Newbie 844 - Game Over (Scum Win)

[xvart]

HackerHuck replaces Dondero

Welcome, HackerHuck. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Hopefully then the conversation will resume.

xvart.

[Pyrogen]

Alright, we only have, what, 3 days? I don't think we'll get anybody.

I'm going with my gut and voting for the IC.

/vote fhqwhgads

He's cautious and barely scumhunting at all (besides me and Annachie), instead addressing only minor issues. This is my reason for the vote.

Comments?

[HackerHuck]

I'm here now. Normally I unvote right off, but it appears that Dondero never bothered to vote.

That said, we have too many people here sitting on their hands. We're less than a week from deadline and the last official vote count shows four people not voting (including me). The rules indicate that if we reach deadline without a majority, there will be no lynch. That's unacceptable for day one, because we need the information that will be gained from a lynch. At this point in the game, each one of you needs to have at least one person you find scummy and another person that you would be willing to lynch to avoid a no-lynch. Day two is a lot harder without having the benefit of two deaths to work off of.

I've done a quick readthrough and I'm going to post my thoughts from that. This isn't exhaustive, but I want to let things settle before I dig into the entire thread again. There isn't a lot of organisation to my notes, so I apologise for their seeming randomness.

My take on the initial Pyro gambit is that he's looking to stir things up. I don't really get any feel of alignment one way or another from it, but I found to be much less than helpful. I didn't see his vote ranking as anything more than quirky. I don't agree, but it's certainly not indicative of alignment.

Page 5 - interesting go about with xvart and fhqwhgads. It's like they're sparring for the sake of argument and not really reaching the necessary conclusions. xvart is voting for Pyro and giving soft reasons, whil fhqwhgads is throwing about an accusation of coaching and yet doesn't find pyro to be scum? How is that coaching? I also find the comments on Pyro by fhqwhgads to be a little disconcerting. His concerns about the Pyro wagon are in line with someone who is setting up a day 2 mislynch if the Pyro is town and gets lynched.

Pyro - I understand a lot of what he's saying, but I get the feeling that he's being deliberately difficult. I think his original trap move of pushing for the no-lynch is pretty bold for a scum, but newbies tend to act unpredictably. I wouldn't be opposed to his lynch, but he's not the top of my list.

Hitogoroshi's defence of the Donderro/JustMe pairing comments seem rather odd to me. I'll need to follow up on this...

I like Darth's little analysis in post 122. However, I would have liked to see a firmer stance on someone, along with a voteof his vote. Shows he's looking at things and appears to be scum hunting.

Startransmission makes a decent stab at analysis, but he doesn't remember who he's voting for and fails to make any solid judgement on who to vote for. He calls out fqads as a likely town, but that's where his vote is sitting?

I don't like Darth's vote on Dondero. If he hasn't posted elsewhere on the site, what makes you think a vote will do anything? You thought he was scummy in your analysis post, but chose not to vote then. I think this is a lame excuse for a bandwagon vote.

What's with the waiting to hear back from Dondero before posting? There are two scum in the game, so even if you think he's the one, there's still an opportunity to find out the other.

Interesting post by annachie...

Startransmission makes a pressure vote on Pyrogen that seems incredibly out of character.

I just saw the vote by Pyrogen. I'm glad he's voting, but I don't like his logic at all. If I'm reading it right, the vote is because he's the IC and he's barely scumhunting.

Why is being IC worthy of a vote and out of all the people not scumhunting, why him?

In fact, I'm going to

Vote: Hitogoroshi

for a similar reason. He has been posting, but really hasn't made any effort to root out scum or even put a Vote on anyone.

Mod

If the deadline has officially moved to October 17th, could we get the first post updated to reflect that?


Lastly - it's been a while since I've played here, but I'm surprised that there are a couple of abbreviations that I'm not familiar with. What is RVS and what is ATE?

[Annachie]

Dondero: VOTE: hitogoroshi
Dondero: Unvote hitogoroshi

But I didn't record the post numbers

For the record,

unvote Dondero

fos

: HackerHuck, Justme. For reasons given before.

(I'm holding off voting for a day or so to digest HackerHuck's post and see what happens with JustMe's aparent absence)

[xvart]

Ok, sorry I've been quiet... again. We have a week left, and I'll be much more active.

My vote sticks. I've been swamped the last couple of days, but in the next few hours I hope to address some things that have come up.

Oh really?

Activity really needs to pick up, and if it doesn't, I'm still happy with my vote as well.

Are you still happy with your vote if it leads to a no-lynch?

Alright, we only have, what, 3 days? I don't think we'll get anybody.

That's a pretty defeatist attitude, or is it a self-fulfilling prophecy? All I can say is if we don't get a lynch I'll be looking at all you people not voting and not contributing; and you all will have a lot of explaining to do.

He's cautious and barely scumhunting at all (besides me and Annachie), instead addressing only minor issues. This is my reason for the vote.

I can't really tell what you are saying with your first sentence, but I assume it is saying that you and Annachie are the only ones scumhunting; which I don't necessarily agree with. In fact, I hardly consider what Annachie has been doing the last few days as scumhunting; in fact, you yourself said it in your analysis:

annachie - posts lack content, evades accusation

What has changed since then? These posts?

Firstly, what accusations?

Secondly, what content is needed? I think I have two people pegged as mafia scum, have laid out my reasoning, and am yet to see anything to change my mind. So really I'm in reading/avoid prodding mode.

Thirdly, well since the first option of the four possible for the game set-up have two power roles it's an easy enough mistake to make to assume two power roles in my reasoning.

Here, directly in response to you saying his posts lack content, he self proclaims that he has already done his scumhunting, is satisfied with his observations. Additionally, he also notes that he is only reading/avoiding prodding.

Why assume two power roles? You know there's a roleblocker, huh, and then noticed you screwed up?

I have a question right back to you about this: How does a roleblocker have anything to do with it? There is a guaranteed two mafia in this game, and not necessarily a roleblocker. Annachie never mentioned anything about the mafia role assignment differences. Do you know there is a mafia roleblocker? And if so, how might that be, I wonder?

xvart.

I bet he did something similar to me, and read the first of the four setup options and kinda read over the latter ones. (Option one has a roleblocker and 2 power roles, option 2 has a roleblocker and no power roles)

I wonder how long it will take to get a replacement in, and how much we should read into it? If Dondero was indeed a mafia, would someone take up the spot given that until recently Don was on 3 votes? Hell, if Don was not actually a scum would a replacement take the spot given the voting?

Now I think it is safe to assume one of two things:

Dondero was mafia, blew his cover, and just quit;
Dondero simply didn't have the time to continue; or,
Dondero didn't have the desire to continue.

or that he figgured that he was going to be lynched reguardless and just quit.

I would propose then that the longer it takes to get a replacement for Don, the more that xvart's first option is the correct one.
But one thing is certain. That replacements first post will be an important one.

fhqwgads: I'm not saying nothing has changed. But not changed enough to change my mind about Dondero.

I'm not quite following you here.

Basically I read the first option and assumed the two power roles in the game for all options. I didn't read it properly.

Anna ... since (s)he

Sorry, just noticed this. He. Took the name from a Loreena McKennitt song 14 years ago or so.

Here he defends you, Pyro, and then talks about illogically judging the replacement based on the time it took to replace Dondero. (note: I fixed the quotes above from the original post, otherwise the quotes remain accurate).

Nah, not really.

I stand by my logic on that xvart, even if I did mis-read the game-setup info.

I'm more thinking about the targeted lynch, random lynch, no lynch thing at the moment. With the first night only a few hours away I'm trying to decide how confident people are about their votes and how confident I am about mine.
Or to put it another way, assuming that we get to the required 5 votes, if that lynching would be a targeted or random one.
An assumption that I make/have made is that a random lynching isn't that random as the scum have influenced it.


Then again, being down to 8 at the moment, would we get to the needed 5.



I'm aso thinking about the various comments about giving a replacement a chance to state their own case.

No scumhunting here, that I perceive.

Actually, would the 21 day count have started when the PM's were sent on the 16th, or when Starkmoon unlocked this thread for us on the 19th? (GMT +10 of course, my local time at the time)

No scumhunting here, that I perceive.

Anna ... since (s)he

Sorry, just noticed this.

He

. Took the name from a Loreena McKennitt song 14 years ago or so.

ROFL

You basically accuse me of lieing about misreading a post, then misread a post yourself. Sheesh. (Colour added for emphasis)

No scumhunting here, that I perceive.

Aye, just ask the wife and 10 kids.

So by now Justme must be in prod mode (12 days?), Startransmission must have had a couple by now (3 posts this month?). Who am I missing?

DarthRandal at 11 days or so?.

Observations about people not posting, which could be considered mildly scumhunting.

Do you still think Annachie is scumhunting?

Pyrogen, you said:

The only way there would be two power roles is if there was a roleblocker.

Let me repeat that again: The only way there would be two power roles is if there was a roleblocker.

2 Power roles (if and only if) roleblocker.

Therefore if there is a roleblocker, there MUST be two power roles.

The above statement is wrong. (I'm not leaping to call it a lie though.)

Not that I particularly want to get drawn into symbolic logic, but here we go anyway.

There are two statements:
There are two power roles; and, There is a roleblocker.

There are also two logical statements:
IF ... THEN; and, IF AND ONLY IF ... THEN.

So...

IF "there are two power roles" (A) THEN "there is a roleblocker" (B).

The validity of the statement works out this way:

A / B / TF?

T / T / T T / F / T F / T / T F / F / F

So any statement about roleblockers and power roles is always valid (even if one of the statements is false)

unless

they both are false (meaning there are not two power roles and there is no roleblocker). So Pyro, your logic is invalid under that construct, which you suggest.

IF AND ONLY IF "there are two power roles" (A) THEN "there is a roleblocker" (B).

The validity of the statement works out this way:

A / B / TF?

T / T / T T / F / F F / T / F F / F / T

So, any statement about roleblockers and power roles is only valid if both statements are true or false. So fhqwhgads, your logic is valid.

I know the IF ... THEN statement looks pretty bizarre and counter-intuitive, but it is true. Because of this, I can't fault Pyrogen for not knowing that since most people would have the same conclusion. http://faculty.uscupstate.edu/mulmer/A% ... ontrap.pdf.

I took a course in college called symbolic logic, and I loved it; it is nice to have some real life application!

Pyro - I understand a lot of what he's saying, but I get the feeling that he's being deliberately difficult.

Do you think that being "deliberately difficult" is pro-town behavior?

At this point in the game, each one of you needs to have at least one person you find scummy and another person that you would be willing to lynch to avoid a no-lynch.

In summary, I think there is an interesting relationship between Pyrogen and Annachie, and would be satisfied lynching either one. If we do not end up lynching either one, I hope that we investigate them further because I suspect at least one of them is mafia.

I am also not satisfied with startransmission (as quoted above) and despite his first contribution analysis, at this point, would feel justified in his lynch.

In all honesty, I would be happy lynching anyone this first day, but I think we will gain the most information from lynching either Pyrogen or Annachie.

xvart.

[xvart]

EBWOP

I am also not satisfied with startransmission (as quoted above) and despite his first contribution analysis, at this point, would feel justified in his lynch.

I forgot to include Justme in there, and his obvious disappearing act puts him in this category.

My list of voting priority (at this time) from highest to lowest is:
Pyrogen and Annachie (tied);
startransmission and Justme (tied).

Lastly - it's been a while since I've played here, but I'm surprised that there are a couple of abbreviations that I'm not familiar with. What is RVS and what is ATE?

RVS = random voting stage

ATE = appeal to emotion

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... reviations

xvart.

[DarthRandal1138]

My apologies for my decided lack of activity lately. It's partly real life, and partly a dissatisfaction with both the general lack of conversation, and the protracted wait for a replacement for Dondero. As both of these problems have been cleared up:

First off,

Unvote: Dondero/HackerHuck

. While I'm still a bit wary of Dondero, the vote was largely pressure to post, and I like what I see in Hacker's post. I'll be keeping my eye on him, nevertheless.

I don't like Darth's vote on Dondero. If he hasn't posted elsewhere on the site, what makes you think a vote will do anything?

That was more observation than suspicion:

You haven't posted anywhere else on the site,

but I'm hoping you haven't just abandoned the game

.

I voted your predecessor for inactivity, but I was conceding the possibility that he had simply (for whatever reason) abandoned the game and/or site altogether.

/vote fhqwhgads

He's cautious and barely scumhunting at all (besides me and Annachie), instead addressing only minor issues. This is my reason for the vote.

"He's not scumhunting (except for when he's coming after me and one other person), so I'm gonna vote him."



I also dislike this:

I don't think we'll get anybody.

You seem to be stopping just short of suggesting a no-lynch again. I think you noticed you were tied for the most votes with a lurker who had just been replaced, and were starting to get nervous.

Vote: Pyrogen

[startransmission]

Pyro - I understand a lot of what he's saying, but I get the feeling that he's being deliberately difficult. I think his original trap move of pushing for the no-lynch is pretty bold for a scum, but newbies tend to act unpredictably. I wouldn't be opposed to his lynch, but he's not the top of my list.

That sums up my feelings on Pyro pretty well. I don't think him pushing for a no-lynch was a trap at all. He seems to be trying every scum move in the book, and when called on it he pulls out an explanation that ends up being rather contradictory.

Hitogoroshi's defence of the Donderro/JustMe pairing comments seem rather odd to me. I'll need to follow up on this...

Please do. I saw what he was saying (though I disagreed) but it did strike me that he was focused on it a bit much.

[quote="HackerHuck"Startransmission makes a decent stab at analysis, but he doesn't remember who he's voting for and fails to make any solid judgement on who to vote for. He calls out fqads as a likely town, but that's where his vote is sitting?[/quote]

What? What do you mean I don't remember who I'm voting for? I voted for Pyro, and that's where my vote stays for the time being. I haven't waffled on my vote at all.

Startransmission makes a pressure vote on Pyrogen that seems incredibly out of character.

How so?

[HackerHuck]

Startransmission - I was referring to your analysis posts - the last of which is here. At the time you say that fqads is likely town, you were still voting him from your initial random vote.

By out of character, I mean that your vote surprised me. You hadn't really made an effort to accuse anyone of being scummy - look at how you discussed everyone in your analysis. The worst comment you had was that Pyro was hard to read. No real suspicion of anyone and then when the game slows down while waiting on a replacement, you decide to vote.

What are all the scum moves that pyro is making?

[fhqwhgads]

Activity FTW!

Welcome HackerHuck.

I'm going with my gut and voting for the IC.

Apart from the obvious objections, why mention my IC status in this vote. I find this VERY strange.

I like HackerHuck's post. I don't agree with everything, but he's definitely doing good work shaking Dondero's stigma. Until this:

Why is being IC worthy of a vote and out of all the people not scumhunting, why him?

In fact, I'm going to Vote: Hitogoroshi for a similar reason.

So, you're calling him out for singling out someone specific and then you do the same? And to top it off, this comes right after complaining that we need to get our act together and vote together? Pot, meet kettle.

For reasons given before.

Humor me. What are these reasons again?

Are you still happy with your vote if it leads to a no-lynch?

Not a simple answer. I'd still want to keep this vote, but I am willing to change it to prevent a no-lynch. At the moment, my vote finger is itching for Pyrogen. Call it OMGUS if you want, but if you want to vote me, at least make it good. I can't defend against gut feelings.

I took a course in college called symbolic logic, and I loved it; it is nice to have some real life application!

Nicely done. I have to admit, my irks with the statement was more out of principle rather than finding the statement itself scummy.

In summary, I think there is an interesting relationship between Pyrogen and Annachie, and would be satisfied lynching either one. If we do not end up lynching either one, I hope that we investigate them further because I suspect at least one of them is mafia.

Agreed.

[Annachie]

Damn, looks like my first response disapeered. Oh well.

In all honesty, I would be happy lynching anyone this first day, ...

I've stated before that I think that random lynching is the tool of the scum, and this sounds like a call for a random lynch.

Tell me, what is your opinion with reguard to targeted lynching and random lynching?

Humor me. What are these reasons again?

Just Me, I'm still suspicious of your concern reguarding voting before the replacement was confirmed. For that matter you never really explained you're concern and then voted despite saying that we should wait a few (real) days yet before voting.
To me it sounds like you're one of the scum and that you knew that the replacement was going to be the other.
Then you voted for the fist person that Dondero (The eventual replacement) pointed a finger at while appearing to be random about it. Trying too hard to appear random in my opinion.

@Annachie – If I’m cahoots with justme then we have to be the most inept pair of scum this site’s ever seen. I merely raise a couple of queries regarding Pyro’s motives for no-lynch, the vote on him drops from one to zero, and then….justme strikes? Yep, we’re the Laurel and Hardy of mafiascum alright!
And all of that in response to your getting called out for posting a lot yet saying not much

Actually, the "call out" as he put it was in the no-lynch discussion.

The catchphrase most associated with Laurel and Hardy is almost always misquoted as "Well, that's another fine mess you've gotten me into."


Given that I think that Just Me managed to out both himself and Dondero I find it funny that Dondero described him and Just Me as Laurel and Hardy.

As I've said before, and will no doubt say again, it was Just Me's first two posts that made me suspicious. His seemingly excessive concern about Don being late to start (due to being a replacement and all that).
Given my belief then the following statements and voting et al, especially Don's Laurel and Hardy one, also seem suspicious.

One thing I have noticed is to pay atention to the first few posts as players seem to be more inclined to express too much information or too much concern.

Anyway. Since then we have Dondero disapeering.

Now I think it is safe to assume one of two things:

Dondero was mafia, blew his cover, and just quit;
Dondero simply didn't have the time to continue; or,
Dondero didn't have the desire to continue.

I'm not the only one to think that Dondero quit because he thought his cover was blown.

and now it looks like JustMe has gone as well.

Personally I would like to see the Justme/Dondero situation resolved, which means a lynching of one of them.

In deference to HackerHuck and his willingness to take a replacement spot and taking into account Justme's absence

Vote Justme

[xvart]

Are you still happy with your vote if it leads to a no-lynch?

Not a simple answer. I'd still want to keep this vote, but I am willing to change it to prevent a no-lynch.

Thanks. That's all I wanted to know.

I took a course in college called symbolic logic, and I loved it; it is nice to have some real life application!

Nicely done. I have to admit, my irks with the statement was more out of principle rather than finding the statement itself scummy.

lol. I am the same way. I thought as much (about the principle) and felt the same way. Honestly, it had been a while since I had created any truth tables and had to double check them.

In all honesty, I would be happy lynching anyone this first day, ...

I've stated before that I think that random lynching is the tool of the scum, and this sounds like a call for a random lynch.

Are we seriously going to go over this again? Wasn't this settled on page two? Tell me the benefits and what extra knowledge you will have by not knowing anyone's alignment tomorrow? We will be in the exact same position other than a night kill, and we will have knowledge about who might want that person dead (but we would have that anyway). AND, we are hardly at a place where it is a random lynch. There is a huge difference between random lynching a town, and incorrectly lynching a town.

Let me be clear: no lynch is anti-town. Period.

Now I think it is safe to assume one of two things:

Dondero was mafia, blew his cover, and just quit;
Dondero simply didn't have the time to continue; or,
Dondero didn't have the desire to continue.

I'm not the only one to think that Dondero quit because he thought his cover was blown.

and now it looks like JustMe has gone as well.

Personally I would like to see the Justme/Dondero situation resolved, which means a lynching of one of them.

In deference to HackerHuck and his willingness to take a replacement spot and taking into account Justme's absence

Again, wasn't this cleared up already? I'm just as disappointed as anyone about the Dondero replacement at that time, but people replace out for any number of reasons, all the time. Just scan other games and you'll see that this game is not unique because of our replacements.

You seem to keep talking in circles and bringing up things that were debates after they were settled for the sake of debating (or appearing helpful).

Vote Justme

And now you vote for the only one with no votes, so close to the deadline? You seem dead set on a no lynch.

Annachie - based on this post you have just moved up in my scum book; and I am halfway tempted to try and swing the lynch vote to you since you want to not lynch anyone; but I don't know if we have the time.

Is there a particular reason you don't want Pyrogen lynched (since he is leading)? What are your justifications for believing that Pyrogen is town. Can you agree that he has acted scummy?

xvart.

[xvart]

In all honesty, I would be happy lynching anyone this first day, ...

I've stated before that I think that random lynching is the tool of the scum, and this sounds like a call for a random lynch.

Are we seriously going to go over this again? Wasn't this settled on page two? Tell me the benefits and what extra knowledge you will have by not knowing anyone's alignment tomorrow? We will be in the exact same position other than a night kill, and we will have knowledge about who might want that person dead (but we would have that anyway). AND, we are hardly at a place where it is a random lynch. There is a huge difference between random lynching a town, and incorrectly lynching a town.

Let me be clear: no lynch is anti-town. Period.

EBWOP: I just reread the quoted statement and I realized I initially misread it; I read "no lynch" and not "random lynch;" so I apologize for that little outburst.

However, as I did say, we are hardly in a random vote stage of the game, and my questions to you are still legitimate.

xvart.

[HackerHuck]

[quote="fhqwhgads]...
I like HackerHuck's post. I don't agree with everything, but he's definitely doing good work shaking Dondero's stigma. Until this:

Why is being IC worthy of a vote and out of all the people not scumhunting, why him?

In fact, I'm going to Vote: Hitogoroshi for a similar reason.

So, you're calling him out for singling out someone specific and then you do the same? And to top it off, this comes right after complaining that we need to get our act together and vote together? Pot, meet kettle.[/quote]

I think you misunderstood me. My first comment was directed toward the fact that we're not voting enough. People are sitting on the sidelines and we need to have a plan in place to vote someone out today. Pick someone scummy, make a case on them and vote. As we approach deadline, make sure that you've got a fallback person you're also willing to lynch.

Regarding Pyrogen, he asked for comments, so I had some questions for him. I didn't label his actions as scummy, so I don't really see the hypocrisy.

I wanted to put together an unofficial vote count. I rolled this forward from Starkmoon's last posted count.

Pyrogen - 3 (xvart, startransmission, DarthRandal1138)
just me - 1 (Annachie)
Annachie - 1 (fhqwhgads)
hitogoroshi - 1 (HackerHuck)
fhqwhgads - 1 (pyrogen)

Not Voting:
hitogoroshi
JustMe

From what I can tell, our deadline is in two days. I suggest we focus our attention to this list of suspects so that we're not scrambling at the last minute. Everybody take a look at this list and think about the pro/con on each one of them and be ready to move. In addition to who you find the scummiest, think about whose death would give us information.

Mod

: Could we get prods on Hitogoroshi and JustMe? I would also like to know whether they actually pick up their prods or not.

[hitogoroshi]

I'm here! Sorry, I have three tests today (that I've been studying for) and my other mafia game has also peaked in activity quite a bit so it's resulted in me paying less attention to this one.

I'll try to dissect the walls of text very soon. But the short version - I've seen a lot of newbieness but nothing that I could easily call "scummy" and not "newbie". As such, I haven't tried to 'scum hunt' in any fashion for these nine pages (also remembering that many of these posts have been activity bump sort of posts.) The most I've done is a.) try to dissuade Annachie from holding steadfastly to a non-case and b.) gently telling Pyro that I think he's lying to save face and should he do it in the future my scum-dar will simply file it under 'lying.' So, basicially, while I obviously disagree with your vote I completely understand it and I'll try to earn it away by responding to whatever content is hopefully locked inside those walls of text.

[Annachie]

Hmm, if voting No-Lynch is always anti-town, then why is it even in the game?

A random lynch, that is a lynch with no reasons given or purely for the sake of lynching, is scummy or at least susceptable to scummy manipulatiopn.

In all honesty, I would be happy lynching anyone this first day,

is random, therefor anti-town. (Not necessarily scummy, but defiantely anti-town)

Is there a particular reason you don't want Pyrogen lynched (since he is leading)? What are your justifications for believing that Pyrogen is town. Can you agree that he has acted scummy?

As I have said, I'd prefer the Dondero/Justme situation resolved. For most of the time Pyro has had just one or two votes. (And one of them was by Justme)

Has Pyro been scummy. {Goes and reads back}
Confusing yes. Not helpful, yes I think so. Anti-town/scummy, I don't know. Too confusing probably. Worth resolving? Ok xvart I think you've convince me that there is much that can be learned from lynching Pyro.

Don't get me wrong, I still want to see Justme/Dondero resolved but I don't see that happening this "day", and the ghist of my arguements is a reasoned/targeted lynch is better than a no-lynch.

unvote justme, vote Pyrogen

[startransmission]

Startransmission - I was referring to your analysis posts - the last of which is here. At the time you say that fqads is likely town, you were still voting him from your initial random vote.

Ok, fair enough. But I don't see how my essentially ignoring my random vote constitutes me not being on top of my vote and where it's going.

By out of character, I mean that your vote surprised me. You hadn't really made an effort to accuse anyone of being scummy - look at how you discussed everyone in your analysis. The worst comment you had was that Pyro was hard to read. No real suspicion of anyone and then when the game slows down while waiting on a replacement, you decide to vote.

Yeah, well things were slowing down and after rereading (after my original analysis) I wanted to move my vote from the random stage and place it somewhere where it could do some good. Pyro was the obvious choice, I find him more than counter productive, and he went form active to not active. As you say, he seemed deliberately difficult.

What are all the scum moves that pyro is making?

Has made. The vote for a no-lynch, the self vote and and the constant contradictions (all apparently for the sake of conversation) are the scummy things that pop in mind. He was challenged on every point, and eventually just shuts up, which bothers me almost as much as the actions themselves.

[xvart]

Hmm, if voting No-Lynch is always anti-town, then why is it even in the game?

My bad, I should have said voting no lynch

on day one

is anti-town, which I did say in one of my first few posts.

As I have said, I'd prefer the Dondero/Justme situation resolved. For most of the time Pyro has had just one or two votes. (And one of them was by Justme)

I agree with this. Depending on what happens overnight I would be happy to pursue this; however, depending on how Pyrogen flips, we might have an obvious next target.

unvote justme, vote Pyrogen

I believe that's L-1. Time to claim Pyrogen?

xvart.

[Pyrogen]

Meh. If I die, its no great loss. I think I've helped town pretty well, by providing material for the future.

I also find startransmission slightly suspicious, for I am the only person he seems to be scum hunting. He also finds me suspicious for being active then inactive, which feels like the pot calling the kettle black. He is perhaps one of the more inactive semi-lurkers in this game.

Hiro seems to be actively lurking, as evidenced by his post 34 minutes after being called out. That is also pretty scummy. Despite my gut feeling, I think Annachie is probably the most suspicious in terms of actual evidence, so:

/unvote fgads

/vote Annachie

Why? I find it strange how quick Annachie would put me at L-1. The reason he gives for his vote seems weak at best, and yet he is still willing to let someone quickly hammer me. He has been in my sights for quite some time, but the quick 4th vote on me confirms enough for me. Nevertheless, this can also be attributed to the time constraint, as he has mentioned.

I still think fgads behavior is too peculiar, and the fact that he is an IC is only a minor point. He seems to go out of his way to not be "offending" anyone, a cautious play, which I personally find scummy.

If I had to guess a scum pair, I would say its Annachie and Startransmission. Star-T makes little mention of the things going against Annachie, and focuses solely on me (and not others). He even says Annachie reads town to him (a post waaay back, true), which I find strange since many others do not get such a read on Annachie.

[Pyrogen]

Since I may lose the ability to post at any time, I also like to point out that I'm the easiest target for the scum to pick for a day 1 lynch, since I've put myself out there the most. Several town also find me suspicious, and such I'm an easy target.

It seems that most see me as town but acting anti-town. I do not find that a good reason to kill me though.

If and When I am proven innocent, it would behoove the townsfolk to search for scumminess in those that have targeted me. This statement only applies obviously when I am lynched (which right now can happen anytime).

[starkmoon]

Just me was prodded 3 days ago, which means I will be looking for a replacement.
Checking and sending out any other prods that are needed.
Deadline is 25 hours.

[starkmoon]

just me
DarthRandal1138
HackerHuck 1
Annachie2 fhqwhgads, Pyrogen
xvart

Pyrogen 4 xvart, startransmission, DarthRandal1138, Annachie

hitogoroshi 1 HackerHuck
startransmission
fhqwhgads


Not Voting

hitogoroshi
just me

[hitogoroshi]

Well, again, it's been the same waffling back and worth. There are a lot of words being said but not that many fundamental points. Arguing with that just gives us a mess like we had with Pyrogen. But there are a few things that stick out at me:

I like HackerHuck's post. I don't agree with everything, but he's definitely doing good work shaking Dondero's stigma. Until this:

Why is being IC worthy of a vote and out of all the people not scumhunting, why him?

In fact, I'm going to Vote: Hitogoroshi for a similar reason.

So, you're calling him out for singling out someone specific and then you do the same? And to top it off, this comes right after complaining that we need to get our act together and vote together? Pot, meet kettle.

I think he meant that the vote should go to someone not posting content, and I've probably posted the least out of anyone here thus far. Again, as I said, I completely understand HackerHuck's rationale for voting for me.

In summary, I think there is an interesting relationship between Pyrogen and Annachie, and would be satisfied lynching either one. If we do not end up lynching either one, I hope that we investigate them further because I suspect at least one of them is mafia.

I didn't quite agree at first, but posts 215 and 218 strikes me as incredibly poor-form busing. If Pyro is scum, I'd probably be willing to lynch Anna tomorrow.

Also, regarding post 218:

Hiro seems to be actively lurking, as evidenced by his post 34 minutes after being called out.

*Hito. And that's not active lurking. Active lurking is posting a lot but avoiding content. An example of being in active lurking mode:

Secondly, what content is needed? I think I have two people pegged as mafia scum, have laid out my reasoning, and am yet to see anything to change my mind. So really I'm in reading/avoid prodding mode.

Reading/avoiding prodding mode is the definition of active lurking. I was not posting - passive lurking - though I was reading the topic - hence the quick response. I wasn't posting because it's quick and easy to read but it takes time to write up a post. I'm not at all defending it's a bad thing to lurk, but as I personally believe that active lurking is more scummy than passive lurking - and, as such, why I don't post babble if I can't take the time to post real content - so I want to clear that up.

And to reiterate, xvart is indeed right - a lynch, random or otherwise, is better than a no-lynch. There are some circumstances where a no-lynch can be helpful - notably, if the potential lynch-ees are un-CC'ed power roles - but in a newbie game with as much waffle as this, a lynch is exactly what we need to get some definitive information.

I'll be voting Pyro on deadline unless the bandwagon balance shifts to someone else.

[xvart]

Since I may lose the ability to post at any time

You can't post after you've reached the required lynch number? Or once the mod shuts the day down?

Meh. If I die, its no great loss. I think I've helped town pretty well, by providing material for the future.

So no claim?

xvart.

[Pyrogen]

Since I may lose the ability to post at any time

You can't post after you've reached the required lynch number? Or once the mod shuts the day down?

When mod shuts down the day.

Meh. If I die, its no great loss. I think I've helped town pretty well, by providing material for the future.

So no claim?

xvart.

Umm... sure... I think this is what I'm suppose to do.