Mini 855: Colorless Rainbow Town (Halted for list mod error)

[Manzcar]

VOTE FUZZYMAN

FuzzyWuzzy waz a bear not a man

[Manzcar]

d3x..........AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

[Manzcar]

Why does it matter Monkey what roles are out there?

[Manzcar]

No was wondering why you were so concerned with the roles. Seemed a little like rolefishing to me.

[Manzcar]

post 17 was meant for Monkey

[Manzcar]

thus why it felt like rolefishing.

There were no set rules stating what roles townies or scum have. So in my mind rolefishing is rolefishing. It's just a small step from fishing roles on townies or scum.

[Manzcar]

No i agree knowing scum roles helps town knowing town roles helps scum. Fishing for roles could actually bring out town roles you didn't mean to bring out so therefor fishing for roles is anti town.

We differ in that I feel fishing for roles is bad for town.

[Manzcar]

And I think you are hiding your town scummy rolefishing by acting like you are concerned with what roles the scum have in hopes that a power role will drop some sort of breadcrumb.

[Manzcar]

I believe I said I think which means it is my theory meaning that I am not saying that is what you are doing but what I feel about it. It is not misreping you by stating what I feel or believe or think.

So what did you intend?

[Manzcar]

So who was going to tell you this information?

[Manzcar]

So what is your evidence against me. ohhh yeah I questioned your motives for rolefishing. Okay its OMGUS.

[Manzcar]

@Manz

What are your current thoughts about Monkey's concerns? Do you think his swift attack/defense means something to you?

He is attacking me because I asked a question. I asked because something seemed off to me. His response was quick and defensive and his vote was OMGUS. He is now trying to say I am scummy for asking a question on something that concerned me. To me asking questions is scum hunting not scummy. He is either a paranoid townie or a scum who feels that I am cornering him. I still haven't made up my mind.

Why does it matter Monkey what roles are out there?

That's an attack or an attempt to incriminate you?

I can see where MM is coming from on the

potential

implication of this question. I do not read any sort of attack here, though. I likewise don't see any direct attempt to incriminate.

I wasn't trying to attack nor incriminate only find out whether the intent was town leaning or scum leaning in rolefishing. The response after is what caught my eye.

I didn't mean it was a direct attack. I meant that he was being over-antagonistic towards a player trying to get information that would be useful to the town.

again I ask who was going to give you this information that would be benefical to the town? Was scum going to come out and say hey here I am?

I don't even think it was antagonistic.

My point is I don't think a pro-town player would have asked the question, or implied my position was anti-town.

So a protown player shouldn't ask questions when they see something that seems off to them? I never said nor implied that you position was anti-town with that question. Where did I do that in that question? Can you point it out?

[Manzcar]

Wait. I just went back and reread this interaction and it went as follows...

p8 MM- 'No Scum Power Roles.'
p11 Manz- 'Why does it matter?'
p14 MM- 'This is why I think it matters.'
p15 MM- 'Vote Manz b/c you're concerned about the Town knowing the Scum make-up.'

*disclaimer- These are paraphrases

That doesn't look right to me. You just said that you Voted because he was being 'over-antagonistic towards a player'. To me it reads as a player asking for clarification. You Voted

before

he made his supposedly scummy comments. Can you give me a bit more information about the initial Vote?

No, I don't think you get it.

Scum

would be worried about the

town

knowing about scum roles, which is what Manz expressed concern over. Town would be in favor of gaining scum-related information.

No you still don't get it. I would love to know the scum set up that would be great. But as town we do not know the set up and the Scum are not going to drop breadcrumbs as to what the set up is.

Role fishing of any kind only benefits scum BECAUSE scum are not going to tell you how many there are. OR do you think that scum will tell you?

[Manzcar]

I wasn't trying to attack nor incriminate only find out whether the intent was town leaning or scum leaning in rolefishing.

So you think that mafia would ask about their own roles for the purpose of rolefishing?

To rolefish and bring out possible town roles I think scum would do anything. To assume that they wouldn't is naive. It is WIFOM to say that scum wouldn't rolefish their own roles. it isn't like scum is going to drop breadcrumbs on their roles. If something doesn't make sense to me or seems off to me I will ask questions.

What I find funny is that Monkey keeps saying that I am attacking him and trying to incriminate him but all I did was ask a question. That is when he voted me. I am still not sure whether or not he is scum but I also feel that others need to get involved and more discussion needs to happen.

I still would like to see an actual case that isn't WIFOM on me. To say that I asked a question about someone rolefishing scum roles means I am scum makes no sense to me. There is no logic in it and it is based solely on WIFOM. I would like Zee or Monkey to explain why it is scummy rather than say a town player wouldn't question someone rolefishing scum roles because that is WIFOM. Because as far as I can tell that is all that there is to this argument.

[Manzcar]

You could claim discussion on any scummy behavior is WIFOM. Would scum hammer on L-1 without talking about it first? Wait, that's WIFOM!

So then you believe that any claim of scum behavior made should be taken as valid whether or not there any real foundation for the claim?


Okay then. I say you are scum because you reacted very defensive to a simple question. You have attacked me for no other reason than you don't like being pressured which is scummy behavior. You make leaps of reality to mean what you want in order to color someone as scummy. You also are twisting what I said to mean something it wasn't. The question was asking me if scum would do something. The answer is that it is WIFOM. WHY are you twisting reality to make it something it is not?

VOTE MONKEY

Raivaan your answer is a cop out. REALLY it is. You made a statement now back it up.

[Manzcar]

So where is your case against me. I have asked for it but you still can not provide a case other than to say I am scummy.

[Manzcar]

I did

Seep, Fuzzyman, Cruelty and Jason are you going to join us? What do you make of the day so far?

[Manzcar]

I still find it strange that people are not willing to lay out their case against someone they say is scummy. Is it really difficult to lay out a case or is it just laziness. Why would anyone that is protown want to withhold information from the town?

My case against Monkey again.

First my question to Monkey was

Why does it matter Monkey what roles are out there?

Defensive attitude when asked the question and twisting the meaning of the question to mean something it didn't to serve as a scum tell.

Unvote:
Vote: Mancar

Only scum would be concerned about town knowing their role makeup. Not saying we do, but certainly suspicious.

I never said I was concerned about town knowing the roles makeup. Where did I say that I was concerned that the town may find out the role make up from that question… I didn’t. The question was twisted into meaning something it never meant.

Twisting answers by a person to mean something that they did not to serve as a scum tell.

thus why it felt like rolefishing.

There were no set rules stating what roles townies or scum have. So in my mind rolefishing is rolefishing. It's just a small step from fishing roles on townies or scum.

That's where my opinion differs from your opinion. There is a BIG difference. Knowing scum roles helps town. Knowing town roles helps scum.

I was talking about rolefishing in general not knowing the roles. I never said that knowing scum roles didn’t help the town I said that rolefishing is rolefishing. And in my mind rolefishing of any kind has the ability to out power roles.

Making wild accusations with no backing

No i agree knowing scum roles helps town knowing town roles helps scum. Fishing for roles could actually bring out town roles you didn't mean to bring out so therefor fishing for roles is anti town.

We differ in that I feel fishing for roles is bad for town.

I think you're trying to disguise your scummy concern for the town knowing mafia roles. It's easy to discern town rolefishing and scum rolefishing.

I said I agreed that knowing scum roles helps town. But I am trying to disguise my concern for the town knowing mafia roles. Mafia will never tell us their roles. They will never drop breadcrumbs so others know their role because the Mafia already knows each other. It is WIFOM but why would Mafia care if you started wondering about the Mafia set up. They wouldn’t. To say they would is making a wild accusation to fit your vote.

Misrep’n me to paint me in a scummy light.

So to clarify, you Voted him because you felt that his asking...

Why does it matter Monkey what roles are out there?

...was anti-Town?

Yes, since it implies that he is against the town getting that sort of info.

Where does it imply that I am against the town knowing the Mafia roles. I keep saying I believe knowing the Mafia roles would benefit the town. I keep saying that rolefishing of anykind can out power roles beneficial to the town even by accident. But you keep saying I don’t want anyone to know the Mafia roles which I have never said nor implied. You have admitted to the fact that you were rolefishing for scum roles.

[quote="MonkeyMan576]
I think it was fairly obvious that my rolefishing was directed at scum. I can percieve where a townie would be concerned with rolefishing in general, but to me it is more likely that he is scum worried about the town knowing their role makeup. Being concerned about scum rolefishing is scummy, being concerned about rolefishing in general without noting the difference between looking for scum info and looking for town info is suspicious at least. He continues to defend his position without recognizing my point.[/quote]

First you say that a townie could be concerned with rolefishing in general (either for scum or for power roles), but when I am concerned about your rolefishing it’s because I am scum worried about the town finding out about the Mafia roles. Well again, I recognized your point and even agreed that knowing the Mafia set up would benefit town. You have chosen to ignore that fact. I have posted that I agreed to that point and yet you ignore that fact. You are misrepresenting me, my intent, and my position. My point is that I am concerned that rolefishing of any kind can out a power role beneficial to the town even by accident. My position is I asked you a question and you have over reacted and started to attack me for asking you the question. You still haven’t said who was going to let you know the Mafia roles you were fishing for. My play style is if anyone says or does anything that doesn’t make sense to me or seems off I will ask a question to see what reaction I get. And you have given yours and I believe I have all the information that I need on you at this time.

[Manzcar]

I am not intentionally misrepping anyone. If anyone would like to point out where I am I would like to know.

As stated before I don't know if he is acting this way because he is a paranoid town or because he is scum. I believe that for me I have exhausted the subject and would like others to get involved in conversations.

[Manzcar]

Which argument was silly. I have recognized your points in many places. Which points am I not recognizing?

[Manzcar]

I said knowing what scum roles were out there is good for town and protown several times.

[Manzcar]

I have given examples to my points.

Why don't you explain away the examples instead of simply saying that they are silly. Change my mind that what you did wasn't how I have interpreted it. Simply saying my examples have no merit but not explaining why does not validate your point that they are silly.

[Manzcar]

Are you kidding me. Are you telling me that you continued to argue with me because you have missed the several time that I have said that knowing scum roles benefits the town?

[Manzcar]

Okay now

UNVOTE

by the way my original post was to find out if you were rolefishing and to find out why? My unvote is due to the fact that I now believe Monkey to be a paranoid townie, which is what I was trying to figure out.

[Manzcar]

MOD - Due to real life personal issues that have arisen I am unable to play for a while therefor I need to be replaced. Sorry for any problems that this causes.