Newbie 871 - Game Over Town Win

[Annachie]

'Ello

So what do people think:
Reasoned Vote: Voting for someone for a reason
Random Vote: Voting for someone for no reason whatsoever
No vote: Voting for a no-lynch?

[Annachie]

This is my second game one this site, and I've played in one other game at a different site. As you may have guessed that first game here also had DathRandal in it.

<--- The dread pirate Bobbi-Blu. My youngest.


Ksen, there are deifiate circumstances where a no-lynch is a viable option, but not hat many.

To answer Incog's 'challange'(?)
If ther are three town and one scum left (and remember in newbie games we know we start with two scum and get told when we lynch one) then a no-lynch is mathamatically viable. (from 1/3 chance to voting for a scum reguardless to 1/2)

Incog I got told once that newbies reading the howto's is a scum tell. How should I treat being told to read them?

I don't like random voting. Voting should always have a reason though I admit the first couple of votes cast are essentially random. Random votes leads to random lynches and, to me at least, that seems to be too easy for the scum to manipulate. A no-lynch is preferable to a random lynch.
THough I honestly don't think we'll end up with a random lynch.

Ether. It's not entirely my idea. It kinda sums up the early discussion from my first game here, though the way I presented it is all me. It seemed to stir up quite a discussion and, admitadly accidentily, revealed a scum. (Not that we managed to lynch him. Newbie 844 if you're interested) So I thought it would make a good starting point.

The whole Ether/Patrick/Incog things worries me slightly. Must be the slight inference of out of game communications.

[Annachie]

Tha game (844) was kinda different, I assume, since one player had to be replaced, then his replacement replaced before the game started. Then annother player expressed concern that we should hold off voting until that replacement had posted so I thought 'Ahha, too much concern he must know something' and called the two of them out as a scum pair. To which the replacements response was to describe the two of them as "The Laurel and Hardy of Mafia"

For those who don't remember Laurel and Hardy they had a catch phrase "That's another fine mess you've gotten me into" so I thought, Ahha!.

Turned out that Mr. replacement was one of the scum, both players ended up being replaced, and the guy who replaced into the scum spot was really good and experienced and talked his way out of it.

Anyway, what matters is that we got the discussion rolling, although a few random votes helped there, and people made mistakes because it was rolling along fairly well. Of course a very vocal newbie with eratic play masked things a bit.

If someone doesn't post, it's lurking. If someone posts but it's not clear who it actually thinks is scum, it's active lurking.

I think I have to disagree here, at least with the second part. There are definate times when posts don't reflect who the poster thinks is scum but the post is still scum hunting.
Posting with no content is more active lurking.

(He says after basically doing that. But in my defense I was answering a question)

IGMEOY Ether, Incog, Patrick

With only two scum and the way you

three

people seem to read each other better than us 'strangers', I'm really curious to see which way you fall on each others scummyness, hence the eye.

[Annachie]

lol Ether. Actually, I'm leaning towards town for the three of you. Just a gut feeling.

[Annachie]

Having experience with each other would hurt us as scum, not as town. Anything that they know to hide, they'd have to hide anyway. But I know what to look for, and what feels off.

Exactly what I was thinking which is why I'm watching you guys closely. There's a 58% chance that at least one of you is scum, and I suspect a much greater chance with you guys than with any random three players of the other/s spotting it first.

Worthy of an eye? I think so.

Annachie, uh, did give an opinion when asked.

On what? Merely that my gut feel is town for you three but so far I have little to back that up. Too early for definates.

[Annachie]

Incog I got told once that newbies reading the howto's is a scum tell. How should I treat being told to read them?

Did the person explain why he or she felt scum would be more likely to look up how-to's in the Wiki than town would? Do you yourself feel that way?

Sorry, forgot to address this.

No the person didn't say. Come to think of it the person who said it might have been scum in that game. I'll have to go check. Actually

(After reading 17 pages or so)

he was.
He must have said it to try and direct suspicion onto someone.

Still that's a fair question for the Se/IC's. Which newbie player is more likely to read the howto's Newbie town or newbie scum?

[Annachie]

re post#52

It's my first IGMEOY ever btw. But I wanted to say that's I'm watching to see what happens.

[Annachie]

I think I've said that I think voting without reason, or random voting, is bad. It makes it easier for scum to hide and for scum to manipulate.
I think it's also a way for silly townies to paint targets on their heads, at least if they make a habit of it.

Reasons is data, and we need data.

People have asked for my read on Darth based on our last game together? So far, he's playing the same way. I don't know what to read into that since he was a NK in the last game, but the absence and excuse is a worry. (and were last game too)

Yarmond, Herd, Darth. Who are your top three candidates, for anything, and why?

(Anything: town, scum, power role)

[Annachie]

Yarmond, Herd, Darth.

The three with the lowest post count.

and I did mean anything, not that I expected any comment on power rolls.


Incogg|Ether|Patrick. Our experienced trio.
Town, I think, though I am worried about two of them being scum I tend to doubt it.
(

Question:

SE's and IC's have the same chance of being scum as everybody else right?)
Ether does worry me slightly by her frequent use of small text. Incog, Patrick. Is that something she does a lot? Also with the frequency and amount of her posting. Don't know how to read that though. Scum would try and post less not more right?

Me|Boberz|Ksen|Herd

Me, town obviously Ok, not obviously. That's part of what we're all trying to work out.
Boberz town I think. Seems to be actively scum hunting
Ksen. A worry. Like someone from my last game (Pyro), he seems to be actracting a lot of attention for weird things. The number of scum, (aparently) not reading the rules. Stuff like that.
Herd I suspect of ducking questions and content. Perhaps being a touch confrontational. I really don't like his professed love of random voting.

Darth|Yarmond.

Worrying due to their post count/frequency. Darth, at least, I know to be playing like he did previously. But then he attracted suspicion in that game too. Maybe a touch more confrontational recently.
Yarmond, What one post? No posts? Helloo!! (2 hours off a prod I think)

Vote Herd456

[Annachie]

3) No small or invisible text.

Because it's a direct violation of the posting rules for starters.

So, is it new to her or not?

[Annachie]

power role)

How would this possibly be a good idea?

Well, just off of the top of my head it's the perfect opertunity for a doctor to point the finger at someone and say "I think that person is a cop".

[Annachie]

Happy Birthday Starkmoon

How does that have anything to do with anything? Seriously.

Well for starters, poor eyesight, cheap laptop, and 8 kids at home means I missed the first one. Actually I missed the first 2! One directly after you cast a vote, as in on the same line!!

In writing this over several hours, Incog has posted that he was the fist to use small text.

Where Incog? I missed that one too it seems.
Hence my problem

Even later in the day, much later

My wife's had an oopsie (Manic/depressive episode), I may be absent a couple of days.

VLA 3 days

hopefully less though.

[Annachie]

*Crosses fingers*

I got some reading to do,

Unvote

I realised I should have probably done that before going AWOL

[Annachie]

Hopfully I am thinking better, because I know I wasn't.
Basically I only trust threethings I said before I did a runner. That Darth is posting like he did last game, though more confrontational, and that I don't like random votes, which is the reason for the voe on Herd. Not a good one I admit. And that I missed the small text. I did rant a lot more about that but deleted it before posting. It was what convinced me to walk away for a few days and not try to do this with my

wife

the way she was. (Yes, me male whoever it was that called me a she.)

I like the question to the experienced trio, who of the 3 do you think is the most scummy. I'm not sure I like the answers though. Odds say that there's a 58% chance that at least 1 out of any 3 players is scum. Also the comment that one of you has only ever played scum as a replacement. You're due


There's a couple of questions outstanding to me, I think, but I've forgotten them. One concerned the vote on Herd (see above) and one was on role hunting(?). When I said "Anything (Scum, town...)" I meant anything. Its that simple.

I'm tunnelling slightly on Incog/Ether/Patrick. But I want to be sure of them. I expect that they will be leading the discussions to a great degree, and they seem to be. So pinning them down is important to me.

Yarmond is a lost cause of course, so we wait for his replacement.
Darth worries me, and I believe I've said that in previous games for the same reason. Constantly (it seems) floating on the edge of being prodded.

The rest, later

It's 01:30 sheesh

[Annachie]

With only two scum and the way you three people seem to read each other better than us 'strangers', I'm really curious to see which way you fall on each others scummyness, hence the eye.

I liked the question because I asked it a while ago.

Ether ducked it
Incog was vague (Though he later gave an answer on Ether.)
Patrick answered

Boberz asked damn near the same question.
Patrick answered straight up.
Ether:

Do I really have to read back and give a researched answer? They're both town.

Incog ducked with a response that seemed to be a turn-about type thing.

Incog hasn't really answered either time and Ether ducked and then stated a certainty. That's what worried me.

Ether, why are you certain. If they are indeed town, then only 4 people can state it with certainty. Themselves and the scum.

Incog, why are you (aparently) twisting your way out of this?

Incog, why vote for Darth after he has asked to be replaced?

Patrick, Ether, Incog: With 3 votes sitting on Darth what chance would you (normally) expect that at least one of them was placed by one of the scum?

Herd, Boberz, Ksen. Same question?

I'm curious if there's a difference between what the experienced players think, and what us newbies think.

I'd say a good to better than good chance for both. (Scum on the vote and there being a difference)

I don't know where to place my vote, yet. But it wont be Darth, or yarmoud(sp?). At least not until the replacements have a chance to speak for themselves.

[Annachie]

@Ksen
Well, the misses is stable, mentally speaking though she had a ripper on an anxiety attack. Of course tonight we have 3 extra's, one of whom is 6 and autistic. Nearly got into a fight at a wedding. Had more people visit the house than I can ever remember in one day, though all that has helped the kids settle better than normal somehow.
Yeah settled lol.

The questions were mostly asked of me and while I didn't answer them directly, I think I have covered them.

re Darth's replacement. I don't think so. His absentia does resemble our previous game quite a lot. I've felt that Starkmoon should have prodded him several times in that game and would have if she wasn't distracted by the whole moving house thing.

[Annachie]

Also, Annachie, there was another L-2 wagon earlier on ksen. Why is the one on Darth the one that you're being the most inquisitive about?

Herd perhaps? Which happened while I was VLA

herd456 - 3 - Incognito, Annachie, Patrick - (L-2)

Lets extend the question to that one as well.

[Annachie]

Why do you think herd's random vote was more likely to be done by scum?

As far as I can tell this was never explained.

I don't think it was more likely to have been done by scum, I just don't like them and I think that thet benifit scum. Well, maybe not in the first page.

Simply put a random vote by a scum generally isn't random because they already know who the scum are, and a random vote by a town sets the precent to allow scum to get away with it.


'Ello RayFrost. Welcome to the game.

[Annachie]

Eventually found it. It was there for 6 posts.

Ok, lets make this more general then, with 9 players in the game, and 3 voteing on one person, What chance do people think that there is at least one scum in on the vote.
The raw probability is the same as any three players being scum, 58%, but this isn't probabliity, this is game play/psychology.

[Annachie]

Incog. Hence me saying that my question was more about game play and psychology than pure probability. Actually, your answer to Ksen was a pretty good answer for my question too. Thanks.

Oh, yes. I was especially curious about the Darth vote because it happened after he asked to be replaced. Post 211 answered that though, though voting like that seems to be a scummy thing to do.
If the situation was reversed, that it was me placing that thrid vote after Darth had asked to be replaced and not you, would you consider it a scummy move?

Boberz. It's not rude. Then again, even you said you thought it was, it never made an official count, Incog also thought it had happened and therefor wasn't certain, and again Incog had missed the one on Herd.
I'm not too worried that I missed it, but I should pay more attention.

[Annachie]

'Ello Tyrope.

Have fun

[Annachie]

Thanks for that.

Not conciously Incog.
That particular one yes, but I'm comming to the conclusion that a replacement should have a chance to stand or fall on their own, at least for a few pages, and your vote seems to be too much pressure to allow that.

[Annachie]

iirc, Ether is about 3hours off from the prod I believe.

Patrick, I suppose it's more my sense of being fair to people (replacements) especially as they may have taken over from a dill. Incog's opinion makes me wonder if I should though.

Sarnath'd?

Tyrope: You should consider making a record of the post number in your notes. Easier to track back to relevent points.

[Annachie]

Tyrope.

there is smth about this case, this particular wording.

smth?

[Annachie]

Ether, re post 258, that's twice the subject of you stating certainties on other peoples town/scum has come up, and the second time the questioner has been called paranoid.


and what makes you think I haven't gotten the answers I want?

All quotes Ether except where noted:

but a part of me is nervous that Incognito and I will trip each other a couple times. And that I'll wind up focusing more attention on them than on you. But I'll try not to do that.

I'm going to take your [[

Incog's I believe

]] word for this and write you off as town. Awesome.

These read like a scum setting up excuses for themselves, just in case.

One of them, however, is absolutely a filthy scumbag trying to bump me off

I noticed particularly that you didn't use the word scum there. But used scumbag
If you are scum, then one of either Patrick or Incognito could be a scumbag (townie) trying to knock you off. But if this comment was ment in jest, then I would have expected some indication of it.

You're due

Finally,

I want Boberz to elaborate on why he's voting Ksen as opposed to DarthRandal/Herd/Annachie.

Since this was just after he'd pressured you slightly Ether, why aren't you mentioned in that list? I was half expecting Boberz to place a vote on you around that point.

Vote Ether

[Annachie]

I suspct I wasn't looser in earlier games, just a little "Jump to conclusion" ish. I may be overcompensating by overthinking this game. (Especially with my thinking breaking down in the middle when Chris had her oops)

I've been picking your brain Incog, while waiting for Ether to return from her little absense. I wanted to see her response to some things first though as you can now no doubt guess some of my reasons for the questions given that Ether was on two of the three L-2 votes.

I agree, so far Scum lite, which is more than my feeling on others but one thing I learned from my first two games. When people are certain, it's for one reason only. They know.

As for your good self Incog, lets wait until Ether gets resolved one way or the other

[Annachie]

Annachie, talk to me, do you think that you have looked more scummy in the first six pages or the second six pages, if you acceot a change what explains it.

After trying for a while, I find I cant seperate from myself to give a proper answer.

Not sure of my availability over tommorow/weekend. But should be able to pop in at least.

[Annachie]

Did you draw it? I remember your style being fuzzier.

Tyrope's getting close to 48 hours.

but one thing I learned from my first two games. When people are certain, it's for one reason only. They know.

I didn't see this. On top of everything else, I want a link to scum acting remotely like I am.

Can you honestly tell me that no-one has ever questioned you for using definitave statements about someone being town. Especially when based on a players say so?

Incog, as our resident IC and therefor 'source of wisdom', can you onestly tell me that someone using definitaves like Ether did isn't at least slightly scummy?

[Annachie]

Ether, I never said that I'd seen it, but that I had learned it.
Basic Freudian psychology.

I'm curious to the reaction that I'm paranoid though. Especially given that when similar sentiments were raised by someone else, paranopid was a word thrown around then too.

Incidentally, Annachie's logged on and seen my post to him, and is still not talking to me head-on. Don't you hate it when people can't take responsibility for their votes?

Some of that is me refreshing and getting dragged away by the kids while reading, and some is Firefox automatically logging me in when the program/computer get restarted, (I tend not to close certain tabs like this, Harry Potter fanfiction, and Facebook) and one occasion was me taking 12 hours to write a post and refreshing a seperate tab to keep up wih what others were posting.

Case in pont, this has taken me about 2.5 hours

There's some mod WIFOM involved in this ...

Patrick, since I notice that you are currently modding a game, what's your opinion on this?

4.5 days until the deadline by my count.

Since I doubt that Ether will be strung up ( ) what should I be thinking?

[Annachie]

Ether, you don't see 'Incog's sayin that he's town so you declare it as well' and then saying "Do I have to do the research, [[Incog's]] town" as iffy?

Do you think that I decided that you were scum based on some of your page 2 posts but waited until page 12 (or so) before mentioning it? Nope, it was seeing some of your later responses, such as the above, that made me take a good look at your early stuff.

Those three quotes I made really look like someone setting up some defense for themselves, and to my mind that's scummy.

she says this kind of stuff as town all the time:

In no particular order:

Incognito's town, Eldarad's town, Mizzy's town, Elmo's town, Scot's town. Ether's town.

So that's nice.

I am even more sure now that Eldarad is town.

That would be an opinion leading to her declaration

Anyway, Moose is town

, The Many/Incognito is

probably

town, I feel obligated to temporarily write off McRookie for that goon question even though I don't really understand it. Thoooooooooooose newbflakes.

Probably

. Yet another opinion leading to her declaration

Columbo is town. Fluffy is town. Ray is town.

Yes, it was day 1 admitadly.

Page 38!

Incog, is there a reason you seem to jump to Ether's defense so readily?

[Annachie]

4. interruptions (*ahem*)

5 yr old nagging, 6 yr old throwing a tantrum, 13 yr old BORED!, 3 yr old insisting on sitting on me as I type.

You have a lot to learn about interuptions .

Ether, that's just a small example of why it can take me hours to write even a post up. Even a small one. Then again, for my last one the kids were outside for most of it. The one before, was at lunchtime (At least according to the kids

and off I go to the kitchen to break up more yelling

[Annachie]

I'm starting right after I made the previous post

What I'm thinking.

Ok, now we are getting to the point of fiding a worthwhile wagon to get to a lynch. Even if I don't agree with that particular person's lynching. What's important is that it's resolves the most for the most people, and of course will actually get to the five votes needed. A mislynch is much better than a no-lynch at this point, unless it was random lynch of course.

I'll start with the ones I consider least worthwhile (at this stage):
Patrick, Incog (Though this changes dramatically if Ether is scum), Boberz. (No-one's showed much interest in a Boberz vote lately (iirc) and I tend to doubt it would get up either)


Most worthwhile:
Ether (Duh!), Incog(*), RayFrost (Incog had some good reasons iirc), Herd.

Middling:
Ksen, Tyrope, Me. Not sure what we would learn from Tyrope, Ksen might be worthwhile but unlikely to get up, and I'm not sure I can put myself in either of the other two catagories. (I can't look at myself independantly enough)

If I shify my vote, and I suspect that I will, it would have to be RayFrost as he is at L-2 and would resolve things for a couple of people. But I suspect we are a couple of days from that.

I just refreshed another tab to show me anything that had been posted in the 2 hours it's taken me to sit down and actually write this.

Annachie, are you going to fucking commit to RayFrost yet?

I'm still working on the stuff the Incog posted 4 hours ago (As I type). The response to my question at the bottim of post#342. But I suspect I just did.

But in looking at the quotes that Incog provided earleir of your previous games, and your post that I quoted there, I'm going to read a bit of those mini-games. Posibility of more psychology happening.

Which means Ray's post will have to wait a few more hours.

(

Tommorow may, or may not, be a good day for me. My wife and I are literally in the middle on an IVF cycle. 10 kids is not enough. If tommorow disapeers, I will be back tommorow night)


* About the time RayFrost joined us, I discovered that Patrick was currently modding a game so I poked my head into it and noticed that he'd included a link to "How to be a good IC". So I read it. Lynching Incog(the IC) is worthwhile because a scum Incog is under posting restrictions and we might learn from it.

[Annachie]

Watch him not commit to RayFrost.

The curse of taking 3 hours (or so) to write. (It's dinner time for me btw) I said he was the best option for a vote before you made the above post. (Or at least before I saw it anyway)

If you want it now then

unvote Ether

But it will return day 2

Vote RayFrost

[Annachie]

ITT annachie misrepresents incognito and misinterprets what chainsaw is

Actually Ray, Incog mis-represented Ether's meta.

I'm picking up on her using definitives early on day 1, he lists quotes showing that she's done it before, but those quotes (or the posts they came from) indicate less definitate answers (Opinions) or in the last case, was from much further into the game.

A chainsaw is "ripping into someone who is pressuring a third party", and whilst "Ripping" is too strong a word for it in this case, it is what he is doing, and has done before. (To Boberz iirc)

[Annachie]

Ether, Ray has been at L-2 for 221 posts, or 60% of the game (by post count), hits L-1 and you unvote within 1 post or 9 minutes?

I have no opinion on RayFrost yet, but thought it was the best lynch option based on Incog's thoughts and yours and Ksen's votes.

What has changed in your mind?

[Annachie]

lol. When it comes to game mechanics and strategy and stuff, I take them, and yours and Patricks, very seriously.

Which is part of why I've asked him so many questions.


So, oh fountain of wisdom (Incog, though feel free Ether and Patrick). I know what self-hammering is, I just don't understand why it would be used. Can you enlighten me? (I wouldn't have asked but it was brought up so ...)

[Annachie]

EBWOP

About 180 posts not 220

[Annachie]

Annachie, are you going to fucking ...

Would you believe that Ether dropping the F-bomb appears to be a meta-town-tell for her?

Sometimes I think I am over-thinking this game

[Annachie]

While it is ok to lie as scum, it is NEVER ok to lie in your role as an IC. Never lie about game theory to get a tactical advantage.

There's a couple of null answers you've given that bring parts of "Being agood IC" to mind.

Since Patrick linked to it, ( in game 858 I think) I assumed it was required for IC's

I suspect, or perhaps hope, that backtracking a scum IC's posts would help finger his partner better.

[Annachie]

I have no opinion on RayFrost yet, but thought it was the best lynch option based on Incog's thoughts and yours and Ksen's votes.

lol. When it comes to game mechanics and strategy and stuff, I take them, and yours and Patricks, very seriously.

Except, by saying that you agree with my thoughts and then lending your vote to the wagon of the person who's the "beneficiary" of these thoughts, you've now completely left the realm of just taking my opinion seriously with respect to game mechanics and strategy -- you're now agreeing with a

case

I've made against another person (Ether already covered this, but she talks funny sometimes).

Incog, I don't believe that I said that I agee with your case, just that your case against Ray is part of what makes Ray the best lynch target prospect at the moment.

[Annachie]

I don't think I've said that I think Incog is scum, just that I suspect that the posibility that he could be both IC and scum puts him on the worthwhile lynching list.

Incog, ref #385. You're probably right

[Annachie]

Boberz. I must be missing something.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

After consideration you find Ray

more

scummy, so have unvoted him.

Yankee, I'm pretty sure I understand Incog's reasoning, I think I understand Ether's, but really they should explain it themselves.
Mine is just gameplay covered somewhere on page 15. Simply put, at the time Ray was the best option for a lynch that had value, and Ether provoked me into doing it early. Just a little

I think he still is by the way.

[Annachie]

Ok, having gone back to re-read #376, Boberz makes more sense. Looks like I was missing something.

Yankee, having gone back, it was my post #364

[Annachie]

Tyrope.
I believe mine (#365) made it L-1, Ether jumped (#366) off to go back to L-2, then Boberz took it back to L-1 and then jumped back to L-2 where I believe it currently sits. (Ksen, Incog and myself)

[Annachie]

I see he was very suspicious of Annachie(like I was when I first replaced in because of a post

he

had right when I joined)

Which post would that be?

[Annachie]

That's not what I ment Yankee.

(like I was when I first replaced in because of a post he had right when I joined)

I'm curious which post yuo are refering to there.

[Annachie]

#391 is by Boberz

[Annachie]

Just before someone drops the hammer, RayFrost's absense is worrying. Especially as I know another game he is in is in night phase atm.
Almost like he's given up, which is anti-town.

[Annachie]

Of course it's not worth your precious kid time to respond to

my

posts and

my

responses.

Since we're floating along in limbo, Yes. Because doing so you're ire finally gave me the real read I've been looking for for so long.

I'm tunnelling slightly on Incog/Ether/Patrick. But I want to be sure of them. I expect that they will be leading the discussions to a great degree, and they seem to be. So pinning them down is important to me.

Took longer than I thought it would.
Ok, I was sure of Patrick a while ago, but the other two.

[Annachie]

lol, #375...

[Annachie]

Took me a for me to realise I had what I needed, and then to read through all those games.

[Annachie]

Well, I thought the swearing ment something, but I assumed what it meant. When I got some time a bit later, I decided to go hunting through your past games, and, after a while, I realised what I had, and that my assumptions weren't that right.

I wont guarentee that I'm right of course since you know how I feel about definates.

It was after that that I found the Wickedest quote that I placed in my sig.

[Annachie]

and worked out the corolley(sp?). "Your reasoning shouldn't make someone look town ..."

[Annachie]

Deepening shadows gather splendor
As day is done
Fingers of night will soon surrender
The setting sun
I count the moments darling
Till you're here with me
Together at last at twilight time

[Annachie]

Vote Boberz

I'm not sure I understand #410, nor the post that it is trying to explain.

Care to elaborate/try again?

[Annachie]

Agreed that Annachie should explain his vote. I can't see a reason for it, nor even the questioning really since Annachie himself seemed satisfied on that issue yesterday.

Because I don't understand why he tried such a 'trick' or why he explained it the way he did. I was hoping the vote would encourage Boberz to give a better answer than we had seen to date..

With Ray and Incog confirmed town, and I'm happy to now call Ether and Patrick town, that leaves Ksen, Boberz, Yankee and Tyrope for the two scum spots.

I lean towards Yankee and Tyrope being the scum and Boberz being the most townie but ...

[Annachie]

ebwop

unvote

[Annachie]

Patrick, do you think it's worth speculating on the NK?

[Annachie]

Yankee, the mix-up is OK. It happens.

btw, why are you sure that Ether was the only one who suspected you yesterday?

Incog repeatedly indicates that he thinks your scummy, and Patrick had a vote on you, and suspicions, for a long time.

Now you seem to be ignoring those points to apear townier than you should.

vote Yankee

[Annachie]

Boberz:
I don't believe I have said that I think your townie. Just that of the four I am not yet sure of, you seem the most townie. There is a difference.
I didn't attack you, I wanted some things cleared up. I still don't think your #476 explained things well.
Yankee is answering questions well? We must be looking at different questions then.

As for the rest of #497.

I have not the pleasure of understanding you

You know, that's no the only post of yours that makes less than optimal sense. There's been a few.


Your attack on me makes little sense, then to claim I was attacking you when I wasn't.



Boberz and Ksen seem to have been building a case against me from nothing from the start of day 2. Why?
I like the way Boberz claimed that Incog getting lynched pointed to me as being scum btw (#464) Highly amusing.

If I was scum I would have NK'd Patrick. (Most town, least likely to be mis-lynched)


Getting to Patrick, I asked his opinion on the NK speculation because it is my understanding that the most lilely D1 NK's for a newbie game are the IC and the person who is most town (I accept that to many Incog filled both) and as a slumming IC (iirc) he might confirm or deny this independantly of the slumming IC who told me in the first place.
(In that specific game, the slumming IC was scum, but he showed us the quickchat discussion were he talked about the NK with his partner.)

[Annachie]

Yankee, in the last 60 or so posts, #494 is the only one that seems to address questions that were put to you.
Granted the posts you have made have appeared decent.
Before that you seemed more about distancing yourself from Herd than much else, again I can't fault that in and of itself.
iirc, there are unanswered questions to you by Patrick still.

Which is the basis for my disagreeing with Boberz as to wether you have answered questions well.

[Annachie]

7/ Why vote in #474 if all you wanted was a better explanation why vote?

I'm starting to think it was an experiment gone wrong, but suffice it to say that when you go hunting it helps to use bait.

#497 still confuses me. I think Patrick is asking about it too so I don't think it is just me.

Sometimes Boberz, I feel that you and I are much alike, which leans you to town. Others, we seem complete opposites which of course makes you scum

[Annachie]

Yankee, Patrick's #485.

Looking at your posts, can you elaborate on what you felt/feel the case against Annachie is (this mentioned in your 393)?

Because if " I mixed up Annachie and Boberz," is your answer then I'm not convinced.
(Mixing up is ok, but #393 didn't read like a mix up.)

If I Remember Correctly

[Annachie]

Yankee, your top two suspects are the two people who are voting for you.

Is it possible that there is an element of OMGUS in this?

[Annachie]

Patrick. Not really. But an OMGUS is a reaction vote, not a thought out vote and I have always advocated thought out votes. (It's why I don't like the RVS stage and generally don't participate in it)

[Annachie]

Annachie Reasons -

Pushing for my lynch with little to no evidence,

No given reason is different from no evidence.

I will spill it all in a couple of days.

[Annachie]

I was waiting for Ether, and iirc Patrick said she had an exam on Monday and wasn't likely back before then (

inner dad says school first!

It boils down like this.

Patrick town.
Ether town.
Boberz almost certainly town. (I voted him this day to settle my own mind on him)
Ksen has only ever appeared town to me (But I have tried not to mention any alignment for Ksen before so that the scum would think I was swinging on him)
Me town.

That leaves Tyrope and Yankee.

So I planned to wait for either Tyrope or Yankee to vote someone and followe them to see what the other would. Trusting that Ether and Patrick would not rush into things.
Imagine my surprise when Tyrope voted Yankee.
Now with 2 votes, if there were other scum out there surely they would have tried something by now. Both Patrick and Ether had expressed concerns for Yankee, and I believe similar concerns have been expressed for Tyrope by people here so it wouldn't be that hard to join the wagon. After all, if Tyrope or Yankee were indeed a mis-lynch I couln't see anyone but myself being lynched the next day for a scum win.

So one of Yankee or Tyrope must be scum, and I believe that the other one must be too purely on the process of elimination of townies.

[Annachie]

Ever cleaned milk out of a lap top? Bloody kids.

Boberz. Then lynch me first.
Seriously. As long as we lynch both scum it doesn't matter if I go first.

[Annachie]

Ksen, if you or Ether follow Boberz as things now stand, that would be a lynch.

Anti-prod mostly, because I'm busy with X-mas for 8 kids and more crap thatn I'd normally care to deal with.

[Annachie]

Pure anti-prod as I don't have anything much to add until the vote resolves.
But I am following along.

[Annachie]

Tyrope 2 Yankee, Patrick, boberz

Bloody England and their new fangled counting system

[Annachie]

Yes Patrick a lynch. Whilst a discussion on the no-lynch option at this stage would be interesting, we are going to get a lynch so it's academic.
Personally I want to wait for Ether as I proceded on the basis that she was back. I made my bed and leave the rest to you guys.

[Annachie]

I was thinking that the NK will be telling, and a N-L leading into it could be a nice mix up. But don't get me wrong. Lynch!

and merry x-mas

[Annachie]

A little, but I want to return to this in the end game and wanted people to think of it now to get the "at the time" feelings.

[Annachie]

I believe I said before that I would have NK'd Patrick, so any scum who wants to implicate me knows that would be the case. Anyone else would be telling.

I didn't want to say anything because I had laid out my case and it was now the towns decision. Of course when I said that I expected Ether to be more involved.


What do you mean Starkmoon's birthday?

[Annachie]

Patrick there should be nothing wrong with you seeing if she's ok and net accessable via aim.

After 9 odd days ...

[Annachie]

unvote vote Tyrope

[Annachie]

It's more in relation to Ether's absence, but since I presented a theory that Yankee and Tyrope are scum, does it really matter which I vote for.

(Well yes as I wanted the four I'm sure are town to decide but ...)

[Annachie]

Boberz, you deserve to get told off for that comment.

[Annachie]

VT for me as well.

I've been thinking about advocating that the cop, if there is one, claiming. I think they should, if they have two investigations on still living players. Just town or scum, no mention of doc if one was found. If only one I'm not so sure.

[Annachie]

(that was to you ksen)

now to annachie, why is what i said at the end of day 2 worthy of me getting told off?

Since you led off with ~"Patrick will probably tell me off for this but" or similar, you already know.

[Annachie]

It can bee seen as the scum directing the PR's which is not a good idea, and quite often is seen as the PR themself crumbing what they are going to do, and thus risking an NK.
It could also be a scum tactic for getting the doc to cover the wrong person. It could even be a scum tactic to verify if there is a doc.

Nothing about it looks good.


I'm thinking I have to go back and re-read the entire thread since I was wrong. Especially Patrick, my longest own read.

[Annachie]

I would hate to think that I pushed Ether so hard for a wrong result. Also I suspect that if I was wrong she'd want to hang around and rub my face in it.
Especially if I was also wrong (as it appears) about both Yankee and Tyrope.

The problem is still a Ksen/Yankee scum team.

Follow me here: If the scum team are two goons and if they had an NK blocked then they know there is a doc. They can fake a cop claim because they know there is no cop to counter claim.

hmm.... alot has happened since i was on for break today. The way the conversation between Patrick and Boberz is going, it sounds almost as if Boberz is the cop and is just getting a feel of everyone before he actually claims.

I also get mixed feelings from today since Yankee's play is the more consistent with being a partner to Annachie but his play also has what I think is a town sign.

Clearly not the case now.

After reading the first few posts for D3, I'm leaning towards Ksen claim being false.

[Annachie]

FOS Ksen

I'm not sure there was any reason to inspect Incog that didn't come from me attacking Ether and trying to trap Incog in a defense of her. An attack that ended with nothing to implicate Incog btw, and I think a reasonable clearance on Ether. (More than clearance from my perspective)
That would make me the most likely to be checked. Especially with

But a false cop claim that names a townie scum fails completely, and doesn't assure the win if the Doc guesses right again (Assuming there is a doc and no RB) but will hang the false claim.
A false claim of dead townie and scum partner still leaves every townie available for lynching though and doesn't immediatly invalidate the cop's claim.

I was going to vote but changed it to a FOS in the last preview after some thought. This claim needs careful looking at, not a rush of votes.

[Annachie]

*ebwop. Bloody heat screwing my connection and causing mistakes.

Especially with me aparently being a top suspect from early on for so many.

[Annachie]

Mod: Replace out