Open 186; Jungle Republic (Game Over)

[Lowell]

vote bigmac

[Lowell]

Anyone unvoting saber after his behavior is crazy.

He's asking for it, and deserves it. More to the point, no one has explained to me why him threatening to self-hammer makes him town.

unvote, vote saber

[Lowell]

unvote saber, vote bigmc

115 and 117 are good. I have the same vague dissatisfaction from 114 that saber does.

[Lowell]

No one cares what saber does or does not do in other games. Vote him or don't.

[Lowell]

I'm turned around on saber. For whatever reason I'm convinced he's town.

[Lowell]

I meant I've never played this setup before and I was wondering what to expect. The closest I've played is 6:3:3 nightless and that was one big clusterfuck, imo. Weren't you also in that game Lowell?

I was there. All I remember about that game is that I was great in it.

[Lowell]

FOS hewitt

. Aren't

you

voting saber? If so, isn't 239 a strange thing to say?

[Lowell]

dank and saber both look town to me, despite their lover's spats.

[Lowell]

I think saber's recent behavior deserves a lynch.

I'll give dan a chance to chime in, however.

[Lowell]

@ckd- saber has been an absolute disaster since the few pages when he was actually helpful. I'll hear out the replacement, but in general I'm not a huge fan of abandoning good wagons just to be nice to replacement.

[Lowell]

@paradox- I'm mostly just annoyed that when saber had a chance to do something useful, he basically absconded. A town player would be more likely to at least do something useful, even if he knew he was going out.

I'm not overwhelmed by Flave's entrance. In an early post he claimed to be skimming, his reread is scatterbrained, and his vote is now on the second vote leader behind himself.

[Lowell]

344 is more or less exactly my sentiments towards bigmc. He seems to bring up the idea of scummy things in others, but doesn't back them up until someone pipes up to support him.

[Lowell]

It seems like your post just refers to another post. Can you be more specific?

[Lowell]

@hewitt- I feel like I addressed this already. Saber at first struck me as erratic and anti-town, particuarly with his plan to self-hammer. As he fought his way out of that he seemed like he could be useful, then he absconded again at the last moment before actually contributing anything I thought he was going to contribute.

[Lowell]

Love post 368. Glad someone did the research I was too lazy to do, and that it confirms bigmc's unfrozen caveman lawyer is a bit of an act.

In other news, Flave is buddying up to me like no one's business. In 362 he notes offhand how I explained myself adequately in response to something or another, then later corrects himself in 366 and claims not to want to speak for me. Um, thanks? I'll take it as flattery for now that he wants me to be happy (also since we need to lynch bigmc today), but his seeking to appease his prior enemies (or his prior persona's-enemies) is a little obvious.

[Lowell]

vote: Lowell

, to keep up pressure from D1. You've floated along without answering any of the criticisms against you, or really explaining much of what you're doing; that certainly warrants a vote.

Reread coming a bit later.

Whatever. I was on the bigmc wagon way before it was cool. I own this game. Without me this town is nowhere.

[Lowell]

1) @lynx- When I made that post I forgot this game has two factions because there was only one NK. Either way, getting rid of werewolves should be the first goal since they have NKs, and you've said you don't believe I'm one. Which makes me think you're voting based on...

2) @lynx- You keep referencing these "questions" you've asked. I read your posts in iso, and other than references to my position on saber (which I explained as best I could) I don't see what your problem is. Your exasperation is unwarranted.

3) @all- This post is a bit of deja vu for me, but.... Anyone want to try a SEER

hypoclaim

? We all say who we investigated (fake or real), so if the seer gets NKed we at least get a little info. My feeling is this would help us more than the werewolves and could be of benefit later on (ESP since the person "cleared" could as easily end up being mafia and killed off by werewolves anyway)

[Lowell]

It's a marginal advantage, I admit. But if the seer is NKed why not at least get an innocent (non-werewolf) while we can. With this many people left, maybe one person accidently reveals themselves as non-seer by "clearing" the werewolf? Not a big deal.

[Lowell]

unvote, vote dank

I like the flave case as well. I'll add to it that the dank/lynx pairing in and of itself is suspicious. With relative experience between them it's unlikely to mean they're both on the same team (mafia), but it certainly makes me think one is trying to subtley buddy with the other. Dank is the better choice for scum since lynx has in general been the more active player, and pairing one's vote with him wouldn't be a bad idea if you're scum trying to avoid him looking in your direction.

@jazz- you're still wrong about this. Your argument against hypoclaim now is that "not werewolf" isn't the same as innocent? Yeah, no kidding. So what? Most, nearly all, players will be "cleared" in this process. If one person accidentally "clears" the last werewolf in this process, it's not a huge deal. You drastically overestimate the danger of revealing the seer. It won't affect the game mechanics of scumhunting at all. Clearly no one wants to do it so this is largely moot, but I at least want to defend my mafia theory rep.

[Lowell]

@dank- I wanted them both gone. I pointed out why saber pissed me off and why bigmc was a consummate sycophant. Look back and I was clearly on the bigmc wagon as much as anyone else. And there's no way a two-person team would bus on D1.

This is one of those see-what-you-want-to-see situations. Had saber been lynched and he turned up werewolf, dank would proabably be saying "Oh look, lowell said he wanted saber but kept his vote on bigmc. Derailment!"

I don't like that dank's case on me emerges just as the case against him is heating up. I see bits of OMGUS and a lot more kissing up to those he's tryign to win favor with.

[Lowell]

Interesting point. Let me go back and see if that holds water.

unvote

[Lowell]

Still not sure about how I feel about dank. He's explained some of the case on him, but the blatent buddying with lynx still bothers me.

In other news, I read back the pages leading up to a bigmc lynch. Before basically giving up completely, the crux of his attacks were on saber. Going on the logic that a two-person scumteam wouldn't bus D1, I'd say flave (saber) isn't the other werewolf.

[Lowell]

@lynx- it was pointed out awhile back how you two tended to be on the same wagons. That's what I'm referring to.

[Lowell]

Still here, been busy a bit lately.

@lynx- Seems like there might be good reasons to vote para, but that is not it. In my mind, a lackluster late vote on a werewolf is still better than no vote at all. I really don't see bussing as that likely a D1 option for a scum team of two players. That said, I still think it's possible dank wass bussing and specifically using the relative safety of having been on the wagon to cruise through the day. At least, OF THE PLAYERS ON THE BIGMC wagon, he's the one that most screams opportunist.

[Lowell]

@fitz&lynx- thanks for the sarcasm. I believe I explained. The last wolf was probably not on the wagon, but if s/he

was

, I think dank is by far the most likely candidate. dank's overall scumminess makes him likely scum, but not necessarily the wolf.

[Lowell]

Took a long weekend. I'm back. Will catch up later tonight.

[Lowell]

unvote, vote para

I'm not sold on him necessarily being a werewolf, but it's better than a no lynch. para's advocacy of a no lynch with his last post reeks of desperation.

[Lowell]

Let's kill paradox again!

At this point I begrudgingly agree that killing a mafia is probably the better option, although not by much since the werewolf is utterly useless at killing scum. The reason dank wasn't the best lynch yesterday is the same reason that he might be the best lynch today. He was scummy as hell, but probably not a wolf due to his presence on the first wagon.

FOS dank/para

. This should be a vote but it's early for lynch-1 with so many quasi-paying-attention players.

[Lowell]

unvote, vote para

I'm not sold on him necessarily being a werewolf, but it's better than a no lynch. para's advocacy of a no lynch with his last post reeks of desperation.

Why wasn't the possibility that Paradoxombie (D1-2 version) was mafia a consideration? Because you knew he wasn't?

Vote: Lowell

because I think he is mafia.

Sorry for the doublepost, didn't see the attack on me.

I voted to hammer BECAUSE I thought para could be mafia. I wasn't sold on him being the WOLF.

[Lowell]

Lowell, your hammer post seems to imply that you are shooting for a wolf. Specifically where you say "but it's better than a no lynch". Sounds like a defeated attitude kind of vote. Like you want to hit a wolf, but don't think Paradox was it.

Yes, that's exactly right.

[Lowell]

Oh sorry, thought it went without saying. Not countering.

With this claim the idea of wolf-hunting today seems much more palatable again. I realize this would lead to a 4:3 town/mafia situation but with a confirmed innocent the odds would be a bit better than they look, and probably better than a 3:2:1 endgame with no confirmed innocents (if wolf lives and fitz dies). Obviously take what we can get, but I'll be voting to lynch someone I think is potential wolf OR potential mafia.

[Lowell]

@fitz- some of us never have to worry about looking too townie.

I'm going to look back through the posts near the lynches on D1&2. I'd like particularly to hear from the new players before we get too far. My main worry at this point is that if either are scum, it'll be difficult to generate the will to lynch them if needed.

[Lowell]

My top three are:

1. Lowell
2. Flave
3.RV

Lowell's flopping of stances on Saber largely leads me to believe that there is indeed a connection between the two.

Scott had a strong point of leaving Saber be when everyone was going after him. But I'm not as sure about RV as the other two.

This post makes you look like you put no thought into this idea at all. So, basically, this is exactly what I thought might happen. Lynx is trying to plant the seed to vote for me (knowing that others have already shown willingness to do so throughout this game) while giving just enough vague reasons for it. My reaction to saber? On D1? Really? This post is either incredibly lazy or incredibly scummy. At this point with majority scum left I'm inclined to believe the latter.

This, to me, is an attempt to soften the ground for anyone tempted to vote for Lowell, without having to get in the fray himself. Someone sees it, says "yeah, okay, if it can help reach a majority... whatever." If it doesn't happen, he'll just jump somewhere else.

[Lowell]

I still don't like the "I'll vote for either, oh also I'm lazy" justification. My problem is it's just an easy vote, basically. That's why towns lose games, because town latches onto an easy idea, or because no one takes on scummy people who posit them.

fos lynx

[Lowell]

@fitz- big mistake. Scumbuddies show up and the game is over.

vote lynx

. Flave's case is good, and besides if lynx isnt' scum we're screwed anway.

[Lowell]

Yay!

[Lowell]

I played that whole game holding my breath, every day a new potential disaster.

Next time bring kryptonite.

[Lowell]

Sorry lynx, I'm unkillable.