Open 186; Jungle Republic (Game Over)

[saberwolf]

I don't like reading not nots when I'm drunk

vote: budja

[saberwolf]

I know 2/3s of the players here.

[saberwolf]

Remember our game paradox? I warn you, I haven't changed one bit

[saberwolf]

Remember our game paradox? I warn you, I haven't changed one bit

like hewitt, except scummier....I have not seen you play, but I bet you are trying to already excuse your bad playing?..am I right?

unvote, vote saberwolf.

I like this. Town points to you from me.

Paradox and I have played one game together. In that game, I used the slayer's gambit and acted so scummy they refused to lynch me. I was town, but we ended up losing the game anyways.

I don't think Paradox was too happy with me, and I'm warning him that I still have gambit tendancies in me. I use gambits a lot. However, I don't necessarily use them, it really depends on certain elements, such as whether acting scummy clears me as town faster than acting pro-town, whether I can use it to escape NKs, or if a certain animorpherv1 challenges me to a bet that I can't sign up for every game and not flake, and in order to not flake i simply act as scummy as possible so that I get lynched day 1.

Will I gambit this game? we'll see

[saberwolf]

hmmm...

FoS: Lynx

vote dank, and then say him and most of us are too nice to die?

grow some balls, and vote for me...think of it as a lovetap

[saberwolf]

unvote, vote Saber

Play to win or GTFO. That post has "policy lynch me" written all over it.

FoS hewitt

for over-reaction

Nice try Lynx but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't mind lynching me after my horrible play back then.

well now, I have done nothing thus far to contridict my win condition

[saberwolf]

Oh goody, its saberwolf. Are you trying to tell us you only use gambits when you're town, in order to clear yourself as town?

Vote: Lynx The Antithesis

because don't call me sweet!

nah, the odd time i dont gambit, and sometimes will gambit as scum. My goal is to not have a reliable meta read if possible. I don't expect to be cleared as anything this game, especially as I announced my gambicy, which obv means I won't be gambiting this game....duh.

[saberwolf]

^_^

have you guys seen open 185?

everyone jumped on me in the RVS and I self hammered by post 18...they didn't like that...

[saberwolf]

Sorry, threats like that don't and shouldn't work.

Play to win or GTFO.

its not a threat, i'm just showing you an example of my type of play.

There'd be no point anyways...I wouldn't self hammer now...we're way past 18 posts, so no record to be made there.

[saberwolf]

Oh goody, its saberwolf. Are you trying to tell us you only use gambits when you're town, in order to clear yourself as town?

Vote: Lynx The Antithesis

because don't call me sweet!

nah, the odd time i dont gambit, and sometimes will gambit as scum. My goal is to not have a reliable meta read if possible. I don't expect to be cleared as anything this game, especially as I announced my gambicy, which obv means I won't be gambiting this game....duh.

[saberwolf]

my last two games i single handedly caught scum b2b ftw...you were one of those games budja, so you know I can play if I feel like it.

[saberwolf]

Unvote,Vote:Saberwolf

You certainly are threatening to self-hammer if you reference a game where you did it already in 18 posts after a wagon starts on you. If you actually consider doing it you're either scum or a huge liability for the town.

LOL, so you put me one vote closer to see if I'll do it? That's anti-town and scummy of you right there.

I already posted and quoted it, I'm not gonna gambit this game, so you guys are wasting your time. Due to a certain bet I made, I'd love it if you guys lynched me day 1, however I have every intention of playing this game, so it's your choice.

[saberwolf]

you can thank me for getting us out of RVS btw, as was my goal.

[saberwolf]

Unvote,Vote:Saberwolf

You certainly are threatening to self-hammer if you reference a game where you did it already in 18 posts after a wagon starts on you. If you actually consider doing it you're either scum or a huge liability for the town.

LOL, so you put me one vote closer to see if I'll do it? That's anti-town and scummy of you right there.

I already posted and quoted it, I'm not gonna gambit this game, so you guys are wasting your time. Due to a certain bet I made, I'd love it if you guys lynched me day 1, however I have every intention of playing this game, so it's your choice.

Why are you acting like you're going to be lynched already? It's only page two. My vote is not intended to support a policy lynch of any kind.

I'm almost up there in zwet status. I get quicklynched and BWed day 1 more often than there exist games.

[saberwolf]

I can't replace out, or I lose the bet.

If you guys were to lynch me, then I cannot possibly flake out of the game, fulfilling my primary condition.

My secondary condition is to win this game as town.

You guys decide which order that happens

I forget where my vote is...

anyways: [b}unvote; vote: lynx[/b] until I hear further on why I got that vote

[saberwolf]

unvote; vote: lynx

[saberwolf]

I'm drunk

[saberwolf]

Oh goody, its saberwolf. Are you trying to tell us you only use gambits when you're town, in order to clear yourself as town?

Vote: Lynx The Antithesis

because don't call me sweet!

nah, the odd time i dont gambit, and sometimes will gambit as scum. My goal is to not have a reliable meta read if possible. I don't expect to be cleared as anything this game, especially as I announced my gambicy, which obv means I won't be gambiting this game....duh.

[saberwolf]

I'm PMing Mith, and asking his permission to self hammer...

[saberwolf]

Oh goody, its saberwolf. Are you trying to tell us you only use gambits when you're town, in order to clear yourself as town?

Vote: Lynx The Antithesis

because don't call me sweet!

nah, the odd time i dont gambit, and sometimes will gambit as scum. My goal is to not have a reliable meta read if possible. I don't expect to be cleared as anything this game, especially as I announced my gambicy, which obv means I won't be gambiting this game....duh.

[saberwolf]

Can we just get him replaced?

nope


I actually haven't done anything to go against my win condition, so I've still been playing the game. Suck it up princess. I also haven't done anything wrong either...All I've done is a lot of talk and no action...see how I'm not self-hammering? You guys really are dumb...lmao

[saberwolf]

I can't replace out, or I lose the bet.

If you guys were to lynch me, then I cannot possibly flake out of the game, fulfilling my primary condition.

My secondary condition is to win this game as town.

You're also playing this game over a bet? And you're saying that the conditions of the bet (flaking, not replacing out?) outweigh your normal actions for your alignment?

Is this how you are still going to play?

I'm trying not too, but yeah. This was one of the few games I was actually considering trying in, but I really don't care if I get lynched day 1. I can then just delete the game and work on getting myself lynched/kick some ass and win in another game.

[saberwolf]

saber, lets give usefulness a try.

who do you suspect, based on their reactions so far? Everyone's put in a fair deal of posts by now, so if you're going to try in this game, could you point out anything you've noticed/that's stuck out in the last few pages?

will do. Give me a few minutes.

[saberwolf]

have you guys seen open 185?

everyone jumped on me in the RVS and I self hammered by post 18...they didn't like that...

unvote, vote saberwolf

Let's see your self-hammer.

This is one of my scum picks.

He isn't contributing anything pro-town. He actually wants to see me lynch myself. He doesn't care about alignment, he just wants to see somebody gone. Scum fit all of this criteria.

vote: MR

Lynx is also suspicious for being on my BW despite saying his vote was not a policy vote

FoS: Lynx

[saberwolf]

Lynx: If your vote wasn't a policy vote, what would it fall under then?

[saberwolf]

@Lynx,
if you read two more sentances on that post you should see why.
But... I was wrong, I just assumed CKD was right and barely looked at the vote count .
Still since he is the latest vote on Saber and since the lying thing seems plausible, I see no reason to change.
---
Of the later pushes on Saber, bigmc and ML's are the only one that look possibly opportunistic.
---
Another note. This is not Saber's "generic playstyle". From the game I played with him (and marathon), he came off as a good player. The problem I have is that he is not really invested in this game.
---
@Scott,
Lynching lurkers is ok but its a bit early for that. Threatening to lynch lurkers is better but a lurker lynch < a lynch of someone I think is scummy.

Ok, I give you my word, right now, no gambits, all effort.

[saberwolf]

@ CKD: because SW seemed like the type of player that would need pressure to determine what he's going to do. I wouldn't have put him at L-1 because it risks him being lynched too fast. L-2 was perfect because there's little risk, but a lot of pressure (considering he had 5x as many votes as anyone else). That was the intent of my vote. And tbh, I think it worked, because as I've pointed out, he's said some scummy things since then.

please point those scummy things out, don't just say they exist.

[saberwolf]

I already did.

Now for some actual scum hunting. I'm not liking sabrewolf at all. In addition to the whole self-lynching thing, I don't like his two attacks. I think Lynx's posts have been very pro-town so far (see 77) and MR was early enough in the BW to not seem scummy going for the easy target. Though I will admit I wouldn't mind the attack on MR so much if he hadn't posted since then, so it might be a nulltell.

1. So are you saying that if I act scummy an then make just one pro-town post, I become obvtown?

2. Position doesn't matter when it comes to alignment. I've seen scum be the first steadfast vote on a scum wagon. I've seen town hammer. Everyone else inbetween matters on how and why they vote. Just because MR voted in Xth place, doesn't credit them town points at all.

FoS: bigmc109

[saberwolf]

Paradox: I have never lost a game as scum (6-0). Just remember that if you lynch me and I flip town.

[saberwolf]

Paradox: I have never lost a game as scum (6-0). Just remember that if you lynch me and I flip town.

Yeah I'm not understanding your point, if there is one. So how many of those winning games were you lynched in?

None. All of my scum games I have made it to the end. I have also won 2 out of 2 games as SK.

[saberwolf]

You're saying that you stay alive till the end as scum. Do you play those games like you play this one, and be so obviously antitown that town doesn't want to go through with the lynch and ignores you?

So, you're supporting what lynx said earlier and building a case for your lynch? That's your defense, then?

not all of it, but its a small percentage of it, yes.

It isn't so much to deter you, it's more to put you down as scumhunters

[saberwolf]

How in any way does that put us down?

Do you intentionlly attempt to provoke players as both town and scum equally?

yes, almost all the time. It's actually amazing how pro-town it actually is when you see the results, even if in the very short run it does not appear to be so.

[saberwolf]

thats where you're wrong. I come off as scummy, but it engages a load of discussion and shows sides very quickly.

[saberwolf]

thats where you're wrong. I come off as scummy, but it engages a load of discussion and shows sides very quickly.

and it apparently that discussion doesn't show sides very quickly, if you're slipping by as scum 100% of the time, does it?

who says I play all scum games acting scummy?

[saberwolf]

If you were in my position now do you think you would support your lynch, saber?

absolutely. I'd lynch myself right now.

I've been anti-town, and you guys can't see any other reason to look otherwise, so by all accounts, it makes some sense to lynch me.

[saberwolf]

I actually have lots of motivation to do what I'm doing, regardless of alignment. It's such a controversial stirup in the forums, that I'm surprised none of you have caught on yet, but then again, neither did anybody else in any of the other games....that's ok though, do what you gotta do. I think my vote is on scum.

[saberwolf]

dammit, I already promised budja I'd play legit

nvm.


anyways, you want more info, talk to hewitt, he just figured it out.

Otherwise, I'm going back to scumhunting, and ignoring the next three posts that address me

[saberwolf]

Hewitt: I promise you, as soon as this bet is over, I will give you a run for your money, and will ping you as scum day one so fast you won't even get time to type /confirm

[saberwolf]

This is where I self hammer ftw

Don't worry, I won't do it.

Budja - I made a bet with animorpherv1. I had to sign up for all games that needed players. I had to play every single one and not flake. If I flaked, Ani got to make my avatar for 2 months. If I successfully play all my games, I make his avatar for two months. One of the loopholes in our deal I've been exploiting. I can't flake if I'm lynched. Luckily for me, I've got a town role in every single game I entered, making it easier to gambit. The hilarious part is I tell every single game about this bet at some point. Every single one of them end the same. You guys are gonna say "Oh, that's fine, but this game is different. He was town in all the other games, but he's def scum in this one". You will then porceed to lynch me, and I will flip town. Then you'll be like "damn, he was telling the truth, just like the last 8 games". But it's fine, because the whole goal was to either draw scum out with my scummy gambits, or die in the process, making it win-win.

[saberwolf]

unvote; vote: bigmc109

nobody seems to support a MR lynch, and mc is right up there with him, so switch time it is.

dank, you've been one of my more outspokern defenders, yet you still decide to keep your vote on me...why is that?

[saberwolf]

I would love it if one of the other games with hewitt I was a jester...just sayin

[saberwolf]

Scum: Bigmc and Lynx

It's easy to see, game over.

Make sure one of these two is lynched at some point when I'm gone.

[saberwolf]

saberwolf, please refrain from discussing ongoing games.

sorry

[saberwolf]

FoS: hewitt

, that turnaround was a bit dodgy.

saberwolf, considering everything that's going on in all our games, was my turnaround unexpected?

I have no idea what you are talking about

[saberwolf]

I was VT and scott was seer if I recall. Town won.

[saberwolf]

Just because someone comes up townie after doing something doesn't mean they didn't deserve to be lynched.


Saberworlf said earlier that he tries to avoid a meta. It looks more to me like he's trying to establish a meta, or rely on one. He's definitely not trying to mix up his meta like he said if he's acting the same in all his games and even from games before. I mean so far he's been constantly trying to manipulate our views by mentioning his behavior in the past and in other games. He tried to tell us this game would be just like the others. This behavior seems to blatantly contradict what he said.

We have one smart person in the group! Well Done!

Yeah, I don't like having a meta, but this playstyle doesn't determine my alignment, just my attitude towards the game. Constantly switching it up and creating WIFOM over it allows my meta to be smokescreened. So I hope that none of you use it to clear me as town. I simply mention it in every game so that it isn't predictable in selectivity.

[saberwolf]

CKD: I have been very lax in scumhunting as well as unhelpful during the beginning of the game, which would make me a liability and not worth keeping around if I continue this manner. This is why I would support a Saber lynch. TBH, nothing I have done is scummy, it's just been annoying and unhelpful, there's a big difference.

MC: I am not so sure you would get as much info from my lynch as you think. Best case scenario: I flip scum and you attack CKD for defending me. However, nobody else would be suspect due to the fact that it's an almost unanimous decision that I'm scummy. If I flip town, CKD would be suspect of town cred fishing, and everyone else falls in the boat of "Oh, I was wrong, but he was unhelpful, therefore I'm not at fault."

The reason I said A and B are scum was to generate discussion. Obviously there are more than two scum, but there are two werewolves, and I wouldn't put it past them to be buddies. Kill the werewolves, kill the nights. Lynx seems very focused on protecting MC, and I don't see that kind of attitude towards any of the other players, so I'm assuming Lynx is a werewolf. That would also place MC in the werewolf category. I would place MR in the mafia group, for overall lurking and not being very helpful, along with a badly placed vote with no good reasoning. I'm still Deciding on who I think is town from the rest.

[saberwolf]

You actually admit to taking advantage of a situation? I'd hate to have you in lylo, you'd vote for the first person to get a vote, just because it isn't for you.

unvote; vote: MR

[saberwolf]

The reason I said A and B are scum was to generate discussion. Obviously there are more than two scum, but there are two werewolves, and I wouldn't put it past them to be buddies. Kill the werewolves, kill the nights. Lynx seems very focused on protecting MC, and I don't see that kind of attitude towards any of the other players, so I'm assuming Lynx is a werewolf. That would also place MC in the werewolf category. I would place MR in the mafia group, for overall lurking and not being very helpful, along with a badly placed vote with no good reasoning. I'm still Deciding on who I think is town from the rest.

If this is the reasoning those not voting saber say he's contributed lately that make his lynch unwarranted, then there is no reason why saber has not been lynched yet. His input in this game has been close to useless, and he is once again hopping on a growing wagon to spread the attention away from him.

I'm having a very hard time seeing an MR lynch over Saber at this point- MR seems like a new player tripping up a bit. The above post has Saber taking advantage (oh, the irony!) of a way MR worded something, that somehow makes him lynchworthy, which i find ridiculous.

Saber- what do you think MR just admitted to that makes him worth a vote?

Do you ever consider maybe that it makes a good trap for scum, seeing who pulls for the quicklynch or hammer? Doesn't matter now though, scum will be more cautious about approaching this BW.

So if someone trips up, we excuse them, but what exactly am I doing that makes excusing not an option? Please enlighten me.

[saberwolf]

Saber- what do you think MR just admitted to that makes him worth a vote?

taking advantage of situations

I realise my vote is therefore ironic.

[saberwolf]

I find it funny that Saber labels me as "protective" of BigMC for asking them to show me their case on him. Instead, Saber fails yet again to provide such points against BigMc. Then, he goes on to make one of the more opportunistic votes in this game so far. I think Saber realized that the BigMc wagon was losing steam so he tried to find an easier candidate in MR.

Budja as well failed his view on the BigMc case. It's fairly strange that neither of them answered and instead both switched to MR. Either Budja's not reading my posts or he intentionally skipped over it.

The same does not go for Saber because in my response to his labeling me as scum I asked him to provide the case as well. He never did so and it's clear his vote was very poor. He was merely hopping on the second largest wagon that could possibly take attention away from himself.

Can we please just lynch Saber already?

*shrugs*

What can I say? I'm in a very lazy and ignorant mood for this game.

I'll get around to it...

[saberwolf]

Something or another...

Lynxie Poo

ISO 1: Lynx mentions how he loves us all too much to lynch any of us [funny, cause he wants me gone now...], and then goes for a no lynch. That's suspicious, because to me that's scum trying to avoid responsibility for his vote.

ISO 2: Comes to the assumption that I will self hammer [even though I never said I would, I was just showing a similar game where anti-town is norm] and tries to take advantage by placing me closer to hammer. Claims that if I'm going to be unhelpful, then it's best for me to go.

ISO 3: Claims that his vote is not a policy vote. Last I checked, voting for reasons other than me actually being scummy [i.e unhelpful], is a policy vote, so what's the deal ther eLynx?

ISO 4: "Trying to paint yourself as a highly volatile player does not make you impossible to read. "

but next:

"Then whats the vote for?"


"To elicit a response from him."

Apparently it does I'd still say it does for the fact that I know I'm town and you have clouded judgement, and the results of your scumhunting will show that when I get lynched or NKed at some point in this game.

ISO 5, 6 and 8: You keep going on and on about how my apparant upcoming self hammer should not keep votes away, and how that makes me scum. I'm still not sure why this is the backbone of your case on me. Regardless of whether I self hammer or not, I'd be lynched for the reason that others thought I was scummy. Are you saying that players are too scared to vote me because I might be town and lynch myself? Bullshit, it's no different than the rest of you lynching me hoping I flip scum only to turn town. The only difference with the example game is nobody really genuinely thought I was scum, and I just took advantage of the quick RVS BW to make a move. We have all moved past RVS, and are voting on who we think is scummiest. Me threatening to self-hammer should have no effect AT ALL on the votes. Whether it's me or simply another person, the result is still the same, the flip is still the same, the amount of people lost is still the same. Denying the hammer is even neutral. On one hand I remove the possibility of a scum scummily hammering, but at the same time I'd also remove any scum chances of accusing a town hammerer.

I interupt myself to make another thing clear.

Saberwolf wrote:
Paradox: I have never lost a game as scum (6-0). Just remember that if you lynch me and I flip town.

THIS IS NOT MEANT TO CLEAR ME. THIS IS ME SIMPLY RUBBING YOUR POOR SCUMHUNTING SKILLS IN YOUR FACE.

The reason being you always use the same strategies, the same policies, always using the gambler's fallacy, to try and excuse why this game is always different from the others. "Because we were wrong in every other game, we have to be right on this one, the odds are in our favour."

Bullshit.

Anyways, back to this.

ISO 13: Lynx reads something that he doesn't understand. His solution: he votes me for it. That's simply all this vote is about.

ISO 15: finally says something about someone other than me. Wonders why MR is waiting for me to get lynched instead of scumhunting [quite ironic, as lynx is more tunneling than anything. The only times it's not one me is when he tells someone that their defence of me sucks, or that the accusations of MC sucks, but otherwise has no good inputs at all scumhuntingwise. Seriously, find me something where he actually contributes to the game, other than bitching about how unhelpful I have been. He's like a broken record. The last thing to note is MR doesn't even get a vote or even a FoS from lynx.

ISO 16 and 19: This is real classic bullshit right here. First, he accuses me of being scum for hopping on the biggest competiting bandwagon to my own. Then, he calls me out as scum for hopping on the second biggest competiting bandwagon. Never mind the fact that not only was I after these guys for most of the game [MR more than MC], but both of them have scummy points against them that Lynx refuses to acknowledge. The kicker also is that those two were the only other bandwagons out there, what else am I supposed to do?


That concludes my bit on Lynx.

ISO

[saberwolf]

I'd hate to have you in lylo, you'd vote for the first person to get a vote, just because it isn't for you.

unvote; vote: MR

That is what I call fortune-telling. Your new reason to vote me (other than for voting for you and "taking advantage of a situation.)" is because you'd hate to have me in Lylo.

so the key to avoiding your vote is to not be annoying? I cant really take anything from this statement, since you are new....but you cant play that newbie card all game.

Also, when you replay, please don’t reply in the quoted post…hard to read.

You told dank his play was distracting…what was it distracting from?

He is scummy because he has been hindering good discussion with his antics. His play distracts us from discussing "normally" as in good old fashioned discussion. Instead, he has told us all about his metas etc. and doesn't hesitate to bring them up. That's scummy, that he can't defend himself except by use of his metas and asking people "remember this game?"

Point number one: The comment and the vote are mutually exclusive. The comment is as face value, I'd really hate to have you in lylo. The vote is for admitting to taking advantage of a situation. It doesn't matter how anti-town you guys may find me, but if a thief tells an accountant that it's bad to alter the books, it doesn't make it any less true.

Point number two: I just mentioned it in my previous post. MY meta references are not meant to clear me, but to show what the others have done wrong in the past. You guys are meant to learn from this and try a new angle. Unfortunately for me, you guys are a little thick in the head.

I recall someone asking me do I like to aggrevate scum and town alike...well, I'm pissing you all off aren't I? So that's an obvious yes.

[saberwolf]

Another something to do because I'm bored and lonely and I'd like to kill myself but I'll just do this until I pass out from extreme exhaustion

Memorable Raindrops

I love players like you. You wanna know why? Because I hate to scumhunt, regardless of alignment. I'm more of a logic guy, using role claims and other clues to construct as many different scenarios as possible, and inform players how to optimally play the game to maximze town's chances of winning. [then they take over and scumhunt] So you can imagine my displeasure if I am ever forced to ISO somebody. Luckily for me, you only have nine posts in the entire game, making this very simple for me.

ISO 1: MR votes me and asks to see my self hammer. This is super anti-town, and [if MR is town] town should not try to be provoking a player into self hammering. This looks like scum trying to stir the pot to make an easy first day.

ISO 3: "THAT bet deal is making this game confusing (and annoying to read), and I'm patiently waiting for saber to be lynched. "

This is also very anti-town. Doing no scumhunting of her own, just hoping that the momentum is strong enough to carry on towards a mislynch. Never mind that there are four other scum to find if I was scum, she's content to watch it roll out.

ISO 4: Admits that the reason I'm being voted for is because I'm annoying. Annoying != scummy. Yet another anti-town move.

ISO 5: She admits to focusing on me, and claims to have no other scumreads on anybody else. This is a great way as scum to avoid responsibility for taking sides. With no other scumreads, she doesn't have to worry about backtracking or slipping up or worrying about bussing too far. The main reason she has no other leads though is because MR has done diddly squat.

ISO 6: Now MR claims that the reason she supports my lynch is because the odds are in our favour. WTF? "I think he's worth a lynch because, well, 5 out of the 12 players here are "scum--whether they be werewolves or mafia."" Last time I checked, 5/12 is not good odds. In fact, odds are in our favour that I'm town, so poor logic there.


"Annoying + distraction + hindered discussion + too much meta together equals good lynch"

Annoying != scumtell
Distraction...I'll give it to her, I have been a bit distracting.
Hindered Discussion = false. If anything, I've been the one keeping this game going. I sparked us out of RVS and have had the game flow moving just great. We have been discussing all kinds of points.
Meta != nulltell, but I can see where you're coming from. I already explained in last two posts reasons for bringing up meta.

Overall, nothing about how scummy I am for reasons A, B or C.

ISO 7: MR admits to being opportunistic and taking advantage of my bandwagon. MR also says I have better odds of flipping scum than anyone else. Truth of the matter is, I have the same theoretical odds as everyone else...5/12

That's the end of that. Overall, not a single pro-town thing to mention.

[saberwolf]

Good things always come in threes...

Bigmc109

13 posts! not bad compared to MR. Let's see what we got here...

ISO 2: Doesn't like my playstyle, so he votes me. That's fair enough. It wasn't because I was annoying, like MR explained it. He actually stated that because of my intended play, he was voting me. I see that as a pressure vote, in hopes of changed playstyle. Fine by me.

ISO 3: Gets a little scummy, not only about not knowing he put me at L-1, but also that "he completely missed MR's vote". The only vote, might I add, that had any scumminess to it.

ISO 4:
"Now for some actual scum hunting. I'm not liking sabrewolf at all. In addition to the whole self-lynching thing, I don't like his two attacks. I think Lynx's posts have been very pro-town so far (see 77)

and MR was early enough in the BW to not seem scummy going for the easy target. Though I will admit I wouldn't mind the attack on MR so much if he hadn't posted since then, so it might be a nulltell.

"

A gem of a statement right here...let me translate that into scum talk for you:

Positions do matter on the bandwagon, and because MR was Xth instead of X+1th on it, she has to be town. This is my way of protecting her. However, just in case she screws things up and gets lynched over lurking or anything else, I will cover my ass and say that it could be a nulltell, giving myself a back door in case the shit hits the fan.

By the way, while MR did post since then, it's been nothing of actual help, and far too little to be considered real posting.

ISO 6: This does work in MC's favour. He stays consistant by saying his vote was a pressure vote, and that's fine by me. What I don't like is how he just vaguely says I've done some scummy things, but fails to point any of them out.

ISO 9: OMGUS's CKD and Dank for supporting me. Not the greatest move a town could do.

ISO 11: He does an ok job with point 1 of why I should be lynched. Point 2 however, is full of holes. He thinks my lynch would make great information. Chances are if I was scum, my buddies are just as likely to be bussing me as they are not to be on the wagon. Like I also said, the only lead you would have is CKD. However, I do see a bit of MR in his post. He says he want's to lynch me becasue I'm very anti-town. Then he goes to say I'm very scummy. Not once has he ever mentioned I'm scummy up to this point, and antitown != scummy. He also fails to provide reasons for me being scummy, but provides vague reasons with no backing. I OMGUSed the whole game? Provide quotes and string up a case, don't just say it and hope that other's will just take your word.

Overall, Better performance than MR, and it's close between him and lynx. He shows consistancy, but there are obvious holes in his accusations and ends to a means. He also provides no actual evidence, but rather just feeds on opinion and standpoints in the game. His ties to Lynx and MR is what makes me more thinking that he's scum than his actual gameplay though, although I get a small scumvibe from that too.

[saberwolf]

Memorable Raindrops has requested replacement.

Pfft. I knew my case was convincing, but for MR to just quit like that...

[saberwolf]

Saberwolf's cases remind me of watching Glenn Beck.

yeah.........um...you're gonna have to elaborate on that....I didn't type all of that just so that one person could make a one liner reference that I don't even understand...

[saberwolf]

A one liner reference that you don't understand is basically all those three cases deserve.

I'll just be over here in the corner then....speaking up only when prodded...

[saberwolf]

Sorry, hit post too soon.

Do I think SW is scummy? Yes. Do I think MR was particularly scummy before he asked for a replacement? No, I had a null read on him. But the fact of the matter is he flaked as soon as he had a load of pressure on him, and that is scummier than SW's hot-and-cold play thus far.

Or.. he's an obvious newbie to the game, and after Saber and others jumped all over him, he felt overwhelmed? I thought it was pretty obvious that's what happened.

Tell me, he's said he's new to the game, and everyone could tell. It was also plainly obvious he got overwhelmed towards the end. Why would scumNoob MR replace out in that situation while townNoob MR stays in? Explain that please.

You're somehow saying that means he's scum, which is both ignorant and taking advantage of a situation. Sounds like you want to lynch MR quickly before he even gets a replacement, simply because he asked for one.

Oh, and please give me an example of saber's hot play, since he's been so "hot and cold". Interesting underhanded defense of his play, back it up.

major FOS bigmc

Saber goes today. You're very high on my list tomorrow.

I'm starting to think:

Dank, MR, ??? as mafia

MC and Lynx as werewolves.

[saberwolf]

I personally think newb townies would give up much more than newb scum. But a request for a replacement should have no impact. Voting someone for replacing out is foolish really. Big's vote seems nearly as opportunistic as saber's.

I'm starting to think:

Dank, MR, ??? as mafia

MC and Lynx as werewolves.

I don't think you can even try to be any more useless. Do you not understand that predicting multiple scum teams on Day 1 is extremely worthless?


Oh and V/LA until Wednesday. I'll might be able to get a post in here and there, but I have alot of finals these next two days.

I'm more useful than you know. I'm showing you my thoughts on certain players, which may reveal alignments and sides later on when them or myself are lynched. I also can be rather good at predictions sometimes. In killers mafia I managed to post a prediction of everyone's alignment and which team they belonged to, and I was 100% correct, with the only exception of I replaced my role (SK), with another player (VT), for obvious reasons, but I managed to peg all four scum, NKing three of them personally, and even managed to group them in the right teams. I find my gut can be more useful than my head sometimes, so I listen to it from time to time.

Please note that both dank and lynx never bother to show me or anyone else why my cases are bad or where I lack in scumhunting. They both prefer to just shoot me down by calling me a bad player in an attempt to discredit me in everyone else's eyes. Classic scum move.

[saberwolf]

Note that besides me and lynx, no one even acknowledged your cases.

If anyone besides saber actually supports what he is saying and would like to know why I disagree, I can explain it. Explaining to someone who will be lynched today why his cases suck, I see no reason to do. Even you, saber, I think can figure out why.

by explaining to me why they suck:

1. I gain insight for future games

2. You help the others see where you stand and how good of a case you had on me to support my lynch. Showing the others just why my cases suck would give you more town cred then if you just simply dismiss them, saying it's not worth your time because I'll be lynched. What makes you so sure I'll be lynched? IT almost sounds like you're no longer scumhunting, but holding your breath, waiting for someone to finish off the mislynch.

[saberwolf]

lol, Saber, you are not one to learn from your mistakes. Why waste my time?

And, the case on you doesn't need anymore explanation, its been beaten to death by now. There are just a few people who, while they say agree with your lynch, refuse to put up the final vote or two. Its practically unanimous that you're scummy and lynchworthy, its just been dragging on for too long (the reasons for this will be examined in more detail tomorrow).

Explaining your cases' flaws is not only a waste of time because you'll be lynched, but because they're plainly obvious (again, the town's ignored them for a reason). Why not ask the rest of the town what they think, since you're looking so desperately for helpful input?

This whole post is pointless. You might as well have ignored me. Nowhere does it explain why my cases are bad. Once again you're shooting me down with no real justification as to why, and you refuse to do anything I ask of you. None of this is pro-town behaviour.

[saberwolf]

*facepalm*

No, paradox, I made this case to show how scummy they are, but I totally want myself lynched

You're a fucking idiot.The whole point of this game is to make cases of why other people are better lynches. I have not done anything to distort the truth, all of my cases are 90-100% accurate, the difference being in areas where I may have reached conclusions of opinion, but you cannot deny the facts, especially MRs case.

Of course I want to secure a lynch other than my own, it's called PLAYING TO MY MOTHERFUCKING WIN CONDITION, something you guys have all been harping at me for in every single fucking game. I'm town, getting a lynch other than mine increases the odds of a town win.

Is everything I do gonna look like an attempt to look town, asshole? I swear to god if it weren't for the fact that you're all so obvscum, I'd ask you all to lynch me right now. Who cares WHY I made the cases anyways, the point was I was asked to make them and I did. I was bored, none of my other games were moving along and I didn't feel like studying for exams, so I did the cases.

I give up, I really just don't give a shit about this game anymore, and if it weren't for the fact that I fear the wrath of mith for recent self-hammers, I'd do it right now. Never mind what I said about obvscum, it just doesn't matter anymore.

Somebody pull the hammer soon plz.

[saberwolf]

When you guys lynch me and go to day two, please go after the obvscum. It's painfully obvious who they are at this point in the game. This should be an easy town win.

Good luck.

[saberwolf]

ok, so I'm back. I apologize for the rant, it was out of line. I have to remember that this is just a game, and to treat it as such. Feel free to lynch me still, and I'll simply remove the game and move on...then I only have 2 games left that I'm forced to complete or get lynched in. Have fun guys.

[saberwolf]

I think CKD and Lowell should join me on this BW, then we're tied 6-6, and we can have an ultimate BW showdown

[saberwolf]

Saber, you won't find much sympathy from me. You reap what you sow.

so what did I sow?

[saberwolf]

I can't quit, or I lose my bet. You already know that hewitt.