Newbie 865 - Game over!

[RPG*Twilight]

First off, welcome everyone! I am one of the SE's here. Glad to be in the game. Kingdavid pretty much ran over everything, but let it be known you have another person to ask if need be.

On to the questions.

RPG*Twilight (SE): Do you think that different questions to everyone or the same question to everyone would be more beneficial?

Interesting question. I actually prefer to see the same question asked. So I do like the last question. As long as not everyone rehashes answers, that is. Having multiple questions for multiple participants is also good, however, to really get differing viewpoints on differing levels. So its kind of a moot question, if you ask me. Kinda washes each other out.

Pretty much, if you can make discussion in the first 24 hours, something is done right.

And one final question for everyone: What is your view on No-Lynching? Is their ever a time where No-Lynching would be better than a lynch?

I dont support a no-lynch. It is just way too easy for scum this way. Situation: We agree to a no lynch, someone gets NK'ed... now what? We had no information as to why that person was NK'ed, because there was no discussion, no bussing, no bandwagons, no contradictions. All of that is important going into day 2. (and day 1 for that matter.)

Discussion in day 1 is the foundation to the rest of the game, it is imperative that discussion is had, or day 2 will become day 1, with one less townie. That is no bueno in my eyes.

I don't like you anymore, You made me lose the game.

What? Explain why you said this. It appears to be in jest, but it just sticks out wierdly in the rest of the post.

What is your experience in playing mafia (either online or offline)?

Well howdy kingdavid! Was going to give you a proper welcome, but decided to wait until I got to this question. It's good to be playing in a game with you again.

As for your question. I have played several games of mafia. This is my third on this site, and I have played several games with my clan both on our forums and IRL. So I do have some experience under my belt.

[RPG*Twilight]

...but if you're a newbie there is not enough information for meta...

You did read the sentence before that, right? And to further answer the question, if you have one game, you have meta. Is it better to have more then one? Yes, of course. But one will suffice. And it looks like, if I remember right, that this is not everyone's first game.

Rule wise, games with no lynch are much more interesting. It does often result in sudden bandwagons when the deadline approaches though. But a bandwagon is better than a no lynch.

This strikes me as odd. I think what his question is referring to is would a majority of you be willing to do a no-lynch. I dont see how there would be some for a no-lynch and THEN go do bandwagoning. It's really an all-or-nothing kind of deal, the no-lynch. It kind of seems like either A) you're indifferent about it. or B) You dont want to look like you support the no-lynch, but you do. I cant tell. But that seems to be a pretty ambiguous statement. Could you clarify? Especially when you say "A bandwagon is better than a no lynch." Because we're talking about the vote, not the bandwagon. It just seems a bit odd.

[RPG*Twilight]

I was saying that from the games i've seen with the no lynch rule, when the deadline approaches people tend to bandwagon to quickly get a lynch, and that, in my opinion, a deadline bandwagon is better than a no lynch.

I like games with the no lynch rule, because they are more interesting in my opinion. However, a no lynch should be avoided under all circumstances.

Understand now? Games with 'no lynch' rule = good. Allowing no lynch to occur = bad.

Makes sense. I had no idea to which "no-lynch" you were referring to, however. Trackers, or Elmo's. That's where I was confused.

Going with kingdavid, it's great to see everyone post and therefore no replacements needed right away. I think that may be a first in a game i've been in... or seen for that matter.

As far as that question: Would you rather be town or scum? I agree with kingdavid that it can be a tricky question, gauging on the person's... "agenda"... but the question being asked early in the game warrants no worry... yet.

[RPG*Twilight]

if i believe someone to be scum then they're lynch candidate #1, if i just don't know who the scum is, from what I've seen, it seems to me that lurker lynching is probably the better option. In short, if I believe you to be scum, I'll do my best to get you lynched, if I don't know,

or don't agree with the case on anybody, I would prefer to lynch a lurker.

That bolded part of the quote strikes me as odd. "Anybody" is a vast generalization of... well, everybody. That would include lurkers. If you are preferring to lynch a lurker, isnt that a case, that he's lurking? I just find this a bit contradictory. Sounds like your just going to use any old reason in the book to get someone lynched.

RPG- What do you mean by "agenda"?

I mean that it could be part of thier ploy for later on in the game to look pro-town. They could say "I love being town, blah blah blah, this is what I do" and do it, while being scum.

[RPG*Twilight]

Is there a reason you're isolating the most wordy of posters so far, RPG?

1) the wordy posts = chance for discussion. I see things that are a bit contradictory and the like, I want information on it.

2) Though he spearheaded the questions... I want to know why he's asking some of them... again, that's why I said the "agenda" line.

These questions were great to start off with, but it's now stalling the game, so i'm trying to start discussion. What, are you opposed to that?

[RPG*Twilight]

Asking a question of you wouldn't really be an action of someone opposed to discussion, now would it? In all seriousness, I realize it's the beginning of the game, and there's next to diddly to go on. But, like you, I'm looking for a little exposition on what little there is.

There are differing types of questions, though, PE. Yours almost seems like you want me to back off of someone. I am just putting my opinion on something. If your question is "just for discussion", then so be it. But it doesnt really strike me as that.

[RPG*Twilight]

So much to answer... and I will when I return tonight. (Latest tomorrow morning)

[RPG*Twilight]

*looks at watch*

Hmm, looks like it is about time for random accusation!

RPG Twilight

From the very beginning (and yes, we are still at the beginning), twilight has been questioning a lot of things.

Too many things, in my opinion.

I understand that the point of the game is to question things, but some of these questions were a stretch. His posts are thick with paranoia for this stage of the game. He could be trying a little too hard to appear town.

The bolded part: Does that not sound paranoid to anyone else?

Hmm. You know, it's easy to make blanket statements. "Some of these questions were a stretch" Really? where? And how? I ask a question that I feel needs to be answered.

I only question what I want answered. I believe that's how that works. If it's scaring you that I ask questions, arent you the one who's paranoid? You know, it's really interesting that you say i'm trying too hard to appear town. Because I think you're aiming that statement at the wrong person.

That said, Tracker is almost too scared to get out of "beginning" question mode. At least I answer questions and move on, but seriously, a second round of pretty much "beginning" questions? And on topics that mean very little to this specific game. My favorite role is townie, and I dont have a least favorite because I like the challenge that brings about with each role. Wow, did that help you get some much needed dirt on me? I'm happy to answer any question, but there comes a time when enough is enough and the more you start asking "beginning" questions the scummier you look. Start scumhunting, find things from the previous questions. We dont need to play Jeopardy here. It's one thing to ask start-up questions, it's another to make that your whole day 1 activity.

Ask follow up questions.

Thats what i'm doing, and it seems to be scaring a couple of you. Which is noted.

You're the only one doing anything to search for scum, so I'm questioning why you're focusing on tracker.

Well, if you recall, I did get on Gayle. (Before this post.) But, like I said about tracker, these first go around questions were nice, but we really dont need the second batch. That, in it of itself, is a bit shady if you ask me. I dont understand why i'm the only one picking apart the text here, we are reading the same thing, correct?

I find to great that RPG is questioning things, even if he's wrong, but conversation's conversation and we should take it where we can get it.

That's a nice twist on Gayle's words. Pretty much pulling out the paranoia card, again. Interesting. Again, noted.

however if you would rather let the scum have a free kill.... I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

Um. Of course not. Where did you get this from? It's nice to see that you're putting words in my mouth. I'm trying to move past the molasses that is your questions and pick apart the text from the answers from the first batch, which you really havent done yourself. Quite interesting. Maybe you should yourself pay attention to the answers people have. It'll do wonders. The only way we'll get past the "majority not finding scum" is if we start, oh I don't know, scumhunting. And it seems you're trying to deflect by asking even more questions that, like I said, have nothing to do with helping us find scum.

That being said, i'm going to put a little pressure on tracker. See if it cant get him to at least talk a bit.

Vote: Tracker

[RPG*Twilight]

so unfortunate news.... I got hit with the flu bug and will be hopped up on drugs for the next couple of days... so I'll be V/LA till probably wedensday. Thanks.

[RPG*Twilight]

Finally back! Man, that flu really kicked my ass for 4 days. But i'm here.

Let's start here.

As far as RPG goes, you may have something there... I played with him in Newbie 826 and he played pretty much the same way that he is playing so far, and turned out to be scum.

Here's a weak vote based on meta to apply pressure.

vote: RPG*Twilight

Right now RPG's my highest.

That is true, we do have some previous experience. But you have me completely baffled by this. Did I really play the same way in that game as in this? I still have that game on my watched topics, and I re-read all of what I wrote. I got prodded, had short sentences, didnt even talk to my scum-buddy (who got killed in D1, which I wasnt entirely active on.) Which, if you'll see, is exactly how i'm not playing now. So where in that game is there really a whole lot of similarities to this one? That being my first mafia game, and being scum, was pretty unnerving. If anything, David, i'm playing completely opposite, i'm actually scumhunting. This makes me pretty weary of you, trying to use my meta that is the complete antithesis of what i'm playing now, to make your case. And that, and only that, is the reason i'm highest on your list? Again, baffling.

On the topic of tracker:

This early in the game, it is difficult to get firm reads on people, and I think people are ignoring the obvious possibility of: He's just asking questions.

So was I. So why did you ask me why I was isolating him (with questions) about his questions? His questions, in all actuality, are less impactful to the game then mine. I'm wondering WHY he's continuing to ask questions when we are clearly trying to move past that and decipher what we have already. His questions would be impactful if they were on page 1. He already did that. Those are page 1 questions. Not page 3 "I have nothing to add and I'm scared to move on so lets revert back to what we did and I can hide" questions. How does that not scream of hiding in a hole to you?

I think it's easier for scum to jump on in support of something negative against another player rather than make their own case. Why? That's what I did until the 3rd day, and I won. People could be genuinely finding tracker seriously scummy, but on the other hand it is an easy excuse for scum to latch on to at this point.

I agree. But in order, right now, for us to get any movement past this, we needed to break free of those questions. That's why I did it. My hope is to see people's reactions to what other people say about tracker, because it's like a domino effect. We can see how people stack up against tracker, and I, at least, can adjust accordingly. If I see that people are just along for the ride, and not picking out other peoples' texts when there's inconsistencies and contradictions, then we have an issue. Day 1 is a slow process and I am just trying to move this along and see what we can uncover from our players.

Getting 'in the way' of RPG's questions:
RPG may see me as another target, but I doubt he'd drop his suspicions because another person asked him a question.

I actually dont. That first paragraph you wrote in this text i've deciphered is screaming pretty pro-town to me. But you are right, people ask me questions, I will answer.

On to tracker.

dirt? this wasn't about dirt. What do I need dirt for? This was about gaining insight into your thoughts. The fact that you say townie tells me that you probably have an analitical mind. You enjoy decidphering people's posts to find discrepancies that signal scum. correct?

Correct. But where does this help you? Anyone can be analytical here. To play this game I believe we all have to have an analytical mind somewhat. I still dont understand how this is going to help you with any case you have, it really, and always has seemed, liked a stall tactic.

did you fail to notice that half the town is AWOL? These questions are useful in the sense of getting players involved.

They werent awol in the first set of questions. That wasnt enough? Which leads me to this:

So the questions I've been asking don't count as follow-up questions?

... No. Those were just like those questionnaires you take for a job, where they ask for the same question 3 different ways. You werent really out to gain information. And if seeing that one has an "analytical mind" is going to get you to catch scum, then you need to sharpen your scumhunting skills.

just because I haven't chosen to announce my findings to the world doesn't mean I don't have any.

Yeah, because you need findings first. Like I said, those questions didnt help. If you have findings, then prove it. Why would you wait? Because you have a third batch of questions that you need to "gather more findings"? Or as i'd like to call it, hiding in a hole.

Show us your findings.

Why would you hold out findings if your town?

And by the way, Tracker, I think I explained what I meant by paranoid. It just seems like I caught you, that's all. Now you're a bit scared.

BTW, I realize a lot of my post has already been touched on by other people.

An interesting little ditty here. Just wanted to note it, but it seems a bit odd he had to outright mention it before he got any heat for it. You know, stop it before the snowball rolls in. I'll see if he contributes more.

Okay, done with the wall of text. If I missed anything, let me know and i'll answer it, but I kind of have to blame it on it being 5:15 in the morning.

[RPG*Twilight]

.
So are you admitting to talking to your scum buddy this time around?

Not at all. I was just giving you every variable possible. I can definitely see where you could get that. But no. I still have no idea how I played very similar to that game at all. little bits here and there, possible. But if you do an ISO on me on that thread and this thread. I probably have close to 3/4 of the posts, with more content, on this one then that one.

But again, to answer this question. No.

[RPG*Twilight]

Good. I imploy you all to look into that. At the very least, it brings up discussions.

I'll answer all questions.

[RPG*Twilight]

But, to clear things up, those use of words were intended to show my inactivity for THAT game. Not anything else. But good looking into it, Kingdavid, but the context for which you find it is inaccurate.

I only said that because I never really interacted with anyone that game beyond the hello's on day 1. Actually, I dont believe I really interacted a whole bunch until day 3.

As you can tell, i've interacted MUCH more on this day 1 then in previous.

[RPG*Twilight]

Question to RPG: When you say you didn't talk to your scumbuddy Day 1, are you talking about in game guidance or pre-game talk?

Either. I was like a deer caught in the headlights that game. I had no idea what to do, so I pretty much kept silent the first two days.

[RPG*Twilight]

RPG – 14 posts

1 Q to everyone, No NL allowed, uses word agenda in completely confusing way, a lurking case is still a case, valid point, overstates lurker stance, mentions agenda line, didn't even talk to his scumbuddy day 1 in his other game, we have info, so what?

So pretty much your case against me is only things that you find confusing AND that I have cleared up and you just dont understand. I have explained the scum buddy line to everyone already. and it's been squashed and accepted by the guy who brang up the accusation:

I voted RPG and then when it was pointed out to me that I had my facts wrong and I looked and agree with that,

Do you read the thread? As for the Agenda word, it really couldnt be any clearer. What do the scum need to do to blend in with us? Or to get us to follow them? They need an agenda. And they do get to talk at night, to further their agenda. Gasp! How could I have thought up the word agenda? It's really simple. Maybe you're scared because I used the word you didnt want me to use. Oh, the

paranoia

. And if I have to explain that again it further confirms the ill-reading you do of this thread.

By the way, a very interesting line here, maybe you should update your "findings" more often. In relation to Gayle

probably one of the most suspicious people in the game

Then, when he finishes up his 2nd post:

So after all that I'm finding IKD and RPG kind of scummy. More later for now, vote: RPG

Really? Wow, the contradictions arise! suspicious and scummy, in relation to this game, really means the same thing. You vote me, which i'm totally not surprised on. But by the way you word that first quote, it seems I may not be the most scummiest in your eyes. Is your vote masked as an OMGUS? Because why would you not vote for the most scummiest? Dont you want to catch scum? Especially since IKD and I are only

kind of

scummy, where as Gayle Is "one of the most suspicious people".

Tracker, I implore you to come with a more detailed findings. Because this makes no sense, ironically. Again, relation to Gayle

agenda as if accused

Do you mean my word of the agenda that you were confused on? How would you know if he was being accused of 'agenda' if you SAID you never understood why I used the word? Man, the contradictions!

Another contradiction I notice:

I think the post count is being overplayed a little bit.

Yet, you are using post counts in all the players. Why do you do it and then get on him about it?

[RPG*Twilight]

Interesting. NCJ wouldnt vote right away. But then a simple analysis (albeit confusing and clunky) from tracker and without even refuting any of what he had to say, votes him because of a mis-count (which makes his vote even more suspicious), then it seems he just "knows his true identity". That is a bit creepy, given that the only people who are "convinced they know their true identity" are the mafia themselves.

Is it enough to change my vote? I dont know, but a major FOS on NCJ is there.

FoS: NCJ

Tracker, the only thing I implore you to do on your cases is find some quotes to back it up. I mean, it's one thing to have the words there. But how did you come to that note in your case? I mean, for all we know, you could have made that out of thin air or were grasping at straws. Also, some of your findings are hard to follow because they are almost too summarized. Could you just elaborate on how you find some of these things? Most are easy, but some are a bit confusing. (Admits to going with crowd and NL=Bad. Did he say they were both bad? There's a huge difference and a huge scumtell between that, and it'd be great if there was some discernment there.)

[RPG*Twilight]

RPG: Just curious to know if you saw my case, quotes and all, on NCJ or if the FoS is just on NCJ's reaction to both cases.

I read your case, and it factored in. But I mainly focused in on his reaction to Tracker. I just found what he did/said to be the main part of what I needed to talk about. There was no real reason to re-hash what you said, so I decided to try to get in on another avenue.

[RPG*Twilight]

I believe we need to keep the discussion going and get to a quality lynch with as much information as we can. We have 5 days, and some cases building on other people, and I dont think we can afford to ever lose time.

so.

unvote: Tracker

.

It doesnt mean he's off the hook. He's just been bringing a case to the table that we need to look at, from all angles. And since this is happening, if he were to get quick lynched, it'd show he's town and we are working backwards now. So it wont hurt to use the full time to gather information from all angles. This case on NCJ is quite compelling, and I will read it a second time through so I can have a quality response put up.

[RPG*Twilight]

I mean I was a going to hammer tracker, but IKD suggested that we still have a week and so there is no reason to rush it. I don't think much of the case against NCJ, and am still leaning towards lynching tracker.

Wasnt I the one who said we had 5 days left to vote? Did you just make up a name and throw it out there?

Actually, yes I was.

I believe we need to keep the discussion going and get to a quality lynch with as much information as we can. We have 5 days, and some cases building on other people, and I dont think we can afford to ever lose time.

so. unvote: Tracker.

And for some reason, and it's more based off of the feeling I got reading the text, but it sounds like youre trying to save face by saying someone "suggested that we wait" even though you really wanted to hammer. But, like I said, that's just a feeling.

[RPG*Twilight]

RPG, once again your questions bewilder me. The post I am referring to is 156 by IKD

Does it really bewilder you that I could have thought you meant mine when you never referred to an actual post?

Make sure you do your end first.

[RPG*Twilight]

I was looking forward to RPG calling me out on that.

What? I'm not even in your suspect list, yet you wanted me to answer? You were off my suspect list until these recent events, however. But if you're truly town and you say i'm truly town, why would you be waiting for a response that's not going to help you find scum? And on top of that, you have Kingdavid on your suspect list. Wouldnt you want him answering that more than me?

Yes, that is right. Part of the reason I did not lynch is because I thought it would look suspicious. Am I wrong for not wanting to seem suspicious? The other part being that you suggested hammering might not be a good idea, so I didn't.

See, I have no idea what you are trying to convey here. Do you not want to look suspicious because you're mafia, or just because you dont want to have to answer questions? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and go with the latter. But with all this "Other people playing my cards" business to look town, it's somewhat hard to believe that.

I'm glad you wanted to have more discussion, but is there a slight chance you are a scumbuddy that didnt want to lynch his mafia mate? Definitely. And it's so easy to mask that right now by using Kingdavid and I's "wait policy" as fodder.

It kind of seems, if that scenario is true, that you are kind of caught in a pickle. But all this is a lot of assuming going on, and is really just for hypothetical purposes right now, and I am, to be honest, kind of reaching. But it's all in the realm of possibility.

That all said, I would not vote for tracker now. Re-reading the last two pages and tracker's posts, my suspicions have changed.

What did he say? What made your suspicions change? Right now it's just this quote telling us it's changed, but I haven't seen why. I need some elaboration on this.


Going back to the "not hammering because you suggested it might not be a good idea"... while it seems pro town, it also seems like appeasement. Like you're saying "Well, it's only day 1, i'll just kind of follow the crowd." But also saying "If I follow the crowd, maybe, just maybe I can guide them to the correct lynch"... It almost seems a bit misleading. You've been pretty cryptic in your last few posts, ironically, while being honest, you say. Again, I may be reaching here, but you have given us quite a few avenues to look at.

FoS: Gayle

[RPG*Twilight]

I was looking forward to RPG calling me out on that.

What? I'm not even in your suspect list, yet you wanted me to answer? You were off my suspect list until these recent events, however. But if you're truly town and you say i'm truly town, why would you be waiting for a response that's not going to help you find scum? And on top of that, you have Kingdavid on your suspect list. Wouldnt you want him answering that more than me?

Yes, that is right. Part of the reason I did not lynch is because I thought it would look suspicious. Am I wrong for not wanting to seem suspicious? The other part being that you suggested hammering might not be a good idea, so I didn't.

See, I have no idea what you are trying to convey here. Do you not want to look suspicious because you're mafia, or just because you dont want to have to answer questions? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and go with the latter. But with all this "Other people playing my cards" business to look town, it's somewhat hard to believe that.

I'm glad you wanted to have more discussion, but is there a slight chance you are a scumbuddy that didnt want to lynch his mafia mate? Definitely. And it's so easy to mask that right now by using Kingdavid and I's "wait policy" as fodder.

It kind of seems, if that scenario is true, that you are kind of caught in a pickle. But all this is a lot of assuming going on, and is really just for hypothetical purposes right now, and I am, to be honest, kind of reaching. But it's all in the realm of possibility.

That all said, I would not vote for tracker now. Re-reading the last two pages and tracker's posts, my suspicions have changed.

What did he say? What made your suspicions change? Right now it's just this quote telling us it's changed, but I haven't seen why. I need some elaboration on this.


Going back to the "not hammering because you suggested it might not be a good idea"... while it seems pro town, it also seems like appeasement. Like you're saying "Well, it's only day 1, i'll just kind of follow the crowd." But also saying "If I follow the crowd, maybe, just maybe I can guide them to the correct lynch"... It almost seems a bit misleading. You've been pretty cryptic in your last few posts, ironically, while being honest, you say. Again, I may be reaching here, but you have given us quite a few avenues to look at.

FoS: Gayle

[RPG*Twilight]

I was looking forward to RPG calling me out on that.

What? I'm not even in your suspect list, yet you wanted me to answer? You were off my suspect list until these recent events, however. But if you're truly town and you say i'm truly town, why would you be waiting for a response that's not going to help you find scum? And on top of that, you have Kingdavid on your suspect list. Wouldnt you want him answering that more than me?

Yes, that is right. Part of the reason I did not lynch is because I thought it would look suspicious. Am I wrong for not wanting to seem suspicious? The other part being that you suggested hammering might not be a good idea, so I didn't.

See, I have no idea what you are trying to convey here. Do you not want to look suspicious because you're mafia, or just because you dont want to have to answer questions? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and go with the latter. But with all this "Other people playing my cards" business to look town, it's somewhat hard to believe that.

I'm glad you wanted to have more discussion, but is there a slight chance you are a scumbuddy that didnt want to lynch his mafia mate? Definitely. And it's so easy to mask that right now by using Kingdavid and I's "wait policy" as fodder.

It kind of seems, if that scenario is true, that you are kind of caught in a pickle. But all this is a lot of assuming going on, and is really just for hypothetical purposes right now, and I am, to be honest, kind of reaching. But it's all in the realm of possibility.

That all said, I would not vote for tracker now. Re-reading the last two pages and tracker's posts, my suspicions have changed.

What did he say? What made your suspicions change? Right now it's just this quote telling us it's changed, but I haven't seen why. I need some elaboration on this.


Going back to the "not hammering because you suggested it might not be a good idea"... while it seems pro town, it also seems like appeasement. Like you're saying "Well, it's only day 1, i'll just kind of follow the crowd." But also saying "If I follow the crowd, maybe, just maybe I can guide them to the correct lynch"... It almost seems a bit misleading. You've been pretty cryptic in your last few posts, ironically, while being honest, you say. Again, I may be reaching here, but you have given us quite a few avenues to look at.

FoS: Gayle

[RPG*Twilight]

I was looking forward to RPG calling me out on that.

What? I'm not even in your suspect list, yet you wanted me to answer? You were off my suspect list until these recent events, however. But if you're truly town and you say i'm truly town, why would you be waiting for a response that's not going to help you find scum? And on top of that, you have Kingdavid on your suspect list. Wouldnt you want him answering that more than me?

Yes, that is right. Part of the reason I did not lynch is because I thought it would look suspicious. Am I wrong for not wanting to seem suspicious? The other part being that you suggested hammering might not be a good idea, so I didn't.

See, I have no idea what you are trying to convey here. Do you not want to look suspicious because you're mafia, or just because you dont want to have to answer questions? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and go with the latter. But with all this "Other people playing my cards" business to look town, it's somewhat hard to believe that.

I'm glad you wanted to have more discussion, but is there a slight chance you are a scumbuddy that didnt want to lynch his mafia mate? Definitely. And it's so easy to mask that right now by using Kingdavid and I's "wait policy" as fodder.

It kind of seems, if that scenario is true, that you are kind of caught in a pickle. But all this is a lot of assuming going on, and is really just for hypothetical purposes right now, and I am, to be honest, kind of reaching. But it's all in the realm of possibility.

That all said, I would not vote for tracker now. Re-reading the last two pages and tracker's posts, my suspicions have changed.

What did he say? What made your suspicions change? Right now it's just this quote telling us it's changed, but I haven't seen why. I need some elaboration on this.


Going back to the "not hammering because you suggested it might not be a good idea"... while it seems pro town, it also seems like appeasement. Like you're saying "Well, it's only day 1, i'll just kind of follow the crowd." But also saying "If I follow the crowd, maybe, just maybe I can guide them to the correct lynch"... It almost seems a bit misleading. You've been pretty cryptic in your last few posts, ironically, while being honest, you say. Again, I may be reaching here, but you have given us quite a few avenues to look at.

FoS: Gayle

[RPG*Twilight]

Sorry for the triple (now quadruple post.) It stalled for 10 minutes while I waited...

[RPG*Twilight]

Note- This was done all as a stream of conciousness, so if you need clarification, let me know.

Well this puts me at a very interesting position.

We have NCJ at L-1, and with Canada awol pretty much, that puts me as pretty much the last vote if he doesnt show. with the vote ending in just a little over 2 days, I'm at quite the predicament.

I do think the case on NCJ has legs, and given that tracker has contributed much more (comparatively) and has qualmed my doubts enough to unvote.... Man, I really dont know.

I really do think the more qualified lynch would be NCJ based on these facts:

1) His avoidance of this case on him now for a good 3 days, do we really need to wait for 3 days on cases? I understand the weekend it's a bit tough, but I actually think it's longer than 3 days. Can we really afford that in day 2/day 3, etc.?

2) Say my vote is on Tracker. That puts two people at L-1 with both either being V/LA or lurking or not even around here. Will we get our answers (Especially to the claim from NCJ, if he hasnt posted to defend his case... if he comes on and just role claims... would that be enough to distance him from his case, AND will we have enough time to move votes around if he's convincing enough, if that were even possible?) And even more important, if Canada doesnt come on and vote, we are at a NL, the worst worst worst possible situation we could put ourselves in.


3) If Canada does come on and vote NCJ and Canada sees this and uses this as fodder to hammer, it could be a pretty huge scum tell. This is the only point that has me doubting and wanting to wait. But again, do we expect him to pick his prod up and give a logical explanation to his lynch?

4) NCJ has been a pretty active lurker. Right now I think he'd be the BWCS. Even if he does flip town, what did we really lose?

I am tempted to wait until noon (PST- Pacific Standard time. 3 PM EST.) to make my final decision... yet, if Canada does vote tracker, will that be the one I think would be the best for the town? Should we wait for the claim? Will that be enough? Will we have time? He'd have to post in the next 12 hours to give enough time for everyone to see it, and I just dont think... well, come to think of it, maybe NCJ is hoping for a NL (Whether he is for it or not is irrelevant at this time) and thats why he's hiding.

Being at L-1, i'm wanting him to role claim as well... but I doubt that's going to help him,and us, and are we really going to believe him? We wouldnt have time for a counter-claim as well, and time for discussion of it all. 48 hours on this forum is not enough time for a new set of discussion to really happen, especially something as important as claims/counter claims.

So remove tracker from my list. I don't think NCJ would warrant my vote quite yet, nor would Gayle.

And this quote has me thinking we wont get a clear vote from Canada, therefore I think we should just move to the night.

Given all that, and really thinking through this in every possible scenario, I think we have our most qualified lynch in NCJ.

Vote: NCJ

Hopefully we have the correct lynch. I'd rather have this than a NL, and that seemed to be the only other option, given Canada's stance.