Big Brother Mafia - Town wins!

[Sironigous]

/confirm!

[Sironigous]

nominate saberwolf

for HoH... Extra brownie points in Chambers?

[Sironigous]

I don't want HoH, so I don't mind there.

Oh.

Un-nominate

[quote="Crazy]b. The HoH will still have to listen to the majority of the town to a reasonable extent. [/quote]

I guess that's true... the HoH will be a figurehead. :S

ack, i think i'll have to get more later.

[Sironigous]

HoH applicationform

1) Do you think it matters a good/experienced player gets elected as HoH?

Honestly, no. I mean, obviously on entry level HoH may seem like a way to hunt scum, i.e. choosing an influential townie and extremely scummy player. But in this style, the HoH primarily has to follow what the group says as a whole - nominations based on the public. Anyone can follow someone else...

2) Do you think HoH should be guided by town? (as in, we still vote, and HoH picks the highest 2 in the VC)

I see the power of HoH as an open powerrole. Unlike setups where you automatically die when you're wrong, this one keeps you alive to take any consequences. Should the HoH be guided by town?... well, by completely relying on the town for nominations sets them free from blame. However, acting by himself or herself is suspicious. Overall, the HoH should take what the town says with a grain of salt but still keep his own preferences.

AHA!

This may sound strange, but how about we have a little system where...

HoH nominates his own candidate and posts reasons of the choice, filling out a form similar to this one on why his candidate was chosen. (to be made...)

The rest choose collectively choose a candidate to nominate.

I mean, this way sets better insight into the HoH's viewpoint. True, the HoH's candidate may have less initial influence, but if the HoH really wants that person gone he or she will have to provide a persuasive reason why.

3) If you are very suspicious of someone, would you pick him together with a seemingly town person if you were HoH to be sure your suspect gets lynched?

See above ^_^. But other than that, yes for sure. That is what they do in the real show, aye? .. either that or two extremely scummy players.

4) If i were HoH, i would pick ___ and ___

I am currently undecided on this question.

Though, question for all: is picking 2 scummy players together for nomination or one scummy and one townie player?

nominate: Sironigous for HoH

i feel honored!~ it's not a lynching vote!

[Sironigous]

@Sironigous: In your response to question 2 of Grandi's now oft-quoted questions, you mention that an HoH acting by him/herself is suspicious. Why? Isn't independent thought what we're looking for in an HoH?

wait, we are looking for independent thought? >.< I feel like the HoH will just turn into a title name controlled by town on the risk of suspicion. I mean, if the HoH comes up with "unfavorable nominations" it casts suspicion on him or her, which is probably not what they want...

i dunno! However you look at it!

[Sironigous]

If doing what I think will get scum lynched makes me look scummy, I'll do it anyway.

Blah. TRUE! It's just the outcome that could do not so good stuff. eh...

bleh, open vig. -_-

'Unfavorable' nominations could weed out hiding scum... or it could hurt town. Still, I think it foolish to deny the HoH that freedom. If they make scummy nominations, they deserve to be under suspicion, rather than just go with the town. 'Unfavorable' nominations could weed out hiding scum... or it could hurt town. Still, I think it foolish to deny the HoH that freedom. If they make scummy nominations, they deserve to be under suspicion, rather than just go with the town.

I guess I'm fine with any nominations with, well, valid reason and logic...

---

What do you guys think we should do about gut feeling nominations? XD

[Sironigous]

There's a high probability that if the person we end up evicting today is scum, that the HoH is also scum.

...

well...

if first is scum - 10 left over - 3 scum and 7 town.
probability of one being scum - nominations...

2(7/10 x 3/9) --- same thing as (7/10 x 3/9 + 3/9 x 7/10) = .46666...%

Probability of both scum... (3/10) x (2/9) .0666....%

if one scum is chosen...

2/6 required votes are already "certain" for the scum group...

if both are scum... well, a scum is definitely voted off... unless of course coup d'etat comes into play.

^^^Is this all right?

---

So... people arent self-nomming. Why?

I dunno.

I will nominate: Discode because since joining the game this player has posted the most comprehensive questions and reasoning, trying to keep discussion going and outing the scum.

I feel that this is Town behaviour and Discode will do a good job of listening to town when nominating the evictees.

Is this what HoH should do? :S I guess I'm still trying to figure out what makes a good HoH.

HoH isn't like a president.. I think, sigh.

[Sironigous]

AHH. Scratch above, I thought there were 13 players.

[Sironigous]

so... uh... we have 2 days to decide HoH.

With farside's votecount it seems like it's either Sensfan or SlySly...

um...

correct me if I'm wrong, but I only see 2 SensFan posts in this game... one being his confirm post and the other saying he'd use the PJ system.

Reading Llamafluff's description it seems like that system is exactly like the suspect is publicly chosen... with the exception of the extra king power to move someone to that list with no apparent reason.


I'm inclined to nominate Slysly now, who definitely has more posts...
I think he has more content too.

so...

Nominate SlySly

[Sironigous]

Sly seems to be trying a little hard at certain points

Is this bad? >.<

[Sironigous]

Yeah, that's silly...

If he is a floater and all 3 voting him are floaters, that would make them the same faction, would it not? The way you have stated it makes it sound like you know he is scum and are now jumping on the bandwagon to try and get your scum buddy in power.

...
bleh

Well, I have only played in one game with zwet, and he actually played pretty good. I don't know what everyone else's meta is on him, but that is beside the point. With what you have said here, it sounds as though there was reason behind your vote on him which would make it not random, in my opinion. I can see that you may have been placing an element of humor in your vote so I will chalk it up as a joke vote based on personal meta, which some people consider random. To me, that still does not excuse the possibility of motive you raised in your "seemingly random" statement.

that too...

I think I'm fine with everything else he has said though.

I mean stuff like picking apart the meaning of "semi-random" and the meaning of "faction." I could be wrong, but to me stuff like that seems unnatural, and yes, that is bad.

Mm. I can see the angle you're coming from, but I really do think he's trying.

I guess that's why he got my vote to be the first HoH!

[Sironigous]

Mm. I can see the angle you're coming from, but I really do think he's trying.

I guess that's why he got my vote to be the first HoH!

Meh, I think you should be voting for people who have some support and have at least somewhat similar suspicions as you, hence my vote for kmd over sly. I think he has a better shot at nomming people I want lynched then sly does.

Hey, that's an interesting way to look at HoH...

Since you can't nominate yourself, you nominate someone who'll do something that you want done instead...

[Sironigous]

^^ I scratched that.

I messed up trying to figure out what Zwet said.

[Sironigous]

When I said what Zwet said, I meant this...

There's a high probability that if the person we end up evicting today is scum, that the HoH is also scum.

[Sironigous]

Part dual wagons, part his secondaries seems better then your secondaries.

Since you used the word secondary...

aha! correct me if I'm wrong... for clarification...

This means everyone's primary choice is saber?

[Sironigous]

If scum are lurking, then it means that they are satisfied with either: 1. who is going to be HoH [suggests scum]

could you clarify the reasoning on this? I'm reading it as... satisfied with HoH right now as scum nominating scum for HoH, which is contradictory on your part considering you're voting for SlySly as well.

Though I don't think this is what you meant!

2. the know that the two being put up arent of their faction, which would be worrisome.

Unless the person is of course a floater. ^_^

[Sironigous]

Ah! Scratch point 2, I read your statement wrong!... Right, a prerequisite for the statement is that the person lurking is scum!

Oops!

[Sironigous]

um, all in all with this talk over secondary choices.

it seems like the saber is going to be voted off anyway - KMD, Sens, Llama, Finch, Zwet, Snow, SlySly, discode, and Palty are all against saber. (9 - either way, saber is voted off)

...Secondary choices don't matter?

[Sironigous]

oh wow simulpost!

[Sironigous]

.. I knew my initial choice as saber as HoH made SOME sense. XD

[Sironigous]

I guess SlySly is our official first HoH, that is, unless something happens within 16 hours.

I won't be here though so my vote can't change...

[Sironigous]

while sir is voted due to his number talk, which I find to be a distraction

(also, the certainty he uses when putting down scum in numbers is rather odd).

ahhh.

wait, so what zwet said previously had no impact? o_o. it's relevance!
Also, why the bolded? o_O. How's that odd?

Also, Sens -

I will 100% be putting him up for eviction tomorrow if I get HOH, and so should anyone else who gets it. There quite simply is absolutely no pro-Town reason he should completely cut off discussion and 'steal' HOH, rather than go with the agreement of the majority.

I don't understand how he stole HoH. Could you explain that?

[Sironigous]

...
for nomination.. in order


Sensfan - expecting someone other than SlySly to be nominated for HoH after coming back to the game less than 2 days before deadline. The fact he's attacking SlySly now makes it even worse. (of course, this might change after he answers my previous post)

Generally everyone who refused to get onto a major wagon for HoH nomination (most notably Llamafluff and Mr Finch)- According to what those who wanted to become nominees said, SABER WAS ALREADY GOING TO BE PUT UP FOR EVICTION. There is no apparent reason to me for why they would not switch to someone else with that same

primary

suspect. I cannot think of any other reason other than the fact that they could use this fact later as corroboration for their faction when saber turns out town or when they are put up for eviction. (I mean, this one can always be reversed if I, well, actually understand their reasoning)

If any special powers exist in the game (ie: power of veto), they will be a one-shot ability that can be passed onward to other players

according to the pre-crowning period, the only reason saber would get the veto is if he won it. Notice that most of us (myself included) didn't notice that the power of veto existed. (once again, correct me if I'm wrong)

Snow_Bunny - not reading my posts and answering my questions. -_-

---

Generally my nominations are still subject to change.

[Sironigous]

Oh, SlySly, could you add your preferred nominations to the list too?

[Sironigous]

... Oh seriously SlySly, you have no specific nominations now, after you were crowned?...

I nominated you because I really thought you knew what you were doing...

FoS: SlySly

[Sironigous]

... Oh seriously SlySly, you have no specific nominations now, after you were crowned?...

I nominated you because I really thought you knew what you were doing...

FoS: SlySly

I want everyone to give me the two people they would like me to put up.

I will then share my thoughts of each player in the game and the reasoning behind the 2 I have picked for nomination. At that point I will listen to everyone's thoughts on my picks before solidifying them.

On the second quote -

um, through the nomination part you were pretty confident in your picks - saber and sens - why not just tell us where you stand now without officially solidifying them as victims for eviction?

Am I right in assuming that now that you've realised this, you're no longer suspicious of me for...uhhh...being suspicious of Sly (not that that's any form of logic anyways)?

Ohhhh. No no no - that's not why I put you there.

Farside said the deadline was 24 hours from now.

Sorry, when you say "now," do you mean today? As in the deadline date she somewhere posted was messed up? >.< The only reason I was suspecting you is because you came back less than 2 days before the official deadline expecting that someone other than SlySly (the candidate leader by about 2 votes at the time - N-1?) and how you attacked him for becoming HoH.

Reading through the posts I read something like everyone got a prod; was the indiscretion there?

He argued to cut off discussion and stop the Town from having more time to make a more informed decision. The only possible rationale is that he was scared that people were coming around and he would lose HOH. There is literally no pro-Town reason to argue with a Mod to cut off discussion prematurely.

Ahhh that's what you meant. No wonder I missed that.

So, I guess the post-nomination question is...
Where do you think discussion would have gone?

[Sironigous]

Ahhh sorry - V/LA until Sunday... school has been bugging me a little. I think I can get a post in tomorrow though..

[Sironigous]

Oh wow.
From Page 14...

@Snowbunny regarding that question...

How is numbers bad when I'm trying to explain what someone else said? (which that someone else still didn't explain)... I even scratched it when I messed up right after.

Thus, Sironigus was the first one to concretely suggest that the HoH not necessarily listen to the town. While others hinted that the HoH should not be a sheep, Sironigus put it into suggestion format. The intent seems good...that Sironigus wants to see the HoHs input without the players running the entire show during that timeperiod, but in honesty, it's tough to be the HoH and not show a single bit of input at the same time.

Arr- that's what it was. One HoH nominee and one town nominee. There is no way to isolate both of them.

So to suggest a concrete plan that allows the HoH to go against the will of the town (especially right after Mr Finch announced that this is particularly what could lead the town into failure)... I have to see this as suspicious. Furthermore, I'm surprised Mr Finch didn't call Sironigus out so early. Especially if I read this post carefully enough.

I think you're overexaggerating; it's not completely against the town. Besides, in order for the HoH candidate to be evicted, he needs to win the

support of the town.

Obviously if the HoH candidate is townish, the town candidate is probably going to be evicted anyway.

When Sironigus is called out for talking about independent thought, then backs off quite quickly into obscurity. Sironigus seems to be laying back so early for thinking that he had a nice little suggestion going on early. Says a lot of words without really having a stance on anything. Also, there's this weird post in which Sironigus asks for clarification on something about lurkers...and it almost reads as if Sironigus is defending against a future allegation that he himself is a lurker.

This is more over the discussion of what HoH actually is... I'll keep my beliefs with that, you guys can keep yours...
(i.e. - Tracker - to find power roles or catch mafia)

Presented up distracting numbers nonsense. Has given some absolutely stupid reasons for some of his stances.

AHH.

Numbers was ONE post that I quickly took back after. GEEZ, I didn't even try to fix it.

---

I was pretty o_O with KMD nomination...

---

DisCode nominee was sudden also.

On DisCode/BV vs. SensFan/Hewitt...

I'm more likely to vote for Hewitt now, based on Sensfan.

Right now the only thing DisCode has on him is his initial posts.. and that post BV made.

---

Did I stutter? I wanted you on the block because

1 - I think YOU are scum

. Since I didn't think that would be successful, I went for the guy you wanted in power because if you are scum wanting a lurker in power, that

2-suggest HE might be scum too.

1 - @SlySly - if DisCode turns town, would that change your view on Llama?
2 -... That's stretching it. Don't like this reasoning at all.

Ugh, that was bleh. I probably missed a bunch of info.

[Sironigous]

OK, 5 votes on BV... 1 on Hewitt.

Since votes are irrevocable.. uh.. everyone hast to vote Hewitt so that BV won't get nommed.

Personally I thought Sensfan was scummier than DisCode (emotional vs not here), though I see BV scummier than Hewitt.
(Hewitt is actually here more and posts)

If this trend continues, I would definitely vote for BV. If no one else has anything else to say I'll vote... or someone else will.

[Sironigous]

Just in case...

Vote: BV

/sigh

Wonder who he'll choose as HoH...

[Sironigous]

Hey again!

Right now, I'm definitely leaning toward SlySly primarily because of the HoH reign -

I definitely did not like the DisCode/BV nomination after paltry vetoed KMD - there were so many better choices.
As for listening to the town, he really didn't - KMD nomination was terrible already.
Personally I thought Sensfan nomination was fine though.

@SlySly - so has DisCode flipping town changed your view on Llama?

[note: HoH really is telling... kudos to those who thought of it as a role to find more information]

Though, I should truly NOT leave out Snow_Bunny.

Seriously....

So, what can I say to defend myself? The points against me are mostly truth. I didn't commit much to scumhunting, and mostly didn't add anything. The only thing I can say is that it's better a scum dead than an useless floater dead. Isn't it? Sly proved through all D1 to be really scummy, first with the rush to the deadline and then ignoring town when nominating (and making bad nominations, also). He has based his arguments in poor reasons, and has failed, in my eyes, to act town.

You're calling yourself a useless floater... eh... Instead of lesser of two towns... this is lesser of two evils?...

@Snow_Bunny: well, technically scum CAN lead information about their partners... or confuse the town. Though, assuming the latter, that's better than a useless floater. >.<

I'd honestly be happy with either of them evicted this nomination.

@Hewitt: Nice picks. ^_^

Current status: voting for whoever has the most votes.

[Sironigous]

Well, if I am evicted, the next HoH will not be kmd, Paltry or Llama. kmd and Paltry are on a scum team together and everyone is buying their crap. I predict their scum team will win this game. Most likely, I will give it to pablito.

Since you haven't answered, I figure you still think Llama is scum after DisCode/BV flipped town.

Before I vote...

Snow, would you like to rephrase/recreate your your argument?...

[Sironigous]

@sir - the vote is tied, who do you vote?

... good question.

Honestly I'm hoping it doesn't get to this, but I'll figure that out after Snow Bunny comes back and answers my question on the previous page and (possibly) rephrases her argument...

What she said was extremely extremely weak.

My vote goes to her if she does nothing.

[Sironigous]

Vote: SlySly

L-1 SlySly Sirs and Missus's

And that's a wrap.

I actually started writing this before BV posted. -_-

[Sironigous]

What does everyone think about the Sironigous+Snow_Bunny relationship? For some reason they both seem to suspect each other and Sironigous' vote is a bit willy-nilly and hammers Sly in the end. Especially when Sir has not been around as much and happens to be more active when Snow_bunny is on the block.

Wow I never recognized that. o_o
What a coincidence...

And in the end, Sironigous's voting criteria is just plain horrendous.

Awh, it is? Why's that? >.<


Also one more thing,
@pablito - why's it a quicklynch? >.<

[Sironigous]

Oh yeah, one more thing...

I'm still gonna withhold my vote, as I think discussion can still go onward for good cause. No need to end the day early.

a lil trivial but...
you make it sound like there's a day/night phase where discussion stops... >.<...
could you explain what you meant here?

[Sironigous]

Voting whoever has the most votes is one of the worst reasons to vote someone.

Arghh. As I said, I wanted both of them lynched. Hewitt picked great noms; I felt both of them were scummy in their own right (I did say I was leaning Sly but eh...)...
Basically if I were a vig I'd hit both of them. -_-

[Sironigous]

Sir, if you're picked as HoH, who do you put up then and why?

Hey neat!

For sure, my first nomination would be

Snow_Bunny

-
for no means did I think of her not scummy (I thought of Sly as scummier).

This would be for all the aforementioned reasons:
-acknowledging herself as a useless floater

Interesting too if Sly is scum... If he's not I guess it's null.

Snow_bunny - seems pro-Town. Light contributions so far, but nothing stands out as scummy or anti-town to me. Could snow be genius scum flying way below the radar?

My second nomination is variable... If Sly is scum it would be

saberwolf/BV

-

Primarily based on saberwolf...

Remember, saberwolf was the TOP pick pre-HOH period - Sly even said he would nominate him. Somehow he managed to slide by without even a nomination. He hasn't said much different unto this point (heh). I see no reason for them not to be connected.

If Sly is town, I have no idea at the moment to be honest.

[Sironigous]

the latter. if we consider how votes may end up falling...well we might have a 6-4 vote on our hands (with lots of late votes though...). Thus, he could've actually given us a tie vote if he wanted to.

So he could have actually been forced to make a choice to put it back to hewitt, but decided not to.

Sorry, I should've addressed this earlier;

Sorry, why would I have wanted to get a tie vote? o_o

[Sironigous]

Sir, it's a hypothetical. It's just that you really didn't seem to have a solid base on what you were voting, so I would just assume you'd be willing to vote either.

Perfectly correct! I was/am willing to vote either. :d I still want Snow_Bunny evicted too, heh.

[Sironigous]

I'll just wait to see what Sly flips. :s
Strangely everyone else voted Snow_Bunny after my "hammer" vote.

Argh. My V/LA is going to start tomorrow. >.<

If I post at all, it'll be from an iTouch; don't expect them to be very long or comprehensive. >.< I'm still getting used to it.

[Sironigous]

About Snow_Bunny? Nothing.

About the players afterwards?

well..

A. they truly believe Sly is town/Snow_Bunny is scummier than Sly.
B. they don't care about their votes after
C. they're avoiding blame from Sly's lynch if he appears town [disconnecting from Snow_Bunny/connecting to Sly]

Personally, I'd really like to say C for all of them (heh, mine was the hammer vote after all! I have to!) Though in order to see if I'm right, I'll have to reread those who voted for Snow and see how drastically their opinion changed through that vote.

[argh, packing! I'll get it after V/LA finishes]

[Sironigous]

Vote Snow_Bunny
Vote bv

Aforementioned reasons...

[Sironigous]

Vote Snow_Bunny
Vote bv

Aforementioned reasons...

...That's all you've got to say?

yeah sorry; can't say much ATM as I'm on an iTouch for this V/LA

[Sironigous]

You guys do know I mean my aforementioned reasons, right? K was asked already...

Sir, if you're picked as HoH, who do you put up then and why?

Hey neat!

For sure, my first nomination would be

Snow_Bunny

-
for no means did I think of her not scummy (I thought of Sly as scummier).

This would be for all the aforementioned reasons:
-acknowledging herself as a useless floater

Interesting too if Sly is scum... If he's not I guess it's null.

Snow_bunny - seems pro-Town. Light contributions so far, but nothing stands out as scummy or anti-town to me. Could snow be genius scum flying way below the radar?

My second nomination is variable... If Sly is scum it would be

saberwolf/BV

-

Primarily based on saberwolf...

Remember, saberwolf was the TOP pick pre-HOH period - Sly even said he would nominate him. Somehow he managed to slide by without even a nomination. He hasn't said much different unto this point (heh). I see no reason for them not to be connected.

If Sly is town, I have no idea at the moment to be honest.