Mafia 102: No-Frills Game Thread(Town wins!)

[charter]

Charter, I agree Peanut's last post is weird, but do you think some of it might be due to his relatively recent entrance?

Not really. He's much scummier for refusing to comment on bigmc yesterday, and then calling me Kaiveran's scumbuddy when I asked him about it. He could have given a legit reason to vote muh (since there are a lot of them), but his reason is very weak.

Well, in Charter and Crypto's case, because of who they suspect. I look at charter's list and I noticed a common theme for all 4 of his suspects. Not one was on the bigmc lynch. Not one. Guess what, AT LEAST one of the remaining scum is on that lynch. No way would both scum avoid the chance to bus a partner and appear townie once it was clear how the wind was blowing. In a wagon this big it is extremely common to find scum in the last 2 or 3 to hop on the wagon (i.e. Crypto), and yet, not one of Charter's list is even ON the wagon. In Crypto's case the only person on the wagon was the second one voting. Highly unlikely. Way more likely that Charter voted a scum partner early on, another common tactic, and then left his vote on his partner when the wagon grew and had to keep it there to look more townie by pointing to his starting a scum wagon. Very common tactics. Also, notice the agreement between Crypto and Charter's list. If one turns up scum, at this point I would definitely suspect a connection between them. I also feel Crypto is smart enough to realize it would suspicious to NOT include a suspect on the wagon and picked poorly.

Have you actually read this game? That's a serious question, because it doesn't look like you have at all. Guess what, not voting for a scumbag is scummy, doubly so when you defend that scumbag, which is what a bunch of people on my list did. I can't believe you're trying to push suspicion on me because I tried to lynch bigmc, that's just a terrible reason.

Care to provide me a single example of where I did this? I never voted Pom, ever, I never deviated from Muh on D1 once I voted him (mostly because of my net going down), and most of my arguing was with Serial about who was the better lynch of Muh and bigmc. I don't think I even mentioned Pom once I voted Muh, while I did consistently say that while bigmc was scummy I thought Muh was more so.

Doh, I think I had muh and Pom blurred together in my head. You always preferred muh, but you made lots of statements passively defending bigmc, such as these.

I'm still happy with my vote on Muh, Bigmc has at least put his arguments out there and on the line, Muh seems to be sitting back and letting things happen, not really getting involved since he's been called out on his vote. Oh, and as for him becoming more active since being asked to, being active and jumping on the first and most opportune candidate are different things.

Bgmc, quite possibly scum, certainly up there, I just tend to like the fact that he's talkative, prepared to defend his position. I think that his attack on Staples was opportunistic, ie scummy. However, the fact that he's prepared to defend that position and not back down makes me think it was less opportunistic and more thought out than I initially thought.

I voted Muh before Bigmc did what you think was scummy, I don’t think Muh has done anything to remove my vote, Bigmc has been posting, scumhunting etc. I want my vote on Muh for reasons previously stated.

I can see why Bmc looks scummy, what I'm not sold on is that this is one of 'the most obvious D1 lynches ever'. From what I can see he made a fairly innocuous comment about voting someone tomorrow, and some people have a meta game on him based on 1(?) scum game?

He did what I, and others, thought was an opportunistic attack on Staples, but his willingness to back that up when attacked over it makes it seem less opportunistic. Someone who jumps on the wagon and never defends the position (or even posts) seems much more opportunistic and scummy to me.

Now that bigmc has flipped scum, your constant defending of him day one is more than lynchworthy.

---------------------

Super Accurate* Vote Count(as of post 1050):

muh316 - 5(hiphop, mask man, The Inquisition, Empking, peanutman)
crypto - 2(Sando, Kreriov)
peanutman - 1(charter)

Not Voting:Trumpet of Doom, Kaiveran, Pyromaniac, crypto, muh316

It takes 7 to lynch, 5 at deadline.

*Not guaranteed to be accurate.

[Kreriov]

Ah, look at that. A pre-emptive adhom attack from Crypto. Link the last game, Crypto. The reverse was true and I had to replace out because I would and WILL NOT tolerate your 'abrasiveness'. I have already seen some some of it against others in this thread. I replaced in AS A FAVOR. This time, I will simply ask the mod to modkill you rather than put up with any form of abuse from you. Instead of attacking me ad hominem, try actually using logic. You pushed the Pom wagon. You actively avoided the BMC wagon D1 and in fact derailed it by starting the Pom wagon. I do not know yet what happened D2, but you put the L-1 vote on BMC, the classic bus vote. And NOW rather than just acknowledge those points and drive on, you resort to an ad hominem attack. Nervous much?

[charter]

@charter - did you see my reasoning? Is there a reason you suspect nobody on BMCs wagon? Especially when there is so much overlap between it and Poms wagon?

If you look at my reasons for suspecting who I do, none of them are 'because they weren't on Bigmc's wagon'. All of my reasons are how they defended or acted with regard to Bigmc. Your reason for finding me suspicious is really bad.

[Sando]

Now that bigmc has flipped scum, your constant defending of him day one is more than lynchworthy.

Why are you ignoring that crypto much more explicitly defended bigmc, and actively tried (and succeeded) in getting a townie lynched over Bigmc?

[charter]

I'm not ignoring it. I think your constant 'bigmc is scummy, but not the scumiest' is scummier than crypto's constant flip flopping and vote hopping.

Crypto's play really doesn't factor in to why you are scum and need to be lynched.

[Sando]

All of my reasons are how they defended or acted with regard to Bigmc.

If you want to find me scummy for that, fine, but crypto doesn't even feature on your scum list despite going out of his way to defend bigmc and push the lynch of a townie, and you've now stated that all of your reasons are for their interactions with Bigmc.

You are completely ignoring it.

Why do you not find crypto scummy for his constant defending of bigmc and his active movement of the wagon onto a townie?

[Kreriov]

@Charter - Did YOU read MY posts? I clearly say I have not read D2. Not voting for a scumbag is a null tell. YOU say he is scummy. Reasonable townies might not see it that way. There is a reason the last 2 or 3 spots on a wagon are considered bus spots. Not always accurate and not always true, just like almost all scum tells, which is why I do not go off just one tell usually. You could be right. I might change my opinion even more once I read D2. The fact that you suspected BMC for specific and good reasons on D1 means I certainly think it less likely you fit into the category of starting a wagon on a scum partner to appear townie later then getting caught there when it really grew and would be suspicious to jump off. However, it is certainly possible not a single scum were on BMC's wagon, but is NOT the way to bet. You listed four people. When you list 25% of the game as being scummy and not one of those scum is on the BMC wagon, well, I find that suspicious. Do try to not overreact like you just did either. ESPECIALLY when you say something foolish and insulting like asking if I have read the game when I just said I have not read D2.

So maybe instead of jumping the gun and getting all defensive, you should give me time to read, follow the logic I have laid out, and not look foolish.

[Kreriov]

@charter - For example, I really have not seen Sando defending BMC. If he does in D2, I will get to it. For much of D1 CRYPTO was the big BMC defender until Serial slapped him down enough with actual facts.

[crypto]

Actually, Kreriov, my remark was more due to how you're relying on childish wiki-type arguments to get my lynch. Go back and reread. And get off your fucking hypocritical soapbox. You're being as aggressive as I am.

You look 100% town, though, so whatever.

[crypto]

Sando, you did not fucking know that Pom was a townie before her flip. She was the scummiest person in the game. Feel free to rant against me all you want, but your abuse of 20/20 hindsight is pathetically weak.

[crypto]

Oh, and Kreriov, get your fucking facts straight. I'm pretty sure I was going after Pomegranate before the BMC wagon gained any momentum whatsoever.

[Sando]

Sando, you did not fucking know that Pom was a townie before her flip. She was the scummiest person in the game. Feel free to rant against me all you want, but your abuse of 20/20 hindsight is pathetically weak.

Why are you accusing me of being scum then? If I was scum, I would know Pom was a townie.

Nice slip crypto, why are we not lynching him now?!

[crypto]

English, please.

[charter]

@Charter - Did YOU read MY posts? I clearly say I have not read D2.

Ok, then you finish reading up on the game and then post your thoughts. No sense in accusing people of being scum when you don't even know the whole picture.

Why do you not find crypto scummy for his constant defending of bigmc and his active movement of the wagon onto a townie?

Except, crypto didn't constantly defend bigmc. He voted him numerous times.

@charter - For example, I really have not seen Sando defending BMC. If he does in D2, I will get to it. For much of D1 CRYPTO was the big BMC defender until Serial slapped him down enough with actual facts.

I already pointed out where Sando defended Bigmc during day one. You need to reread the whole game it seems because Sando's preference of not voting Bigmc was very obvious.

[crypto]

Okay, I'm going to reread and see if I can find anything from BMC's iso. For now, Inquisition's going in the town list for BMC's hardcore attacks on Staple (although Staple had already been gravitating in that direction in any case).

[crypto]

Lynches I'd be good with based on previous reads and BMC's iso.

Trumpet of Doom
Kaiveran
Sando
muh316
Pyromaniac
peanutman

Organized in vague order of preference.

Vote: Trumpet of Doom.

[charter]

Why Kaiveran? I wouldn't lynch him just because he's not posting, he's modding a game I'm in and he's barely there either.

[Pyromaniac]

@mod, is the cop guaranteed to be sane?

[Scigatt]

@mod, is the cop guaranteed to be sane?

No.

[Kaiveran]

I'm sorry, mod, I should have given you an LA notice. Family time is not conducive to mafia around Thanksgiving.

Anyways, I'm trying out this new system of copying posts into a word document and annotating them. With this I hope not only to play more effectively but eliminate the corsury use of long quote-trains and walls of text. You, however, don't care, so I'll get to what I have so far.

The past:

My suspicion of Trumpet of Doom grows. Things have progressed and he's still lurking his ass off, and still hasn't gotten around to posting anything that could be called scumhunting or even content.

Not liking Sando for his previous behavior. His tirade was mostly ad hom based and expressed little desire to hear any counterarguments out. It seemed that he ignored a lot of what crypto said in response and just kept hammering away with "omg crypto is useless."

Peanut seems to have a very "soft" playing style compared to the others in here. He also seems rather passive. Even if he is a replacement, I get a noncommittal vibe from him and his playing stands out to me.

The Inquisition has been quite shy, popping in on occasion to make brief posts. I see that this activity continues into today. Don't be scared, post some content (lol hypocrisy)

The Present:

Pyromaniac has been very passive and his only post into my current reading was a contentless congratulatory post, which I regard as a minor scumtell.

Charter is, in a way, my biggest player analysis headache. He is very confident in his reads and seems fairly protown, even when going back on an overconfidence-framed wagon vote on muh. Post 1025 (the change of heart in question) has a nice, big, town-y chunk of content too. In spite of all this, I keep getting this nagging, almost irrational passive/lurker vibe about him. I also don't like the fact that
he "knows a whole slew of townies." This is more gut than anything else. I feel physically ill trying to puzzle this out, so I'll leave it alone for now.

Not supporting the muh lynch. Though I am suspicious of him for his fluff-padded posts and attitude, the circumstances surrounding our confirmed scum put him low on the need-to-lynch list.

Oh, sando. What are we going to do with you? Not only do you continue your tirade against crypto (although with slightly more substantial evidence), you misrep charter's case on you and subsequently try to counter his arguments using said misrep. Based on the posts I've thoroughly mulled over, you don't seem to be a likely town candidate.

Ending this post early because
A) people need to know I'm alive
B) I'm an incredibly slow typist, and
C) I haven't thoroughly analyzed everything yet.

Part 2 coming up.

For now:

FoS: Pyro
FoS: Peanutman
HoS: Trumpet
Vote: Sando

[hiphop]

What is all this, Muh doesn't have any connections with bmc. Look what I found.

Vote Staple

And no I am not bandwagoning with BMC because all he said was vote.

Now about the part that I said i wasnt bandwagoning with BMC about staples vote was because in the beginning of the game people were suspicious of me because I went with charter's plan to No lynch. So i said just to be on the safe side I said that I wasnt bandwagoning with BMC. Even if I didnt say that I guess I still would have had FOS's on me.

So charter you seem to be pushing ALOT for BMC lynch. Seems pretty scummy to me.

Why are you pushing so much for a BMC lynch?

Now for bmc-

At this point, the two people I'd put my vote on are muh or Pom.

Interesting how he never actually voted muh. Classic scum move, to put scum second in line.

However this quote here is why I voted for bmc in the first place

BTW, crypto, muh has a very valid point.

Not only do they have connections, but muh is scummy too.

For all those who did an iso of bmc, did you notice he did not mention muh's name until the end of day one. Tell me, that you didn't have your mind made up about who had the biggest connections, before you got to this point. Let's finish the job and lynch muh. Muh is scummy, muh has connections, muh needs to be lynched.

[Pyromaniac]

Stuff from my reread

• Staple's interactions with bigmc look like scum trying to knock off unhelpful scum.
  
• In bigmc's other scum game he was the scummiest scum so I couldn't tell if he usually buddies like with muh or busses.
  
• One of muh and the inquisition is scum.
  
• Cop is definitely not sane. Perhaps insane, perhaps random.

[Pyromaniac]

bullshit

[Pyromaniac]

Also sando kindof looks like a chainsaw defense for bigmc.

[crypto]

bullshit