Newbie 865 - Game over!

[imkingdavid]

You're free to do what you want. If you feel that it's a good time to hammer, do so. I was just pointing out the amount of time we had left.

Yeah, I'm just saying it didn't seem like a good idea to hammer immediately after someone points out we still have plenty of time.

Why did you want to hammer tracker, Gayle? The last time I saw reasons from you to lynch tracker was very early in the day.

At that time, I didn't think of anyone as outright scum, but I had more confidence in tracker being scum than anyone else, he was one away from lynch, and truthfully, I wanted the day to end. I just don't get tracker in general, and much of what he says doesn't make any sense to me. It was probably based more on feeling rather than fact.

That all said, I would not vote for tracker now. Re-reading the last two pages and tracker's posts, my suspicions have changed.

This post sounds like a lot of "I don't really care much about who gets lynched, I just want the day to end, but I don't want to draw attention to myself by ending after someone points out that it might not be beneficial to do so." Which is definitely NOT pro-town.
At best with all this you've struck up more discussion, which is good.

btw,

That all said, I would not vote for tracker now. Re-reading the last two pages and tracker's posts, my suspicions have changed.

That is why it is good to re-read instead of just hammering to end the day. BTW, this is post 172. The following is post 166:

I mean I was a going to hammer tracker, but IKD suggested that we still have a week and so there is no reason to rush it. I don't think much of the case against NCJ, and am still leaning towards lynching tracker.

What changed between 166 to 172? You seem to be in support for a tracker lynch but suddenly your suspicions have changed. Who have they changed to, then, and would you like to share?

I'm not liking this recent behavior at all.

FoS: Gayle

[Gayle]

What changed between 166 to 172? You seem to be in support for a tracker lynch but suddenly your suspicions have changed.

That all said, I would not vote for tracker now. Re-reading the last two pages and tracker's posts, my suspicions have changed.

I was looking forward to RPG calling me out on that.

[...] I don't want to draw attention to myself by ending after someone points out that it might not be beneficial to do so

Yes, that is right. Part of the reason I did not lynch is because I thought it would look suspicious. Am I wrong for not wanting to seem suspicious? The other part being that you suggested hammering might not be a good idea, so I didn't.

This post sounds like a lot of "I don't really care much about who gets lynched,

I didn't think of anyone as outright scum, but I had more confidence in tracker being scum than anyone else

Which means I was going to vote for tracker rather than anyone else.

Who have they changed to, then, and would you like to share?

The people I find most suspect are yourself, PE, and ncj. Yes, two of the three have questioned me recently.

I'm not liking this recent behavior at all. FoS: Gayle

By recent behavior do you mean the part where I've actually been responding to questions and posting instead of lurking? I've been answering honestly, that's all.

[PaltryExcuse]

If you could clarify what it is that you find scummy I'd be happy to explain.

[PaltryExcuse]

Actually, even NCJ and IKD too. Crazily enough, the most recent post does strike me as vehemently honest so my suspicions of you have gone down a great deal.

[PaltryExcuse]

Let me clarify that last statement:
I suspected you because you seemed to have few reasons for placing a vote on someone outside of impatience. It is good that a townie not try to be suspicious, but the overwhelming goal of a townie (and anyone playing for the town) is to lynch mafia. If you believe you've found a scum, you should lynch. However, caution is needed before jumping in, and if we can discuss things more, it would be more beneficial to the town.
Because you seemed to want to end the day sooner than needed and it seemed you were just looking for a lynch, I am suspicious of you.
However, your explanation leads me to believe you're just a newbie like me. It seems honest, so my gut says you're townie, although your words are slightly suspicious.
Any explanation you have on your suspicions will help you a great deal... so long as they're understandable (although some might disagree).


I might be wrong, in which case I expect the IC and SEs to say so. But let me quickly summarize: Quick-lynching and poor reasoning will make you suspicious, not hammering.

[RPG*Twilight]

I was looking forward to RPG calling me out on that.

What? I'm not even in your suspect list, yet you wanted me to answer? You were off my suspect list until these recent events, however. But if you're truly town and you say i'm truly town, why would you be waiting for a response that's not going to help you find scum? And on top of that, you have Kingdavid on your suspect list. Wouldnt you want him answering that more than me?

Yes, that is right. Part of the reason I did not lynch is because I thought it would look suspicious. Am I wrong for not wanting to seem suspicious? The other part being that you suggested hammering might not be a good idea, so I didn't.

See, I have no idea what you are trying to convey here. Do you not want to look suspicious because you're mafia, or just because you dont want to have to answer questions? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and go with the latter. But with all this "Other people playing my cards" business to look town, it's somewhat hard to believe that.

I'm glad you wanted to have more discussion, but is there a slight chance you are a scumbuddy that didnt want to lynch his mafia mate? Definitely. And it's so easy to mask that right now by using Kingdavid and I's "wait policy" as fodder.

It kind of seems, if that scenario is true, that you are kind of caught in a pickle. But all this is a lot of assuming going on, and is really just for hypothetical purposes right now, and I am, to be honest, kind of reaching. But it's all in the realm of possibility.

That all said, I would not vote for tracker now. Re-reading the last two pages and tracker's posts, my suspicions have changed.

What did he say? What made your suspicions change? Right now it's just this quote telling us it's changed, but I haven't seen why. I need some elaboration on this.


Going back to the "not hammering because you suggested it might not be a good idea"... while it seems pro town, it also seems like appeasement. Like you're saying "Well, it's only day 1, i'll just kind of follow the crowd." But also saying "If I follow the crowd, maybe, just maybe I can guide them to the correct lynch"... It almost seems a bit misleading. You've been pretty cryptic in your last few posts, ironically, while being honest, you say. Again, I may be reaching here, but you have given us quite a few avenues to look at.

FoS: Gayle

[RPG*Twilight]

I was looking forward to RPG calling me out on that.

What? I'm not even in your suspect list, yet you wanted me to answer? You were off my suspect list until these recent events, however. But if you're truly town and you say i'm truly town, why would you be waiting for a response that's not going to help you find scum? And on top of that, you have Kingdavid on your suspect list. Wouldnt you want him answering that more than me?

Yes, that is right. Part of the reason I did not lynch is because I thought it would look suspicious. Am I wrong for not wanting to seem suspicious? The other part being that you suggested hammering might not be a good idea, so I didn't.

See, I have no idea what you are trying to convey here. Do you not want to look suspicious because you're mafia, or just because you dont want to have to answer questions? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and go with the latter. But with all this "Other people playing my cards" business to look town, it's somewhat hard to believe that.

I'm glad you wanted to have more discussion, but is there a slight chance you are a scumbuddy that didnt want to lynch his mafia mate? Definitely. And it's so easy to mask that right now by using Kingdavid and I's "wait policy" as fodder.

It kind of seems, if that scenario is true, that you are kind of caught in a pickle. But all this is a lot of assuming going on, and is really just for hypothetical purposes right now, and I am, to be honest, kind of reaching. But it's all in the realm of possibility.

That all said, I would not vote for tracker now. Re-reading the last two pages and tracker's posts, my suspicions have changed.

What did he say? What made your suspicions change? Right now it's just this quote telling us it's changed, but I haven't seen why. I need some elaboration on this.


Going back to the "not hammering because you suggested it might not be a good idea"... while it seems pro town, it also seems like appeasement. Like you're saying "Well, it's only day 1, i'll just kind of follow the crowd." But also saying "If I follow the crowd, maybe, just maybe I can guide them to the correct lynch"... It almost seems a bit misleading. You've been pretty cryptic in your last few posts, ironically, while being honest, you say. Again, I may be reaching here, but you have given us quite a few avenues to look at.

FoS: Gayle

[RPG*Twilight]

I was looking forward to RPG calling me out on that.

What? I'm not even in your suspect list, yet you wanted me to answer? You were off my suspect list until these recent events, however. But if you're truly town and you say i'm truly town, why would you be waiting for a response that's not going to help you find scum? And on top of that, you have Kingdavid on your suspect list. Wouldnt you want him answering that more than me?

Yes, that is right. Part of the reason I did not lynch is because I thought it would look suspicious. Am I wrong for not wanting to seem suspicious? The other part being that you suggested hammering might not be a good idea, so I didn't.

See, I have no idea what you are trying to convey here. Do you not want to look suspicious because you're mafia, or just because you dont want to have to answer questions? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and go with the latter. But with all this "Other people playing my cards" business to look town, it's somewhat hard to believe that.

I'm glad you wanted to have more discussion, but is there a slight chance you are a scumbuddy that didnt want to lynch his mafia mate? Definitely. And it's so easy to mask that right now by using Kingdavid and I's "wait policy" as fodder.

It kind of seems, if that scenario is true, that you are kind of caught in a pickle. But all this is a lot of assuming going on, and is really just for hypothetical purposes right now, and I am, to be honest, kind of reaching. But it's all in the realm of possibility.

That all said, I would not vote for tracker now. Re-reading the last two pages and tracker's posts, my suspicions have changed.

What did he say? What made your suspicions change? Right now it's just this quote telling us it's changed, but I haven't seen why. I need some elaboration on this.


Going back to the "not hammering because you suggested it might not be a good idea"... while it seems pro town, it also seems like appeasement. Like you're saying "Well, it's only day 1, i'll just kind of follow the crowd." But also saying "If I follow the crowd, maybe, just maybe I can guide them to the correct lynch"... It almost seems a bit misleading. You've been pretty cryptic in your last few posts, ironically, while being honest, you say. Again, I may be reaching here, but you have given us quite a few avenues to look at.

FoS: Gayle

[RPG*Twilight]

I was looking forward to RPG calling me out on that.

What? I'm not even in your suspect list, yet you wanted me to answer? You were off my suspect list until these recent events, however. But if you're truly town and you say i'm truly town, why would you be waiting for a response that's not going to help you find scum? And on top of that, you have Kingdavid on your suspect list. Wouldnt you want him answering that more than me?

Yes, that is right. Part of the reason I did not lynch is because I thought it would look suspicious. Am I wrong for not wanting to seem suspicious? The other part being that you suggested hammering might not be a good idea, so I didn't.

See, I have no idea what you are trying to convey here. Do you not want to look suspicious because you're mafia, or just because you dont want to have to answer questions? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and go with the latter. But with all this "Other people playing my cards" business to look town, it's somewhat hard to believe that.

I'm glad you wanted to have more discussion, but is there a slight chance you are a scumbuddy that didnt want to lynch his mafia mate? Definitely. And it's so easy to mask that right now by using Kingdavid and I's "wait policy" as fodder.

It kind of seems, if that scenario is true, that you are kind of caught in a pickle. But all this is a lot of assuming going on, and is really just for hypothetical purposes right now, and I am, to be honest, kind of reaching. But it's all in the realm of possibility.

That all said, I would not vote for tracker now. Re-reading the last two pages and tracker's posts, my suspicions have changed.

What did he say? What made your suspicions change? Right now it's just this quote telling us it's changed, but I haven't seen why. I need some elaboration on this.


Going back to the "not hammering because you suggested it might not be a good idea"... while it seems pro town, it also seems like appeasement. Like you're saying "Well, it's only day 1, i'll just kind of follow the crowd." But also saying "If I follow the crowd, maybe, just maybe I can guide them to the correct lynch"... It almost seems a bit misleading. You've been pretty cryptic in your last few posts, ironically, while being honest, you say. Again, I may be reaching here, but you have given us quite a few avenues to look at.

FoS: Gayle

[RPG*Twilight]

Sorry for the triple (now quadruple post.) It stalled for 10 minutes while I waited...

[Gayle]

I was looking forward to RPG calling me out on that.

What? I'm not even in your suspect list, yet you wanted me to answer? [...]

No, this has nothing to do with suspicions, I just thought you'd out point the contradiction. It doesn't change the fact that I think you are town.

What did he say? What made your suspicions change?

Its more of what other people said. I'll give a more detailed reply to your post (and PE's posts) later in the day, as I'm short on time right now.

[tracker]

ok. i did get on today, really didn't think i would.

Mod: Can we get a prod on NCJ please?

Whenever, he posts again I'm going to build a case on him. until then I'm going back and looking over the situation with Gayle.

[Elmo]

Day 1, Vote Count #7

tracker (3) <- CommieX, Toon Fighter, Neo-con John
Neo-con John (3) <- PaltryExcuse, tracker, imkingdavid

Not voting: Canada, Gayle, RPG*Twilight

The

deadline

is Wednesday 25th November, 22:00 UTC, which is 4 days, 1 hour and 59 minutes from this post. If deadline hits, there will be No Lynch.
With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

CommieX & Neo-con John have been prodded.

[tracker]

Just checking in, I don't view Gayle as particulary scummy, still waiting for Neo-con John to respond. I might start looking at others but the day is starting to get late.

[Toon Fighter]

The day has been getting slow... With NCJ missing, what can we do? It's useless to keep building cases against him. It didn't bring him bak, and doesn't seem it will.

If you are so certain he is scum, maybe we should be looking into his supposed partner. It likely isn't tracker, as NCJ voted for him when he was at L-2. It likely isn't PE, after the strong arguments between the two (or maybe it IS him, WIFOM). Who is it? RPG? Gayle? Me?

IKD changed suspects again. Just noticing it.

[PaltryExcuse]

Activity has really died down. We need responses from two in particular: Gayle who promised them, and NCJ who has left the case against him responseless. However, I'd also like to hear from the three currently not voting, as with less than three days left, we're going to have to make a decision on who to lynch.

[Gayle]

Things turned out alot differently than I thought saturday, and as a result I'll be busy until tuesday night, and by then someone will have likely been bandwagoned.

Quickly, I am going to go ahead and vote for NCJ. While I suspect PE and IKD, I can't justify voting for them over NCJ, and at the very least they've actually been posting.

I realize this is a bad time to go V/LA, especially since I promised a post, so I won't fault town for whatever they decide.

VOTE: Neo-Con John

[imkingdavid]

Hey guys, sorry I didn't post recently; been bogged down with pre-Thanksgiving break homework that needs to be done. I'll try and answer a bulk of the questions I may have missed tomorrow.

But to answer Toon Fighter on a couple of things in his most recent post:

If you are so certain he is scum, maybe we should be looking into his supposed partner.

1) First of all, I say no to looking for scum partners at this point. I may have already said this in this game, or I might be thinking of another game, but it can only hurt the town to focus on who might be the partner of someone that might be scum. Since we have no knowledge of who one scum is, it doesn't help to look for links to tie the two together.
2) Who is this ambiguous "you"? "If

you

are so certain..." If you think otherwise, feel free to try and refute it. The way you worded it looks sounds like you're trying to reluctantly go along with people who find him scummy.

3)

IKD changed suspects again. Just noticing it.

?
I voiced a Finger of Suspicion on Gayle, but my vote is still on NCJ. At what point did I change suspects?
Is it illegal now to have more than one person under your radar? Truthfully, I am suspicious of everyone here, and you should be as well. The fact that I don't have an FoS on everyone just shows that some are more suspicious than others to me.
A vote doesn't tie you to only being suspicious to that person; you can and should look at others at the same time.

Ok,

@mod: NCJ and CommieX haven't posted. Because of the timing of the deadline, could we possibly get an extension if, either they do respond before deadline, or they get replaced before deadline?

@All: Ok, at this point it looks like it's down to tracker or NCJ for a lynch unless we have a last minute wagon in the next few days. Or if we don't come to an agreement, it's No Lynch. So everyone needs to make a decision before deadline or we'll basically waste a day.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Mod: Add Canada to the above two mentioned by IKD. Canada has not posted since last Thursday.

[PaltryExcuse]

PS. NCJ, this close to deadline, with you at L-1, I'd say it's time for you to claim. Claim away.

[RPG*Twilight]

Note- This was done all as a stream of conciousness, so if you need clarification, let me know.

Well this puts me at a very interesting position.

We have NCJ at L-1, and with Canada awol pretty much, that puts me as pretty much the last vote if he doesnt show. with the vote ending in just a little over 2 days, I'm at quite the predicament.

I do think the case on NCJ has legs, and given that tracker has contributed much more (comparatively) and has qualmed my doubts enough to unvote.... Man, I really dont know.

I really do think the more qualified lynch would be NCJ based on these facts:

1) His avoidance of this case on him now for a good 3 days, do we really need to wait for 3 days on cases? I understand the weekend it's a bit tough, but I actually think it's longer than 3 days. Can we really afford that in day 2/day 3, etc.?

2) Say my vote is on Tracker. That puts two people at L-1 with both either being V/LA or lurking or not even around here. Will we get our answers (Especially to the claim from NCJ, if he hasnt posted to defend his case... if he comes on and just role claims... would that be enough to distance him from his case, AND will we have enough time to move votes around if he's convincing enough, if that were even possible?) And even more important, if Canada doesnt come on and vote, we are at a NL, the worst worst worst possible situation we could put ourselves in.


3) If Canada does come on and vote NCJ and Canada sees this and uses this as fodder to hammer, it could be a pretty huge scum tell. This is the only point that has me doubting and wanting to wait. But again, do we expect him to pick his prod up and give a logical explanation to his lynch?

4) NCJ has been a pretty active lurker. Right now I think he'd be the BWCS. Even if he does flip town, what did we really lose?

I am tempted to wait until noon (PST- Pacific Standard time. 3 PM EST.) to make my final decision... yet, if Canada does vote tracker, will that be the one I think would be the best for the town? Should we wait for the claim? Will that be enough? Will we have time? He'd have to post in the next 12 hours to give enough time for everyone to see it, and I just dont think... well, come to think of it, maybe NCJ is hoping for a NL (Whether he is for it or not is irrelevant at this time) and thats why he's hiding.

Being at L-1, i'm wanting him to role claim as well... but I doubt that's going to help him,and us, and are we really going to believe him? We wouldnt have time for a counter-claim as well, and time for discussion of it all. 48 hours on this forum is not enough time for a new set of discussion to really happen, especially something as important as claims/counter claims.

So remove tracker from my list. I don't think NCJ would warrant my vote quite yet, nor would Gayle.

And this quote has me thinking we wont get a clear vote from Canada, therefore I think we should just move to the night.

Given all that, and really thinking through this in every possible scenario, I think we have our most qualified lynch in NCJ.

Vote: NCJ

Hopefully we have the correct lynch. I'd rather have this than a NL, and that seemed to be the only other option, given Canada's stance.

[imkingdavid]

Well, that's the hammer, and now we wait. BTW, discussion can continue up until the mod posts the death scene.

As a general tip for all, but geared towards newer players, once the mod posts the death scene and reveals the role of the lynchee, go back and read back through the thread with this new knowledge. It will help when discussion picks back up on Day 2.

[Toon Fighter]

3)

IKD changed suspects again. Just noticing it.

?
I voiced a Finger of Suspicion on Gayle, but my vote is still on NCJ. At what point did I change suspects?
Is it illegal now to have more than one person under your radar? Truthfully, I am suspicious of everyone here, and you should be as well. The fact that I don't have an FoS on everyone just shows that some are more suspicious than others to me.
A vote doesn't tie you to only being suspicious to that person; you can and should look at others at the same time.

About IKD, he seems very incongruent on his votes and accusations. He voted RPG, chenged his vote to me, the he forgot he had voted for me and unvoted, then paltryexcuse reminded him of that and he voted for me again, and now he seems on the verge of voting tracker. Those are a lot of suspect changes...

(post 115)

After that you removed vote from me, voted NCJ and FoS Gayle.

About 2), I never voted or accused NCJ. Only the rest of the town did. I have nothing against the bandwagon, and that is why I didn't try to refute it, but I have nothing to add aswell.[/quote]

[Elmo]

Day 1, Vote Count #8

Neo-con John (5) <- PaltryExcuse, tracker, imkingdavid, Gayle, RPG*Twilight
tracker (3) <- CommieX, Toon Fighter, Neo-con John

Not voting: Canada

The

deadline

is Wednesday 25th November, 22:00 UTC, which is 1 day, 21 hours and 46 minutes from this post. If deadline hits, there will be No Lynch.
With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

---

Neo-con John

,

Mafia Goon

, has been lynched!

Night 1 falls. Day 2 will dawn before Thursday 26th November, 22:00 UTC, which is 2 days, 21 hours and 46 minutes from this post.
Any night actions are due before then; if you don't get it in, I'll randomly make one for you.

[Elmo]

RPG*Twilight

,

Vanilla Townie

, has been killed!

Day 2 dawns. The

deadline

is Wednesday, 17th December 20:00 UTC, which is 20 days, 13 hours and 50 minutes from this post.
With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.