Newbie 844 - Game Over (Scum Win)

[startransmission]

I'll be posting either later tonight or tomorrow; I've been swamped at work.

xvart.

I'm in the same boat. I'll respond to Hacker and xvarts questions as soon as I'm rested and sober.

[starkmoon]

I am back!

All moved in and getting settled. I'm still going to be a little swamped with unpacking everything... My (alleged) dining room is full of boxes still. Just poke me in PM or in thread if prods are needed. Will get an up-to-date votecount done after the kids are in bed this evening.

[xvart]

I would also like to hear what the IC and SE have to say about Annachie's reasoning based on the replacement stuff, from a learning experience perspective because I have a hard time holding kill-kill and hackerhuck to the same standard as the previous players. How do you guys typically handle these situations?

Dondero did basicially nothing before being replaced, so I don't think there's anything that Hackerhuck COULD be held responsible for. As for justme, we can use his D1 actions at least to some extent, but if you want to talk about those you better use supporting quotes and be clear why it's an alignment tell and not a quirk of the old person.

Speaking of which. Annachie, please list the three scummiest things about kill-kill/justme (with the caveat from the previous paragraph).

Thanks, DarthRanda

L

. I figured as much, but thought it would be a good time to ask. I also think your question at the end to Annachie is a solid one, and I eagerly await his response.

In the meantime, any comments on why you were misrepresenting me as having the "first vote on the eventual mislynch" of Pyro?

I misread--I thought the other two had unvoted at some point. I suppose this is what you get when you read a thread late at night . I apologize, and withdraw the statement.

Way to quote snip.

Annachie is a little less scummy in my eyes

. Although he's also being quite timid in his actions and not scumhunting, I really got a good town feel from this post:

Man, there is something about this thread that seems to be preventing me from reading things correctly. My apologies.

So is this developing pattern of misinformation and out of context quoting scummy behavior or really just scum-like town posting, as you so elegantly posted in your first post?

While I may not share the same reasons as Annachie for your vote, you are creeping up on my vote list pretty quickly.

FoS: Kill-kill

Also eagerly awaiting startransmission's thoughts.

xvart.

[Annachie]

You know, I'm not sure I could list the 3 scummiest things about Just Me. It's mostly a sucession of little things. That first(?) post worrying about waiting for a eplacement, and the ... unusual ... answers that resulted. The disapeerance too.
A bunch of little things that I'd like to really see resolved in a fairly permanant way.

Kill-Kill's "I'm a scummy player" is a definate flag though, so that's one.

The many misreads he claims would be a two. But a small two

Three would be having a player and his replacement both hitting the "Scum radar" for people, well for me at least. For different reasons too.



I'd lump StartTransmission a definate "one" with frequent long absences and dodgy explanations.

Not sure of any others. Nothing really stands out

If I can ask, do people think that fhqwhgads was ganked because he was the IC?

[xvart]

startransmission

- what do you think of the fhqwhgads NK?

Not much, I don't usually dwell on NKs unless there is a good reason to. Scum often target ICs, but I do usually take a gander at who the person NKed was most involved with. In fgads case it would be Pyro, and that gives me little to work with. If it says anything I would imagine that the fact that scum went after the IC may indicate that they aren't getting alot of pressure from anybody else.

If I can ask, do people think that fhqwhgads was ganked because he was the IC?

If the reasons fhqwgads was NK'ed are only based on him being the IC, that would suggest that he was eliminated because he is experienced, so eliminating him would be good for the mafia if the mafia were a noobies. Otherwise, from my notes I only have two votes that fhqwgads placed: Annachie and Dondero (HackerHuck).

xvart.

[HackerHuck]

I'll simply say that there's usually not a lot of value in pondering why the scum selected a certain person for their NK. I also don't really see it as helping the scum either, so feel free to discuss. Newbie games are a little different though, because scum though processes aren't always the same as they are with a more experienced group.

This isn't game specific, but it could be a valuable learning experience. For those of you debating the topic, answer me this...
You will eventually be scum at some point in your career (if you aren't already ). So when you are scum, what would you look for when making your night kill selection?


I will second Annachie's point about Kill-Kill. If someone claims that they always act scummy, it's a definite red-flag. If you're aware of your own behaviour, you can always modify it.

[hitogoroshi]

I'd like to point out that deliberation about the nk is basicially null if the IC is killed. A lot of newbies like to go for the IC n1 because they don't really have an idea who to kill and the fact that there's only one IC, who is supposedly the best player, appeals to them. This is common enough that most players know about it, which means that many experienced players also go for the IC in order to supply a minimum of information. So basicially if the IC is killed, it's usually a null tell, and if the IC survives it's a slight scum tell .

[xvart]

This isn't game specific, but it could be a valuable learning experience. For those of you debating the topic, answer me this...
You will eventually be scum at some point in your career (if you aren't already ). So when you are scum, what would you look for when making your night kill selection?

Well based on some of the comments already, as a noobie I would probably avoid the IC for the first NK as to put them in a bad spot, since apparently the IC dies the first night a lot. Otherwise, I would probably off someone who came after me (or my scum friends) slightly during the previous day but not really anything of substance, so there couldn't be a pattern.

xvart.

[xvart]

In the meantime, any comments on why you were misrepresenting me as having the "first vote on the eventual mislynch" of Pyro?

I misread--I thought the other two had unvoted at some point. I suppose this is what you get when you read a thread late at night . I apologize, and withdraw the statement.

Way to quote snip.

Annachie is a little less scummy in my eyes

. Although he's also being quite timid in his actions and not scumhunting, I really got a good town feel from this post:

Man, there is something about this thread that seems to be preventing me from reading things correctly. My apologies.

As they say: fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. The more I think about it, the more scummy this is and deserves more than a simple FoS before I shame myself.

Vote: Kill-kill

xvart.

[xvart]

Vote: Kill-kill

xvart.

[DarthRandal1138]

My apologies for my protracted absence from this game. I've had a lot going on at home and at work, and probably should have listed myself as V/LA. That said, I don't want to get replaced out in my first-ever game, so I'm going to try to be more attentive from here on out.

I'm *really* not liking Kill-kill's play so far. He replaces a scummy-ish lurker (not really his fault), and then proceeds to play the, "Don't worry if I act scummy, it's just how I come off," card, followed by fairly blatant misrepresentations of both myself and HackerHuck. Any one of those things I could write off as errors, but taken together, I don't like what I see.

Vote: Kill-kill

As Hacker pointed out, if you're aware that your normal town play comes off as scummy, you should make an effort to change it. Otherwise, you are doing a disservice to both the town and yourself. It's far too easy for scum to hide behind "lolplaystyle" excuses. If you're town, you need to avoid scummy actions, since scummy town players only cause confusion and mislynches, as was ably demonstrated by Pyrogen Day 1.

[HackerHuck]

While I'm enjoying the growing wagon on Kill-Kill, I'd really like to hear from Startransmission. I'd like to believe that he's had a chance to sober up by now...

[starkmoon]

Kill-kill 3 Annachie, xvart, DarthRandal1138
DarthRandal1138
HackerHuck
Annachie
xvart
hitogoroshi
startransmission 1 HackerHuck

Notvoting

Kill-kill
startransmission
hitogoroshi

Prods going out

[xvart]

FYI: I just changed my avatar.

xvart.

[HackerHuck]

Just noticed that Kill-kill is at L-1. Let's not get hasty here since prods just went out.

[xvart]

Let's not get hasty here since prods just went out.

Yeah, I don't think we have to worry about anyone around here being too hasty...

xvart.

[HackerHuck]

I realise that it's been quiet here lately, but I didn't want someone getting prodded and then throwing on a vote without knowing that he's at lynch -1.

[hitogoroshi]

Yeah, I'm never quite sure how to get these cycles to end. You need something definitive to comment on but something definitive is exactly what you can't get when the pace is so glacial.

Tempted to just hammer kill-kill to make something happen.

[HackerHuck]

Why don't you just join me and vote for Startransmission? Competing wagons can be a good way to stir up more discussion.

Going back to my typical day 2 newbie analysis... Do you think that it's likely that Kill-Kill and I are the two scum?

[Annachie]

Why don't you just join me and vote for Startransmission? Competing wagons can be a good way to stir up more discussion.

Going back to my typical day 2 newbie analysis... Do you think that it's likely that Kill-Kill and I are the two scum?

Well, you are the one trying to hold off the final vote on him, or steer it a different way.

[xvart]

I'm satisfied with my vote until we hear from either Kill-kill or startransmission, preferably both, and preferably ASAP.

xvart.

[HackerHuck]

Why don't you just join me and vote for Startransmission? Competing wagons can be a good way to stir up more discussion.

Going back to my typical day 2 newbie analysis... Do you think that it's likely that Kill-Kill and I are the two scum?

Well, you are the one trying to hold off the final vote on him, or steer it a different way.

Good point, but my selection of Startransmission doesn't mean that I don't think Kill-kill is scum. Since I know that there is scum on the wagon, I can focus my attention there. If he [hito] can agree that it's unlikely I'm scum with Kill-kill, then it's more likely that he's willing to look at my case on Startransmission. I'm also trying to make sure that we don't hurry toward a lynch right now with the limited amount of discussion that we've had so far this day.

[startransmission]

After some consideration,

Vote: Kill-Kill

[xvart]

After some consideration,

Vote: Kill-Kill

Well I know who I'm voting for tomorrow.

xvart.

[startransmission]

After some consideration,

Vote: Kill-Kill

Well I know who I'm voting for tomorrow.

xvart.

Why is my vote a problem? My reasons only echo those already brought up. Just because I provided the hammer doesn't mean anything.