Scien wrote:Dang right I am.
???Scien wrote:You are considering your all main suspects right?
Announcement: I'm finally rereading this mess over lunch. Be back soon with some stuff hopefully.
I am on your top three and you haven't even talked to me this game. Does your top three mean anything? Or is it just there to fall back on later when you need to move your suspicions...PapaZ wrote:???
Do you have any idea how difficult it is to wagon Troll?Scien wrote:I am on your top three and you haven't even talked to me this game. Does your top three mean anything? Or is it just there to fall back on later when you need to move your suspicions...PapaZ wrote:???
If you haven't talked to a person on your top 3 suspects... are you even really suspect of your top 3? Or are you just focused on one for the meantime?
Do you have any idea how difficult it is to wagon Troll?Scien wrote:I am on your top three and you haven't even talked to me this game. Does your top three mean anything? Or is it just there to fall back on later when you need to move your suspicions...PapaZ wrote:???
If you haven't talked to a person on your top 3 suspects... are you even really suspect of your top 3? Or are you just focused on one for the meantime?
Actually no.crypto wrote:And AGar's playing to his town meta?
Where did I ever say I wouldn't be keeping an eye on crypto? I'll give you a pro-tip here, the best way to deal with replacements of a scummy player is to let them play for awhile and see if they make scummy actions of their own. If they do, you almost certainly have scum on your hands. If not, then your original read may be wrong.Scien wrote:I still have questions over this. You believed him scum enough to place a vote. You had questions out true. But you believed him scum. The response to the replace is to remove your vote? How is that trying to lynch scum?
Yes, you lost the opportunities to see reactions to your points on your target. That sucks. But you suspicions should remain no?
No, you are claiming I'm not suspicious of the slot when my actual stance is to observe at the moment. They are quite different approaches, but fill in the blanks however you like to make your case.Scien wrote:But the replace has you removing your vote, and apparently your suspicions too.
This makes no sense whatsoever. Why would I 'lose my nerve' to get a mislynch? If I'm scum, isn't that my main objective? And it's not like a big threat replaced into the slot...as opposed to a relative noob who would not be that difficult to get a mislynch on.Scien wrote:One possible motive. You were adding pressure on someone that eventually replaced. Seeing that they replaced, you lost the nerve to follow through and risk the town seeing you push towards a townie lynch. The replace was a good time as any to remove your vote and 'look elsewhere'.
Also doesn't make sense since I put my vote on my number two suspect, which I stated as such before Raskol replaced out.Scien wrote:Less negative on playstyle motive? You realize it is getting towards end of day, and that your target is not going to be the lynch. You need to free vote up so that you can press towards people with more townie interest on them. Replace came along and gave you a good excuse to remove your vote and lose your suspicions.
If a wagon is shit, expect me to tell you so. Like I said, I was justified in SC's flip. You can call it a scumploy all you want, facts are facts, and you're reaching to ridiculous ends.Scien wrote:I really have to go into theory? Wagon's are tools. Pressure helps get real reactions out of people. It doesn't matter if the target was good or bad really. The pressure is the goal.
Are you even looking for context AT ALL? I voted for Amished barely over a day before deadline. How likely do you think it would have been for me to get a PapaZ lynch in a day's time when he had no votes for him and multiple people had said they weren't moved by the arguments presented? Hint: basically zero.Scien wrote:You were on PapaZ. You supposedly had him as your main suspect. But were going to be away towards end game. But back in time for deadline. You change your vote to the developing either/or anyway, and say that when you get back you will change it if necessary?
Oj wrote:Not really able read this as a strong alignment tell either way in itself but if you look at thisAGar wrote:
I'm probably going to be lynched tomorrow, I guess that's not going to change. That's fine. I haven't played the best game, and it's a pretty fair reasoning to lynch me.
Where's the guy who supposedly strives under pressure, where's the reads and reactions t your wagon?AGar wrote:
3. There should probably be way more pressure on me since I have not really contributed as much as I would personally have liked to in this game. It actually pisses me off that no one has come after me for anything yet, because I gain reads that way.
Especially if you want this, take the passive language out please. [/quote]AGar wrote:
Just take time to make it to the deadline before hammering so a gameplan can be figured out for tomorrow.
Well crap. I guess I was remembering it wrong. I didn't really go back to look at the exact time line until today, but yeah...I don't understand his argument either way.OJ wrote:VP, Scien's referencing the fact that you unvoted PZ before going V/LA 4 days before DL while saying you'll probably vote Sando when you drop in closer to it. I think you remember wrong the vote situation though, it was Sando 4 and four others, including Zito, at 2 votes, Amished wagon wasn't born yet really.
Noobishness doesn't have everything to do with join date. His approach to the game, however, screams noob. Look at the way he wants to look for scum. It's not exactly a refined process, nor do I think it would be a very effective method.Oj wrote:Why do you think crypto is a noob? His join date is less than a month away from Zito's, Seral's and mine for instance, and he's played plenty.
You've piqued my interest, anything concrete?PapaZ wrote:I'm worried about Ojanen.
I agree with this.PapaZ wrote:ABR has made one big posted and coasted.
Much more rushed than the Sando wagon, IIRC.Ojanen wrote:crypto, how would you compare that wagon to the Sando wagon in terms of deadline rush?
All right, Captain, here's my case:VP Baltar wrote:@crypto 557-the two posts you quoted from me do not show a difference of opinion in the least. As a replacement, especially into a suspicious slot, you have an obligation to prove your towniness to me. A case on alleged suspect Zorblag would help that. Get chopping or get lynched.
I wish I could say there was.VP Baltar wrote:You've piqued my interest, anything concrete?PapaZ wrote:I'm worried about Ojanen.
After this post, she goes off on ODDin and then AGar. ABR is never brought up again.Ojanen wrote:I'm trying to figure out Mr. Rampage. Suspicious of Amished slot, and I have a hard time reading ABR.
I just reread the thread. You really are playing a scum game atm.crypto wrote:FOS: Papa Zito for the AGar part of post 580. Not sure what to make of the flip-flop. Could be busing if AGar flips scum, but then I'd be disappointed if AGar didn't lynched, so ... meh.
I didn't really think "Captain" was a serious insult.VP wrote:Well, that's at least better than what you had before. Also, why do you insist on trying to insult every single person that questions you?
I know you did. Reading the thread is not a town tell, PZ. Going from hardly mentioning or interacting with me to accusing me simply because I posted aPZ wrote:I just reread the thread. You really are playing a scum game atm.
I've found him less "intense" as scum. As town he nitpicks the hell out of everything and doesn't let go. There's a lot more "yeah well maybe" in this game. Not that this is damning at all but it's like that itch on your back that you have to use the corner of a wall to scratch, and you end up looking like a moron.charlatan wrote:I find this pretty interesting, because I'm having a hard time getting a handle on Scien this game, too, and I find this comment surprising. The only game I've played with him was that newbie game I was only in for a day or two (PZ was in it, too). The one difference I've noticed is that Scien was worlds more intense in that game, very much up to speed and making arguments. However, I did not find him clueless at all then and was rather impressed with him overall. Do I misunderstand what you're saying here?
The wagon on me is, for the most part, based off of (from what I can tell) my inactivity day 1. I've made my points on that, it's not going to change the people.Ojanen wrote:Where's the guy who supposedly strives under pressure, where's the reads and reactions t your wagon?AGar early D2 wrote:3. There should probably be way more pressure on me since I have not really contributed as much as I would personally have liked to in this game. It actually pisses me off that no one has come after me for anything yet, because I gain reads that way.
There's a dissonance here to him currently flapping around somewhat phlegmatically, hate the defeatism.
If he's scum, he's taking it too peacefully, I would guess some bussing to have taken effect already in that case.
If you're town, fight dammit, get content out.
That wasn't my response to the vote, heh. That was just to his "One of the three who weren't on the wagon should be lynched" theory.Ojanen wrote:570 was provoked btw by the fact that I was expecting severely more as reactions and conclusions when the initial reactions to the votes were of this typeAGar to crypto voting him wrote:LOL.
That is all for now.
Check your PayPal account, chief. I'm makin' it rain.VP Baltar wrote: WHERE THE HELL IS MY MILLION DOLLARS?
I think I might not have asked my question correctly. I don't care at all about Raskol replacing and do not expect anyone else to. That is completely non-indicative of alignment. However, it probably stands to reason he could have answered some of the questions or suspicions directed his way before doing so. Do you think it's relevant that he did not?ODDin wrote:Only annoying. I don't think replacing out of the game means something about the player's role, especially when a specific reason is provided which says the opposite. So, no, I don't think it's scummy, since I see no reason for Raskol-scum to be more likely to replace out than for Raskol-town.charlatan wrote:Is Raskol replacing out without addressing them only annoying, or also scummy?
Word. I did not take "clueless townie" in reference to knowing alignments, more like being generally stupid. Now I get you.Papa Zito wrote: By clueless I mean every townie is clueless as to who the bad guys are, and so they try to guess and put pieces of the puzzle together. He mimics this activity well as scum, I suspect because he's an uber-logical player.
This is kind of hardcore excuse-making. You don't have to be a better player than anyone here to play with this group or any other. Everyone slips. Nobody is scumtell-proof. You don't have a shot if you don't engage, and posts like this read like an attempt to rid yourself of responsibility. That said:AGar wrote: I'm trying to stick to a semi-minimalist approach this game because it's a bigger one than I'm used to on MS, with a lot better players. I've played solely in Newbie Games up to this point, so it's a bit easier to catch people who stick out obviously in them. I'm not necessarily ignoring people, but I'm not trying to get fully focused on everyone at once here, because each player has a lot better play than what I'm used to. I don't want to overextend my attention to too many people and botch something because of it, I'd much rather keep my approach to a few players and not get too involved in confusing myself with things.
I get a vague sense that this is pre-emptively blaming AGar for his mislynch in the event that he flips town. This is hard to quantify, and I wonder if I'm alone in this.VP Baltar wrote: I agree with all of this. AGar, if this is like our newbie game together you really need to pull something together to make me believe you are town like you did in that game. I thought you learned from there that being defeatist gets you nowhere. You're being ten times worse here (with less OMGUSing) and it makes me really uncomfortable...and leaves pretty much no choice but ot lynch you.