Newbie 869 - Game over

[SensFan]

Vote: DarkLight

You're the one stalking me!

[SensFan]

Watched Topics isn't going to give you e-mail notifications. What it will do is put the topic on a list of topics that you are, well, watching! To access your Watched Topics, just click the top-left-most link from the list of links at the top of every page, by the Mafiascum banner.

I know there's an option somewhere to subscribe to a thread, which does send you e-mail notifications. I don't use it, though, so I'm not sure how to access it. Maybe our lovely and fantastic Mod can tell you, if he knows.

Profile > Preferences Section > Always notify me of replies:

I'm not sure it actually works though. I don't use it. You're supposed to be posting once every 48 hours, at a minimum, so you should be checking the thread regularly anyway.

Vel

---

On-topic, I'm not too concerned about the wagon that formed. If this was the old Newb set-up (7 players), I'd be a lot worse, since it would have been Lynch-1 (1 vote away from a lynch), but with 2 votes still left before a lynch, I don't think there was that much of a threat of a premature lynch, especially not without a scumbag (read: Mafia) exposing themselves.

[SensFan]

Mod: Just doing some math now, and it looks likely that a deadline (for a future day) may fall somewhere in the holliday period. Will there be a possible extension in such a case, or no?

Maybe. We'll see what happens when it gets here. You guys could always talk a lot now and make a decision before the deadline comes (I know, radical thought process there, forgive me).

[SensFan]

Guys. Seriously, cool off a bit. It was L-2. That's it. There's no way 2 Town would place L-1 and hammer votes, so there was no danger of a lynch.

You guys are massively overreacting here.

[SensFan]

This is Eli's first game on-site. What does that have to do with anything?

[SensFan]

Guys. Seriously, cool off a bit. It was L-2. That's it. There's no way 2 Town would place L-1 and hammer votes, so there was no danger of a lynch.

You guys are massively overreacting here.

Scumbuddies?

Totally.

[SensFan]

I don't think it is possible that you are at L-2 on the first page, and we get two Town people not currently voting you, who decide to come in and vote you, without anyone currently voting you noticing this and unvoting.

Newbs games often end up with someone freaking out about a page 1 lynch that almost happened. Relax, you won't get lynched on page 1. And if you do, we'll nab the Scum for 'ya.

[SensFan]

I don't think it is possible that you are at L-2 on the first page, and we get two Town people not currently voting you, who decide to come in and vote you, without anyone currently voting you noticing this and unvoting.

Newbs games often end up with someone freaking out about a page 1 lynch that almost happened. Relax, you won't get lynched on page 1. And if you do, we'll nab the Scum for 'ya.

I'm not worried in the slightest, for those exact reasons. But is there any harm in asking?

Why are you overreacting if you know the same?

How am I overreacting at all? I'm saying I liked the wagon. To be honest, I looked at ths screen for quite a while last night, contemplating if I wanted to place a fourth vote.

Darklight:
Saying there's 1-2 Scum in the 3 people that put together a small wagon on the first page is insane. As I've said (and you know I'm one of the more aggressive players here), there was literally no threat of a lynch, unless the Scum came out and told us they were Scum, and lynched RPG.

[SensFan]

I have to agree with SensFan's logic on this issue...but only his logic. I'm a little skeptical of Mr. Sens defensive attitude. He did seem a little anxious to pull the attention away from Eli. It there was no danger of a quick lynch, Eli should have had ample time to defend his actions. (Which he kinda did in Post 32, two posts before Sens interjected in Post 34)

I'm the resident IC for this game. My job is to make sure you guys don't get hung up on trivial details like that. It had nothing to do with defending Eli in specific, more just pointing out why the whole logic of attacking Eli is wrong.

[SensFan]

Eli, what's the meaning of 'bussing'?

No one else answer this, please.

[SensFan]

Anything more than 10-15 pages hurts the Town far more than it helps it.
Trying to guess anything based on NKs is silly, and should never be done.

[SensFan]

Anything more than 10-15 pages hurts the Town far more than it helps it.

Depends on how you look at it. You sure are an aggressive player, so I guess you get bored...

It has nothing to do with getting bored. It has to do with far too many posts in the threar. Far too many.

As for NK speculation, why on earth would you possibly want to base anything on the one thing that Scum have 100% control over? It's insane.

[SensFan]

I'm glad you know what bussing means, Eli, but now I question the following:

@Jee: What the hell is that unexplained vote for? Bussing deer much?

Unvote, Vote jee

How in tarnation are you comfortable enough to claim that jee and deer are the two Scum, this early in the game?

[SensFan]

Vote: Elli

I don't buy that you would be this sure of yourself as Town. We're on page four, we'd be incredibly lucky to catch one Scum, let alone the pair of them.

[SensFan]

How in tarnation are you comfortable enough to claim that jee and deer are the two Scum, this early in the game?

I must say I agree with both parts there:
Elli: These two are suspicious, as are you SF.
SF: A bit early to say someone's bussing.

Elli, you're off the hook. SF, jee & deer are left.

Why are you suspicious of me?
Why is Elli "off the hook", when she is claiming to know BOTH SCUM, and her arguments that one is suspicious is based on her being right about BOTH SCUM?

[SensFan]

Why are you suspicious of me?

Because I think you're acting scummy, not to say that I haven't thought so the other games... But there's a first for everything.

Why is Elli "off the hook", when she is claiming to know BOTH SCUM, and her arguments that one is suspicious is based on her being right about BOTH SCUM?

Because I don't think she's acting scummy any more. Please include quotes to support your arguments.

I already included quotes. Please pay attention.

I'm glad you know what bussing means, Eli, but now I question the following:

@Jee: What the hell is that unexplained vote for? Bussing deer much?

Unvote, Vote jee

How in tarnation are you comfortable enough to claim that jee and deer are the two Scum, this early in the game?

---

Why do you think I'm acting scummy? Please include quotes to support your argument.

[SensFan]

It is absolutely and completely ludicrous and insane to start calling out scumpairs before we have a single Scum dead. There's no sane reason to be voting someone on Day 1 because you think they might be Scum with someone else. On Day 1, you're lucky if you happen to lynch Scum at all, since that isn't even the intended purpose.

Also, are you really saying I'm suspicious for balking at the statement that someone has caught both Scum by page 3-4? If so, I suggest you take off those tunnel-glasses you seem to where whenever you play with me; since that would be illogical and insane.

[SensFan]

Stop beating around the bush. Why am I suspicious, in your eyes? Include quotes.

Thanks.

[SensFan]

Stop beating around the bush. Why am I suspicious, in your eyes? Include quotes.

Thanks.

Your attitude towards the game is suspicious, but I know that this is a part of your meta. Don't worry. I'm on jee's tail right now.

How is my attitude towards the game suspicious?

[SensFan]

Stop avoiding the question. You've said I'm suspicious, now man up and explain yourself, with quotes.

[SensFan]

Stop avoiding the question. You've said I'm suspicious, now man up and explain yourself, with quotes.

Because you seem to be against everything. I'm explaining no further.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Do the rest of you really not see how hypocritical it is that DarkLight hounded me to explain something I already had, demanded quotes, and then refuses to explain why he thinks I'm one of the most suspicious people here?

[SensFan]

What I see:

1 You are aggressive in your posts. Whether this is on purpose or not, I don't know.
2. I have no meta on either of you.
3. Hypocritical? Is it bad of me to say that (even after being alive for 37 years) I don't understand this word well enough to agree or disagree?

1. I'm a very aggressive player, that's just how I am. Not indicative of alignment.
2. The onyl relevant meta is that in every single game (3? 4?) I have played with DLA, he has been convinced I am Scum, and tunnelled on me pretty much to the exclusion of anyone else. Every time I've been Town.
3. He is implying I'm scummy for not doing something, then refuses to do that thing himself.

[SensFan]

1. I'm a very aggressive player, that's just how I am. Not indicative of alignment.
2. The onyl relevant meta is that in every single game (3? 4?) I have played with DLA, he has been convinced I am Scum, and tunnelled on me pretty much to the exclusion of anyone else. Every time I've been Town.
3. He is implying I'm scummy for not doing something, then refuses to do that thing himself.

1. Not necessarily a bad thing.
2. Well, 4 games and you've been Town, you've got to turn up scum sometime!
3. Thanks. So, following on from that you're suggesting it makes him scummy too? No FoS or vote for him - are you just pissed about the way he's treating you? I Need to create a favourite to an online dictionary I think!

1. Agreed. Some people are loud, some are quiet. Some are cautious, some are aggressive. As long as they are playing to help the Town, don't let that colour your judgement of them.
2. That's the Gambiter's Fallacy you've got going there. I have the same chance as being Town in this game, as in every other game.
3. I do think he's scummy, very much so. I also think that Elli made a slip that indentifies her as sure, Scum, though, so my vote stays there for the time being. I don't bother with FoS.

DLA, that's not going to fly. Why would I let you get away with waiting until the post-game to explain something? What if I had told you to wait until post-game to hear about my reasoning for Elli being Scum?

[SensFan]

I also think that Elli made a slip that indentifies her as sure, Scum, though, so my vote stays there for the time being.

I'm interested about this "slip". Not trying to defend either one of you for now - I'm just curious. Care to elaborate?

Are you bothering to read the thread? I've explained it two, if not three times already.

[SensFan]

Let me guess...we'll get the reasoning for that vote in the post-game as well?

[SensFan]

I also think that Elli made a slip that indentifies her as sure, Scum, though, so my vote stays there for the time being.

I'm interested about this "slip". Not trying to defend either one of you for now - I'm just curious. Care to elaborate?

Are you bothering to read the thread? I've explained it two, if not three times already.

Is it the whole thing where you said Elli was scummy cause she thought she kept talking about bussing and scumpairs? Sorry, I figured a slip was more of just a passing comment that accidentally gave one away. Keep in mind, I am still a noob

I have a theory.

My theory is that Elli had a scumpartner mention bussing, or has read previous games where scum mention bussing, but didn't know what the term meant. So she used it, because it really doesn't make sense for her to accuse someone of bussing D1. Then when I called her on it, she looked it up.

Am I looking too hard into this?

[SensFan]

DarklightA: Why would you wait until after the game to tell us anything about someone... isnt the point to give the information so you and everyone else can have said information to make a decision to lynch... why would the information be useful at all after the fact? It's like saying you'll vote for the president after he's been elected.

The fact is that I think Sens is scummy in all games I play with him.

The solution is to realize you need a different way of reading me, not to just decide to vote me and never provide reasons.

Vote: DarkLight

I've had enough of your games.

[SensFan]

Arthur Dent: I really have one question for you. If you had facts on a person, would you vote them? Or do you only go off "gut feeling"... because that's a horrible way to go about this game, IMO.

For what its worth, I play almost entirely by gut.

[SensFan]

Stop stop stop stop stop.

You

DO NOT

use the word bus on D1. You just don't.

[SensFan]

What the hell are you talking about?

[SensFan]

The only thing hesitiating me right now is the fact that there's a chance DLA is only doing this to distract us from other suspects.

So watch out for that. I'm keeping my eye on everything to make sure.

He would only be doing that if he's Scum, so voting him is still the right move.

[SensFan]

I am not 100% convinced that DLA is Scum, but I will happily stand corrected.

If you're waiting to be 100% convinced, then you won't be voting anyone in any game you ever play.

DLA is almost certainly Scum for his play today.
Elli is almost certainly Scum for her play earlier.

[SensFan]

My other candidate right now is SensFan. He started on DLA (admittedly DLA did not help himself at all) and never let up until he got what he wanted when we lynched a townie.

Not true. I was on Ellie for several pages, and only flopped to DLA when no one else was interested in Ellie, and DLA did some ridiculous things.

Vote: Ellie

. Should have stuck to my gut yesterday.

[SensFan]

What was I supposed to do, RPG, when the player I thought was Scum wasn't doing anything to let me see where he's coming from, and the rest of the Town didn't appear to be following me? Hindsight is 20-20.

[SensFan]

If something makes sense from a Town perspective, then you can't go around calling it scummy. I could make that argument for anything "Maybe X is Scum taking advantage of wanting to look hesitant to lynch DLA!" etc...

[SensFan]

I would like to ask SensFan a question;

What do you think of Mr Finch's post 36?

Read my post 40.

[SensFan]

What else is there? He made an obvious joke, I responded in kind. It was quite clearly not intended as serious by either of us.

[SensFan]

Mod:

Is there any chance at all that there can be some sort of extended holliday deadline or something? I'm not sure how much access, if any, I'll have between Christmas and New Year's.

[SensFan]

Sens: Does your thinking that I'm scum come solely from the fact that I suggested jee and deer were mafia?

I've explained it. I think you used a word without knowing what it meant, and then most likely scenario for you having heard that word is from a scumbuddy.

The definition of bussing doesn't even really fit the context of your post, quite apart from it being insane to accuse someone for bussing that early in the game.

[SensFan]

Where else have you heard the word bussing, without the meaning?

[SensFan]

Under what context had you seen the word bussing to mean what you thought it meant?

[SensFan]

I know it looks like nothing to you guys, but trust me. I've played in countless Newb Games, and I know a slip when I see one. I'm 99% positive she's Scum.

[SensFan]

Sorry, this has bugged me the whole game and I am surprised that Elli hasn't corrected it already:

I know it looks like nothing to you guys, but trust me. I've played in countless Newb Games, and I know a slip when I see one. I'm 99% positive

He's

Scum.

Of course this assumes that Elli really does have a winky and isn't lying scum!

Whoops, my bad
My buddy's girlfriend is named Elli, so with the way Elli's name is shortened, I assumed you were a girl. My mistake!

Back to the game, that's what you said (in more words) about DLA and he flipped town.

Ok, it might be a scumtell, but from what I have seen so far it's not a huge tell for someone that has mostly been said to have a pro-town attitude. We can't discount the theory that he may be scum as there's two dead townies and no dead scum.

I think you're mixing things up. DLA was scummy because he was going out of his way to be obnoxious and useless. Elli has dropped a slip, and from my experience playing with countless Newbs, I know a slip when I see one.

The fact he used the term bussing without knowing what it meant means he saw it somewhere in a context that wasn't clear what it meant. I don't think he would get that mix-up if he actually read a game, I think it's vastly more likely he was reading about tips for playing as Scum and came across the term.

[SensFan]

Sens - most vocal

Just pointing out that this is more important than you may realize. If I'm the most vocal, it's not unusual for me to commmit the most 'scumtells', due to sheer volume of content.

[SensFan]

I know it looks like nothing to you guys, but trust me. I've played in countless Newb Games, and I know a slip when I see one. I'm 99% positive she's Scum.

That may be true but we can't just charge into another mislynch with only that.

The fact he used the term bussing without knowing what it meant means he saw it somewhere in a context that wasn't clear what it meant. I don't think he would get that mix-up if he actually read a game, I think it's vastly more likely he was reading about tips for playing as Scum and came across the term.

How is this a fact? Where does he admit to using the word without knowing what it means. You assumed he did, asked him what it meant, and Elli produced an answer that was correct. And in my opinion, he was using it correctly.

See below

From Elli:

@Jee: What the hell is that unexplained vote for? Bussing deer much? Unvote, Vote jee

in reference to me voting for Deer without explination. He thought I was trying to attack a teammate in order to distance myself from him, and thats how he called it. IT ISNT ANYTHING TO GO FROM. Unless you can explain yourself how this is FACTually a slip up. Other than that, it's just another accusation in Mafia.

Because that's not bussing, its distancing.

[SensFan]

@Sens - In my opinion, Elli used bus correctly, as jee said.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. The right term would have been distancing, not bussing. You can't bus someone on page 2.

[SensFan]

Firstly, while I've worked out most of the other terms, I'm still not sure what FoS, OMGUS, and WIFOM mean, could somebody please fill me in.

FoS means "Finger of Suspicion", if you want to formally announce your suspicions of someone that you're not voting. My personal belief (and this is not the site belief, just me) is that FoS is basically useless, since people can read my posts and see for themselves who I'm suspicious of. The only exception would be LyLo, when voting is dangerous.
OMGUS is literally "Oh My God! You Suck!" It's a throwback to chat mafia, when if someone voted for you in the random stage, your lighthearted reaction might be "OMG! You suck! Vote: XXX". In the random stage, nothing wrong with OMGUS. It only becomes a problem if past that stage someone votes someone else for the sole reason they're being voted by that person.
WIFOM is "Wine In Front Of Me", referencing a scene in The Princess Bride. Basically, it's if I say something like "Why would I kill Bob overnight, when he thought I was Town?", since quite clearly being able to make that argument is alone a reason why I might have killed Bob.

---

As for the importance of today's lynch; in a Newb Game, the Town is only allowed 2 mislynches (assuming no amazing Doc). We've used one of them, so we now have 3 lynches to hit 2 Scum. If we mislynch today, the game isn't over, but we then need to lynch correctly twice in a row. Does that make some sense?

[SensFan]

LYnch or LOse.

If the Scum ever make up half the Town, they win. So if we're in a scenario with 2 Scum and 5 people alive, we lose if we don't lynch correctly, since after a lynch and a nightkill, Scum outnumber us.

In a case like that (let's assume 2 Scum, 3 Town), there are only 3 votes needed to lynch, so it becomes incredibly risky to vote for someone early in the day; if both Scum come online, they can each pile on and hammer, thus ending the day, and securing the win.

[SensFan]

Finally:

@Sens: I thought bussing was the act of distancing yourself from your scumbuddies by placing a vote on them. If that's wrong please tell me, but if that is right, I think you can do that whenever you want.

What you've described is just that, distancing.
Bussing is the final (and biggest) act of distancing, pushing a scumbuddy so hard that you contribute to their lynch.

[SensFan]

Sorry guys, exams. Will be back later today with something more than this.

[SensFan]

Seems I didn't miss much. Elli's still Scum, guys.

[SensFan]

Seems I didn't miss much. Elli's still Scum, guys.

And it's posts like this that mean you didn't miss much. I do believe you are IC. Does this not mean that you should be setting a good example and promoting conversation rather than lurking?

More useless discussion is the exact opposite of what we need right now. Elli is Scum. He dropped a Scum slip; it doesn't get any easier than this.

[SensFan]

Alright, cat's out of the bag.

I'm the Cop. Elli is Guilty. Let's actually lynch him now, like we should have done D1.

No time for more from me right now, but I'll be back tomorrow at the latest.

I'll add this, though, since I'm sure Nacho will try to convince you not to lynch Elli. Lynching anyone but Elli at this point is about as stupid as it gets. He's obviously Scum, since it would be beyond stupid for me (as potential Scum) to purposefully give up a 1-for-1. So the right play here (and if Nacho convinces you otherwise, wait for me. I can provide an almost-infinite amount of facts to support my case) is to lynch Elli. If he flips Cop, lynch me. Hint: He won't.

[SensFan]

Sorry guys, in the middle of moving back to school, and a little behind on internet activities. TNM is Town.

[SensFan]

Just popping in here, but I must say, any Cop that wastes an investigation on someone he has a scumread on isn't a very good Cop. I investigated the person I had the least clear read on, which is by far the best play.

Also, if I bussed a partner as hard as some of you are accusing me of bussing Elli, there's no doubt in my mind VRK (who is modding this game, so of course sees it) would absolutely have banned me from ICing again. The IC is here to help teach other players about a game of Mafia; and to completely make sure your NewbPartner is lynched would be a massive problem. My primary goal isn't to win, of course. My goal is to help teach Mafia.

[SensFan]

Hey people,

Really sorry I just disappeared on you all of a sudden. I went through several very stressful things in real-life, and decided to step away from MafiaScum for the time being. I had, unfortunately, completely forgotten I was still in a game at the time. Glancing at the thread I see VRK was able to find a replacement for me. Again, you have my apologies.

On the subject of my post that caused so many issues, I do not apologize. Don't get me wrong, I fully realize that it was a complete lie and meant to deceive you guys, but in my mind, that's what Scum do. Scum ICs have always been able to do such things as not explain game theory or things of that nature, as long as an explanation is offered post-game, and I see this as similar. Though this was a while ago, I recall having cleared that specific argument by VRK through PM, but I cannot find any trace of having asked that. I hope none of you think I was trying to mislead you on an out-of-game level, I was simply doing my best to win for both myself and my scumbuddy.

On that note, to Elli, I do hope you don't feel hurt or anything that I bussed you so heavily. It was my plan coming into the game to bus as hard as possible, and I must admit it became somewhat frustrating to be doing everything in my power to lynch my buddy, and have the Town refuse to go along with it It was, of course, all meant to further our chances of winning the game as a team, and I thought I did a decent job of it.

On a light-hearted note, I would like to point to the following post of mine:

Guys. Seriously, cool off a bit. It was L-2. That's it. There's no way 2 Town would place L-1 and hammer votes, so there was no danger of a lynch.

You guys are massively overreacting here.

Scumbuddies?

Totally.

[SensFan]

Though this was a while ago, I recall having cleared that specific argument by VRK through PM, but

I cannot find any trace of having asked that.

Just to make sure no one misses the important parts in their haste and anger.