Mini 884 - Last Man Standing (Over)

[Sotty7]

/confirm

[Sotty7]

I can get down with a d3X vote.

Vote: d3x

[Sotty7]

I don't have suspicions as to whether or not your reasons for Voting Ecto were legit, nor did I ever say I did. I asked if you were making a Random Vote or not. I Voted you for deflecting {which you continue to do} and for getting defensive.

d3x, do you think being defensive is a legit scum tell?

[Sotty7]

Initial reaction is that d3x blew up Nacho's vote, not really sure why. d3x did have two votes on him at the time so he could have been trying to get serious stuff going to get them off him. But two votes in the general scheme of things is really nothing. There was just something a little fake about his reaction to me.

[Sotty7]

@Sotty p66- I think that being defensive by itself is not neccessarily a ScumTell, just something to watch out for.

If it's not a scum tell why do you need to watch out for it? Why was that part of the reasons you voted him?

@Sotty p68- I don't have a problem with Nacho's Vote, can you show me where I 'blew it up'?

You blew it up in the case that you questioned him on it which is all in your right I suppose. However the intensity of your questioning just didn't seem to fit the crime in my eyes. You asked him a series of questions and then proclaimed him defensive as if that means anything. It all feels false to me, I don't see a townie reacting to nacho's vote like that.

[Sotty7]

Both him and DJ are jumpy, but nacho more so than DJ. Interesting.

What's jumpy about Don?

Hmmm . . . I see absolutly nothing scummy about d3x questioning Nm8, and it's a stretch to call it scum trying to get out of two RVS votes. Note to self: If Nm8 flips scum, Sotty is suspicious for this defense.

Yeah I admitted that is a stretch. I am trying to figure just what made d3x pick Nacho's vote, say over my vote to question.

Note to self, if d3x flips scum Confid is suspicious for this defense. See what I did there?

Right now, Nacho is obviously scummy . . . but not enough so that it warrants a vote from me yet.

What? What does warrant a vote from you?

Would you be reacting the same way if you weren't being voted for? Just wondering. Because as of right now, a few people share your suspicions... They just don't express them as... colorfully as you do.

What do you expect him to say to this? “Actually no I wouldn't act this way if you voted someone else!” Yeah I don't see that happening. You are pushing Ecto's buttons as much as he is yours. It's not making this game a fun read.

if any of you have explained your random votes since and i have missed said explanations simply refer me to the post said information is contained within.

Mine was just a wagon vote. The player before my post voted d3x so I jumped on. That's all it was. Why is it such a big deal to explain RVS votes?

Unvote, Vote: Confid

The “So obviously scummy but I won't vote” thing pushed me over the edge.

[Sotty7]

Why does ConfidAnon deserve the vote more than pwnz? Let me show you how you should have done it:

ConfidAnon, what exactly do you mean by "Nacho is obviously scummy?"

Substance pwnz, today.

unvote, vote pwnz

I thought you wanted to ride nacho's wagon to a lynch. Why the sudden change of heart?

The player before my post voted d3x so I jumped on.

Point and case.

? I don't get it.

[Sotty7]

The ConfidAnon wagon is lame and it has all three of the people I just listed as good scum candidates on it back-to-back-to-back. Amished 124 looks like the kind of post I would make to force a weak wagon on someone.

Why is it lame?

You're reaching farrrrr here. Scum are nitpicky as hell...they make sure to be errorless...so i was semi nonchalant in my posting thus far. It cause i'm town. I dont need to tread on thin ice because I dont need to act town, i just can do whatever the hell i want...(basically).

You are playing bad because you are town? Yeah, that doesn't work for me.

[Sotty7]

Vi, I understand being against a wagon for (among other things) the speed at which it built. But the same thing happened to nacho at the start of the game. He had four votes by page three you had nothing really to say about that. What do you think about the two wagons side by side?

I will say I am not happy with benmage's pile on, it was really weak... *Thinking*

[Sotty7]

Do you have any solid insight you would like to contribute to the conversation?

I like VP and Amished so far, although more posting from the latter would be great. Porkchop could go in here too. Nacho has gone MIA since the pressure left him, I don't like that. As for the rest, I'm still in a sorting process.

Ecto, what do you think of the confid wagon now with how both Don and Benmage hopped on?

[Sotty7]

Unvote: VP Baltar
Vote: Sotty7

(L-6)

Obviously avoiding me where possible.

I could feel this vote coming.

How am I avoiding you when I have answered every question you have thrown my way and asked you some of my own? If you want my read on you, all you had to do was ask. We seem to be standing on two different sides. You liked the nacho wagon, I didn't. I liked the confid wagon, you didn't. I don't really find anything overly scummy about your play, but I'm not thinking obv town either. Hence you are lost in the mix.

[Sotty7]

Benmage, when do you think you can call someone scummy town?

[Sotty7]

Benmage, when do you think you can call someone scummy town?

Dudet i dont know exactly, absolutes suck in this game. But generally i'd say when you have a good town read on someone throughout a game and they slip up. Do a novice/poor/scummy move.

Do you think Vi's “scummy town” of Confid is set in stone?

How am I avoiding you when I have answered every question you have thrown my way and asked you some of my own?

I see your question about the Nacho wagon as a deflection. I answered and asked if you had anything else to add. You provided reads that were pretty much all opposite mine, and ended the conversation with a sentence saying were still "sorting" my alignment. Etc.

Deflection how? This is still me not avoiding you which was your reasoning for voting me in the first place. So I scum because I have opposite reads to you? I don't buy that. I disagree with plenty of people but that doesn't make them auto scum in my book. But it's nice to know how to get on your good side quick (agree with you at every point)

[Sotty7]

Deflection how? This is still me not avoiding you which was your reasoning for voting me in the first place. So I scum because I have opposite reads to you? I don't buy that. I disagree with plenty of people but that doesn't make them auto scum in my book. But it's nice to know how to get on your good side quick (agree with you at every point)

Well, I

do

like having followers... :vain:

I'm reading your question about the Nacho wagon as an attempt to steer the conversation away from the ConfidAnon wagon, which was part of why I was talking to you in the first place.

That's not how I remember it happening. My question on the nacho wagon wasn't a response to anything you said to me, it was me questioning you and your read on the confid wagon.

Meanwhile, while you aren't avoiding me, all you're doing is defending yourself. You said you were still in the "sorting" process for finding my alignment, but you didn't bother asking me anything to help yourself out on that front.

If I haven't been avoiding you, why was that your reasoning for voting me? I haven't just been defending myself, I have been asking questions of other people. Also my question on the nacho wagon

was

me trying to figure where you stand.

Right now I am getting mixed signals. Your vote on me is clearly bullshit which gives me scummy vibes. I was thinking your paranoia was more townie like, but that feeling is really starting fade.

Incidentally, your vote is still on ConfidAnon. Is that where you like it?

Yes, otherwise I would have moved it. I have been thinking about moving to Don, but I will take a look back over the thread before doing that.

---

In a Vi v.s. Amished standpoint, I'm finding Amished the scummier of the two because Vi tends to explain her votes better, and she's been more active. However, if Amished continues to post consistently, the choice will be a lot harder. Any other opinions? (Ben, maybe you could actually give us a real one?)

While weighing activity is a good thing it shouldn't be the

only

thing you take into account. Does this mean you like Vi's votes so far? If so why? Also why will Amished posting more make Vi scummier to you or at least the choice harder?

EBWOP: To further clarify my point on d3x: obviously no two people read the game the exact same way. In the way that I read the game, d3x's posting very strongly suggests third party. He could be scum; but either way, he's somebody that I feel should have some heat put on him sooner rather than later. Unfortunately for me, I only have one vote so I can't put the amount of pressure that I like on a person that I'm seriously questioning; and there's two other people that I want to deal with before him at this point.

I don't get this. If d3x is scummy to you why do you assume 3rd party? I found him pretty scummy at the start of the game, but his post before going on v/la was pretty decent. What is the difference for you between 3rd party actions to scum actions?

[Sotty7]

Deflection how? This is still me not avoiding you which was your reasoning for voting me in the first place. So I scum because I have opposite reads to you? I don't buy that. I disagree with plenty of people but that doesn't make them auto scum in my book. But it's nice to know how to get on your good side quick (agree with you at every point)

Well, I

do

like having followers... :vain:

I'm reading your question about the Nacho wagon as an attempt to steer the conversation away from the ConfidAnon wagon, which was part of why I was talking to you in the first place.

That's not how I remember it happening. My question on the nacho wagon wasn't a response to anything you said to me, it was me questioning you and your read on the confid wagon.

Meanwhile, while you aren't avoiding me, all you're doing is defending yourself. You said you were still in the "sorting" process for finding my alignment, but you didn't bother asking me anything to help yourself out on that front.

If I haven't been avoiding you, why was that your reasoning for voting me? I haven't just been defending myself, I have been asking questions of other people. Also my question on the nacho wagon

was

me trying to figure where you stand.

Right now I am getting mixed signals. Your vote on me is clearly bullshit which gives me scummy vibes. I was thinking your paranoia was more townie like, but that feeling is really starting fade.

Incidentally, your vote is still on ConfidAnon. Is that where you like it?

Yes, otherwise I would have moved it. I have been thinking about moving to Don, but I will take a look back over the thread before doing that.

---

In a Vi v.s. Amished standpoint, I'm finding Amished the scummier of the two because Vi tends to explain her votes better, and she's been more active. However, if Amished continues to post consistently, the choice will be a lot harder. Any other opinions? (Ben, maybe you could actually give us a real one?)

While weighing activity is a good thing it shouldn't be the

only

thing you take into account. Does this mean you like Vi's votes so far? If so why? Also why will Amished posting more make Vi scummier to you or at least the choice harder?

EBWOP: To further clarify my point on d3x: obviously no two people read the game the exact same way. In the way that I read the game, d3x's posting very strongly suggests third party. He could be scum; but either way, he's somebody that I feel should have some heat put on him sooner rather than later. Unfortunately for me, I only have one vote so I can't put the amount of pressure that I like on a person that I'm seriously questioning; and there's two other people that I want to deal with before him at this point.

I don't get this. If d3x is scummy to you why do you assume 3rd party? I found him pretty scummy at the start of the game, but his post before going on v/la was pretty decent. What is the difference for you between 3rd party actions to scum actions?

[Sotty7]

That's not how I remember it happening. My question on the nacho wagon wasn't a response to anything you said to me, it was me questioning you and your read on the confid wagon.

How does that contradict anything I said?

You said I was trying to steer conversation away from Confid, this is not true. I also don't think I was ever ignoring you. But yeah, circles, we are going around in one here.

What is your opinion of BentheMage?

Poorly reasoned townie at this point. I am not seeing the scum motivation for playing like he has, jumping on the early nacho wagon without really knowing about it, then jumping on the confid wagon on others reasoning. Also his outlandish response to the Amished case makes me feel he is more likely to be town.

Basically the same read I believe you have of confid.

But my votes going to VPB...and i'll try to expand on this maybe later to help convince why, because right now its terrible reasoning. Well not bad, but bad in getting you all to lynch. Its based off a meta between me and her, and she just isn't playing at all how i'm use to (so clearly i think shes scum)...obviously meta is something only for me, so i'll try and expand on this later.

Please do explain because to me it is looking a little like OMGUS.

The problem with 3rd party scumhunting, is that they know that they're all alone; so have a higher than normal self-preservation mentality. They'll tend to be more fence-sitty and wishywashy than normal (59 is a perfect example of this)

No, I'm not buying this. D3x was pushing hard on nacho, he wasn't being wishy washy or fence-sitty. I think you are really reaching here to justify the 3rd party comment you made.

Sotty7

• I think there is a whole lot of misrepresentation coming from Sotty in this post. The word ‘necessarily’ is pretty key in that sentence, and Sotty ignoring it allows her to call scum on d3x for having an attitude he didn’t hold. Then the whole blowing things out of proportion is, ironically, blowing d3x’s actions out of proportion. Scumtastic.
• We get a lot of questions but very little analysis is delivered. Case in point. These guys are ok, these guys need to post and the rest are question marks. Way to avoid giving a concrete response.

I don't think it is misrepresentation at all. I wanted to know what d3x thought was a scum tell. Being defensive is

not

a scum tell, ever. Both townies and scum have every reason to be defensive in the face of a vote/wagon/lynch/death and I have found that just saying someone is defensive is a negative reflection on that player and hence is supposed to make them scummy. Really it is a null tell.

I asked d3x if he thought being defenseive was a legit scum tell (Post 66) he basically said no, not by itself at least, but I watch for it anyway. That tripped my alarm because being defensive was part of the reason d3x voted nacho for. So I probed him some more. So where is the misrep?

As for the questioning thing I am pretty guilty of that in this game mainly because I am confused and I am trying to figure things out. There seems to be a lot of play I can dismiss as newb town play (Ben, Don even confid.) but I need to find the scummy play. Asking questions of players helps me try and figure out their motivation. I'm not going to stop doing it.

Don: What do you think of Amished and his 3rd party thoughts?

I'll admit I'm not quite on ball with the Don v Confid argument, I will need to review the thread to get a better opinion on that.

[Sotty7]

I told ya its a bad vote already lol, because its based solely on my eperience with VP.

Okay then, how about you elaborate some more then. What is he doing that is so against his meta that you just have to vote him for?

@Sotty: Read the last part of my 206 again. That's the wishy-washy type of comments that I saw in d3x. I think you're .. what was it? "really reaching here" to discredit what I'm seeing. I'd like to know why, ESPECIALLY after you clearly read 206 and my point about d3x's quote.

I am confused.

I see d3x as pushing hard on nacho. Are you saying he was pushing hard, but using weakish language to enable some distance if needs be? I'm obviously not getting something so I would prefer further clarification.

Don why didn't you shoot confid?

[Sotty7]

I told ya its a bad vote already lol, because its based solely on my eperience with VP.

Okay then, how about you elaborate some more then. What is he doing that is so against his meta that you just have to vote him for?

Would love to. Time is of the essence.

Yes it is. So.. You better get cracking then right?

I'm not liking the meta case on VP basically because it is non existent at this point. Post some substance on it soon please. With this in mind Amished vote on him looks pretty bad, there doesn't seem to be a reason behind it.

Don is very probably town at this point but he needs to stop pushing the wine in all of our faces. The choice to shoot was a poor one and it was even worse that he attempted to shoot another player afterwards.

[Sotty7]

I have caught a head cold from my husband which has left me lagging. Yeah I know, I suck. But blame him, I do.

Unvote

My skim showed Confid the healer, that gives me enough reason to unvote right now. Gonna read what I missed since my last post

[Sotty7]

You think I voted for him purely (or even mostly) on meta?

I think you voted him because he isn't pushing the game forward despite being on V/LA because otherwise you barely mention him. Please educate me if this is wrong. I think your vote is weak and I stand by that.

Ben post 301: I am not a fan of PBPA's personally. I think you can take anyones posts by iso and make them look scummy. That said your conclusions at the end of it seem well thought out, I can't really hate on that. I just don't buy VPscum at this point.

/me is speechless

I think that's the best post I've ever seen you make, Ben.

This is a ridiculous over reaction. Wanna share what is so great about it?

CA you're my hero. That's awesome.

Okay, I would be happy with an Amished lynch now.

Vote: Amished

@Vi: I was actually thinking Sotty; but I didn't want to get too distracted

you read my mind.

Love you too DJ

How's this for an option: if we can decide who to kill (VP); pwnz or nm8 should shoot for some possible extra confirmation. They haven't really been active lately and I want to hear from them as well.

omg no. This game should not be nightless.

Still not buying the VP case, if people who are not benmage could explain it to me I would like that.

Not sure if I buy VP's assertion that benmage is scum either. He feels eager townie to me. Amished's hop onto the VP wagon followed by the extreme buddying to Ben and Confid make me think he is scum.

[Sotty7]

Vi, what do you think of Amished's vote on VP?

[Sotty7]

Interesting how? I'm blind.

I am also allowed to change my mind as the game progresses. I am not liking Amished one little bit right now.

[Sotty7]

Sorry I didn't see the new page. The above was directed at Ben.

[Sotty7]

Ben, are you saying you don't see the difference in calling someone Obvtown in the manner VP did and how Amished practically wet his pants over your case and confids heal?

[Sotty7]

Interesting how? I'm blind.

I am also allowed to change my mind as the game progresses. I am not liking Amished one little bit right now.

Sure ones allowed to change their mind...You may dislike Amish for whatever reason, i dont think you've really illustrated why.

Because the buddying thing is weak as hell.. Ok he buddy's me, fine you can dislike that.

But I, Vi, him... all were like 'awesome' when Con healed..so how can you hate on someone buddyin a doc?? doesnt make sense.

And you ignore VPB who appeared to be buddyin you(so this cant be a vendetta against "buddying")...soo not blind, interesting...alternative motive perhaps..idno, but definitely interesting.

Okay maybe you have a point, I haven't explained it well enough the buddying is just part of my case. Here are my reasons in full:

I dislike Amished for his 3rd party chatter with d3x. I still don't know how you can spot scum from 3rd party so early in the game. Then we combine that with his weak jump on the VP wagon. Look back and you will see he barely mentions VP before his vote. One mention is a slight defense of VP early in the game and then later he mentions that VP hasn't been pushing the game forwards. This is forcing VP to live up to a crazy standard of play, and didn't take into account VP's V/LA.

I call him out on his vote, he then questions me as if I am silly

not

to know his VP reasoning. Does not compute.

You then post your case on VP and he jumps all over you for making such an awesome post. I am not calling the level of awesomeness in the post into account here, just the fact he latched onto it without having gone into detail for why he is voting VP himself, now he has a case to use. Also he doesn't state what is great about the post or why, it's just freaking awesome.

Fast forward and we get the confid heal and suddenly that is super awesome too. I mean seriously? I don't buy these reactions one bit, I think it is scum forcing.

Add all these things up and Amished is my number one and where my vote is.

[Sotty7]

Ben, are you saying you don't see the difference in calling someone Obvtown in the manner VP did and how Amished practically wet his pants over your case and confids heal?

Do you think VPB was serious when he called you obv town?

I thought it was tongue in cheek really and I thought he was being semi serious while making a joke (considering what he quoted was me defending him). So either he is telling the truth and I have played

way

too many games with VP, or he lied about it being a joke and I was wrong.

Alright Scotty, that was much better/clearer. I see why you hold your suspicions whether or not I agree. The Con thing imo is still null..the 3rd party and VPB vote holds weight, but i still think amish is town, especially with some of the little back n forth he and i had.

Fair enough. Maybe when I get my energy back I will try and show you why you should see things my way.

[Sotty7]

The correlations between d3x and Zone are pretty darn high for tone of posting; so it's not wild, nor baseless, nor anything else you really want to say. I call them like I see em; I didn't feel the need to withhold my suspicions about a player if later in the game something points to me being right.

Could I have a link to this game, I would like to compare myself.

@Sotty: I don't expect him to lead the game to victory stomping on scum's heads just cause he can. I expect him to scumhunt (which isn't unreasonable) and I'll show how he's failed to meet that criterion. My question to you about why I'm voting for VP was to see what you thought it was. Here's a hint:

Unfortunately, I'm agreeing with Ben's vote; VP's activity this game (content, not necessarily number of posts) is awful (both in content and driving the game forward).

I specifically mention his content twice; and the lack of driving the game forward does not equate to OMG FIND SCUM NAO OR I SHOOT U!. Lack of driving the game forward is asking questions, trying to find out alignments, actually doing stuff when he's around.

So I was right in my assessment of your VP vote is what you are saying? You are voting VP because he isn't pushing the game forward AKA scum hunting despite being on V/LA, you also seemed to suggest meta was part of your reasoning. Yup, I still think your vote is terrible.

I am against this game going nightless but will bow to the majority if that's how they want to roll. I might be convinced if we shoot someone and they flip scum. Then we could have some good links and such. Otherwise, I am not so keen.

As for a lynch preference I currently run Amished, ecto, nacho/porkchop. Amished reasons should be clear, ecto doesn't seem to be willing to do anything over these last few pages. Nacho and porkchop are both lurking. Nacho has become very reactionary and will only appear when someone calls him out. He needs to be more proactive. Porkchop could be lurker scum or town at this point, I really don't know. I see a lot of pwnz talk and I guess I could throw him in with Porkchop, but I really liked his post 375. So yeah, he gets a reprieve of sorts.

[Sotty7]

@Sotty: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12011 I would caution against actually reading the thread unless you want to beat your brains out; VP can attest to that as well. If you want to; single out ZONEACE (SK) and EMPTyger (Psychiatrist). In post game notes; EMP states that he though ZA was SK after D1; it was just a small secondguessing that made EMP not pick Zone.

Thanks. I will look it over at the weekend here and let you know what I think.

Bah, I (and we) need the answer to this for a couple reasons anyhow.

shoot Vi

What answers? What reasons? This is horrible.

[Sotty7]

Hmm.

Ecto's case on Vi is pretty good really, I'm curious in what mistakes Amsihed saw in it. I have a gut town read on Vi after our little back and forth but I could easily be wrong. Vi is hard to read. I take back my remark that Ecto's shot was horrible.

Don v Ben feels like two townies fighting it out, they need to quit it.

[Sotty7]

Yup I hate this game.

I guess I could claim but I am not sure what difference that would make. Avenge my death

[Sotty7]

She also hopped on the Armished wagon with me when I have been the one pushing on him. So to say that I haven't been bringing anything to the conversation is complete BS on her part. Pretty much looks like a bitter reaction to my comment on ecto's case on her.

Makes me sad inside.

[Sotty7]

So I am not allowed to call you hard to read Vi and have " tentative language" but that's A-OK for you?

Vi had been sniping at Amished but I was the first to build

an actual case

which she jumped upon. She shot me because I said Ecto has a point with his case, a case she hasn't bothered to refute because it's not worth responding too. It has nothing to do with my contribution as I doubt she would have shot me if I posted a likewise message but saying that Ecto's case was full of crap.

That said, her shot might not count so this all might be mute, we need the mod to get in here. If I was to shoot right now I would shoot Amished obviously because I am the kind of person who would shot their

top

suspect and not make up some crap to shoot someone down the list.

That said I won't shoot because this game shouldn't go nightless. If I die I die, but this game needs nights.

[Sotty7]

I think you are more likely to flip town, but Ecto's case is a good one and has made me think twice about my read on you.

[Sotty7]

@Amished

I read the game you gave me and I think I get your point. It is something I have put on my back burner for the time being. I am still interested in the flaws you saw in Ecto's case. if you could point them out when you get back from your vacation I would appreciate it.

I'm also guessing from Vi's result that there is a random factor to the shooting. I could also have gotten entirely lucky and gotten a random kill shot, but I don't think so.

At this moment I think that we all have different skill levels with the gun. Vi's shot however could just be flavor as she would have been dead so unable to get a good shot off. Something I haven't ruled out at least.

ecto: let's lynch confid. i don't understand why he thinks vi's flip would be any more "interesting" after he used his healing powers to save vi in the first place. on top of that his play has been horrible and his tremendous overreaction to the simple one word question "why?" was downright laughable. if not confid, then who? my second choice would be benmage with vp knocking on the door.

I'd prefer to keep him around until it becomes clear we need to look under that rock. For me, VP looks way to much like he knew Vi was town before he flipped.

How?

@d3x

What's your opinion of Ecto's choice to shoot Vi, did you think his case was valid? What has happened to your Nacho suspicion? He is barely posting yet you seemed a little too eager to vote for Don. You have any other suspects?

[Sotty7]

Don that second question is horrible unless you believe that only town players can play good and we all know that isn't the case.

[Sotty7]

You have any other suspects?

See my Iso15.

Nothing has changed for you between then and now? What do you think of the ecto/DJ/Ben v VP argument that is going down? I would apologize for the 101 questions but I feel like you are sat on the outside picking and choosing the things to comment on. You feel very stand offish since coming back from your V/LA.

Well i certainly didnt declare ecto town. But i said his iso 45 the case on Vi...didnt seem that bad. Yes i had a good town read on Vi, but his reasoning for shooting from his PoV seemed understandable even if i disagreed. I haven't ignored him. That made me want to reread Vi. Theres other things currently on my plate/agenda that i'm taking care of first.

I think a player post of everyone listing from scummiest to town maybe be in order for/from everyone. (off the top of my head) I dont know where ecto might fall, but 2nd(scummiest) might be possible.

Why would ecto be number two on your list? He is pushing your number one after all

Ecto your post 539 is reaching just a tad. The first section of quotes isn't VP saying Vi is town or making excuses for it. It is VP making excuses for Don if anything. The second part never has VP calling Vi scum, the logical reasoning is that I am higher on his townie list than Vi was. There isn't scum or town category for everyone, it's scale.

[Considering Vi is easily top 5 scummer for me, I really didn't want to tango either. I shot. Now we have words we know for certain belong to a town member, the

only

one confirmed to us. My plan is to go back and read what Vi had to say in that light.

Just because Vi flipped town doesn't mean she was right about anything.

Unvote, Vote: Ecto

I think pwnz nailed it in post 571 and add onto that Ecto's attacks on VP a popular target without attaching his vote. That's enough to earn mine. I am also very uneasy about d3x and Nacho.

[Sotty7]

I said i dont know where he'd fall and 2nd is possible. So what if hes pushing VPB, scum bus. He killed Vi whose town...bad against him. I disliked him for it for i had a town read on Vi, read ecto's iso and his case (iso45) and it didnt seem to bad. Valid from his PoV. It made me want to reread Vi to see if it held even more weight, or crumbled. I have yet to do that as I have other things on my agenda.

I agree ecto's case was valid from his POV, his case isn't the most troubling thing for me. But putting all that to one side Ben, what do you think of ecto's play? The above about wanting to re-read Vi is all stuff you have said before and doesn't really do anything for me. I understand about the re-reads, I am not asking for that right now. Just what is your opinion on him with his interaction with VP? Your comment about the fact he

could

fall 2nd on your list was so open ended. I want something solid.

What are your feelings towards VPB?

I like what he is doing now with his ecto pressure. I don't have any bad vibes about him.

Way to distort the message pal. Vi is the

only

known town voice and opinion. Interesting how you leap to totally discount anything Vi had to say while voting me for killing that town player.

fos Sotty7

Actually your the one distorting things. Vi was pretty bitter at the end there as demonstrated by her baseless reason for shooting me. I know she was wrong about that and I doubt that was the only thing. I am not about to hold her word up as gospel and neither should you.

How about stating your own case instead of a "what he said"? Ecto's "attacks" on VP were direct responses to "attacks" on my statement that VP already looked like he knew Vi was town. Love these types of plays. You see if you dont answer, you are avoiding, while if you address the questions you are being overly aggressive or attacking vehemently with little reasoning if you actually vote, while in this case I'm attacking a popular target without attaching a vote.
You can't lose can you? Got an attack for everything

*Eyebrow*

Umm no. The thing is I never said any of those things. The fact is you are attacking VP while not putting a vote down. If you agree that VP really

knew

Vi's alignment then in your eyes he should be scum shouldn't he? It's like you don't even believe the stuff you're saying and can't bring yourself to vote for whatever reason. You are making it out that I have put you in a situation where you are scummy if you do and scummy if you don't. I did not.

I'll say again that this game needs nights. We all start shooting each other nothing good is going to happen.

[Sotty7]

Scroll up and you'll see I am. For someone who is posting a lot and claiming to be pushing the game forward you don't seem to know a whole lot about what is going down Ben.

[Sotty7]

You make an excellent point about that honestly. You could even add the mod in there.

I could do a d3x or Nacho vote.

[Sotty7]

Ecto, I am dissing Vi as you say because her play after she got shot the second time was just awful, she knows this and basically admitted it in her last post:

I do think you're town Vi, but very pissed that you're just shooting.

Speaking as the Grateful Dead, being very pissed is a gamewide sentiment. Just imagine how I feel reading d_j 501.

Not that that excuses anything I've done ITT, but etc. I'd actually like to retcon this entire game >.>

Now I am not saying everything she did was bad, I think we can look at all the stuff up until she was shot a second time, but after that she was just having a little temper tantrum. Can hardly blame her considering how others are playing in this thread but that's how I read it.

Now you basically said that because Vi flipped town you want to go back and read what she had to say, I have no issue with that but you were the one that built a big case on Vi based on those posts. You thought that what she did and said was scummy enough to shoot her a second time to make sure she ended up dead. Townie or not shouldn't that mean that you just disagree with Vi in this game? Knowing her alignment should change your mind too much, unless you want to admit you were completely wrong and she was completely right. It just felt like you were getting ready to appeal to her authority.

I am not trying to goad you into voting for VP, I just don't see the reason your vote isn't active. Outside of VP, who else do you suspect?

I do agree with you on the Mod, he/they need to check in and give us a little guidance. A replacement Nacho wouldn't be too bad either. As for d3x, he is pretty much active lurking IMO he hasn't committed on the whole Vi/ecto/VP thing yet and seems to be very content to sit back while the rest of us battle it out. It's simply not good enough.

[Sotty7]

Ben what do you think of VP's post 627? You seemed to just ignore it. As for me I am happy with my vote on Ecto. We desperately need some mod power too

[Sotty7]

Ben I mean the huge chunk of it directed at Ecto. What do you think about what VP said about him? Why are you unwilling to vote Ecto?

[Sotty7]

I guess Ecto isn't as elusive as he thought/claimed.

Nacho, what resolution are you talking about?

[Sotty7]

I am down for that actually.

[Sotty7]

And consider yourself avenged great Vi in the sky.

Very much this.

I feel tempted to vote for Don after Ecto's flip. The token vote on Ecto for a couple of hours feels pretty weak looking back. Scum could also be easily sitting in the lurker pile. Looking very much at the d3x spot.

Also welcome Cobalt. Hopefully we get a few more replacements up in here.

[Sotty7]

Saw some buddying, (looks at Sotty's scumlist, especially recently) and the case against me was obviously bogus; and Sotty agreeing with it rather blindly is a big indicator for me.

Details please. I was a big part of actually making the case on you, I wasn't “agreeing” if anything I was building and expanding on it. Your case is pretty bogus too, so I guess we have that point in common.

There are a lot of little things that make a lot of the actives seem like they should be town; so I'm all for going after a lurker. NM8 shooting ecto with the fakeclaim makes him look good, so who's the replacement for d3x? That's my current #2 that I don't have any major points to make myself doubt their alignment.

And yet... You vote for me?

For Sotty, I do see her as scum. Obviously I know that the case against me is bogus; and at the height of the "suspicion" against me or whatever you want to call it. To agree with such a weak case (by Ecto), while also putting Ecto at #2 (end of ISO 26). This was a major point that I saw in my brief readthrough last night. The only way both of us being scum makes sense is if Ecto is bussing me. Obviously I know that's not the case, but I didn't see any reasoning from Sotty that that was the case. Personal example: in the recently finished Twitter Mafia (Hi Cobalt) I put both my partners as #2-3 on my suspect list in various stages in the game. Obviously I wanted to keep them around, but should the need arise to bus them; it wouldn't look suspicious.

You still haven't pointed out the mistakes ecto made. I am still interested in what they are and have asked you a couple of times to list them. Ecto's case didn't make me vote Vi, but I still think it was a solid effort. What made me really start to think Ecto was scum was after the Vi flip he suddenly wanted to go back and re-read Vi as if she played the game great and we should listen to her. That made it pretty clear he didn't believe in his own case.

Also, you are using something you did as scum to make me look scummy? That doesn't really work seeing as we're not the same person.

Being on V/LA should not really affect what I have done in anybody's eyes since my actions are still my actions. Since I've been gone, she's not really shown continued suspicion of what she didn't like about me (namely, the "emotional" response).

Seriously?

I read the game you linked for meta and gave you the benefit of the doubt. I basically think I understand what you were trying to tell me. This is why I moved from you to Ecto, progression of suspicions.

Her twisting of my vote on you {VP} in 26 is really bad enough that I wouldn't expect it to come from town. 28 is amazingly weak: she {Sotty} had Ecto as #2 in suspicion, then said that the shot was horrible (in 27). She then makes excuses for Ecto shooting so that she {Sotty} wouldn't have to upgrade Ecto to above me in her suspicion list. (Clearly, cause I'm still the one she would shoot in 31).

What twisting? Detials....

I had ecto in my number two suspicion and then he shot Vi, I called his shot horrible... Yeah that sounds logical to me. I made no excuses for Ecto. His shot was horrible and is still horrible.

In 35, she says that Ecto is reaching "just a tad" (exact quote) but it's worth it to jump Ecto over me in Sotty's list. I don't see how Sotty really explained why anything she said in 35 made Ecto scum, just points against logic instead of questioning about it. Top of 36, she goes back to semi-defending Ecto again. It's just stuff like this that alerted me that Sotty easily could be Ecto's partner. I mentioned it a while ago too (when Vi asked for who was the third of Ecto and ??? (can't remember off the top of my head) I said Sotty and dj said I was reading his mind). So it's not just an isolated incident; but it does come from a full game view.

This is weak for reasons above. Also I had my vote on Ecto this whole time while questioning others. You are basically accusing me of bussing on the assumption I defended Ecto. I didn't.

Amished you are really reaching on a lot of this case. I think your issue is with how I dropped my suspicion on you. Well for one I haven't abandoned it completely, considering the weakness of the case you have made I still very much have my eye on you. However, I took in the game you provided, read it and made a judgment call on you. I don't think we should be lynching you today or before a d3x slot lynch.

You are also basically trying to give me too much credit by creating an elaborate bussing plan. There is plenty other players that are more likely to be Ecto's partner. DJ and Ben for example. You dismiss them by saying scum wouldn't be so obvious. I don't think you should just give them a pass like that, sometimes people are scummy because they are scum.

---

DJ has been very quiet since Ecto's flip. I really want to hear from him. Same with Ben.

[Sotty7]

how does what feel?

I also just remembered something prior about Amished...I think he might flip town actually. I want to hear from him first, but I think I know what his role might be.

Pretty much this.

VP is not the lynch today guys. Seriously.

[Sotty7]

Neither is Cobalt.... Sadly.

[Sotty7]

If you have no wincon, why do you want to lynch VP for his?

[Sotty7]

Okay. We have only two days left till deadline. With the Amished kill being fake, I think we should lynch the d3x player slot. He posted in his other game yesterday and I think he is more likely to be scum than any of the other lurkers. Pretty much all of the active posters I believe to probably be town for one reason or another. I could probably do a Don lynch, but he has flashes of townie at times to me.

Vote: d3x

[Sotty7]

In other news:
@Sotty: What are the flashes of town you saw from dj?

It is mostly a gut thing, which is why I keep going back and forth on him. Post 69 and 70 in his ISO recently. He goes from bad play to showing me that there is potential for him to be town. I don't have an issue with his lynch though, mainly because he will always be a question for me.

@Sotty: I'll get to you and the mistakes that you agreed with. Don't know why I'm bothering since Ecto is dead and *confirmed scum*, but I will.

You know what this can wait for now. I just wanted to see if I was wrong or not with Ecto's attempt at a case.

[Sotty7]

I will admit to basically ignoring Don when it has come to his votes on me. He really hasn't built anything in the ways of a case. I am also just coming off a game were we were basically day masons and he drew a lot of attention his way in a some what similar fashion. The really truly scummy thing about him to me was his weak hop on and then hop of Ecto's wagon. The rest of his play, I am sorry to say, feels like my experience with DonTown.

The FOS thing is also pretty ridiculous. In my opinion at least.

[Sotty7]

If you did an ISO of me properly you would know when amished became "town"

I haven't been active lurking. I have taken stances on all of the major points in this game. I have said Ben is likely town, VP too. I voted Ecto, I took a position on Ecto v Vi. I have said you are probably town. Apart from my side track on Amished for a little while I have said the scum is likely d3x pretty much for most of the game. I also stand by my call over Vi's play once she was shot a second time. It was clear she was frustrated, she tried to shoot me and I wasn't even the top player on her list.

It's my opinion you can make anyone scummy with a PBPA if you try hard enough.

[Sotty7]

Yay VP!

That game was insane to watch at the end. Wow..!

[Sotty7]

Also, why'd you guys have to kill Sotty! We only needed one more day to really mess you up.

This!

I was not expecting to die at all. I'm guessing it was because I was onto d3x but still it made me sad. I never got to shoot

Huge thanks to Vi for taking over modding duties in this game. Without her this probably would have been mod abandoned along time ago. Thanks Vi <3

[Sotty7]

The early VP suspicion was pretty crap really. When it started to build steam, I PM'ed Hohum to make sure I knew 100% that VP was town and then started to subtly defend him.

When that didn't work I started to be more obvious... And when THAT didn't work I took out the hammer and started to beat VP IS TOWN as loud as I could.

When I died I thought he would be pretty much confirmed once he claimed his role with how I acted to him.

lol, after awhile I don't think we could have been any more obvious about being partners without wearing matching T-shirts.

I want one of those shirts

[Sotty7]

props to this guy ^^ for making it so far. awesome gag with breadcrumbing the "drunk".

sorry sotty.

I agree that pwns played well. The breadcrumb thing was a pretty awesome idea.

And don't sweat it Don, it all worked out for the good in the end