by that point. And as to his talk to the pro-town RBer, I honestly don't think that the scum would guess a town RBer (that's pretty damn unusual), but that's just me.

[Nachomamma8]

I'd lurk too if I had that unreadable color. It's doing a favor to my sanity.

[Nachomamma8]

Read: I'd lurk too if I had that unreadable color. It's doing a favor to the town's sanity.

[Nachomamma8]

Right now, Chibo seems like a pretty useless cop because we have to wait for him to get an innocent result in order to discover his sanity (which might never happen in the first place). It's also a handy lie to excuse his mislynch of Shanba, and a handier to try to influence us to get another mislynch.

And Kirby? If we get an innocent result, we lynch HIM first to verify what we're doing, not his result, for two reasons: 1) If he is what he says he is, it's unlikely he'll live to a innocent result, and 2) It's much safer to do so anyways.

For now, I will

Unvote, Vote: Jahudo

for blatant lurking. The yellow crayon is just starting to bother me.

[Nachomamma8]

Not before lynching anyone else, but before lynching an innocent result Chibo might get. That way, if he's truth-telling cop, he'll be willing to tell us a guilty result and sacrifice himself for a mafioso, but if he's a lying scum, he'll be more likely to just give up, and he'll be just as aware as we are that he won't get another mislynch.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't think a cop should be asked to sacrifice himself. A cop, as long as he's either regular or insane, is a very powerful asset to town. I'm not willing to give up that upper hand.

If he's lying, he

may

be able to get one more ML out of us, but after that he's dead. I don't think scum would do that. It's not worth it to them.

But how long to you let him live? How many consecutive guilty results does he have to come up with until you get tired of him? Before the claim, Chibo was almost certainly going to be lynched; if he was scum, he was between a rock and a hard place. So, the best possible move would be to stall as long as possible, to survive a few more days and to mislead the town, possibly managing to draw suspicion off his scumbuddies as well. Not only can scumChibo take from us another townie life, but he can rob us of our precious, precious time. And also, let's not forget HOW close we are to LyLo. If there were three scum (which, with all the anti-town elements, I highly doubt), we are in MyLo, and one more mislynch would equal a scum victory. If there are 2, then a mislynch today and a mislynch tomorrow is a scum victory. We are much closer to the end than you seem to realize, Kirby.

TownChibo is really not that useful until his sanity is revealed. If he is paranoid and not NKed, then not only will we waste days and time trying to figure out his alignment, but we will lynch him in fear he is scum, but much later in the game and much closer to LyLo. The best possible thing that can happen is getting a scum result, and being sacrificed for it. As for your point of waiting to lynch him so he can get more results down the road... I'd rather not have Chibo in LyLo with me because of how suspicious this claim is. It's far more likely a TownChibo in LyLo will result in a Town loss than it is that he'll get 2 guilty results before LyLo gets here.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: Sociopath

Obviously, Jahudo is making an effort to participate, as revealed by his analysis of Day 1 and Day 2, so I am unvoting. I am voting for Socio because of his failure to say anything about the analysis whatsoever; instead, he basically stated that is was "interesting", and said that he'd post something of substance later.
The vote goes to Sociopath as opposed to Kirby because of earlier suspicions I had on Socio, but I think it is just as suspicious for Kirby to do the same thing. Town points to Pome for actually posting something on the analysis instead of just acting like she's going to do something.

[quote="Jahudo]

* Post 392 Where he suggests that Chibo’s confidence suggests more than VT. Regardless of whether he tried to or not, that wording is an odd way to suspect someone as scum, which he admits in post 409. It is odd because scum are not considered “More than vanilla townie”, as he wrote, but different than vanilla townie. You take a VT and add more to make a power role. So it plainly implies rolefishing. And Post 409 could be backtracking. Both posts are concerning and suspicious.

[/quote]

Based on Chibo's play thus far and my own uncertainty on Shanba's alignment, it seemed to me that Chibo was a cop who had gotten a guilty result on someone (which he was, by the way). I also felt that he was possibly trying to make it seem that way so he could get the lynch and not have to take the responsibility of it if Shanba appeared town. So, I thought it important for Chibo to claim cop at that point only if he got a guilty result, so we could trade a cop for a scum, which, in my opinion, is a good trade. I did not want ChiboScum to get away with saying he was overconfident later.

* Post 513 his reasoning for Budja looks like a piggyback off other people’s cases. It even feels like he’s aware of this, but I don’t see an attempt from him to take a different/closer look. However, he was prodded right before that post, so it likely could be a result of inactivity. I could see this post coming from town.

At that point, I was quite busy, and I really didn't have any solid reads at the time. It wasn't a very pro-town mood, but I didn't want to be replaced, and I didn't really know what to post at the time.

[Nachomamma8]

Messed up the tags, but you get the idea.

[Nachomamma8]

EK brings up a pretty good point about Yankee's unprovable role, which I find more suspicious based on the timing of it all. At that point, Chibo was under fire and Yankee was nowhere close to being lynched. So, instead of laying low and looking for rolefishers, he decided to claim and broadcast that we have a pro-town power role that can stop mafia kills, giving no one but the scum knowledge of it (if Yankee is town, the scum knows for sure. if Yankee is scum, no one knows for sure), and basically making him look more townish.

I don't remember Pome saying anything about EK having the most reasons to kill Zazie... I'll check that in a few.

[Nachomamma8]

Well, because of how aggressive Chibo was acting, I thought his sanity had been verified. And I think a cop with a guilty is good to trade with scum and worth doing because it is always possible he can be NKed during the night. I would rather have one scum dead and one cop dead as opposed to one cop that knows who a mafioso dead. It's all about rather being safe but sorry.

I DO want a cop with a guilty to claim if he believes that his result is legit. Chibo obviously believed his result was legit based on his insane tunneling, so it would be better to claim than keep it a secret.

And I was suspicious of Chibo at the time, but I also felt that it was possible that he was the cop and had a reason to be so suspicious about Shanba because the reasons he was coming up with weren't exactly the best, or the most convincing.

Yes, it does imply that I was pressuring as if he was scum.

[Nachomamma8]

How does a Jester hurt the mafia? A jester, if the jester plays correctly, causes a mislynch for town and gives the mafia a free kill.

[Nachomamma8]

Happy Halloween, indeed.

Socio, is that the only reason for your vote?

[Nachomamma8]

Socio, is that the only reason for your vote?

Shu Dup.
Its Halloween.
I''m Orange.

Kirby is obv buddy of Pom.

You never actually answered my question...

[Nachomamma8]

Aww... what a cute defense. If you were V/LA, then why did you even bother to post? And if you could post six words on halloween, why couldn't you give us six more explaining your vote, which you still haven't explained that wel...

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Deadline Extension

I want to do this before I forget.

[Nachomamma8]

Popcorn massclaim is a good idea, and I'll volunteer for first if we have a bit more approval for it.

Pome's doc claim makes a lot of sense. In fact, after reading Twilight Mafia, I iso'ed her and thought to myself "she must be the doctor...". Pome's claim makes Chibo's claim more reasonable,, and also makes it seem more likely he's insane.

More coming later, but my brain hurts from all the new claims.

[Nachomamma8]

Also, Yankee? Please bold your vote for the Deadline Extension.

EK, I see it like this. Jester and Not Sane cop are detrimental to town, no? Doctor is obviously helpful to town, and One-Shot Vig is a bit swingy, but usually town-harming. Based on the confirmed power roles we have right now, it would make sense to have an insane cop/doctor combo. Otherwise, it just wouldn't seem balanced.

[Nachomamma8]

To those who say Socio is pro-town, can someone show me a case that he's made on someone? A rational-sounding case on anyone, really... I just want to see ONE case.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm a Vanilla Townie. No flashy special abilities or night actions to speak of.

Kirby, you next.

[Nachomamma8]

A 3 person mafia is typical in my experience, with 1 third party role to make 4 total scum. But I have only seen a jester in a mini once before, and that only had 2 mafia.

That makes my top suspect Nacho, and my default second Kirby. But honestly, I'm considering a Chibo lynch just for the results and because

I don't think we're in MYLO

. Unless Nacho is GF or Chibo is paranoid, lynching Chibo would give us 2 flips for 1 on people who are probably not among tonight's NK targets. There are some "ifs" in this plan, so I want to just talk about it now while we all name top suspects.

Jahudo, why don't you think we're in MYLO?

[Nachomamma8]

But it is entirely possible that we have a three person scum team, and you want to lynch someone who we have considerable reason to be a cop. Are you really sure you want to put this game on the line from a hunch?

I guess I don't have the same confidence as you do; I'd rather spring for a no-lynch and have a guaranteed result from Chibo than lynch him and possibly end the game... Also, if there is a two-man scum team, we won't pay fatally for it. After all, no matter which way you look at it, we basically have a mislynch and a no lynch's worth of lenience.

So,

Unvote, Vote: No Lynch

[Nachomamma8]

You're missing my point. If there's three scum, and if we lynch wrong, we lose. Do you have ANY reason whatsoever to KNOW that there's two scum instead of three, or if you are pretty damn sure that someone is scum, then enlighten me. But right now, I'd rather improve my chances than lose.

[Nachomamma8]

Good job Pome and good job Pome. It was definitely an awesome setup Bat, and you confused me with having a lone SK until the end