Newbie 870 - Game Over

[Tokillablockingnerd]

@mod (and players)

I'm away for the weekend, and will most likely not be able to post until sunday night or monday.

Have fun guys!

[brothernature]

Lol was about to post my inactivity note also.

I'll also be V/LA staring tonight and for all of next week. Flying way up North to spend Thanksgiving with my grandparents in Alaska. Unless there's an internet cafe in town, I won't be on. If that's going to be to long of a time, I won't mind if you have to replace me.

[Netopalis]

Also on V/LA for 24 hours.

[almightybob]

Votecount 1.4

Netopalis - 2 (Nikanor, bv310)
ace5993 - 2 (brothernature, Tokillablockingnerd)
kirby_is_kyaan - 1 (billybailey)
billybailey - 1 (kirby_is_kyaan)
bv310 - 2 (Netopalis, chauchaudotcom)
Tokillablockingnerd - 1 (ace5993)

With 9 alive, it's

5

votes to lynch!

[billybailey]

Hey guys ive been trying to analyse everything but i cant seem to find many scumtells. OK so these are my thoughts:

ACE 5993 seems active and opportunistic but my gut says he is innocent

BROTHER NATURE hasnt really said much that is substantive, but benefit of doubt that he is innocent

BV310 im neutral on

CHAUCHAUDOTCOM has been encouraging discussion, think shes innocent

KIRBY_IS_KYAAN hasnt really contributed anything sunstantive, think he might be lurking

NETOPALIS seems quite logical and active in his attempt to find scum, i think he is innocent

NIKANOR seems helpful and innocent

TKABN i am neutral on but would say his vote for ace was based on a weak argument

[bv310]

So basically your argument is that everyone is innocent?



On another note, Can we please make sure this day does not end in a deadlock? A deadlock gives the scum a free whack at the town.[/area]

[billybailey]

basically yea thats how ive analysed things so far, theres not really much to go on

[bv310]

True, although I've got a few ideas.

[Nikanor]

Then post them.
Myself, I've been swamped with work and school. I promise to be caught up tomorrow.

[chauchaudotcom]

I think we should replace brothernature. A week of inactivity is a lot.

[bv310]

Alrighty, my current mindset, player by player:

ace5993 - A bit too talkative for my liking, plus he was quick to defend me when I was under suspicion, which helped increase the suspicion towards me. Add to that his reluctance to answer the questions at first, and he's my #1 suspect so far.

brothernature - Hasn't posted a lot, but I have a few suspicions. He bandwagoned Ace pretty quickly, but I don't know if that was just random voting or if he's trying to cover himself right off the bat. Still a fairly safe Town read.

chauchaudotcom - I don't even know how to respond here, I get a fairly okay Town vibe from her, but that's just my gut talking.

billybailey - Sloppy, but that might just be attributable to newbie status.

kirby_is_kyaan - I inherently trust you because of your Mastodon avatar, but I don't know what to think of you in this game.

Netopalis - I already voted for you and explained why, although my suspicions are a bit stronger elsewhere now.

Nikanor - Defensive, but that might just be due to experience. Fairly strong Town read here.

Tokillablockingnerd - Not a fan of your random lynch idea, and your constant referencing of this being your first game seems to be an attempt to really drive home a newbie read on you. Don't know how to handle you yet.

For the record, I still heavily suspect Neto, but I'm going to

UNVOTE: Netopalis, VOTE: Ace5993

For now. If someone else gives me a good reason to change this, I will.

[Nikanor]

Either way, this was the first post anybody made that drew attention to themselves

Do you think mafia would rather draw attention to themselves or hang back?

However, I'm more suspicious of the fast wagon that has grown up around him.

The fast wagon? You mean the one vote on him from ace?

In general, scum attack the wagon more, TKABN is just trying to argue for why the arguments against him are crap.

You mean the way he's attacking ace, the only guy with a vote on him?

I've got my eye on Ace, as he seems a bit opportunistic with jumping on suspicions already in place. It's a very light tell.

ace's vote on TKaBN was the first suspicion on TKaBN, iirc. I don't know from where you're getting 'opportunistic.'

Personally, I agree that ToKillaBlockingNerd is a bit suspicious.

Then why are you defending him?

Isn't it a little early in the game to be associating scum buddies? We should focus on catching one scum first.

Yes, but catching connections between players is a help when it comes to catching scum.
For example, Neto is defending TKaBN with crappy reasoning. Neto even goes so far as to call TKaBN suspicious before defending him. Why is Neto defending someone he finds suspicious? Scumbuddies would be my first guess. Scum defending someone they know is townie also comes to mind. If Neto knows TKaBN is town, he would see TKaBN as a future lynch; he doesn't want to call him town, because then Neto won't be able to justify a vote on TKaBN. But at the same time, Neto would want to defend TKaBN to get cheap townie points when TKaBN flips town.
Also, ace is pretty quick to call Brock 'cleared' in his eyes, just because of one post. I see scum doing this to town more than scum doing it to scum, because declaring someone as town can seem pro-town.
Understand?

[Netopalis]

BV: Ace is guilty because he defended you? That dose not make sense.


You also didn't exactly substantiate your vote against me earlier. You find me scummy because I asked questions, but you also liked my explanation for why I asked those questions? Your position is inconsistent.

I also don't like how you seem to be unable to reach a position on many players. You present some good ideas, but then discard because you "don't know how to handle" or "don't know how to read" them. You need to be firmer. Start taking a stance.

[ace5993]

Either way, this was the first post anybody made that drew attention to themselves

Do you think mafia would rather draw attention to themselves or hang back?

Usually I would think they would hang back, but in this instance, he seemed very eager to try to clear his name before the game even began. Also it's great to see some life brought back into this game

I also don't really see how people are thinking I'm opportunistic - it seems to me the only suspicion on TBaKN before I voted for him was a small line from Neto saying that he was slightly suspicious. That's hardly being opportunistic/bandwagoning.

[Netopalis]

Nikanor, I suppose I should have reworded it not as wagon, but as cloud of suspicion. I do find it suspicious that so many people are hopping up against him, but I also find him suspicious. I was not necessarily defending him, just pointing out additional suspicions. I also don't like how you set up a situation whereby if TKABN flips town, I'm scum, but if he flips scum, I'm scum.

[Nikanor]

I also don't like how you set up a situation whereby if TKABN flips town, I'm scum, but if he flips scum, I'm scum.

What I'm saying is that no matter what TKaBN flips, you're scummy for defending him.

[Netopalis]

Which doesn't make any sense. By that logic, it would always be scummy to defend another player, and ergo, nobody would defend another player. Essentially, the action of defending another player should not be considered scummy in and of itself.

[Netopalis]

In before Nikanor: Still not saying that I was defending TKABN, just that her position is untenable.

[Nikanor]

Essentially, the action of defending another player should not be considered scummy in and of itself.

It's scummy to defend someone you explicitly say is scummy in the same post.

[bv310]

BV: Ace is guilty because he defended you? That dose not make sense.


You also didn't exactly substantiate your vote against me earlier. You find me scummy because I asked questions, but you also liked my explanation for why I asked those questions? Your position is inconsistent.

I also don't like how you seem to be unable to reach a position on many players. You present some good ideas, but then discard because you "don't know how to handle" or "don't know how to read" them. You need to be firmer. Start taking a stance.

I find Ace suspicious because he was trying to both associate and distance himself from me. It seemed like he was trying to cover himself or cover his partner. If I got lynched and proven Town, he would be able to show his defending me and would seem innocent for it. If I got lynched and flipped scum, then he could show his blaming me and say he was right all along. If, on the other hand, he got lynched, then a scum flip on him would automatically cast a scum read on me because he defended me.

As for the "taking a stand" statement, I'd rather not be definitive, simply because I can't be. There's no way I can be certain about anybody until they're dead and have their role flipped.

[bv310]

I already substantiated my vote against you, before I realized you were an SE. If you weren't experienced, I would have found those questions (specifically the endgame ones) to be a quick attempt to read everyone and look for discrepancies.

[kirby_is_kyaan]

Sorry, I've been V/LA for a while, end of term exams and all that. I finish tomorrow, though, and for the most part I'll be hanging around not doing

too

much until next week.

[chauchaudotcom]

I guess I never thought of it that way before. But it still seems rather premature to me. You can virtually come up with a scenario that links any one of us to one another. My problem isn't with the analysis of relationships in itself but with the use of that analysis, at this stage, to accuse someone. Which is what tk did when he stated "guilt by association." Because then the premise of the claim depends entirely on a variable independent of the suspect being accused. It can be useful, yes, but at the same time I think it can be dangerous logic as well. I just feel that this sort of speculation would be far more beneficial after the first voting, until we either catch a scum or get farther into the game where we get to observe people's play styles a bit more.

In any case..

Mod can we prod Kirby please?

Unvote; Vote: Kirby

A pressure vote for the game's lurker.

[chauchaudotcom]

Oops, scratch that. It appears Kirby posted just before me.

I'll leave my vote there until he gets back though.

[Netopalis]

*sigh* Nikanor, "a bit suspicious" and "scummy enough to put a vote on" are two very different things.