Mini 884 - Last Man Standing (Over)

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/confirmano

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vote: d3x

He's got lyin' eyes.

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My favorite classic western is Rio Bravo.

Yup. Right down to the cheesy songs.

For A Few Dollars More or The Wild Bunch for classic

I knew there was a reason we got along. For A Few Dollars More is my favourite of the Dollars trilogy. The Wild Bunch is just brilliant.

I love westerns. Love them. The quoted movies, Tombstone, Silverado, The Magnificent Seven, Unforgiven, High Plains Drifter, Shane, Assault on Precinct 13 [/slight cheat] are among my favourites. The best western EVER is obviously Once Upon A Time In The West. *The haunting warble of a harmonica abounds*

On a more game related note:

I like what's being said in this post. Enough to vote.

unvote. vote: nm8

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My apologies guys, things have been crazy busy. Here's some catch up posting from me (Kinda putting together as I go, so bear with me). More to follow after work.

I don’t like this post. I don’t like that Benmage doesn’t seem to be paying attention to the very little play that has transpired so far. I really don’t like that he doesn’t seem to be paying attention to the details of the bandwagon that he joined. This was a pretty huge gaffe for a simple memory failure. He ignores Ecto entirely (even though he quotes a link to Ecto’s argument) and then possibly tries to hide his band-wagoning behind my band-wagoning.

I have absolutely no idea what Sotty7 and nm8 are talking about when they refer to d3x's questioning as intense. It was one sidestepped question and everything subsequent to that has been about getting (or not getting, as the case may be) an answer about it. That's hardly putting anyone's feet to the fire, and the whole thing probably would have been solved with a straight answer. It feels like the pair of them are exaggerating d3x's actions.
@nm8:

In answer to your questions...

1) No.
2) It certainly can, but it’s not always the case. Sometimes a player is just a bellicose jerk, or useless, or is uncommonly phobic of giving a straight answer etc etc. Pressure gets applied and then you find out who you are dealing with.
3) No, I don’t think it is that simple. I think there was legitimate enough reasons to vote you (see below) and I would not dismiss it in such a way. That said, town generally shouldn’t care about the appearance of their actions so much; so, it is concerning that Ecto feels the need to safeguard against an OMGUS accusation rather than just let the case stand on its own. If that makes sense to you?
4) Not clearly, no. What interests me is less the initial vote and more the subsequent responses. It piques my interest that you chose to sidestep a simple enough question about the vote and then try and wedge d3x by drawing a long bow with some wordplay. Your reply to pwnz plays a part as well. Why ask for votes on a non-serious wagon?

...it illustrates a mindset of a player who does not wish to divulge any information or be held to a specific opinion.

This is pretty much encapsulates why I was happy to vote for you. It’s a bit less about apparent scum motive and about a lack of town motive behind your behaviour. If another player is not sure what your stance is, doesn’t it benefit a townie to be clear? When someone asked you to clarify one of your posts, you started an interrogation (by your standards) of your own which seems a little defensive to me. You then seemed inconsistent in your responses about your vote. So, you got a vote.

doesn’t read well, either. The disconnect

Oh dear.
Except that this isn’t a helpful, pro-town attitude and it will lose you support. Like so.

Unvote. Vote: benmage

FoS: Confidanon

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Bah. Stupid messed up tags. Working now.

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Pwnz

• Pwnz’s attitude and subsequent explanation are a little suspicious to me. I’m not really sure what the benefit is in sandbagging for four posts, and then starting to provide the very kind of arguments that he decries in his first two posts. [LINKS]. This looks less like sandbagging and more like sitting out until he got attention for it.

Sotty7

• I think there is a whole lot of misrepresentation coming from Sotty in this post. The word ‘necessarily’ is pretty key in that sentence, and Sotty ignoring it allows her to call scum on d3x for having an attitude he didn’t hold. Then the whole blowing things out of proportion is, ironically, blowing d3x’s actions out of proportion. Scumtastic.
• We get a lot of questions but very little analysis is delivered. Case in point. These guys are ok, these guys need to post and the rest are question marks. Way to avoid giving a concrete response.

Benmage

•

He explained himself. Me putting him at L-2 will make him come out and defend himself, if he fails to do so properly he hangs. Its fairly simple.

From this post. I’m not entirely sure what you are expecting Confid to come out and defend himself against, if he has already explained his actions and you’ve done nothing (beyond voting) to challenge that. You are either voting because you think his play is demonstrably scummy or because you’re trying to pressure him into explaining his actions. Your words say you’re doing one thing, but your play says another. (Unlike, say, VP you aren’t actually doing any of the due diligence in attacking the response, you just act like you are.) Reeks of opportunistic scuminess.
• What Benmage is talking about here doesn’t make any sense. Surely reading Confid in iso would have only served to highlight the scummy attitude. If he was actually looking it would have been apparent, instead he flip-flopped when he saw a popular standpoint. Also, way to try and cheaply undercut the wagon at the end there.

• I’m also bothered by this change of attitude regarding the whole “scummy-town” thing. Benmage’s attitude is initially:

One thing that struck me as peculiar was him saying nacho is more scummy town..than scummy scum...whats the difference there...??

In this post.
Then he takes a different stance in his next post. A Stance that has gone some way to forming his read of ConfidAnon.

But than he calls him scummy town, not scummy scum…tough reach there. Scummy town to me is usually referencing players playing poorly/badly…its early for that deduction. So a little confused by his statements.

He doesn’t see a difference to begin with (while he was downplaying the Confidwagon) but in his very next post he sees a difference and that makes Confid likely scum.

And now he is starting to reach against nm8. The response to the 3rd vote comment in no way indicates that nm8 is sweating. In fact, it is more likely to suggest the reverse imo.

Benmage or Sotty are my current suspects. I'm going to revisit Confid. I'll let you know.

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I was going to put a preamble up there but got all excited an hit the post button. Anyhoo, my apologies but work has been slaughtering me. It's primarily because of all this hysteria about a chick who can't decide if she'd rather screw a corpse or a dog. The above were some notes I took as I reread the whole game (the joys of falling behind) and I'll be more active in the next week thanks to five days off. Winner. Also, I'd like to say: After playing in a couple of games together, I am just learning that VP is a woman. This does not bode well for my attention to detail.

Back on game:

There could be something under this rock. Amished, explain why there is a good reason to assume 3rd party.
From my standpoint, if you are town, then you are looking for scum in general. Im not certain how you could differentiate between the tow on day 1, so looking for your explanation. The bad side is that while town is looking for scum in general, scum would be looking for 3rd party if they exist, and your post can be interpreted as scum fishing for 3rd parties.

You've lost me here. Why would scum be expecting a 3rd party?

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And I forgot to add links to pwnz response. Premature posting is a serious problem that we should be more willing to talk about in the locker room.

Iso 1

Iso 4

These are what I was referencing.

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ebwop: i am not sure what is more annoying: giant fucking quote walls or players who repeatedly link to other posts.

I hate the links. Put the relevant material in the post and if I have to scroll past it, so be it. The only time links are ok is when they reference material outside the game.

Jesus, can you guys be more passive aggressive about it? No? I didn't think so.

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Just had a wisdom tooth out and I'm a little fuzzy-headed. Not sure what to make of dj shooting Vi... I'm not sure that it'd make a lot of sense for mafia to have day and night kills (But I have a terrible mind for mechanics). Benmage is still a lynch candidate.

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As far as any case on VPB goes, i'll try and reread her today...the meta thing is simply her playstyle not resembling what i'm use to you when shes town.

But will look deeper here.

I actually have to agree with this. VP is playing an odd game at the moment (for the record: I've only played a couple of games with VP, and Baltsy was town in both. Very active, very thorough town.) Your PBPA post is actually quite compelling Benmage. I'm not sure it clears you entirely, but it's a solid case that shows you aren't just an opportunistic voter. Unvote.

Not sure about the bus into chainsaw move. It's possible (though an extreme long shot considering the healing) but couldn't it indicate that VP may be 3rd party? (S)he is Still trying to secure an easy lynch but comes in with some cheap, blinkered scumhunting on another member in the bandwagon to keep up apperances (and lay a smokescreen for their own opportunistic bandwagoning). If VP is scum of the mafia variety, then Sotty is almost certainly a scumbuddy.

In other news: Amished, dj, vi and CA are all positive reads on my end.

I'd be pretty much floored if there wasn't a Cop role of some sort in the mix (how helpful they are is another matter).

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Bah.

Unvote

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Why those two in particular, Amished?

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Sorry about my absence guys, I've been unpacking, repacking and then moving boxes in the sweltering Australian heat. It sucks a whole bunch and there is nothing (NOTHING) worse than waiting on a tardy builder.

@VP: In my opinion, Benmage has made a valid point that you aren’t playing as committed a game as expected from TownVP. It has nothing to do with an absence of posting lately, and everything to do with what you have contributed thus far. To portray this as being a case of “VP isn’t doing our work for us” is completely sidestepping the issue. Sorry if it is frustrating, but the quality of your play (here and elsewhere) is responsible.

What I find compelling (enough to unvote him since he demonstrated some pro-town play there, though subsequent posts have been a little disheartening) about Ben’s PBPA is that he’s identified you as attacking him for something that you yourself are guilty of. Laying aside the nm8 issue, which Bm deserved to be scrutinised for (despite what he says). Your initial argument is that he joins wagons without original thought (which is an accusation that can be levelled against you in regards to Confid). It’s not until Bm challenges you on this point that your reasons shift to him flip-flopping around the isoreads. And crying foul of suspicion, in the way that you did, is doing you no favours either.
What do you make of Ecto’s shooting?

@Ben: Right now, you’re seemingly putting forth the position that you should shoot dj even though you understand that he’s likely town, is that right? Your whole attitude here seems to suggest that you’ve forgotten about Confid.

I’m thinking it might be a good idea to shoot, or lynch, Ecto at this point. I’m not against his case on Vi but his claim is a little troubling. I have a feeling that if scum can daykill they wouldn’t be bad shots and his claim could be cover for that.

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Ectomancer, why are you suddenly in favor of going to Nightless after saying using that very same suggestion as being obvious evidence of my sinister intent?

This is a very good question, especially since his switch came right after he shot someone and revealed that his shooting... style(?) was different.

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It's also... not particularly convincing.

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@Vi: What do you think of Ecto's claim?

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Also, your last comment about Sotty was that you had a town-read on her. Could you elaborate further as to what changed your mind.

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Vi is right, that is not how it happened. The pressure first came from Vi (around 181, although Vi was sniping at him from earlier) and then you (Sotty) started on Amished at... 193. You voted first, but Vi had made the case.

Hmm, while Schrödinger's Sotty may go some way to proving how lethal a shot Ecto is... I'm more concerned with what it might say about his alignment.

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Up to my arse in boxes at the moment, I'm going to give Ecto a reread (and god knows what else) and post in the morning. My apologies for the inconvenience.

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@Pork/Ecto Who are your guys main suspects, and what are your opinions on VPB specifically?

@Porkchop-who the hell do you think is scum? I haven't seen much of anything from you that couldn't be considered poking and prodding from the sidelines. I have been holding back on you for a bit because I know you're a good town player, but posts like 468 seem to come up frequently from you this game.

Yeah, I’m getting totally pantsed by this game. I’m having a hard time getting any freaking purchase at all, feeling more than a little outclassed and it’s all very frustrating. I’ve reread the thread a bunch of times and it gives me a migraine. But, here goes...

@VP RE: Benmage vote.

I’m not in the mood to go around in circles on this, but that is not what you accused him of in the first place. To begin with, you accused him of following wagons with no original thought (Iso 17) and then, after Ben’s reply when he points out that you’ve done the same thing on the Confid wagon, you focussed on his mistake-riddled NM8 vote and his eagerness to vote before Confid “has even had a chance to explain himself”. That last part isn’t true either, since ConFid had already explained himself (post 120), and Ben had referenced that in the posts that you objected to. So far you’ve: hypocritically accused Ben of unoriginal voting, you’ve reframed the issue when you were called on it, and then you’ve erroneously accused him on rushing a vote. Hell, even in that quote of mine you dropped the part where I mentioned this the first time around and then replied that your later reasoning was what you were saying from the get go, as if I didn’t cover it at all. (So, in this case, I explained why I thought you were being hypocritical and you basically said ‘nah uh’.) This is why Ben’s isoread was compelling. My instinct that you were playing oddly just got me looking in your direction is all. Did I miss anything here?

Vote: VP Baltar

RE: The Ecto Vote.

Previous to your PoE, you mentioned him about a sum total of three times. You dismissed the NM8 wagon (indirect mention in iso 4), you threatened Ecto with a lynch for ignoring questions (iso 9) and then you asked him for non-NM8 related opinions (iso 14). You offered a case when you mentioned your PoE (pre Vi shot) but evidently you were delayed in putting up. When you did post an argument it ended up being about Ecto’s post-shooting play. I’d like to know what was tipping you off earlier.

I don’t think Ecto’s interaction with Ben (about shooting dj) is fear-mongering in the slightest. Ben’s said on more than a few occasions that he thinks dj is likely town, and on more than a few other occasions that he was going to shoot or lynch him. Trying to lynch someone you believe to be town (but is gunning for you) is horrendously bad play, worse than just shooting them even. Challenging this position isn’t scummy. Telling someone to act on their suspicions (if they have any) isn’t scummy. If anything, dj is working harder to get Benmage to shoot him than anyone else in the game. It feels like you’re misrepresenting Ecto here.

Frankly, I don’t know why Vi claiming Vanilla while she was wounded is such an important detail. Are you telling me that you’d expect scum to have given up their alignment because they were wounded (even before Confid revealed himself)? Was that were your town read of Vi came from? Simply that there’s no reason not to believe a deathbed claim?

Your vote seems pretty weak to me and your case is incomplete.

RE: Ecto’s Case on Vi and his shooting

Yeah, I didn’t articulate this very well. I don’t think it was an incorrect explanation of Vi’s play but I had a town feeling coming from Vi based off of the gun/bad shot talk (of course, Ecto wouldn’t have been able to use this even if he is town). I also have a terrible mind for hypothetical mechanics, so I was having trouble with the idea that scum could have daykills without skewing the game balance. My first thought was that there would have to be some sort of disincentive for scum to shoot up the place (which is why I thought their accuracy might be a tip off). I hadn’t considered the possibility that everyone might have a chance of missing (bad shots greater than others) or the like. So, I was concerned about the mechanics of Ecto’s play rather than his case.

Suspects are currently VP (scummy interaction with Ecto and Ben) and Pwnz (he’s pretty much actively lurking at this point.) Some of the hardcore buddying between Sotty and VP has me slightly suspicious of her.

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Oh, megapost apologies etc.

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Looks like I’m up the creek a bit. I was way off on Ecto and VP, and I’m now among the front runners for Ecto’s buddy. Ah well, it’s all a day at the races I suppose.

RE: Benmage and the rest.
Yes, my opinions have changed as the game progressed. Which shouldn’t be surprising. Ben’s iso of you showed that he was capable of making his own cases (which was one mark against him) and rereading Ben gave me the sense that the Confid thing was less scummy and more sloppily articulated. That’s why I unvoted, I didn’t vote you until later because I wanted to reread for myself.

Other things I will address from Porkchops voting post on me.

Trying to lynch someone you believe to be town (but is gunning for you) is horrendously bad play, worse than just shooting them even.

What? Getting town killed is bad any way you put it. At least with trying to get someone lynched, the rest of the town acts as a buffer against someone's obvious OMGUS behaviour.

Gunning for someone that you don’t think is scum doesn’t make sense, regardless of how you go about it. That’s the point. That’s why I didn’t have a problem with Ecto hassling Ben over the issue.

Ecto telling ben and dj to essentially shoot it out is outrageously scummy. Ecto isn't agree with one or the other being scummy, he's simply the pre-pubescent poindexter on the outer ring of the crowd shouting "Fight! Fight! Fight!"

The question I couldn’t answer was this: Given all of the goading that dj was doing, why wouldn’t scumEcto just let it play out? And I still maintain that Benmage’s stance that he’d shoot dj for self-preservation was ridiculous and would only muddy the waters. The way I saw it, Ecto was forcing Ben to account for a poor plan. I was wrong, evidently.

What legitimate benefit does a scum receive from fakeclaiming town when he or she believes they are dead?

The Wounded status clearly didn’t work like Twilight and could be enough of a tip off to players that there is a way to cheat death. Or at least give them the impression that it is worth playing the off chance that they can.

So if you had a town read off of her bad shot talk, why should I doubt her claim? You're not even being consistent in the same post any longer.

Not exactly what I was getting at, as I recall. Vi’s claim while wounded was not a very good argument against Ecto, regardless of our read. If you follow the thinking from my end: the only reason I had that read was due to a part of the PM that Ecto claimed was different (while claiming town). My doubts about that were summarily dismissed or ignored.

hardcore buddying? really? I'm not allowed to have a town read on her? Also, what do town reads on each other mean until you actually know someone's alignment? Absolutely nothing.

Much the same way you were up my arse before Ecto flipped. I’m looking for anything I can get a handle on in this game. It’s less from you to Sotty and more from Sotty to you, anyway. There were a few times where Sotty stepped up to the plate in your name, and her response to Ben’s PBPA shows the same sort of inconsistency that’s raised your ire at me.

In other news:
@Sotty: What are the flashes of town you saw from dj?

There is no way in hell that VP was bussing Ecto. If there was a bus going on at that point, I think it’s likely to have come from nm8 or dj with his seemingly disinterested Ecto vote because VP (the guy he was voting previous to that) told him to.

The best lynch options are going to be between dj, Pwnz, d3x and nm8. Dj was on and off the Ecto wagon in scummy fashion. Ben studiously avoided providing an opinion on Ecto. Pwnz’ lurking is basically malicious at this point. D3x is just an empty shirt. nm8's shot is suspicious, and could be a way to cut his buddy Ecto loose since he seemed to be pretty screwed at that point.

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Ah yes,

unvote.

vote: don_johnson

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Hi Jazzmyn.

@ben-I agree it's powerful...but so is a cop/doc combo (if Cobalt is telling the truth).

Why are you auto-assuming marshal = cop?

Without putting too fine a point on it: that's what a cop was in the West. What the hell is Amished's reasoning for voting VP?

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Sorry about the belated responses, but a builder is renovating my room and my 'puter has to be all unplugged sometimes. Frustrating? Well, you don't have to live with it. Anyhoo...

I would like Amished to answer Sotty’s question from yesterday. I’m getting some suspicious sensations from the way he kept sidestepping her request for details and don’t think the issue should be dropped just because she isn’t around anymore.

Pwnz has done nothing to garner a positive read. He contributed nothing to the Ecto wagon, despite having his vote there for longer than anyone. His current tact of saying there aren’t defences against baseless attacks pretty much highlights what is wrong with his play. Waiting around to defend himself is not helpful to the town at all. Of all the lurkers we have/had, I’d label him as scummiest and he wouldn’t be a waste of a shot or a lynch.

Similarly, D3x is hard to account for, but given that he’s been replaced I think that his drop in activity is indicative of nothing. His early play surrounding the Ecto/Nacho thing just might contain trace elements of distancing (Iso 8). His tentative suspicion of Ecto subsequent to the Vi shooting was built on a pretty flimsy non-issue that left him in a position where he didn’t really give a read of Ecto, one way or the other which leaves me mildly suspicious of the slot but there isn’t much to go off here. I’d need to see more from Jazz (but I enjoy the colour).

Nm8 remains a ringer for me. Considering how Ecto had one foot in the grave, I’m still of the opinion that it would have benefitted his partners to put him out of everyone’s misery. Especially as he was copping flak for dropping off the radar. This goes doubly so if scum aren’t necessarily lethal shots.

@nm8: What about d3x/Jazz enables you to buy scum despite your town read?

@Jazz: Expand on Amished suspicions, please.

@Ben: I believe it has been some time since we’ve heard who you suspect. Reads, please.

@Amished: Is your case against Jazz/d3x the same as yesterday?

@pwnz: What do you make of nm8's shot of Ecto? Or the dj lynch?

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I'm not entirely sure who you think is scum at the moment. Your reads (of players)

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@Amished: You wouldn't be able to link us to an example would you?

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I think that Amished not mentioning Pwnz might just be more damning of Pwnz, albeit indirectly. This is what his playstyle is trying to achieve.

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So, is Jazz scummy to you then Pwnz?

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Ooh, put me down for willing to shoot Pwnz.

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It's probably a good idea to make sure that different people are shooting every time. In fact, it's probably a good idea for everyone to say whether or not they are a weak shot/strong shot before the fact.

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I said I'd buy scum

in that group

, not anything more than that.

And d3x/Jazz is in that group. So it stands to reason that you'd buy that slot as scum despite your current town read, doesn't it? So I want to know why (even if you find it less likely than Ben or Pwnz).

I shot Ecto because he dared me to, which is something I tend to do as scum much more often than I do as town, so I figured it was a pretty safe bet. Also, deadline was coming up, and I wanted to get in a lynch on top of that shot. That's the reasoning that I had, but you can believe what you want; neither side can prove either way, so arguing about it will get us nowhere.

We're waiting for you to respond to VP's request in post 893

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I say we shoot Jazz and then hang nm8 if she flips scum. Thoughts?

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By we, I meant "I really want to use my gun at some point".

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Ok, I'm a weak shot. Not really sure what to make of Jazz's shot just there. Still thinking the course of action is to shoot Jazz. If she's town, then Pwnz is buggered. If she's mafia, Pwnz is cleared and we move on from there.

@Jazz: You're going to need to explain 945 because right now it smells suspect.

Currently:
VP is a Strong shot.
nm8 is a weak shot.
PE is a weak shot.
Cobalt has no shot.
Amished is unclaimed (although I'm fairly sure he implied it)
Benmage is unclaimed.
Pwnz is no shot.
Jazz is unclaimed.

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Amished, I thought you were of the opinion that Cowboys were more likely strong shots (and that there might be a strong shot townie as some sort of flavoured miller). Have you changed your position on that stance?

I'm not entirely sure how worried you can be about PRs, since we've lost our Marshal (probably cop), Cobalt is confirmed Doc/Healer thing, and Pwnz has claimed his watcher role. None of which were outed by this issue, by the by. How many more protown PRs are you expecting?

I still want Benmage to claim his shooting skill when he gets back.

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If Jazz is scum the first thing I want is to hear from Benmage.

The whole bulletproof vest thing confounds me. The mod flavour seems to indicate that this actually did happen, but Cobalt still being wounded works against this. Hmm, maybe Jazz is the sheriff (garnering her the additional ability) but the vest is only truly effective against weak shots and reduces lethal shots to wounding shots? It's all a bit moot now, I suppose.

@Amished: Alright. So, the case against VP is what you outlined in 814?

Also, the sides in the D1 argument were d3x/Ecto vs nm8. Ben and I joined the former. Sotty, VP and you came down on the latter. Pwnz didn't comment.

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Shoot: Jazzmyn

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That should speed things along

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Put me down for nm8 going first as well. Unlike Amished, I'm not put off by the early Day 1 interaction between d3x, Ecto and nm8. Especially since (once Ecto moved his vote) the whole thing was dropped with barely a look back (especially from nm8 who then shifted focus on to Benmage without another word about Ecto). After his absence d3x reentered the fold and continued it, but despite a "scum read" on nm8 he chose to focus on Ben and dj until he flaked.

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Well, that covers a few things for me. It explains the Sotty/VP day 1, it explains VP towards me in Day 2, and it probably explains why VP was so dubious of a strong shot vig in town (of course, Ecto had other marks against him). The only thing that could make sense of why town has so many PRs is that scum could get 4 kills a day (going off the belief of a 3 scum team)...

We have seen a strong shot in action because Ecto did not wound Vi, by the by. That's why the whole strong shot/weak shot stuff started. Vi hit the ground dead (and after he fired the shot Ecto claimed that he was a lethal shooter). It was dj who wounded Vi before Cobalt protected her. However, this recent turn of events (happening as I was typing) suggests that strong shots can also just hurry along time of death as well. Evidently there is a slightly random element to them.

Alright... if we're lucky one of our two dying hombres here is scum and that's that. But luck will get you so far and then it'll get you dead, so if both are town will we institute the plan we had yesterday when Cobalt fakeshot Amished? If they're both town and Benmage was a one shot cop... then I think we have to seriously consider that one of our PRs is a filthy rotten liar.

Also, who is up to claim?

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Yes, a no lynch is what I am talking about.

Currently we have three cops, a tracker and a daytime doc of varying elements of confirmation. If both nm8 and bm flip town, I'll be scrutinising among them.

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VP is the only person who is still armed today.

benmage is being incredibly quiet for a claimed townie who is running out of time. ben, you never posted your catch up. What's going on?

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VP, skin that smokewagon and get to work.

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I had a terrible game. My apologies to all.

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I'm leaning Pwnz here, simply because Pwnz's no shot claim doesn't match up with any of the other roles in the game. The only reason Cobalt doesn't have a gun is because he has a handy healing ability. All the other roles with night actions seem to be able to use their weapons.

I have nor claimed either.

[PorkchopExpress]

I'm just a vanilla townie.

I really don't know much about third party roles (I've played one off-site game with a Serial Killer before) so I'm pretty much running off whatever the Wiki is telling me. Could the Sheriff be a Traitor? That would fit the flavour.

How common is an investigation immune SK?

[PorkchopExpress]

Merry Christmas, everyone.

Amished makes a fair point when he says that lynching me will confirm VP's sanity, even though its a little undercut by the fact that he's willing to run with the idea of an investigation immune 3rd party (so confirming VP's sanity would be of limited use).

It seems that town is going to have this pretty well stitched up, since VP is getting protected tonight, and since it's down to me or Amished I'm happy for us to go in whichever order seems most informative.

The night plan seems solid, regardless of which one of us makes it to tomorrow.

[PorkchopExpress]

But Amished, I thought you were certain that it has to be between you and me. You were fairly sure that regardless of which one of us was lynched that town would win. What happened to that? All of a sudden, VP is scum because he didn't follow the advice that you've been offering for the past couple of pages?

Yeah, and I'd be more concerned with my own survival.

And now that someone is voting you, you are.

[PorkchopExpress]

Sorry...that plan involves pwnz dying and living. Scratch that.

Actually the plan has a version for Pwnz being the NK and one for me/Amished being the NK.

Also, "didn't follow the advice" should read: "followed the advice". Which is sort of the point really, Amished spends all this time saying it doesn't matter if he's lynched because town will win regardless and when people listen, it's scummy.

[PorkchopExpress]

It looks solid, and works to maximise the potential of town correcting any errors in judgement it makes. (We try to preserve as many guns as possible, to make sure that any audacious LYLO move by scum would be fatal). I'd adopt it if people really aren't convinced on the me/Amished divide one way or the other. Have you made anything more of the 3rd party chatter?

It seems to me that Amished revealed a scummy underside to his 'pro-town' endgame play in his latest behaviour.

I'd like to know what Pwnz thinks at this stage.

[PorkchopExpress]

So, no guilty result last night VP? Be prepared to shoot Pwnz if this all goes tits up.

Shoot: Amished.

[PorkchopExpress]

Told you I was a weak shooter.

[PorkchopExpress]

Once again, I'd like to hear from Pwnz. The only way VP works as scum is if he was unconfirmed mason with Sotty, judging from the play between the two of them on Day 1. This doesn't strike me as likely.

[PorkchopExpress]

My mind is boggled at the huge flurry of activity that occurred while I was at work/sleeping. I wasn't too far off with the traitor call on Pwnz (who'd have thought he was a traitor's traitor) and it makes sense for benmage to go down the way he did if he thought the Sheriff was still on his side.

I think what happened, Cobalt, is that since Pwnz knew the scum team he just sold out a buddy who was in serious trouble knowing full well that she'd flip scum. The scum aren't going to call him on his facts (obviously) and the gambit on Pwnz' end is that his partners will think it's an honest bus and nothing more. It was an impressive move, when you think about it.

Props to Jazz for a rather unsatisfying replacement. Props to Vi for keeping the game going.

Also, Pwnz' fake PR had impressive foresight and very believable flavour. Good stuff, man.