Mafia 102: No-Frills Game Thread(Town wins!)

[bigmc109]

You made a very good argument for own lynch. Yes, what I put in quotation marks is exaggeration. There's a difference between putting something in quotation marks and in quote tags; putting it in quotation marks is meant to emphasize certain points you want to shine through, while quote tags are meant to be exact quotes.

I never said that

you said

you didn't want to play anymore, I said it was fairly clear from your posts that you didn't.

Your argument for your lynch is that you're inactive, have been playing scummy, and drag the town down. Your argument against it is "I'm town". You're not preaching the opposite, you're making a footnote about the opposite. I will admit, "lynch me so I can prove I'm town" has a different ring than I intended, but it was meant to emphasize the fact that your arguments against your own lynch are so small that they're insignifigant.

---------------------

Super Accurate* Vote Count(as of post 400):

RayFrost - 2(mask man, crypto)
Staple - 5(le Chat, hiphop, bigmc109, muh316, Pomegranate)
crypto - 1(X_~)
X_~ - 1(EtherealCookie)
Pomegranate - 1(SerialClergyman)
muh316 - 3(Empking, Sando, charter)
bigmc109 - 1(Staple)

Not Voting:Kaiveran, RayFrost

*Not guaranteed to be accurate.

[charter]

Sorry for not posting, I was unexpectadley V/LA since Friday night.

Here is my rationale behind voting Staple. There are two possibilities; he's either town or scum. It is also fairly clear that he doesn't want to play anymore based on his posts. I feel that if he were town and didn't want to play anymore, he would just replace out. But he could be scum acting like he doesn't want to play anymore, saying he's town and whatnot, trying to AtE and test us (by saying "go ahead lynch me). He is a brand new player, and I'd think AtE and "lynch me so I can prove I'm town" would be a very appealing strategies for newbie scum.

Yes, muh is looking pretty bad, and if Staple flips town, I'll definetely be voting muh tomorrow.

But because of what I just said, I'm really liking my Staple vote right now. If he were a townie acting this way, he would just replace out.

And fine I'll admit it....no lynch was a bad idea, you win charter.

This is making me question muh now. Now I'm wanting to vote you.

Lynching someone because they don't want to play, because they could be either town or scum, using ATE, or being brand new is a terrible idea. That was all the reasons you just listed there, not a one of them makes him more likely to be scum than town. None of them are good reasons for anything more than a pressure wagon, but you seem pretty intent on lynching him (then when he obvflipstown, muh).

I believe I will vote you.

unvote, vote bigmc

[crypto]

I swear, I've settled on a (lame) pic for real this time.

Reaction post coming.

[muh316]

crypto I liked your old avatar better. Whats your thoughts about mine


Now about the part that I said i wasnt bandwagoning with BMC about staples vote was because in the beginning of the game people were suspicious of me because I went with charter's plan to No lynch. So i said just to be on the safe side I said that I wasnt bandwagoning with BMC. Even if I didnt say that I guess I still would have had FOS's on me.

[Pomegranate]

Sorry for not posting, I was unexpectadley V/LA since Friday night.

Here is my rationale behind voting Staple. There are two possibilities; he's either town or scum. It is also fairly clear that he doesn't want to play anymore based on his posts. I feel that if he were town and didn't want to play anymore, he would just replace out. But he could be scum acting like he doesn't want to play anymore, saying he's town and whatnot, trying to AtE and test us (by saying "go ahead lynch me). He is a brand new player, and I'd think AtE and "lynch me so I can prove I'm town" would be a very appealing strategies for newbie scum.

Yes, muh is looking pretty bad, and if Staple flips town, I'll definetely be voting muh tomorrow.

But because of what I just said, I'm really liking my Staple vote right now. If he were a townie acting this way, he would just replace out.

And fine I'll admit it....no lynch was a bad idea, you win charter.

This is making me question muh now. Now I'm wanting to vote you.

Lynching someone because they don't want to play, because they could be either town or scum, using ATE, or being brand new is a terrible idea. That was all the reasons you just listed there, not a one of them makes him more likely to be scum than town. None of them are good reasons for anything more than a pressure wagon, but you seem pretty intent on lynching him (then when he obvflipstown, muh).

I believe I will vote you.

unvote, vote bigmc

I agree with Bigmac. He's voting Staple because he's sees it as a hypothetical strategy that Staple could be using. That said, it's not based off of him specifically using AtE, or being brand new. He (and I) see it as a combination of things that he's using to avoid being lynched. I'm happy with my Staple vote.

[crypto]

374, crypto, muh is suspicious because he added the "I'm not bandwagoning" clause after his vote.

Right. My point was that Hiphop didn't highlight that and instead concentrated on something that wasn't scummy.

---

BMC, you don't think it's possible that Staple might be newbie town, and that he's reluctant to replace out because it would look bad to replace out of one of his first games on the site?

That said, scum who've lost interest in a given game are probably more inclined to lurk rather than request a replacement, because lurking benefits scum (when they suck at everything else). It plugs the flow if information.

if Staple flips town, I'll definitely be voting muh tomorrow

1. Fixed. People who misspell

definitely

should be flogged. Publicly.

2. Less importantly, this quote

could

be a Freudian slip. I know I'm always worried that I'm going to take a shell through the forehead each night. And that seeps into my posts— "

If I don't kick the bucket tonight

, I'll definitely be voting Muh tomorrow." BMC didn't take that into account, but he may have just overlooked it. *shrug* Probably null.

---

You are lying with your quote. I said that I can understand why you guys would want to lynch me, not that you should. The 2 quotes you made; "go ahead lynch me", and "lynch me so I can prove I'm town" are both false, and untrue.

Did it

really

not occur to you that he was paraphrasing? I'm seriously questioning the authenticity of this misunderstanding.

On the other hand, upon rereading Staple's posts, BMC's paraphrasing was inaccurate. Staple didn't explicitly express disinterest in the game.

Never said that anyone must lynch me, in fact contrary to that I have been preaching the opposite.

No, you have not been preaching the opposite. Your play has been very passive, noncommittal, and lazily sarcastic, and you convey hardly any—if any at all—distaste for your own lynch:

I guess you guys are correct in lynching me, since I know I've been playing scummy. I will probably only cause more confusion throughout the game because of my scummy behavior these first few pages. You guys also do not lose much by lynching since I have not been contributing at all.

Think the only way I could defend myself at this moment is to say that I will be more active from here on in, and I am a townie so it does not benefit the town to lynch me.

Crypto, I feel you are a bit erratic and all over the place. You seem to be a bit paranoid. Everything I have said is true. How is it an appeal to emotion when I say exactly what is true.

Is it a lie when I say that I am a good vote because I have not been contributing and I have come across as scummy?

@pom: Because I'm a villa.

You don't know this for sure so voting for me is perfectly justifiable.

@Muh:

God I must be the worst scum ever.

All of Staple's attacks, except for his initial swipe at X_~, have been counteroffensive. He accused me of being "a bit erratic and all over the place . . . a bit paranoid." Then he threw up a semi-OMGUS vote against BMC at the bottom of the last page.

---

I don't really get Charter's beef with BMC. BMC laid out the possibilities and pointed out which was more likely. In fact, Staple comes out of this exchange looking even worse than before. But I'm unnerved by Pom's willingness to vote for him. Pom is extremely scummy, and busing on day 1 with this seemingly town-stacked setup would be suicide. So if RayFrost redeems himself I'll have to choose between Pom and Staple.

[charter]

Why is it more likely this strategy (I don't think it is, seems pretty genuine) is coming from scum instead of town? Why can't he be town and not want to be lynched?

[crypto]

Why is it more likely this strategy (I don't think it is, seems pretty genuine) is coming from scum instead of town? Why can't he be town and not want to be lynched?

There are two sides to it, as far as I'm concerned:

1. Inexperienced
   scum are more likely than
   experienced
   scum to dig themselves into a hole and then make emotional appeals to get out. So it's logical to consider that as a major possibility for Staple as he is a relatively new player.
   
2. Inexperienced
   townies
   are more likely than inexperienced
   scum
   to make some attempt at scum hunting. Inexperienced scum are more prone to lurking, OMGUS, and appeals to emotion, all of which Staple has committed.

Look at Staple's other game. It's ongoing, which means we can't go into any detail and we don't know Staple's alignment, but his play there is immensely more proactive/pro-town than it is here. That's a huge warning sign if you ask me.

[Staple]

Actually, I am also a suspect in the other game. And I have also been inactive during the same stages this game was on, except for maybe one or two one-liner posts. Just to confirm the doubt as to whether or not I am a new player; this is my second game on mafiascum, running concurrent with the one which crypto was referring. I have however played a LOT of mafia, either on forums, or irl.

And like crypto said, even if I was not interested in this game anymore, I do not feel like replacing out since this is one of my first games here. However I do want to play.

[hiphop]

And like crypto said, even if I was not interested in this game anymore, I do not feel like replacing out since this is one of my first games here. However I do want to play.

Why do you want to play Staple? Is it because you want to read how other people play? You can read any current game and read as it develops without being part of the game. Is it because you want to hide from the town and win as scum? I have news for you, you are now doing a great job. Is it because you want to find scum and win as town? Prove it. What is your plan to find scum? As a new perspective to the game, I am sure that you must have had some idea when you joined this game to how to find scum. Actions speak louder than words, so show us.

[crypto]

This just in: I hate to rain on the BMC versus Staple parade, but I'm totally up for lynching Pomegranate whenever you guys are ready (ideally after we deal with RayFrost).

Reasons:

• Her posts in general. They feel mad scummy.
  
• Lots of fluff. She made only one post of content (iso. 4) before I started badgering her.
  
• Bandwagon on Staple (iso. 15). Doubly suspicious given she's done little to no other scum hunting.
  
• Interrogation of Mask Man (iso. 18–20). The contradiction in MM's post was not even close to a scum tell. Pom blew it out of proportion, and then dropped it after MM posted his second explanation. Amazingly, his original post looks even scummier when read in light of his explanations, so I find it weird that Pom would let it go so quickly. The whole sequence strikes me as a very contrived attempt at scum hunting by Pomegranate, homing in on an easy, unimportant subject and then dropping it in the blink of an eye.
  
• Again referring to the bandwagon in iso. 15, second part of her post (the part following the second quote). Pom: "I just saw this(, catching up). Soooo scummy." (Referring to Staple's request—"Please ask me some questions so I can prove to you that I am in fact a townie"—which SerialClergyman attacked.) Pom didn't notice Staple's scummy move until after SC quoted it. I
  could
  be wrong here, but I'd be willing to bet that she didn't notice it because she isn't in the mindset of a scum-hunting townie. This is consistent with the rest of Pom's case against Staple. None of her points are her own; they're all piggybacking off other players' observations.
  
• Finally, meta. Pom said she lurks a lot on day 1, partly because she struggles with scum hunting early on and partly because there are so many players in a large game. But in her other completed large game, she was quite proactive. Skim her in isolation: Mafia 100.

Other stuff. BMC/Staple/Charter, I'm really happy for you; I'ma let you finish. But RayFrost is lurking like hell. I'd appreciate it if we could get a wagon him, and in the meantime you guys can continue to do your thing.

[Scigatt]

Sorry, Mod. I was voting for Staple.

That's alright

Also, I'm replacing X_~, but not until after the move.

Additionally, le Chat and charter will be prodded after the move.

Instead of charter, I'll be prodding RayFrost.

[mask man]

I'll come back to life after the move FYI.
Glade somebody noticed my absence.

[charter]

There are two sides to it, as far as I'm concerned:

1. Inexperienced
   scum are more likely than
   experienced
   scum to dig themselves into a hole and then make emotional appeals to get out. So it's logical to consider that as a major possibility for Staple as he is a relatively new player.

The thing is, he didn't dig a hole. There were like three people digging a hole for him.

[*]Inexperienced

townies

are more likely than inexperienced

scum

to make some attempt at scum hunting. Inexperienced scum are more prone to lurking, OMGUS, and appeals to emotion, all of which Staple has committed.[/list]Look at Staple's other game. It's ongoing, which means we can't go into any detail and we don't know Staple's alignment, but his play there is immensely more proactive/pro-town than it is here. That's a huge warning sign if you ask me.

This really isn't true. It sounds like it should be true, but it really isn't. I'm not reading any other games, can barely keep up with this one.

This just in: I hate to rain on the BMC versus Staple parade, but I'm totally up for lynching Pomegranate whenever you guys are ready (ideally after we deal with RayFrost).

Yeah, Pomegranate has looked pretty scummy. I really don't have a problem with RayFrost like you do, though. Him saying nothing makes him a lot less scummy than a lot of the players in this game.

People I'd love to lynch, in vague order:
hiphop
Kaiveran
bigmc109
Pomegranate
X_~

I also think the sooner one of them gets lynched, the better.

[hiphop]

I also think the sooner one of them gets lynched, the better.

why?

[muh316]

Mod is the deadline October 30?

[charter]

I also think the sooner one of them gets lynched, the better.

why?

Because this day has been terribly unproductive so far and speedy wagons will rectify that.

[bigmc109]

Sorry for not posting, I was unexpectadley V/LA since Friday night.

Here is my rationale behind voting Staple. There are two possibilities; he's either town or scum. It is also fairly clear that he doesn't want to play anymore based on his posts. I feel that if he were town and didn't want to play anymore, he would just replace out. But he could be scum acting like he doesn't want to play anymore, saying he's town and whatnot, trying to AtE and test us (by saying "go ahead lynch me). He is a brand new player, and I'd think AtE and "lynch me so I can prove I'm town" would be a very appealing strategies for newbie scum.

Yes, muh is looking pretty bad, and if Staple flips town, I'll definetely be voting muh tomorrow.

But because of what I just said, I'm really liking my Staple vote right now. If he were a townie acting this way, he would just replace out.

And fine I'll admit it....no lynch was a bad idea, you win charter.

This is making me question muh now. Now I'm wanting to vote you.

Lynching someone because they don't want to play, because they could be either town or scum, using ATE, or being brand new is a terrible idea. That was all the reasons you just listed there, not a one of them makes him more likely to be scum than town. None of them are good reasons for anything more than a pressure wagon, but you seem pretty intent on lynching him (then when he obvflipstown, muh).

I believe I will vote you.

unvote, vote bigmc

ALL of them are good reasons when taken in combination. Add to that the OMGUS vote on me, and I see a strategy/playstyle much more likely to be used by scum than town. btw, when I said he could be scum or town, I think it was pretty clear that I didn't mean it was a 50/50 chance. I think he's scum.

[charter]

I don't see how any of them, either in combination or alone, makes him more likely to be scum. I think the opportunistic votes he quickly garnered make him very likely to be town, and those voting him very likely to be scum.

[charter]

Meant to ask you to explain why these things mean he is scum, as well, please.

[Scigatt]

Mod is the deadline October 30?

There's no set deadline as of yet. I'll let you know when there is one.

[bigmc109]

Why is lynching someone because they don't want to play a bad idea? Because if he was a townie who truly didn't want to play, he'd replace out. If he's scum using that as a strategy, which he probably is because he has not replaced out, he'd stay in and tell us to lynch him using reverse psychology (if I tell them to lynch me, they won't). You can't honestly tell me that the two posts I pointed out aren't scummy.

When I said he could be either town or scum, I was trying to get across the 2nd sentence of this post.

Using AtE is suspicious because it means he has no other arguments besides "I'm town guysssss." Notice how he completely stopped suspecting X_~ (actively, at least) and started suspecting me as soon as I got into this with him. That's OMGUS if I've ever seen it.

As far as being new goes, I can't really defend that point anymore since he said (keyword, said) he isn't new. I originally meant a newbie scum would be prone to use AtE and reverse psychology.

[charter]

None of that is any more than weak suspicion on your part. I suppose you can keep clinging to a staple vote, but that's not convincing at all. Staple wagon is pointless.

A wagon on one of:
hiphop
Kaiveran
bigmc109
Pomegranate
X_~

Would be amazing.

[bigmc109]

Staple Post-by-Post Analysis

0-1: Confirming posts.
2: Attacks X for being unhelpful, but admits he has been too. Says that everything is already resolved everytime he logs in. Says anyone who supports no lynch is suspicious.
3: Makes a valid argument against no lynching.
4: Quotes le_chat and corrects his accusation, points out that le_chat did the exact same thing he (falsely) accused staple of doing.
5: Displays a poor understanding of the RVS.
6-7: Talking about how he'll post thoughts soon.
8: Says he is unable to post thoughts, and goes on an "I'm town, I'm town"-type panic attack despite having only 2 votes on him.
9: Says that he guesses we're correct in lynching him, and that he's dragging the game down because of his inactivity and scumminess. Says we don't lose much by lynching him, then does a COMPLETE 180° and says we shouldn't lynch him because he's town. Then attacks mask_man for basically the same things he just accused himself of (minus the inactive part).
10: Says crypto seems paranoid, and says everything he says is true. This includes both him saying he's a townie AND saying that he's a good vote.
11: Says he's a vanilla (I think), then he says he must be the worst scum ever. No, I'm not using that last part as a reason.
12: Says I misquoted him and OMGUS-votes me.
13: Claims he isn't new to Mafia, just this site. Then says he wouldn't find a replacement if he didn't want to play, but says that doesn't matter because he does.

I will admit Staple's first few posts don't come across as very scummy (I know I said in my PBPA before they did, but I think I was a little OMGUS-y from the no lynch thing), but ever since that they've had scum written all over them. How the hell do you not find him scummy? Defend your position with more than "the bandwagon seems scum-driven".

[bigmc109]

None of that is any more than weak suspicion on your part. I suppose you can keep clinging to a staple vote, but that's not convincing at all. Staple wagon is pointless.

Everything since his 8th post has reeked of scumminess.