Newbie 871 - Game Over Town Win

[Incognito]

@Tyrope:

A few questions for you.

1)

Did your read of RayFrost include any of DarthRandall's posts? I realize Darth didn't post much either, but it seems like you're basing your read completely off of RayFrost's content when he's only checked in as the replacement so far.

2)

Also, in reply to your comment about me, I don't think I've mentioned anywhere that I've found Patrick to be town-ish -- of the two SEs, I think I only said that about Ether so far. Also, I don't find ksen neutral-ish either; instead, I'm leaning more town on him if anything.

3)

What's your experience playing Mafia so far? Citing online or face-to-face experience is fine for me.

Not conciously Incog.
That particular one yes, but I'm comming to the conclusion that a replacement should have a chance to stand or fall on their own, at least for a few pages, and your vote seems to be too much pressure to allow that.

I think you and me just have a difference in opinion then.
I've replaced into games 10 times; 3 of those times as scum and 7 of those times as town. Of the scum games I replaced into only 1 of them I found myself entering in under a high pressure situation left behind by the person I replaced. I felt extremely pressured and ended up being lynched because I simply couldn't recover.
Now, of the 7 town games I replaced into, 4 of them I found myself replacing into high pressure situations and in each one I found myself actually doing even

better

than I did in the other 3 where I didn't have as much pressure. I didn't get lynched in any of them, either.

Truth is, I don't think a replacement should get some slack or be allowed to arrive in with a clean slate -- I think the replacement's actions along with the actions that his or her predecessor did before leaving need to be factored into the overall picture of that player. That's what I plan on doing with Ray.

For the record, I'm really not a fan of his procrastinating here when he's at L-2 with the deadline about a week and a half away.

[Incognito]

Mod:

Sorry to bug you again, but we need a prod on herd456. He hasn't posted since Wednesday.

[Patrick]

Mod

: Did you prod herd? Maybe Ether could do with one as well.

And welcome to the game Tyrope. With regards to herd, I agree that he's been too quiet though I don't really dig your other reason for attacking him. Do you feel expressing high level of certainty is scummy generally or was it something about this case? Is there some kind of ordering or chronology to your notepad section? One or two things are wrong there, for example Incognito's read on ksen seems more town than neutral, Ether's comment on one of me and Incognito being scum was a joke.

ofc this is not like my solid theory, but most of the time (even with "moles" in the group) majority is mostly right, maybe I miss-wrote it though, I'm getting the same vibes too.

Generally this is a risky assumption. Most lynches require a majority and mislynches occur often, which shows that the majority isn't mostly right. One thing any protown player has to do is strike a balance between listening to others and going with their own reads. Too much either way is bad.

Annachie: how do you feel that Incognito's vote on Darth/Ray was too much pressure for him to stand or fall on his own? He can still give his thoughts regardless.

And now I find myself Sarnath'd on some points. Though I don't really feel that Ray has been that slow yet.

[Tyrope]

i'd like to say srry in advance, but to make sure i respond to all questions i have quite a few quote's here... srry.

1)

Did your read of RayFrost include any of DarthRandall's posts?

I have read all posts, but i have to agree i didn't put Darth's one into consideration, huge mistake on my part, ignore my current read on Ray. (not that there is one) and i shall rethink of it tomorrow morning.

2)

Also, in reply to your comment about me, I don't think I've mentioned anywhere that I've found Patrick to be town-ish -- of the two SEs, I think I only said that about Ether so far. Also, I don't find ksen neutral-ish either; instead, I'm leaning more town on him if anything.

All my notes are correct, they may be from distant past though, i put them in chronologicly per person (and the persons on alphabet).

3)

What's your experience playing Mafia so far?.

aside from This here

(Clicky)

nothing.

Do you feel expressing high level of certainty is scummy generally or was it something about this case?

there is smth about this case, this particular wording.

Is there some kind of ordering or chronology to your notepad section?

said before in this post

Generally this is a risky assumption. Most lynches require a majority and mislynches occur often, which shows that the majority isn't mostly right. One thing any protown player has to do is strike a balance between listening to others and going with their own reads. Too much either way is bad.

I agree, however, untill now i haven't had a chance to balance it, as i didn't really play with the game yet, seeing as how we're just half-way D1, i'm sure i can get a better read on your guys.

just to be sure my new-ness doesn't kill any1:

unvote

[Annachie]

iirc, Ether is about 3hours off from the prod I believe.

Patrick, I suppose it's more my sense of being fair to people (replacements) especially as they may have taken over from a dill. Incog's opinion makes me wonder if I should though.

Sarnath'd?

Tyrope: You should consider making a record of the post number in your notes. Easier to track back to relevent points.

[Annachie]

Tyrope.

there is smth about this case, this particular wording.

smth?

[Incognito]

Tyrope, you're right. I had forgotten that I counted the whole "game opening quickly instead of using the full 72 hours" thing as a point in Patrick's favor. Sorry about that.

Looking at that linked game, it looks like it just started, so I'm guessing you're a fairly green newbie. If so, I hope you enjoy this game and that one too. Also, I agree with Patrick about the risky assumption.

@Patrick: It's not that I felt he was being slow; it's just that he mentioned that he'll be procrastinating on this game.

[Tyrope]

@Anna: smth = something. i thought since you guys use so many abbrevations simple chat ones were also known, i shall try not to use them if it's not appreciated.

@Incog: no problem, we're all human and make mistakes. i am indeed as green as they come, and hope to enjoy both games to the fullest (although i fear i'll be lynched over there, made a stupid move.)

[Ether]

I am synchronized. You may have noticed that. It is 5:50 am EST, I have a class at 10, and

after

distracting myself up through about an hour ago, giving up and getting into bed, I then promptly felt a strong compulsion to catch up.

I don't see how I could possibly regret this four hours from now! Let's roll.

Incognito and Patrick are town because they don't feel like they could be scum. That's it. For all the paranoia Annachie's pushing, it doesn't feel like he's actually taking it upon himself to figure out our alignments: just harass us the rest of us for our reads and get disappointed when he doesn't get the answer he wants. I keep wavering over whether this is actually a scumtell, but any details about my thought process will have to wait for an hour when I can think straight.

Darth, the best of the four. He criticised me when most were calling me town. when he did post he provided a bit more substance, but not much.

Ksen white noise white noise, white noise, which makes people lose any important bits, which makes him very scummy in my eytes. This is worse than being contentless, because he is contentless but tries to look like he has content meanwhile conversing with us about other things which is possibly distracting.

Without checking back, I don't think Ksen's later posts were white noise (and I do think pretty much everything of Randal's was). Why do you see Randal's criticism of you as townish?

Tyrope's posts seem all right to me. (Don't give commentary on ongoing games, though.)

Hi, RayFrost! I spent Monday reading about how hacking Pokémon games like I want to learn how to do is related to the computer class I am failing. With that in mind, I hope with all my heart and soul that you enjoyed the act of filling out that form. Also, I think you're scum.

[boberz]

Quick reply to your direct questions ether, i may do a proper post later.

I think ksen's posts were white noise, we may be in disagreement I have read them a few times now and i am satisfied with his lack of sybstance; as you say there are a few player without substance.

I see Darth's criticism of me as townish, because no one was doing it and in the early game (as it was) mafia particuarly newish mafia will want to try and fit in a bit more. Having said that he covered himself by saying i was townish anyway, Ill think about him a bit more.

[Ether]

Meh. I don't see that as him thinking independently; I just see it as him trying to keep his options open and give a bit of lip service. It wasn't even a good point; it was from Page 1. (Though to be fair, you were still voting Incognito at the time.)

On a related note, I think it's more likely Randal would have OMGUSed me (or at least lashed out in some way) as town. It makes his self-righteous remark before my vote feel more like posturing.

[Incognito]

Hey, Ether. Glad to see you back. I was worried about you for awhile there...

@Annachie: I didn't look tooooo deeply into your past game but from what I saw, you seemed a bit looser with your vote than you have been here. Is there any reason why that may be the case?

To expand on my thoughts related to this:

@Patrick: It's not that I felt he was being slow; it's just that he mentioned that he'll be procrastinating on this game.

I guess my main issue is I know for a fact that RayFrost would be extremely excited about jumping straight into a game with all three of us (me, Patrick, and Ether) since we're three players he's been following along with since he joined the site. To actually procrastinate on an opportunity like this seems more like something a RayFrost-scum might do as opposed to a RayFrost-town, in my opinion.

I felt the same way about DarthRandal; he mentioned that he was excited about the opportunity to play with us but then he requested replacement. Unless he was just really busy, it points to the same line of thinking.

[starkmoon]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 5

Annachie

- 1 - herd456 - (L-4)

boberz

- 1 - Incognito - (L-4)

herd456

- 1 - Patrick - (L-4)

ksen

- 1 - boberz - (L-4)

Players not voting: Annachie, Ether, ksen, RayFrost, Tyrope

Will prod herd.

[boberz]

I thought I had a foothold in this game when the herd ksen wagons were going on I was happy I had a read and stuff. In the last three pages I have begun to struggle, I feel we almost lost an oppurtunity there. I read through the second half of this game again and I think it is possible a scum has successfully removed pressure from one or both of them. I am going to explore that by looking closely at voting patterns and statemtn patterns within the voting posts, people are more vulnerable when they are posting i think.

[Ether]

I know that feeling. The first part, not the lost opportunity part. (But I'm back to normal.)

one or both of them.

Why both?

Mod:

I'm still voting RayFrost. So are Incognito and ksen. (If you removed our votes in light of his replacement, which you shouldn't have, then

vote: RayFrost

again.)

[boberz]

Taking it off both of them would make a partnership much less obvious, does that make sense. It would be risky for someone to just take pressure off one person for fear someone would notice. Btw this does not necessarily mean that that person is definately mafia but i think a scum side idea.

[RayFrost]

Incog/ether/patrick:

I'm Procrastinating initial because of the WoTs that impede my ability to read after my mind has been half cooked by my college work.

It's why I haven't replaced into any games recently.

I'll read from pages 5-11, and you guys can point out anything important in 1-5, mmmkay?

It'll expedite this process.

Also, my eagerness doesn't change how I operate in this case. Remember, I'm the guy that was in ~14 games when I first joined MS, got burnt out, and replaced out of two and then figured out he couldn't replace into anything over 5 pages in.

And yet I've replaced into a 10 page game just cuz it has the three of you.

This is a sign of my [over]eagerness.

[Ether]

I don't remember walls of text, though I suppose having been around at the time might bias me. You should really start from the beginning: this game didn't really have much of a random phase.

Especially since, y'know, I'm voting you. You should absolutely be jumping through hoops for me right now.

Taking it off both of them would make a partnership much less obvious, does that make sense. It would be risky for someone to just take pressure off one person for fear someone would notice. Btw this does not necessarily mean that that person is definately mafia but i think a scum side idea.

I'm not following your trail of logic at all. If Ksen and/or Herd is town, how would it be a scummy to deflect the wagon onto someone else who might not be town? Taking pressure off of someone isn't scummy in the first place--in fact, Incognito's defense of Ksen was outright townish--so it isn't something "someone would notice."

[RayFrost]

Ether, you know I don't jump through hoops.

Still, I'll read through, get tired at about page 4, and then blame you, kay?

[Ether]

I know nothing of the sort. And I say you do.

For what it's worth, I'll be on-hand to provide witty and profound encouragement and try to sustain your will to live.

[RayFrost]

Cool.

Get me a box of chocolate chip cookies and I might live through this.

Anyway, when I

do

manage to finish, I'll have a Patented LoS. Yes, my LoSes are patented for the way they make me seem scummy 85% of the time I do them

[Ether]

I don't have chocolate chip cookies. I do have tortilla chips, though. And cheese. If you weren't here, I'd probably be out cooking a real dinner right now, but I recognize my duty to this game and its players.

[Ether]

(And for once, I'm not saying that in a way that's meant to imply that you don't. I'm just poking fun at my own priorities here.)

[RayFrost]

Thanks <3

[Patrick]

Patrick, I suppose it's more my sense of being fair to people (replacements) especially as they may have taken over from a dill. Incog's opinion makes me wonder if I should though.

Sarnath'd?

Well, it's fair to allow a replacement a courtesy period to get caught up with the game, almost regardless of your read on their predecessor, but that doesn't mean their actions are wiped clean. In this case I don't think a third vote was excessive pressure since it's more likely to cause him trouble as scum than as town, and it doesn't put him in danger of being lynched. Your thoughts on this strike me as reasonably genuine though.

Being Sarnath'd means that someone gets in before you with some of your thoughts, usually very close in time to when you're writing them up.

Not much of a read on Tyrope yet. His reads struck me as fairly neutral heavy, but not in a scummy way.

In the last three pages I have begun to struggle, I feel we almost lost an oppurtunity there. I read through the second half of this game again and I think it is possible a scum has successfully removed pressure from one or both of them. I am going to explore that by looking closely at voting patterns and statemtn patterns within the voting posts, people are more vulnerable when they are posting i think.

Can't say I've felt this way, maybe because Ether and Incognito feel like the two who've done this most and I'm reading them both as town. Though I do feel just a little lonely on herd. It sort of feels like he's slipped out of the limelight by virtue of not having been posting. I haven't seen him online so I don't know whether or not he's lurking. Still awaiting starkmoon's cooperation here.

I look forward to Ray's post. I didn't know he'd stalked me as well