Mini 859 - Cleansing of Falls Church - Over

[DeathRowKitty]

College apps are (essentially) done, so I can now officially go back to putting off my school work in favor of mafia.

---

O, and can psychology be used as evidence to support a case?

Mafia is a game of psychology. If you can use psychology, do it. If you can read our minds, even better

Condolences BB.

This.

Knight of Cydonia, more like Actively Lurking to Avoid a Fight of Cydonia.

I'm hesitant to call it active lurking, since it seems he's stopped posting in all but his mishmash games. Unless you have reason to believe he's intentionally not posting, he's lurking (which isn't necessarily scummy), not active lurking (which is scummy). That's not to say he isn't scummy; he just isn't scummy for that.

Look at the move from BN to BNs attacker.
Look at the him trying to push policy lynch over scummy lynch.
Look at his jump off DJ wagon to not voting.

The look at no one wanting to lynch him today.

He wouldn't be a bad lynch, but right now i feel there are better, especially if KoC doesn't defend himself. Also notice that KoC had an anti DJ-wagon vote, (unvoted without explanation), and ended up not voting.

I don't think the evidence against either [Sanjay] or Bear is damning. I really haven't found anyone except KoC suspicious this game.

I find that odd.

No one

else has even been suspicious, yet the evidence against KoC is damning? That's a pretty big leap. Can you explain what exactly makes him that much scummier than anyone else?

would never lynch confirmed useless town over confirmed active scum. But I think that this game is unique enough to make keeping the active players around a worthwhile endeavor. So, if I KNEW that Sanjay was scum, I'd want him lynched, but since I don't know, I'd rather lynch someone who I KNOW is useless.

Seems slightly overrationalized (very slightly). I do agree with AB's main point though and I'm not getting what all the sudden AB hate is about.

Town or scum, he's the best lynch today

o_o

So, you don't care what you lynch, just that you lynch? Geez. If your buddy eleven wasn't so obvious after Raskol antics, plus what little he's done today, I'd vote you.

I iso'd KoC and I didn't see him once voice suspicions of EC (AB's predecessor) or AB. Very much an OMGUS reaction. It's even worse considering it was against an easy target and just looks like he was trying to divert attention away from the lackluster post after AB attacked him for it.

If you honestly thought Raskol's antics were "so obvious", you'd have attacked him when it happened. Instead you sat on a lazy DRK vote, not mentioning Raskol at all until Furry brought it up

QFT

Okay, now you're just pushing it, AB. KoC is scummier than SJ. This argument only applies if they're of roughly equal scumminess.

@BigBear, DRK, Semioldguy, & havingfitz: Content with the current situation or no?

I would like the situation better if more people were voting KoC and if we had fewer people acting scummy so we could coordinate onto one wagon. Overall though, I think we have a lot to go on right now.

[Furry]

College apps are (essentially) done, so I can now officially go back to putting off my school work in favor of mafia.

The aps are the easy part, although as long as you have decent grades and a few activites you should be fine. I only had a 3.8 with about half AP classes, one sport and one club and got into a good school. What school you shooting for?

Look at the move from BN to BNs attacker.
Look at the him trying to push policy lynch over scummy lynch.
Look at his jump off DJ wagon to not voting.

The look at no one wanting to lynch him today.

He wouldn't be a bad lynch, but right now i feel there are better, especially if KoC doesn't defend himself. Also notice that KoC had an anti DJ-wagon vote, (unvoted without explanation), and ended up not voting.

Raskol did much more direct defending of DJ though through an attempt at a Zazie wagon in a huge overblown reaction. This not only distracted from the whole DJ wagon, but also actively tried to surpass it with a new wagon. KoC didnt vote, but never made an attempt to get a different wagon.

[DeathRowKitty]

Raskol did much more direct defending of DJ though through an attempt at a Zazie wagon in a huge overblown reaction. This not only distracted from the whole DJ wagon, but also actively tried to surpass it with a new wagon. KoC didnt vote, but never made an attempt to get a different wagon.

He was a part of my wagon (a.k.a. the second biggest wagon near deadline) up until people started questioning the motives of those on the wagon. Also, don't forget he still hasn't said why he got off the wagon (still waiting for that, KoC).

[Sanjay]

BigBear was a fan of KoC avoiding the question for no reason, as I recall.

I think that's even weirder than KoC's question dodging.

But speaking of question dodging, KoC, did you ever get back to post 1072?

[Sanjay]

By the way, I'm totally down with archaebob being under some fire for his opinion, if only because I'm little taken aback with him not being totally down to lynch me. He knows why.

[archaebob]

By the way, I'm totally down with archaebob being under some fire for his opinion, if only because I'm little taken aback with him not being totally down to lynch me. He knows why.

Lol.

I honestly don't know what to do with you Sanjay. I can't automatically push for your lynch in every game I play with you.

That being said, you actually have not at all activated my gut in this game. I'll have to take a look at the actual evidence against you at some point, but right now I'm more interested in my pretty theory about environments.

@ Looker -

If we can lynch KoC today, I swear that I will look super closely at the evidence against Sanjay tomorrow. He's established himself as an active poster, so if he's scum, he's not going anywhere. Let's lynch the useless lurker, let somebody be NK'd, and then really get down to business tomorrow with a manageable, effective town.

[Looker]

By the way, I'm totally down with archaebob being under some fire for his opinion, if only because I'm little taken aback with him not being totally down to lynch me. He knows why.

Lol.

I honestly don't know what to do with you Sanjay. I can't automatically push for your lynch in every game I play with you.

That being said, you actually have not at all activated my gut in this game. I'll have to take a look at the actual evidence against you at some point, but right now I'm more interested in my pretty theory about environments.

@ Looker -

If we can lynch KoC today, I swear that I will look super closely at the evidence against Sanjay tomorrow. He's established himself as an active poster, so if he's scum, he's not going anywhere. Let's lynch the useless lurker, let somebody be NK'd, and then really get down to business tomorrow with a manageable, effective town.

- I don't want to be NK'd, Archaebob.

@ Sanjay
- What'd holding you up on BigBear? Why don't you vote KoC like everyone else?

@ All
- If KoC

is

scum, who do you propose his partner to be?

@ Sanjay
- Are you not voting Eleven right now because you don't want anymore votes on KoC to compensate for your

insurgency

?

@ All
- I would ask loudly "WHY CAN WE NOT LYNCH SANJAY?"; however, I prefer the days where the town is divided and the lynch wagon is minute, this makes it all the more easier to pick out the subversives.

Code: Select all

Testicles. That is all...

[eleven knives in a throat]

I'm hesitant to call it active lurking, since it seems he's stopped posting in all but his mishmash games. Unless you have reason to believe he's intentionally not posting, he's lurking (which isn't necessarily scummy), not active lurking (which is scummy). That's not to say he isn't scummy; he just isn't scummy for that.

When I say KoC is "active lurking", what I mean is he's posting, but not really saying anything. Posting one-liners like "Go go gadget bandwagon" is just as non-contributory as lurking, only it's more active, hence the name active lurking.

It's also a lot less likely that someone is accidentally active lurking than that someone is accidentally lurking, which is why I take it as a stronger tell.

I don't think the evidence against either [Sanjay] or Bear is damning. I really haven't found anyone except KoC suspicious this game.

I find that odd.

No one

else has even been suspicious, yet the evidence against KoC is damning? That's a pretty big leap. Can you explain what exactly makes him that much scummier than anyone else?

Alright here's my main points against KoC:

1. He abandoned his attack on DRK in a completely non-townie manner.

He spent all of his time yesterday and early today sure that DRK was scum, then silently dropped DRK just as soon as I voted him, never to so much as mention DRK again. When a townie is that convinced a player is scum, he's certainly not going to drop it that easily and that quietly.

2. He fakes certainty.

Not only is there the vanishing DRK crusade, but he's now calling Raskol's actions obviously scummy even though his own response to Raskol was far tamer, and there's also the absurd way he's very definitely certain arch is scum based on all of one sentence. He acts certain because it adds a lot of gravity to an attack, but doesn't behave like a certain townie at all.

3. He started actively lurking after he got wagoned.

His first few posts after arch and DRK voted for him were pointless drivel, and even his most recent posts still don't address the case on him at all. Rather than fighting the case, he's ignoring it and hoping everyone else will ignore it too.

There's also the arguments I brought up when I first voted him (fishing Bear's vote onto DRK before getting on the wagon himself and acting surprised at DJ's flip) but those are minor in comparison.

@ All
- If KoC

is

scum, who do you propose his partner to be?

gut says either havingfitz or Sanjay

[Looker]

Alright, so we're on the same page! Sanjay is scum! But, of course, the suspicions of Eleven, Cydonia, and Furry individually can't hold much wait; therefore, I propose KoC and Furry get some opinions out here so we can get to rollin'!

[Looker]

EBWOP:

[archaebob]

If you want a faster response from KoC, looker, I suggest you hop on board.

@ KoC-

C'mon, cut the crap, and post something. Don't waste your time, or time will waste you.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Oh, that's a good one.
I see no reason to wasste my time on such a benighted, easily lead town. I will claim if/when it is necessary, but until that time comes, frankly, you can all go to hell.

[eleven knives in a throat]

Really now, easily led town? You just got done saying two of the three players voting you are scum. It sure sounds like you know there's more than one townie on you, Scum of Scumdonia.

[Furry]

Alright, so we're on the same page! Sanjay is scum! But, of course, the suspicions of Eleven, Cydonia, and Furry individually can't hold much wait; therefore, I propose KoC and Furry get some opinions out here so we can get to rollin'!

What opinions do you really want here?

Im just in a wierd spot. My top suspect apparently no one agrees with me on, and my second pick may actually stand even less of a chance as him to get lynched. Im basically left with third/fourth picks as the only viable wagons if I move, so I really dont want to at this point.

With impending deadline though its looking like its going to be a necessity to move however, which really sucks. I actually (if forced to go between KoC, Sanjay BB) would go with BB at this point, but THAT wagon (while not only being a third pick) appears to be stalling out as well.

Maybe this does mean the best thing I can do though is move to BB, have KoC come with me in self-preservation, and hope remaining scum contain my third suspect since its the only one who might be lynchable today.

I dont like being confined like this.

@KoC - It really isnt hard to mask anger/bitterness, im a great example of pulling that off. Just respond to the few points, make a bit of a case and maybe we can get out of what now is a slow and inevitable switch to that wagon.

@all - There are quite a few of you who are stalling a change that I see coming from you. This is not helpful with a deadline friday. We need the information now.

unvote
vote BB

I can explain this more later

[Looker]

Oh, that's a good one.
I see no reason to wasste my time on such a benighted, easily lead town. I will claim if/when it is necessary, but until that time comes, frankly, you can all go to hell.

Someone

has yet to read my location...

Alright, so we're on the same page! Sanjay is scum! But, of course, the suspicions of Eleven, Cydonia, and Furry individually can't hold much wait; therefore, I propose KoC and Furry get some opinions out here so we can get to rollin'!

What opinions do you really want here?

Im just in a wierd spot. My top suspect apparently no one agrees with me on, and my second pick may actually stand even less of a chance as him to get lynched. Im basically left with third/fourth picks as the only viable wagons if I move, so I really dont want to at this point.

With impending deadline though its looking like its going to be a necessity to move however, which really sucks. I actually (if forced to go between KoC, Sanjay BB) would go with BB at this point, but THAT wagon (while not only being a third pick) appears to be stalling out as well.

Maybe this does mean the best thing I can do though is move to BB, have KoC come with me in self-preservation, and hope remaining scum contain my third suspect since its the only one who might be lynchable today.

I dont like being confined like this.

@KoC - It really isnt hard to mask anger/bitterness, im a great example of pulling that off. Just respond to the few points, make a bit of a case and maybe we can get out of what now is a slow and inevitable switch to that wagon.

@all - There are quite a few of you who are stalling a change that I see coming from you. This is not helpful with a deadline friday. We need the information now.

unvote
vote BB

I can explain this more later

Could you have explicated this in a less convoluted manner? For example:

1. BB - No one wants to lynch him, though
2. blah blah - Reason for whatever you're saying

All I really got out of that post was "vote BB". You didn't say whether or not you thought any of them were scum, you just voted BB.

O, and

We need the information now.

but

I can explain this more later

?

You knew

somebody

was gonna have something to say about that.

I'm not trying to get you guys to say "Sanjay is scum", I'm just trying to at least get your opinion on not only what I'm saying but the probability of him being scum. Do you think it's likely, do you think it's not? It's not a trap or a trick, I promise. It's just a simple question.

Geez, you guys are too smart for your own good

[Furry]

1. BB - No one wants to lynch him, though
2. blah blah - Reason for whatever you're saying

With my vote (and the expected vote from semi on sanjay) its a three way tie. That lynch has support.

O, and

We need the information now.

but

I can explain this more later

?

You knew

somebody

was gonna have something to say about that.

I'm not trying to get you guys to say "Sanjay is scum", I'm just trying to at least get your opinion on not only what I'm saying but the probability of him being scum. Do you think it's likely, do you think it's not? It's not a trap or a trick, I promise. It's just a simple question.

Meeting someone for lunch in 10 minutes. So yeah, later. Signifying intent for wagons to move early is better however.

Also I dont think Sanjay is scum. Chances of me voting him today are near nothing.

[Looker]

Welp, that answers my question. Hope you enjoy your lunch.

100% accountability, folks. 100% accountability.

[Sanjay]

Looker, Big Bear's absence from the thread is totally understandable given the circumstances, but until he comes back I see no reason to move my vote.

What don't you like about the BigBear wagon, Looker?

---

If KoC is scum, I'm not really sure who the third scumbuddy is. I really like this BigBear vote and everything, but as much as I didn't like the wagon, I'd be kind of surprised if

everyone

on the DRK wagon besides ConfidAnon ended up being scum. archaebob and Knives are doing some pretty good distancing right now, so I'd be inclined to think not them. I'd have to dig a little low in my scumlist to find someone.

---

KoC, what is with the attitude?

[Looker]

Looker, Big Bear's absence from the thread is totally understandable given the circumstances, but until he comes back I see no reason to move my vote.

What don't you like about the BigBear wagon, Looker?

---

If KoC is scum, I'm not really sure who the third scumbuddy is. I really like this BigBear vote and everything, but as much as I didn't like the wagon, I'd be kind of surprised if

everyone

on the DRK wagon besides ConfidAnon ended up being scum. archaebob and Knives are doing some pretty good distancing right now, so I'd be inclined to think not them. I'd have to dig a little low in my scumlist to find someone.

---

KoC, what is with the attitude?

O, I have no problem with the BigBear wagon, every person has a right to their opinion, I just wanted to verify that everyone had one so whomever gets lynched, we can have the reasons why. That's all. I am in no way criticizing your intentions. You play however you like.

RE: KoC - There's nothing wrong with that. I do that, too, when I want attention.

O, but, btw, you

are

the mafia scum...just in case you forgot...

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh, that's a good one.
I see no reason to wasste my time on such a benighted, easily lead town. I will claim if/when it is necessary, but until that time comes, frankly, you can all go to hell.

You'd rather wait around and claim instead of defending yourself? Make sure you have a good fakeclaim ready. Also, what EKT said.

@Looker
Let's say for sake of argument that SJ were to die and flip town. Who would you then suspect as scum?

[BigBear]

Ha ha, welcome to the game, BigBear. Thanks for replacing in.

If you thought my day one case against you was extremely scummy, why are you just voting for me now?

Because when I was MIA for a while it was mostly from the beginning of day two, I hadn't posted much of anything, so i figured i'd review some end of day 1 activities. Also at the beginning of Day 2, I was suspicious of DRK for his end of D1 activities.

Here's the timeline I see:

I post a case against BigBear that BigBear considers "very scummy".
I suggest people vote for BigBear instead of DJ.
DJ flips scum.
BigBear votes DRK and ignores me.


What?

Your time-line is off. I didn't even look at your case against me until after I voted DRK.

Also, bullshit on that case being "very scummy". Why? Because it was stuff that happened early in the game? That's real funny for someone who was trying to policy lynch DRK yesterday because of jester speculation on page 8. I think your stance as a jester speculation policy lyncher is totally wacky given how freely you yourself talked about jesters, and I don't think because it was early in the game you get to just magically wave it off.

When I "Freely" talked about jesters it was mainly me saying that we should lynch players that suggest jesters, and me saying that we should lynch DRK for bringing up jesters. Every time someone brought up the idea of a jester in a game that I have played, they were scum. I'm just saying.

The reason I didn't bring up that stuff at the time is because I didn't notice it as weird at the time. I didn't want to lynch DJ after he caught up, especially after he claimed power role, so I was looking for other lynch options.

So what made me stand out as opposed to other players?

Why didn't you talk about that very scummy post until now? Did you miss it or something?

See above.

Also, BigBear, I thought I made it clear why I thought you were suspicious for attacking my attacker. Because I don't see town doing it. Why are you having such trouble wrapping your head around that concept?

I'm playing rather reckless this game, in that i'm not really keeping track of some of my previous actions. Mainly because I've been so absent, and it's a rather long game.

I probably was reading a bit into that post, but the fact remains that this offense against me is coming much later than I would expect from town.

So because I didn't attack you earlier for this, it seems anti-town? Hope fully my above post explains this. I'll say it again I guess, I was rather lurking, and hadn't paid much attention to this game. Because of that, i hadn't gotten to anyone's posts really. yours stood out to me. It seemed like you wanted to distract the DJ wagon.

I am calling him suspicious because he isn't suspicious of me.

Are you expecting me to vote you or something?

This smells of baiting.

I guess I might as well say something Sanjay, - Are you really open to any wagon other than yours?

Could you clarify this? The tone is as if you discovered some amazing scumslip or something, but I really don't see what is remotely suspicious about me trying to attract players to a wagon I'm supporting.

It felt as if you wanted me to vote you, and because I didn't vote you, you became suspicious of me. Since I thought your case against me at the end of D1, you would presume that I would vote you for it at the beginning of D2, right? Well since I didn't actually look at that post until mid day, that idea of yours is false. And since you would have expected me to vote you, and I didn't, you called me suspicious. It just feels as if your initial case was baiting me to vote you, either at the end of day 1, or the beginning of day 2.

Wondering about BigBear since he was apparently on site near deadline, but not in thread (until hammer time). When I have been scum before with a buddy being the top wagon in a deadline crunch I feel like avoiding the thread as to not make matters worse for my team. This could apply to others in this game as well, BigBear was just pointed out as doing so in thread.

I'm not sure if this solves the statement against me, but I'm modding a mini-normal, and I was probably working on that during deadline, and forgot about the deadline here.

I can see reasons why a town power might want to soft claim instead of full claim.

I disagree, a "town" player soft claiming and refusing to full claim at L-1/L-2 is scummy in my eyes.

Basically I just thought he was an idiot.

Then why did you look at me as another lynch candidate?

@BB
I linked this post because it's too long to reasonably quote. In this post, your only comment about my defense is that you didn't like part of it, yet by the end of the post, you unvoted me and voted SJ. Is there something there I'm not getting? Also, it'd be nice if you could elaborate on what you didn't like about my post.

Would you like me to explain why I didn't like the answers? On the second one, could you point out posts where you thought CA was likely to be cop? Because I find that second answer to be more of a cop-out since we know that CA was a cop. As for the first one, its like your saying "oh I didn't want to look scummy, so I had to act confident." I just don't like that, it's like your trying to look like a town player.

Looker, my problem with lynching Sanjay is that

he is a rather costly mislynch.

I think that this game is extremely convoluted right now, and we're going to be better off in the long run cleaning up the town than trying to hit scummy players who are active posters. I don't see Sanjay as scummier than KoC, but i see KoC-town as way more useless than Sanjay-town.

There is no such thing as a

costly

mislynch. All lynches, even mislynches can yield important information.

A costly mislynch is one that hurts that the town in ways beyond simply being down another town player. This game suffers from a lack of cohesion, focus, and activity. From what I can tell, Sanjay has been instrumental in keeping this thread alive, simply because he posts coherently, and often. An environment without any players like Sanjay favors scum, because there is no organized structure by which you can measure a player's actions. They can slip by. SO...I'm saying that I'd rather keep Sanjay around because I'm not positive that he's scum, and I think the town will benefit more in the long run from narrowing itself down to a core of consistent players than it will from stabbing at who they think

might

be the scum right now.

I guess my question is, in this game-type, will

you

ever be certain that someone is scum, before you vote for them?

alright, i think KoC is really deserving of the wagon right now. Can we get the heat up?

Town or scum, he's the best lynch today,

and I think it's not implausible that he's scum. That last post was totally pointless, and looks like a text-book case of disinterested scum.

Can you give another example of a text-book case of disinterested scum? Or match it with some form of meta? So, in loo of your earlier posts, you think that this player is more likely to be scum than Sanjay?
-And a note towards the bolded, That doesn't fit with your earlier statements. specifically post 1207.

@BigBear, DRK, Semioldguy, & havingfitz: Content with the current situation or no?

No, I'd rather have Sanjay be the leading wagon. Duh.

BigBear was a fan of KoC avoiding the question for no reason, as I recall.

I think that's even weirder than KoC's question dodging.

But speaking of question dodging, KoC, did you ever get back to post 1072?

I'm a fan of gambits in general.

By the way, I'm totally down with archaebob being under some fire for his opinion, if only because I'm little taken aback with him not being totally down to lynch me. He knows why.

Why do you want everyone to be suspicious of you? This reminds me of DTM self voting and putting a case against himself at the beginning of day 2 of Battle Mafia. hmm....

AB activated my gut with the end of this post.

@ Sanjay
- What'd holding you up on BigBear? Why don't you vote KoC like everyone else?

- Are you not voting Eleven right now because you don't want anymore votes on KoC to compensate for your

insurgency

?

I guess those two could be put together if either flipped scum.

If you want a faster response from KoC, looker, I suggest you hop on board.

@ KoC-

C'mon, cut the crap, and post something. Don't waste your time, or time will waste you.

You seem to be rather aggressive now that you're on the leading wagon. In your own words can you explain the change of attitude that I have found in you?

---

Why I don't like Furry's post and vote against me.
-He gives his "top 3" suspects
-Votes his third suspect, while his first listed one is the leading wagon, his second suspect is in 2nd place for a wagon, and his third place (me) has 1 vote I think.
- While he votes me he suggests that KoC should also vote me for self preservation, and then suggests that remaining scum vote as well to "contain" me.
-Yet you say you don't like being confined to this idea.

I don't see how town would vote for their third suspect, while their first is actually leading a wagon.

Granted KoC's recent posts have been anti-town, i'm happy with my vote for now.

[Sanjay]

Let's do this quote war style:

Ha ha, welcome to the game, BigBear. Thanks for replacing in.

If you thought my day one case against you was extremely scummy, why are you just voting for me now?

Because when I was MIA for a while it was mostly from the beginning of day two, I hadn't posted much of anything, so i figured i'd review some end of day 1 activities. Also at the beginning of Day 2, I was suspicious of DRK for his end of D1 activities.

Here's the timeline I see:

I post a case against BigBear that BigBear considers "very scummy".
I suggest people vote for BigBear instead of DJ.
DJ flips scum.
BigBear votes DRK and ignores me.


What?

Your time-line is off. I didn't even look at your case against me until after I voted DRK.

By end of D1 activities you mean what? The last ten posts before the lynch scene? How was my day 1 case against you not a end of day 1 activity? How did you miss it?

Also, bullshit on that case being "very scummy". Why? Because it was stuff that happened early in the game? That's real funny for someone who was trying to policy lynch DRK yesterday because of jester speculation on page 8. I think your stance as a jester speculation policy lyncher is totally wacky given how freely you yourself talked about jesters, and I don't think because it was early in the game you get to just magically wave it off.

When I "Freely" talked about jesters it was mainly me saying that we should lynch players that suggest jesters, and me saying that we should lynch DRK for bringing up jesters. Every time someone brought up the idea of a jester in a game that I have played, they were scum. I'm just saying.

This doesn't answer the main point. What is so scummy about that case? I don't see it at all.

Also, if you policy lynch people for jester speculation, why haven't you given Furry any trouble? Bagel bites, man. Nook did just as much jester speculation as DRK did.

The reason I didn't bring up that stuff at the time is because I didn't notice it as weird at the time. I didn't want to lynch DJ after he caught up, especially after he claimed power role, so I was looking for other lynch options.

So what made me stand out as opposed to other players?

I believe I explained this. I thought the DRK wagon was a good place to look because everyone on it was ridiculous, and your posts seemed scummier than KoC's.

Why didn't you talk about that very scummy post until now? Did you miss it or something?

See above.

Also, BigBear, I thought I made it clear why I thought you were suspicious for attacking my attacker. Because I don't see town doing it. Why are you having such trouble wrapping your head around that concept?

I'm playing rather reckless this game, in that i'm not really keeping track of some of my previous actions. Mainly because I've been so absent, and it's a rather long game.

I probably was reading a bit into that post, but the fact remains that this offense against me is coming much later than I would expect from town.

So because I didn't attack you earlier for this, it seems anti-town? Hope fully my above post explains this. I'll say it again I guess, I was rather lurking, and hadn't paid much attention to this game. Because of that, i hadn't gotten to anyone's posts really. yours stood out to me. It seemed like you wanted to distract the DJ wagon.

I didn't say it seemed anti-town. I said it was unlikely to come from town. You are still having trouble with this. I understand your explanation now, but surely you understand mine too, right? It seems like you don't because you are still acting like there is something wrong with it.

I am calling him suspicious because he isn't suspicious of me.

Are you expecting me to vote you or something?

This smells of baiting.

I guess I might as well say something Sanjay, - Are you really open to any wagon other than yours?

Could you clarify this? The tone is as if you discovered some amazing scumslip or something, but I really don't see what is remotely suspicious about me trying to attract players to a wagon I'm supporting.

It felt as if you wanted me to vote you, and because I didn't vote you, you became suspicious of me. Since I thought your case against me at the end of D1, you would presume that I would vote you for it at the beginning of D2, right? Well since I didn't actually look at that post until mid day, that idea of yours is false. And since you would have expected me to vote you, and I didn't, you called me suspicious. It just feels as if your initial case was baiting me to vote you, either at the end of day 1, or the beginning of day 2.

Uh, so because I incorrectly assumed that you actually read the thread, somehow I'm in the wrong?

It's not baiting. It's INCORRECTLY ASSUMING YOU AREN'T TERRIBLE.

Also, what did that have to do with the post you linked to?

I can see reasons why a town power might want to soft claim instead of full claim.

I disagree, a "town" player soft claiming and refusing to full claim at L-1/L-2 is scummy in my eyes.

That's not a disagreement. That's an irrelevant statement to my point. Easy mistake, I know. How does you thinking that conflict with me seeing reasons why a town power might want to soft claim? Hint: It doesn't.

I can see reasons why a town power might not want to full claim, because if they actually are town power, it only really helps the mafia. I guess general best practice is for town power to full claim, but that doesn't change the fact that I understood the perspective DJ was faking.

Basically I just thought he was an idiot.

Then why did you look at me as another lynch candidate?

Because being an idiot isn't a scumtell and I like letting power roles live because they are easy to scrutinize. Damn that was an easy question.

BigBear was a fan of KoC avoiding the question for no reason, as I recall.

I think that's even weirder than KoC's question dodging.

But speaking of question dodging, KoC, did you ever get back to post 1072?

I'm a fan of gambits in general.

So you probably have some insight into what KoC is trying to pull here, right? We are all kind of in the dark about this so if you want to explain that one, that would be solid.

Is question dodging for no reason a gambit now?

By the way, I'm totally down with archaebob being under some fire for his opinion, if only because I'm little taken aback with him not being totally down to lynch me. He knows why.

Why do you want everyone to be suspicious of you? This reminds me of DTM self voting and putting a case against himself at the beginning of day 2 of Battle Mafia. hmm....

Just like town-BigBear, I feel like archaebob has special reason to mistrust me. I hardly think two people constitute everyone.

@ Sanjay
- What'd holding you up on BigBear? Why don't you vote KoC like everyone else?

- Are you not voting Eleven right now because you don't want anymore votes on KoC to compensate for your

insurgency

?

I guess those two could be put together if either flipped scum.

Really and truly? Do you really think my not moving my vote from you was unjustified in the slightest? You hadn't posted a response to anything I said.

I'll post a TLDR version of this post in my next post.

[Sanjay]

Bulletpoints:

I don't see how you missed my case initially and it feels like you decided it was super scummy after the fact.

I don't see why it is super scummy.

I don't understand your support of KoC's question dodging. (Also, how has KoC been anti-town? I thought you were a fan of this?)

Beyond making a wagon against you that distracted from the DJ wagon, I think your case against me sucks.

[BigBear]

Bulletpoints:

I don't see how you missed my case initially and it feels like you decided it was super scummy after the fact.

I don't see why it is super scummy.

I don't understand your support of KoC's question dodging. (Also, how has KoC been anti-town? I thought you were a fan of this?)

Beyond making a wagon against you that distracted from the DJ wagon, I think your case against me sucks.

I'll answer these bulleted items quickly, because I want to go to bed. I'll take on the bigger post after classes tomorrow. hopefully.

1. I missed your case because it was on page 40. Page 41 was DRK's end of D1 activities. That's what I focused on mostly, because the Lynch scene was also there, and it seemed the most recent.

2. I'm sorry you don't see that.

3. KoC's earlier actions, where he was keeping it a secret for what I thought would be the time being, i liked. His attitude change and near refusal to answer what appears to be any questions, is anti-town in my eyes.

4. I guess it's a good thing that is the majority of my case.

[Furry]

Why I don't like Furry's post and vote against me.
-He gives his "top 3" suspects
-Votes his third suspect, while his first listed one is the leading wagon, his second suspect is in 2nd place for a wagon, and his third place (me) has 1 vote I think.
- While he votes me he suggests that KoC should also vote me for self preservation, and then suggests that remaining scum vote as well to "contain" me.
-Yet you say you don't like being confined to this idea.

I don't see how town would vote for their third suspect, while their first is actually leading a wagon.

Break it down...

-Point that does nothing but makes my points looks weak
-EKT has two votes (not leading wagon) and no one else seems interested in voting him. You have two votes already. If not EKT, I actually like an arch lynch, but that isnt happening either.
-I want KoC to vote you more then Sanjay, so will encourage it. Also I insinuated that semi was going to vote sanjay.
-I dont like being confined to a small range of actions. Thats my issue here, best move looks like it wont happen, second has no chance, so I am trying to get my third one to prevent anything worse from occuring.
-Annnnd again... EKT is not a leading wagon. Its basically a dead one, and the longer I push it, the harder it is to not have this be a KoC/Sanjay rundown. Third suspect is better then out of top three lynch.