Newbie 871 - Game Over Town Win

[Ether]

I want Boberz to elaborate on why he's voting Ksen as opposed to DarthRandal/Herd/Annachie. Do not use the word "mistake" or any synonym of it.

*Crosses fingers*

I got some reading to do,

Unvote

I realised I should have probably done that before going AWOL

Sooooooooooooooooo...

[boberz]

Can I do that tommorow, I have had two days that were practically all nighters because of a couple of submissions I had. I have the answer which is basically i think none of them contribute much to scumhunting (i will elabortate on the extents) but ksen chats crap creating white noise, he has also has been advised more than the others on trying to improve. His mad vote on me may be a factor, but i have to read back because if i remember correctly you and patrick thought that was more scummy than me. I wil give a better answer tomorow (ie ill check my facts and chronology)

[Annachie]

Hopfully I am thinking better, because I know I wasn't.
Basically I only trust threethings I said before I did a runner. That Darth is posting like he did last game, though more confrontational, and that I don't like random votes, which is the reason for the voe on Herd. Not a good one I admit. And that I missed the small text. I did rant a lot more about that but deleted it before posting. It was what convinced me to walk away for a few days and not try to do this with my

wife

the way she was. (Yes, me male whoever it was that called me a she.)

I like the question to the experienced trio, who of the 3 do you think is the most scummy. I'm not sure I like the answers though. Odds say that there's a 58% chance that at least 1 out of any 3 players is scum. Also the comment that one of you has only ever played scum as a replacement. You're due


There's a couple of questions outstanding to me, I think, but I've forgotten them. One concerned the vote on Herd (see above) and one was on role hunting(?). When I said "Anything (Scum, town...)" I meant anything. Its that simple.

I'm tunnelling slightly on Incog/Ether/Patrick. But I want to be sure of them. I expect that they will be leading the discussions to a great degree, and they seem to be. So pinning them down is important to me.

Yarmond is a lost cause of course, so we wait for his replacement.
Darth worries me, and I believe I've said that in previous games for the same reason. Constantly (it seems) floating on the edge of being prodded.

The rest, later

It's 01:30 sheesh

[Patrick]

Can I do that tommorow, I have had two days that were practically all nighters because of a couple of submissions I had. I have the answer which is basically i think none of them contribute much to scumhunting (i will elabortate on the extents) but ksen chats crap creating white noise, he has also has been advised more than the others on trying to improve. His mad vote on me may be a factor, but i have to read back because if i remember correctly you and patrick thought that was more scummy than me. I wil give a better answer tomorow (ie ill check my facts and chronology)

In fact, I don't think his vote on you was scummy. I said that I can't think what a scum motivation for it would be since scum tend to prefer to attack easy targets rather than people who are being widely called town. I'm not at all convinced ksen is town, so I don't mind your pressure on him, but I think herd is more likely to be scum, and others are iffy and owe us more content (Darth, Annachie).

I like the question to the experienced trio, who of the 3 do you think is the most scummy. I'm not sure I like the answers though. Odds say that there's a 58% chance that at least 1 out of any 3 players is scum. Also the comment that one of you has only ever played scum as a replacement. You're due Twisted Evil

What did you dislike about the answers? I don't particularly like the rest of this since the 58% is true of any three players (and only at the start when we have no info) while the other bit is just a gamblers fallacy (though I'm guessing not seriously). Was there some reason to put that in?

Why do you think herd's random vote was more likely to be done by scum?

[boberz]

Im sorry for the misrepresentation Patrick, as I said i will check the facts tommorow, I would have corrected the mistake myself, apologies I wonder who it was that thought it was scummy, a job for tommorow.

[starkmoon]

DarthRandal has requested replacement.

[Incognito]

I'm back. This game is going places.

Therefore does that mean you just object to the one or two sentences I used to question you in which case did you exagerate the two pages comment.

I just took issue with the following posts:

Post #169

- Reason: because I was curious as to why you made that statement in the first place if you decided to keep that vote there on the next page anyway. I think you satisfactorily responded to this, so I no longer have too much of an issue with it.

Post #173

- Reason: for "that question" that you asked us. It originally looked to me like you were asking us to manufacture a case on the SE/IC we had less of a town read on.

Post #176

- Reason: for the reiteration of not wanting to lose us from our sights. It began to look like overkill to me.

Admittedly, I also voted you to see how you would react to a vote AND to not allow you to slip under my radar as much; with the majority of us 'checking' you off as Town, it becomes very easy for us to become less critical of your actions and, if you're scum, you could take advantage of that and pretty much say practically anything you want without any major repercussions if no one acts as a check against you. The above posts stuck out to me in stark contrast to your other posts, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't incorrectly reading you and allowing you to skate by unscathed.

I am from a place called Hockley, which is just outside Southend-onSea, that is in essex (South East of England). Not far from London. Where did you think my accent was

I wasn't sure actually. I just thought you typed certain things differently from how I would type them, so I figured you might not be from America. Learning where you're from also helps me develop a better read on you too.

---

I, too, would like to know why Annachie didn't like the answers provided to boberz's question and why he liked the question in the first place.

I'm tunnelling slightly on Incog/Ether/Patrick. But I want to be sure of them. I expect that they will be leading the discussions to a great degree, and they seem to be. So pinning them down is important to me.

Question: How do you plan on pinning us down, exactly? I don't really seem to recall you asking us any questions about our posts/actions.

Hm.

unvote, vote: DarthRandal

's replacement

[Incognito]

Oh, and the meta-gaming stuff that boberz did looks legit to me, so I'm leaning back towards believing he's likely town. So there.

[ksen]

@Annachie

: I hope things are settling down for you at home. Ok, down to business. Have you had a chance to remember the questions you wanted to ask? I'm interested in seeing what they are.

You also don't have a vote on anyone as of Starkmoon's last count. Who are you leaning to cast your vote on?

@Everyone else

: Is there anything that can or should be read into Darth seeking a replacement?

[Annachie]

With only two scum and the way you three people seem to read each other better than us 'strangers', I'm really curious to see which way you fall on each others scummyness, hence the eye.

I liked the question because I asked it a while ago.

Ether ducked it
Incog was vague (Though he later gave an answer on Ether.)
Patrick answered

Boberz asked damn near the same question.
Patrick answered straight up.
Ether:

Do I really have to read back and give a researched answer? They're both town.

Incog ducked with a response that seemed to be a turn-about type thing.

Incog hasn't really answered either time and Ether ducked and then stated a certainty. That's what worried me.

Ether, why are you certain. If they are indeed town, then only 4 people can state it with certainty. Themselves and the scum.

Incog, why are you (aparently) twisting your way out of this?

Incog, why vote for Darth after he has asked to be replaced?

Patrick, Ether, Incog: With 3 votes sitting on Darth what chance would you (normally) expect that at least one of them was placed by one of the scum?

Herd, Boberz, Ksen. Same question?

I'm curious if there's a difference between what the experienced players think, and what us newbies think.

I'd say a good to better than good chance for both. (Scum on the vote and there being a difference)

I don't know where to place my vote, yet. But it wont be Darth, or yarmoud(sp?). At least not until the replacements have a chance to speak for themselves.

[Annachie]

@Ksen
Well, the misses is stable, mentally speaking though she had a ripper on an anxiety attack. Of course tonight we have 3 extra's, one of whom is 6 and autistic. Nearly got into a fight at a wedding. Had more people visit the house than I can ever remember in one day, though all that has helped the kids settle better than normal somehow.
Yeah settled lol.

The questions were mostly asked of me and while I didn't answer them directly, I think I have covered them.

re Darth's replacement. I don't think so. His absentia does resemble our previous game quite a lot. I've felt that Starkmoon should have prodded him several times in that game and would have if she wasn't distracted by the whole moving house thing.

[Incognito]

Incog, why are you (aparently) twisting your way out of this?

I'm not. I just don't see any point in answering the question. This is about as solid an answer as I'm going to give on this matter at this time:

Either way, I really don't want to answer the question. I'll be sure to let it be known if I get a scum read off of

anyone

(not just the SEs) -- I don't think you'll realistically have to worry about not being able to read my opinion should I die off; I'm usually quite vocal.

That in and of itself should answer the question, actually, if you think about it.

Incog, why vote for Darth after he has asked to be replaced?

Because I had a neutral to mildly scummy read of him before he left, he left a bunch of questions outstanding, he mentioned that he would become

less

busy given a reasonable amount of time, and instead he's replaced. It's possible that his situation changed and maybe he became more busy, but I think that player spot (the replacement) deserves a fair bit of pressure upon arrival, anyway.

For what it's worth, if his replacement request has nothing to do with his level of busy-ness, I somewhat think that he would be more likely to replace out of a situation like this as scum as opposed to town.

Patrick, Ether, Incog: With 3 votes sitting on Darth what chance would you (normally) expect that at least one of them was placed by one of the scum?

That would depend on Darth's alignment. Since I'm liking Ether as town, liking ksen as town, and loving myself as town, this seems like a good wagon to me right now.

@Everyone else

: Is there anything that can or should be read into Darth seeking a replacement?

As I mentioned above, I don't think it can completely be looked into

too

much considering the fact that he might just have become more busy. But also as mentioned above, I think if his replacement request had nothing to do with being busy, I think he would be more likely to leave as scum as opposed to town.

[Incognito]

Also, Annachie, there was another L-2 wagon earlier on ksen. Why is the one on Darth the one that you're being the most inquisitive about?

[Patrick]

Mod

: Did Darth give a reason for wanting to be replaced? Not sure I'll read much into it but we might as well check. Also, please prod herd.

I'm feeling a bit wishy washy about my suspects, maybe because most of what's been happening recently feels town-town to me while scummier people aren't posting. Herd still seems very under the radar and some of what he's posted feels awkward. I want him on record about what's happened recently. Darth hasn't impressed me but I still lean more towards "need more content" than "this guy's scum".

Patrick, Ether, Incog: With 3 votes sitting on Darth what chance would you (normally) expect that at least one of them was placed by one of the scum?

Well, "normally" would simply mean the statistical chance (which I'm too lazy to work out atm). In this case I see Ether and Incognito as town and ksen as possibly scum. If ksen is scum I think DarthRandall becomes less likely, because of ksen's choice of vote in post 164. Since he laid out suspicions on herd and Annachie as well as I think he'd have been more likely to go with one of those if he was scum partnered with Darth. I don't have a problem with the wagon, though if I had to choose someone to kill now it would be herd.

I'd say a good to better than good chance for both. (Scum on the vote and there being a difference)

Who do you think is scum on the wagon? Also:

Why do you think herd's random vote was more likely to be done by scum?

As far as I can tell this was never explained.

For the record, I don't have a problem with Incognito not answering boberz's question. I don't think it needs to be pressed.

[boberz]

last point: Neither do I btw Patrick, I made that clear in a post to ether on the same subject. This is the second or third time I raise a concern, it gets questioned answered debated, I let it go and then someone else has jumped on it. That will be in the post I plan to make after I have done the laundrette.

[starkmoon]

RayFrost replaces DarthRandal

[Incognito]

Mod, what about Yarmond?

[boberz]

I have just sort of finished reading a game with rayforst newbie 837, brilliant game which includes an exaple of a no-lynch situation ( I know that is off topic now)

[Annachie]

Also, Annachie, there was another L-2 wagon earlier on ksen. Why is the one on Darth the one that you're being the most inquisitive about?

Herd perhaps? Which happened while I was VLA

herd456 - 3 - Incognito, Annachie, Patrick - (L-2)

Lets extend the question to that one as well.

[Annachie]

Why do you think herd's random vote was more likely to be done by scum?

As far as I can tell this was never explained.

I don't think it was more likely to have been done by scum, I just don't like them and I think that thet benifit scum. Well, maybe not in the first page.

Simply put a random vote by a scum generally isn't random because they already know who the scum are, and a random vote by a town sets the precent to allow scum to get away with it.


'Ello RayFrost. Welcome to the game.

[boberz]

I want Boberz to elaborate on why he's voting Ksen as opposed to DarthRandal/Herd/Annachie. Do not use the word "mistake" or any synonym of it.

So here goes;

Annachie's last few posts have begun to annoy me actually, i am going to have a massive read of him on tuesday. I feel he dismissed the role hunting too easily, I was not happy with that response. However before his trip away he had not touvhed my scumdar (not highly honed) in fact i look back and see that he opened discussions in a way i like. I actually like his pressure on herd for the random vote but think it could have ended a bit earlier.

Darth, the best of the four. He criticised me when most were calling me town. when he did post he provided a bit more substance, but not much.

Herd on top of the criticism he has from others, i dont like how he jumped on attacking me about the question aftre you three (or at least ether and incog) had already slammed it from me. But he hasnt created as much white noise, he is contentless but he posts his reads (usually copies of toher peoples reads) so we can hold him up on them later.

Ksen white noise white noise, white noise, which makes people lose any important bits, which makes him very scummy in my eytes. This is worse than being contentless, because he is contentless but tries to look like he has content meanwhile conversing with us about other things which is possibly distracting. When asked by different people about who was suspicious I think he has mentioned everyone at some point, he has certainly not said much he can be 100% pinned down on. Even herd did that.

As I mentioned ksen has had a lot of people telling him from the off to improve. All the others have just been told to post more, this has become a homogenous piece of advice that is not the same as the specific stuff given to ksen.

---

Patrick Post 149 I must have misunderstood what you meant I thought that meant you thought the vote on me by ksen was scummy, you disagree fair enough. Same I presume stands for ether in post 145 (explained to me in 147)

That post looked to me like someone scared retaliating, noticing they are doing it and saying they shouldnt but doing it anyway. I read it neutral, i remove that from my argument, it wasnt really there anyway.

---

Now to some other questions that have been made.

Anything to be read into darths replacement? i have at least one thing i dont want to share. But overall it just means he is busy.

Was scum on the wagon, maybe definately on atleast one of three major wagons.

---

Hi Rayfrosy.

[RayFrost]

Mwahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!

*arises from the cold earth, chill winds billowing around him* COWER YE FILTH, FOR I HAVE ARISEN!

Anyway~

I wanted to replace in cuz incog/ether/patrick are in it and starkmoon is teh mod.

What's awesome is that I still need to read like... 5-7 pages right now.

I'll get ideas up after I've caught up (don't expect them soon, I'm not fast at reading when I can't focus purely on it).

[ksen]

Anything to be read into darths replacement? i have at least one thing i dont want to share.

Why would you want to withhold information from town? That seems a scummy move to me but then actually saying you are doing it lowers its scumminess a bit.

[Patrick]

That's not the first case of someone doing that. To take a recent example, did it bother you when Incognito and Ether both preferred not to answer boberz's question?

Hi Ray. Looking forward to hearing what you have to say.

[ksen]

That's not the first case of someone doing that. To take a recent example, did it bother you when Incognito and Ether both preferred not to answer boberz's question?

Some, but I don't read that in the same class as saying you have information but aren't willing to share it now with town.

Town lives and dies based on the amount of information it gets, correct?

But like I said the scumminess of the move is mitigated some by boberz actually coming out and saying what he's doing.