Perfectionist Mafia - Resultas

[Sanjay]

Let's skip the RVS,

Vote: BloodCovenent.

the only post that can be used of BCs

Scummy in the fact that he self-voted, yet I've seen several town including myself do this. I don't like the fact that he wanted immediately out of the RVS, but then that's a topic most of mafiascum is split on.

BC hasn't posted very much to really analyzed, but I think there is more to being on his wagon than simple dislike of self-voters (in my experience self-voting is rather townish).

I'd like to hear more from BC about his subsequent posts, actually, because they are more why I am on the wagon to begin with.

Until that point, yes, I am okay being on the wagon.

My vote is staying because im infuriated.
Arrogance is scummy. I feel as though im being hunted and i dont expect that this early in the game from someone supposed to be town.

Also the way he placed his vote on me was scummy imho. Ill elaborate soon.

Could you explain your reasoning for considering arrogance a scumtell?

[saberwolf]

(no one get cute, ive

yet

to see a RVS where one of the bandwagons is scum)

trying to convince us that randomly landing on scum the first day never happens.

I have NEVER said "i have NEVER seen a RVS where one of the BW are scum" I said i have YET to see one. Do not twist my words Saber.

I'm not twisting. Lets put this in an easier example: My family has never won the lottery. It is still accurate of me to say, "I've yet to see any of my family win the lottery".This implies that my family had never won the lottery.

You said you've yet to see scum get RVS BWed, which means you've never seen it happen before.

NEVER = YET

[My Milked Eek]

It shows that he doesn't care about getting out of the RVS. It may not be the best reason for a lynch, but I feel he definitely needs some pressure.

Who's talking about lynching here? And why do you consider saber to be more worthy of pressure than, eg, snow white?

aaaaand I will

vote: sanjay

because eeni-meen-minei-mo told me so. (out of all of the bolded names on this list of the first page ^_^)

So, you decided to explicitly tell us Mr. eeni-meen-minei-mo told you to vote for sanjay.

I feel as though im being hunted and i dont expect that this early in the game from someone supposed to be town.

lol
So everyone who lies back and watches the game is town?
"supposed to be town"?

Are you saying you assumed saber to be town? Why is that?

[Sanjay]

Snow White, how serious do you think the people who jumped on the BloodCovenent wagon were about their vote?

[MrSuave]

@wikedestjr: I could just as easily ask the same of you. it also seemed like you wanted to get out of RVS.

@MMK: is it wrong to state how I decided my vote? I was attempting to be funny, because I had not yet made such a post.

@SW: how does arrogance translate into being scummy? O_o and how does being mad translate into a valid reason to vote someone? correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a form of OMGUS?

From the points that have been pointed out against SW, I will put my support behind this wagon.

vote: Snow White

[Santos]

Santos - Do you like the wagon on BloodCovenent? Do you think it is helping?

No, I like this:

Vote: Lowell

1) Not a random vote
2) I am picking on a quiet random voter
3) I have a gut feeling he's the quiet scum of the group

Its a little suspicious seeing Snow White go after Lowell as well. Scum partners? Its possible, but purely speculation atm. I won't forget her vote on him earlier.

[BloodCovenent]

I hope this helps you guys!

Covenent, why did you want to skip the RVS and start a wagon on yourself? Of course, you could just be scum, cutting to the chase. Please do explain.

One of my more recent games, the RVS lasted for five pages, and yielded no information. I was tired of the random BS floating around. And from now on, when entering games, I will either policy vote one of two things when beginning a game. Kise, and myself. Why would scum want to get themselves lynched?

@All who are voting me solely on me voting myself.

-To you, is there a difference between RVS voting myself to get discussion going, or me self-voting when I am being pressured, and am close to a lynch (obviously self voting out of frustration).

Secondly. Why call for a bandwagon and then FoS myself, Mufasa and Lowell for obliging you.

It was just how quick you were to mindlessly jump on the wagon. Not even questioning why I would do such a thing. You didn't even question me before voting, which somewhat surprised me. Out of the three of you, no one questioned me. I should have probably FoS'd MME, and EC, but... meh, it was a little late I guess.

my vote was to see if any reactions occured. Also, if you happen to be scum and I start to tilt the BW your way, then it would be interesting to note what happens if the opposing BW is a scum or town one, and what scum do to prevent their member from being lynched. If I feel you are town or don't think the BW is worth pursuing, I can always take my vote off later.

Good job on the pressure vote. you waited what... 41 minutes to see if it worked. You should have at least waited a day.

Why so quick to jump on the bandwagon?

You pretty much claimed to be scum. Now people vote you, and you FoS them for it. Are you trying to discourage them from voting?

I have only ever seen scum self vote once, where as I have seen town self vote two-three times. So how exactly did I claim scum?

I get somewhat of a town vibe from Mufasa. He seemed to quite easily put the third vote on the BloodCovenent wagon which seems like kind of a scary place for scum to tread. Plus I think his frustration with BloodCovenent seems townish to me. I am getting a town vibe on My Milked Eek for similar reasons.

How do you get frustration from this?

BloodCovenent is of interest to me. He invites a wagon on himself and then casts huge suspicion on everyone that joins him. It's like he doesn't get his own joke. I guess that could have been his plan all along (be bait and see who bites), but it seems like bad town play. I know it is often wrong to equate bad town play with scumminess, but I do get a sort of scum vibe from BloodCovenent's play so far.

I feel as if you're misinterpreting my reasons for to self voting. And in fact, if I had read the rules, I probably would not have done what I did (because I was already self voting :p so shouldn't that golden rule have been used on everyone else ), instead I should have voted "no lynch," to start discussion.

Mufasa's vote looks pro-town to me because to me it reads like "weeeee, let's bandwagon" where as Lowell's reads more like "okay".

And that looks like frustration.....yea....

I'm talking about where you cast a second random vote. Why did you cast a second random vote? Do you think it helps?

I would rather a player cast several (beyond two) random votes, than not vote at all.

(no one get cute, ive

yet

to see a RVS where one of the bandwagons is scum)

trying to convince us that randomly landing on scum the first day never happens.

I have NEVER said "i have NEVER seen a RVS where one of the BW are scum" I said i have YET to see one. Do not twist my words Saber.

Frankly, why are you holding BC to being scummy when clearly what he wrote he wrote as a joke. Is your humorous missing?

1. I'm going to side with Snow on this one. It feels as if you were trying to manipulate her words Saber.
2. How do you know I wasn't being serious. I did want to skip the RVS. And in a sense I did. I cause 4-5 Players to start off a game with their "serious" vote.

My vote is staying because im infuriated.
Arrogance is scummy.

But it's not a scum-tell. It may be scummy in a tentative sense. but it doesn't mean that he has to be scum. A good scum-hunter can be cocky too. Hell, I was in Kubrick Mafia.

I'm not twisting. Lets put this in an easier example: My family has never won the lottery. It is still accurate of me to say, "I've yet to see any of my family win the lottery".This implies that my family had never won the lottery.

You said you've yet to see scum get RVS BWed, which means you've never seen it happen before.

NEVER = YET

Yes you are, because you didn't take into account all of the

other mafia games

where scum have been RVS bandwagoned.

Getting pro-town reads from

-Saber (aside from the twisting of Snow's words)
-AlmightyBob
-Sanjay

Neutral- scummy actions

-wikedestjr - Lack of real content. Just feels like he's asking dumb questions, that aren't really helping the town that much
-Snow - Voting out of anger only hinders the town, because you are blinded by your bias, therefore thinking clear can be harder. I'm not exactly listing you as scum. However your behavior is not pro-town, but I don't have a complete read on you.
-All of the lurkers! Me included too!

The rest, I have Neutrals on, for the most part.

[My Milked Eek]

@MMK: is it wrong to state how I decided my vote? I was attempting to be funny, because I had not yet made such a post.

It seemed very... forced and out of place.

[BloodCovenent]

@MMK: is it wrong to state how I decided my vote? I was attempting to be funny, because I had not yet made such a post.

It seemed very... forced and out of place.

In the sense that I (personally) felt that we were out of the RVS, I would agree with you MME.

[saberwolf]

my vote was to see if any reactions occured. Also, if you happen to be scum and I start to tilt the BW your way, then it would be interesting to note what happens if the opposing BW is a scum or town one, and what scum do to prevent their member from being lynched. If I feel you are town or don't think the BW is worth pursuing, I can always take my vote off later.

Good job on the pressure vote. you waited what... 41 minutes to see if it worked. You should have at least waited a day.

Please explain what you mean by this. My vote is still on Snow White.

[dramonic]

Personally I like BC's post (although I wasn't one of the voters, so I'm not exactly targetted XD)

[BloodCovenent]

my vote was to see if any reactions occured. Also, if you happen to be scum and I start to tilt the BW your way, then it would be interesting to note what happens if the opposing BW is a scum or town one, and what scum do to prevent their member from being lynched. If I feel you are town or don't think the BW is worth pursuing, I can always take my vote off later.

Good job on the pressure vote. you waited what... 41 minutes to see if it worked. You should have at least waited a day.

Please explain what you mean by this. My vote is still on Snow White.

If you're going to give a pressure vote, then actually put some pressure on the player. When you vote someone, and label it a "pressure" vote almost immediately after the action, it denotes the purpose. A better pressure vote would have been waiting at least a few hours.

[Sanjay]

BloodCovenent, I think you are misunderstanding why I got a pro-town read on Mufasa. It's not because of his choo chooo post (though I found that post oddly endearing). It is because of this post.

That post also was the first to ask the question that pretty much sums up why I voted for you. I thought you were inviting a wagon on yourself to see how people react. It seemed kind of odd that you would then automatically turn around and cast suspicion on all the people that were helping you out.

Could you explain what exactly was your intention with the self-vote, if not to form a wagon?

Also, why exactly do you have a pro-town read on me, especially when you think I have this bogus town read on Mufasa?

[BloodCovenent]

BloodCovenent, I think you are misunderstanding why I got a pro-town read on Mufasa. It's not because of his choo chooo post (though I found that post oddly endearing). It is because of this post.

Actually, I think I see what your saying, but I don't think I could find frustration from that post. At least, I wouldn't label it as that.

1. That post also was the first to ask the question that pretty much sums up why I voted for you. I thought you were inviting a wagon on yourself to see how people react. It seemed kind of odd that you would then automatically turn around and cast suspicion on all the people that were helping you out.

2. Could you explain what exactly was your intention with the self-vote, if not to form a wagon?

3. Also, why exactly do you have a pro-town read on me, especially when you think I have this bogus town read on Mufasa?

1. I felt as if they just rather jumped on hastily. They didn't really take time to question it, they just jumped on it carelessly, IMO.

2. I attempted to start a wagon on my to start discussion. It somewhat worked. I had no intention of lynching myself. Which I would consider to be the difference between someone else justifying their vote on me (after I already self voted), and me voting myself in the RVS. I think I already stated this, but if I had read the rules, I would have voted no lynch. Solely to start discussion. Not because I wanted no lynch, or a quick night. I know that having a lynch day one, whether it be a town, or a scum lynch yields profitable information.

3. I get a townish read from you somewhat off of gut read, and also your interactions between Wickedestjr. Although I disagree with what your are saying about mufasa, that doesn't mean you aren't trying. Where as others are not, imo. Its the same thing with my townish read on Saber, I feel as if Snow was correct in their spat, but I feel that saber is acting pro-town.

[Wickedestjr]

Unvote

For some reason I thought saber's vote for Snow White was random.

This part, I disagree with. I've seen far too many noobTown OMGUS their way to their own lynch. I don't think OMGUS is a reliable scumtell.

Yeah, but is Snow White a noob?

Which is it?
And for the record, infuriating =/= scum. If your case is based on things you do not like about saber, it won't cut much ice with me. If you have something to suggest he's scummy, that's a different matter, but being annoyed is not a good reason for a vote.

Why can't it be both? You can agree with a case and want to pressure somebody. Can't you?

My vote is staying because im infuriated.
Arrogance is scummy. I feel as though im being hunted and i dont expect that this early in the game from someone supposed to be town.

Also the way he placed his vote on me was scummy imho. Ill elaborate soon.

So it's not to pressure him?


Will finish catching up when I get the chance.

[almightybob]

Why would scum want to get themselves lynched?

Why would Town?

-To you, is there a difference between RVS voting myself to get discussion going, or me self-voting when I am being pressured, and am close to a lynch (obviously self voting out of frustration).

I'm not on that wagon for that reason anymore, but I was, so I'll answer anyway. Yes, there is a difference. The point is taken, and I'm satisfied with your explanation. Thanks.

Good job on the pressure vote. you waited what... 41 minutes to see if it worked. You should have at least waited a day.

Might I point out that you waited 1 hour 52 minutes after your self-vote before FOSing everyone who jumped on the wagon. Granted it's not a pressure vote, but if you got what you wanted after less than 2 hours, maybe saber got the reaction he was looking for after less than one.

Yeah, but is Snow White a noob?

Well with things like this:

My vote is staying because im infuriated.
Arrogance is scummy. I feel as though im being hunted and i dont expect that this early in the game from someone supposed to be town.

I doubt she's a MS pr0. Surely a regular Mafia player would know that random people get hounded based on little evidence during Day 1. I expect random wagons on D1, and I wouldn't be shocked if it happened to be me.
Maybe I'm wrong. But if she's a pro, wouldn't she also know not to OMGUS, as either scum or Town?

So basically, I don't think OMGUS is a scumtell. It doesn't really matter whether the particular player is the ultimate Mafia genius or a fresh-faced newbie.

Why can't it be both? You can agree with a case and want to pressure somebody. Can't you?

Yes, you can. But SW isn't agreeing with any case, she's admitted that she's voting for saber because she finds him annoying. It feels more like she added the "pressure for an unjust vote" part to make it seem OK, but to be honest, pressure for an unjust vote just boils down to OMGUS.

Now as I've said, I don't think OMGUS is a scumtell, but I don't like votes for weak weak reasons like "I'm irritated".

[MrSuave]

@MMK: is it wrong to state how I decided my vote? I was attempting to be funny, because I had not yet made such a post.

It seemed very... forced and out of place.

well, I agree that it was kinda late to be messing around like that, but I just got into the game. I'm sorry if that messed anyone up. I came to the game as soon as I got the PM of my role.

[EtherealCookie]

Sorry I'm quiet, give me till the weekend so I actually have some time on the computer

[nook]

unvote, vote SolemnJ

Hello. I believe your post was completely useless. Yes we know you are here and reading, so why don't you get involved? Do I need to guide you along with questions or are you capable of forming thoughts on the game by yourself?

As for the rest, give me some time to do a re-read, my brain kinda lost track of the arguments to and fro thus far. Or a summary of the perspectives of each otherwould be nice

[SolemnJ]

nook, stfu; I'll post when I feel it helps the town.

And that will be by the end of the day.

[Snow White]

Delay due to volunteer work and being elected to school council. (in case there are doubts, see Return to Smalltown Y) Currently catching up.

@Sanjay.

Could you explain your reasoning for considering arrogance a scumtell?

Simply it means in my mind anyway, one is concentrating hard on one individual without examining the rest. I find it anti town not to explore other players ideas and concentrating on one, sole individual to get them lynched. I cant call it pro town.

Snow White, how serious do you think the people who jumped on BC's wagon were about their vote?

Hm. Im not quite sure, i done so in jest but when the votes began to topple in on him i was quite unsure. Serious may be the wrong word.... opportunistic? I'd have to do a reread.(im in school atm) But i will get back to you on that.

@Saber

NEVER = YET

Do you have a dictionary at home?

The definition of "NEVER" imho is soemthing that is impossible to happen in any given space of time. It will NEVER happen.

"YET" being the word which leaves open the chance that yes, this event may happen, but i have not seen it occur to date.

You HAVE twisted my words.

@My Milked Eek.
Why am i worthy of presusre?

lol.
So everyone who lies back and watches the game is town?
"Supposed to be town"?

No. What i meant by this is i dont see town being so aggressive in the space of what was 4 pages, to seriously consider someone scum.

Are you saying you assumed Saber to be town? Why is that?

Well im not psychic with any preconcieved visions of who may or may not be scum. Frankly when i go into a game everyone starts with a scum level of zero. It builds from there depending on peoples interactions, thoughts and their votes. Do you not think?

@Mr. Swauve, see the post in reply to Sanjay. I am not illiterate. I will always returned to any posts raised about me.

Oh lord i was stating yes i was annoyed at Saber because i saw no valid reason for his vote considering he'd just made a joke about me being scum and then voted me for a "competeing bandwagon" which i find as anti town. If whoever wants to interpret that as OMGUS. So be it.

*Bell is after going. Do not fear, Ill reply to the rest when i get home.

Snow White.

[saberwolf]

@Saber

NEVER = YET

Do you have a dictionary at home?

The definition of "NEVER" imho is soemthing that is impossible to happen in any given space of time. It will NEVER happen.

"YET" being the word which leaves open the chance that yes, this event may happen, but i have not seen it occur to date.

You HAVE twisted my words.

*facepalm*

Does anyone else find it amusing/sad that she tells me to look it up in a dictionary, then proceeds to give me her own definition of the word?

I can disprove you once again Snow White: "I have never flown first class before on an airplane". According to you, the thought of first class is impossible for me and will never happen. "I have yet to fly first class on an airplane" Has the exact same meaning. Both of them imply that i have not been in first class on an airplane. The same applies to your statement. You say you yet to see a scum BW in RVS, which means you've never seen one. YET = NEVER.

Now stop arguing over this pointless garbage. This isn't a matter of arguing scum vs townie, this is a stupid argument over synonymic sentence structuring. Please drop it and start scumhunting, cause all you're doing is whining and bitching.

[Snow White]

Does anyone else find it amusing/sad that shetells me to go look it up in the dictionary, then proceeds to give me her own definition of the word....all you're doing is whining and bitching.

Irony.

I gave it how i meant it to be interpretted it. Like most people i assumed would interpret it, you were the one to pick it out and if you plan to argue it as a point against me i will defend myself against it. But people may read it as they may.

I dont believe im being all whiny and bitchy. But if i am then if someone would like to point this out i will happily replace out.

back to the regularly scheduled activities.

@Santos. I voted Lowell randomly because of our last game together he lurked absymally as scum. Id vote him but my vote is now on saberwolf.

@Blood Covenent.
[quote="BC] Why would scum want to get themselves lynched? [/quote] It wasnt a question of you getting lynched. Its a question of you voting themselves, its a good way to get conversation started and for fingers to point at those who do vote for you in retrospect. It can be used as town or scum. But imho null tell. [/quote]

I voted you first so i will answer the question posed

All who are voting me solely on me voting myselfis there a difference between RVS voting myself to get discussion going, or me self-voting when I am being pressured, and am close to a lynch (obviously self voting out of frustration).

im not sure what your asking here but yes, the big difference here is that at the start of Day1 when you vote yourself you are not in fact robbing the town of a potential town. Voting yourself day1 will instigate conversation whereas hammering yourself well stops discussion cause well your dead.

In regard to my voting of you it was a joke. I did not expect as many votes as you got to accumulate and were i later than second i would not have voted you. But thats all just wifom really. It was the RVS and i was not taking it too seriously, unfortunately.

I have read the famous Kubrick. And i thought you turned cocky when you were revealed as cop. However my memory could be flawed but it was a gg. Interesting.

In regard to my annoyance on Saber. Im willing to leave it behind until i can distinguish is it his attitude or his actions that have me ... unsettled. My vote rests with him atm because frankly id like to do a reread of the topic to date anger subsided

@Sanjay

I thought you were inviting a wagon on yourself to see how people react. It seemed kind of odd that you would then automatically turn around and cast suspicion on all the people that were helping you out.

who did you think BC was going to point the finger at?

@Wicked.

For some reason i thought saber's vote for Snow White was random

my vote was to see if any reactions occured. Also, if you happen to be scum and I start to tilt the BW your way, then it would be interesting to note what happens if the opposing BW is a scum or town one, and what scum do to prevent their member from being lynched. If I feel you are town or don't think the BW is worth pursuing, I can always take my vote off later.

Quite a serious reason behind it all imo.

I'd like to say im a fairly unppredictable scummer. There have been games ive played resoundingly well, there have also been more recently games ive played miserably at. All my information is in my wiki. Ive only been here a few months. So, not to sound big headed, im still learning.

Pressure was part of it. To show that i wanted an answer i added a vote. If he had answered it satisfyingly without getting into insults i may have removed it. But whats done is done.

@Almighty bob. BloodCovenent garnered a lot more votes than i did in order to warrant a FoS. No?

Im not aware of anything particularily that warrants such hounding. Maybe its because ivee never been one in question on day1.

In terms of OMGUS. You believe it never should be done? Its neither helpful to town or scum? Then why not use it?

I ave said i have not liked sabers actions toward myself, i do not expect such actions from town so early. This is not to say that i am certain saber is scum. Im not. But that i have not to date liked his actions. In regard to where my vote is, where do you suggest me putting it? Unvoting means i vote myself. I for one am not enticed to do such a thing.

@nook. Your vote, please tell me is random?

I think thats it. So im off to do my reread. Post tomorrow or the day after with scumlists.

@Mod. Potential V/LA friday, hopefully i will get a post in before i go to Mayo. Will be gone all day Saturday and maybe Sunday, friends 21st followed by inevitable hangover and bus ride home.

[SolemnJ]

I have a little problem finding time to post, but I promise not to let you people down.

I'll have my beliefs by the end of tomorrow morning.

[almightybob]

Sorry guys, my home internet connection had decided to pack in. I'm at uni just now, will try to find time to post tomorrow if I can't fix it by then.