[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Albert B. Rampage]

Trendy and Subversive Mafia sucks.

Time to go back to the tried and true:

Nominate Friends and Enemies V.1

3 Mafia.
3 Masons.
6 Vanilla.
No Bullshit.

Tired of these stupid games with only 2 mafia, or weak ass backup power roles, etc.

[yabbaguy]

ABR, we were playing an unlisted variant of T + S, as a reminder.

[Cobalt]

Trendy and Subversive Mafia sucks.

Time to go back to the tried and true:

Nominate Friends and Enemies V.1

3 Mafia.
3 Masons.
6 Vanilla.
No Bullshit.

Tired of these stupid games with only 2 mafia, or weak ass backup power roles, etc.

Masons claim d1. No counterclaims. Lynch everyone not a mason. gg
Masons claim d1. A group counterclaims them. Lynch one from each group. One will be the mafia group. gg

[Albert B. Rampage]

Masons claim d1. No counterclaims. Lynch 3 scum in 9 players (33%). NK a mason.

Its not a nightless...

[Cobalt]

So let masons claim d2/3.

[Albert B. Rampage]

They will still get NK'd. You're not making any good points.

[Cobalt]

Masons claiming D3 with 4 dead means a pool of 5 people that will contain all three scum. Even if a mason is killed it leaves 3 scum in 6. Scum would have to kill a mason per night from night 1 or get caught in a small suspect pool.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Masons claiming D3 with 4 dead means a pool of 5 people that will contain all three scum. Even if a mason is killed it leaves 3 scum in 6. Scum would have to kill a mason per night from night 1 or get caught in a small suspect pool.

Your math is wrong. If the scum failed to out a mason on day 1, then failed to NK a mason on night 1, there would be 4 townies / 3 scum / 3 masons left. If again they fail to out or NK a mason, it would be 2 townies / 3 scum / 3 masons. If again they fail to out or NK a mason, and the masons massclaim, the mafia still wins if they convince the masons to lynch the townie.

But what usually happens is 1 or 2 masons either out themselves through day 1-3, or mafia kills them during the night.

You're way off.

[Cobalt]

Masons claiming D3 with 4 dead means a pool of 5 people that will contain all three scum. Even if a mason is killed it leaves 3 scum in 6. Scum would have to kill a mason per night from night 1 or get caught in a small suspect pool.

Your math is wrong. If the scum failed to out a mason on day 1, then failed to NK a mason on night 1, there would be 4 townies / 3 scum / 3 masons left. If again they fail to out or NK a mason, it would be 2 townies / 3 scum / 3 masons. If again they fail to out or NK a mason, and the masons massclaim, the mafia still wins if they convince the masons to lynch the townie.

But what usually happens is 1 or 2 masons either out themselves through day 1-3, or mafia kills them during the night.

You're way off.

It would have to be an extremely good mafia to convince the masons to lynch the remaining townie (or one of the two remaining townies) considering they will form 3 out of a given 4 or 5 players. The odds are strongly in favor of the masons lynching a goon instead. Then the mafia is forced to NK the masons one by one, so unless the one or two townies left are real VIs, or the scumteam is super good, it'll be pretty hard to engineer a mislynch.
The most likely scenario is probably 1 dead mason and 1 dead scum by d3. That leaves 2/2/2. If the masons claim that leaves a pool of 2 out of 4 in mylo, not bad.

[farside22]

I know I have played Friends and Enemies. Day 1 mason claim is bad.
I have never seen 3 mason's live to day 3. Even if they claim there is still townies there too.
To have scum and mason's that good to never be lynched or killed during the first 2 days has yet to happen.
I will put Friends and Enemies up for the next round.

[Ether]

Daytalk 2.0

(11 players)
3 mafia goons
1 watcher
7 vanilla townies
Day Start

All players can talk freely during the day. (Only scum can talk privately during night and twilight.)

The watcher is there as a role that can only get guilty results, so if it wants to give its information to a spokesperson instead of outing itself, it would have to choose someone to trust. The presence of a watcher would also discourage scum from killing obvtownies, so that would help, too.

[farside22]

Isn't daytalk mean that mafia can talk all during the day in private?

[Ether]

The original (totally unbalanced) 3:9 game with universal daytalk was just called Daytalk 12.

I don't think there's a different term for universal daytalk (except, well, universal daytalk). Outside communication, I guess.

[shaft.ed]

Masons claiming D3 with 4 dead means a pool of 5 people that will contain all three scum. Even if a mason is killed it leaves 3 scum in 6. Scum would have to kill a mason per night from night 1 or get caught in a small suspect pool.

Your math is wrong. If the scum failed to out a mason on day 1, then failed to NK a mason on night 1, there would be 4 townies / 3 scum / 3 masons left. If again they fail to out or NK a mason, it would be 2 townies / 3 scum / 3 masons. If again they fail to out or NK a mason, and the masons massclaim, the mafia still wins if they convince the masons to lynch the townie.

But what usually happens is 1 or 2 masons either out themselves through day 1-3, or mafia kills them during the night.

You're way off.

It would have to be an extremely good mafia to convince the masons to lynch the remaining townie (or one of the two remaining townies) considering they will form 3 out of a given 4 or 5 players. The odds are strongly in favor of the masons lynching a goon instead. Then the mafia is forced to NK the masons one by one, so unless the one or two townies left are real VIs, or the scumteam is super good, it'll be pretty hard to engineer a mislynch.
The most likely scenario is probably 1 dead mason and 1 dead scum by d3. That leaves 2/2/2. If the masons claim that leaves a pool of 2 out of 4 in mylo, not bad.

funny you would mention adds of lynching a goon in that scenario while ignoring the slim odds of all three masons living that long.

[farside22]

The original (totally unbalanced) 3:9 game with universal daytalk was just called Daytalk 12.

I don't think there's a different term for universal daytalk (except, well, universal daytalk). Outside communication, I guess.

I would think the mod should be invovled in those discussions. Something about it I could see going hinky otherwise.

[Ether]

I guess replacements would probably need the transcripts, yeah.

[farside22]

I guess replacements would probably need the transcripts, yeah.

It could be more work but you could set a quick topic for each person indiviually to chat with ever they want and they will be responsible to send their chat link to him they wish to talk to more privately.

[Ether]

Well, a QuickTopic for each individual to paste all of the transcripts it was involved in for replacements and nonplayers to read would work. Sending it to other players would defeat the purpose. (And be quoting private conversations, which would presumably still be against the rules.)

For actual communication, you'd really need to use AIM, PMs, unofficial QuickTopics, et cetera. Unless you decided to make 64 separate official QuickTopics (all of the two-person pairings, minus the scum ones, plus a three-person scum topic), which is just crazy.

[farside22]

Well, a QuickTopic for each individual to paste all of the transcripts it was involved in for replacements and nonplayers to read would work. Sending it to other players would defeat the purpose. (And be quoting private conversations, which would presumably still be against the rules.)

For actual communication, you'd really need to use AIM, PMs, unofficial QuickTopics, et cetera. Unless you decided to make 64 separate official QuickTopics (all of the two-person pairings, minus the scum ones, plus a three-person scum topic), which is just crazy.

Yuck. It's really a big mess for the mod

[Ether]

Eh. I don't see 10 QuickTopics as a huge deal.

By the way, you should totally comment on the old setups I posted in this thread.

[dramonic]

its not 10 though. each player can talk to everyone else, so...

66 quicktopics.

[Ether]

No, just 10. One for each town player and the scumgroup to log their conversations so that, if it gets replaced, then the replacement will have a record of those conversations. The players can handle communication with each

other

however they want; there's no reason it needs to be official.

[farside22]

I just noticed the Rebels in the Palace game. Isn't that basically 4:8 Nightless, a game town already has an advantage in, with weakened scum?

Also:

Fixed

(12 players)
3 mafia (2 goons, 1 tailor)
7 vanilla townies
2 cops
Day Start

The tailor's target has its alignment flipped for investigative purposes for the night.

SCIENCE

(7 players)
2 mafia (1 goon, 1 encryptor)
3 vanilla townies
2 daymasons
Day Start

Encryptor's survival permits mafia daytalking. (Of course, it doesn't matter which of them has that role.)

Not sure I get the tailor idea but 2 cops seem a bit strong to me.

I like the second idea here. Question on this can the masons talk during the day too or just the mafia?

[Ether]

Daymasons means daytalk, yeah.

If a tailor and a cop target the same player, then the cop gets a false result. I think PF and I agreed later that all dead mafia are revealed simply as

mafia

, so the town doesn't know when the tailor dies and there's always room for argument on the cop results. (In this version, I think the tailor can also target itself.) It's also been renamed Bad Tweed.

[farside22]

Daymasons means daytalk, yeah.

If a tailor and a cop target the same player, then the cop gets a false result. I think PF and I agreed later that all dead mafia are revealed simply as

mafia

, so the town doesn't know when the tailor dies and there's always room for argument on the cop results. (In this version, I think the tailor can also target itself.) It's also been renamed Bad Tweed.

Still 2 cops seem a bit one sided to me. Idk it's just seems more leveled to the town because and yes this is a long shot if both cops live after N1 lets say they can say I checked player X and he checked player Y
if they both get innocent it's something where one could be wrong. If they get guilty on both then it's for sure 1 scum gone.