Mini 892 - Mayor Mafia (GAME OVER)

[MonkeyMan576]

What happens if the person I investigate ends up dead? What should I do? Lie? Decline to report it? Resign to being lynched?

I'm not doubting Socrates is town, but I am doubting weather he should be mayor.

Unsupport: Socrates

[SaintKerrigan]

SaintKerrigan, You have twice asked Reckoner why Kyle is scummy, but you have neither asked me why nor have you presented your own perspective on his play.

Sorry about not answering this earlier. The reason I've been asking primarily xReckonerx about his Kyle vote is because I don't recall seeing a vocally-stated reason (or if there was one it didn't stick out to me), so I've been inquiring xReck in order to try and see what he considers Kyle scummy for.

The reason for me not asking you this same question, Socrates, is because you've been fairly clear on why you're voting Kyle. Thus, no explanation is required.

As for my opinion on Kyle...my general impression of him has been newb town so far, but it's been awhile since I've felt fully on top of this game, so that might not be an accurate read. I still owe everyone a reread, and once it's done, I'll post my thoughts.

@ Monkey: Well, you're probably going to draw a ton of fire tomorrow (pending you don't get lynched today or NKed) no matter what investigative result you give us. So if you are who you claim you are, just tell the truth.

[SerialClergyman]

You investigate dead man, you get lynched.

If a cop comes forward with innocent on him, I'm lynching him anyway, to be hoenst. 2 cops means sanity is a definite problem and I don't see there being two cops around. I think that's even a likely scenario for godfather.

[Socrates]

What happens if the person I investigate ends up dead? What should I do? Lie? Decline to report it? Resign to being lynched?

I'm not doubting Socrates is town, but I am doubting weather he should be mayor.

Unsupport: Socrates

If a cop is investigating people that are likely NK targets they R DOIN IT RONG.

[Socrates]

And Monkey, if you are a cop, and you do investigate the NK, and then you lie about it, I swear to god I will push a policy lynch on you in every game we play together from then on and never let up no matter how obviously town you are.

[kyle99]

What happens if the person I investigate ends up dead? What should I do? Lie? Decline to report it? Resign to being lynched?

I'm not doubting Socrates is town, but I am doubting weather he should be mayor.

Unsupport: Socrates

If a cop is investigating people that are likely NK targets they R DOIN IT RONG.

What qualities do you think a mayor should have, and what reasons did you have for unsupporting Socrates? Who is your second choice for mayor?

[MonkeyMan576]

That's really nice of you Socrates...but you are not giving me much incentive to truthfully report an investigated NK if I am going to get lynched no matter what.

Of course, I already know who I plan on investigating, but I have no control over who scum NK's, the idea that scum only kill obvious NK targets is rather poor logic.

So basically, all scum needs to do is guess who I am going to investigate to ensure a power roll gets lynched. Great town play(sarcasm).

[charter]

Why we should lynch Monkeyman today and not delay it:
If he gets roleblocked, we're going to lynch him. No gain.
If he investigates the dead guy, we're going to lynch him. No gain.
If he gets an innocent, we're going to lynch him. Person get's NKed the next night. Barely any gain.
If he gets a guilty, we'll have to discuss whether we lynch him. Reasonable gain.

By letting him live, we're really just lynching someone not as scummy instead of him for a slim chance of any payoff.

[MonkeyMan576]

What happens if the person I investigate ends up dead? What should I do? Lie? Decline to report it? Resign to being lynched?

I'm not doubting Socrates is town, but I am doubting weather he should be mayor.

Unsupport: Socrates

If a cop is investigating people that are likely NK targets they R DOIN IT RONG.

What qualities do you think a mayor should have, and what reasons did you have for unsupporting Socrates? Who is your second choice for mayor?

I think the mayor should , be likely or obvtown, be a good scumhunter, and show good logic and decisionmaking skills.

Saying that you are going to lynch a claimed cop no matter what on day 2 is pretty poor play. If that is the case then you should just lynch them on day one and not waste the time. I could forsee a scenario where a lot of scum hunting time is wasted on people who disagree with the mayor on this issue.

My second choice at this point would be either SC or MIC, both exhibit the characteristics I listed above to a fairly high degree.

[SerialClergyman]

charter - you left out the possibility of him getting NKed (significant benefit), Hoopla being scum (massive benefit), keeping him around on an innocent or guilty result (controversial) and the benefit of him drawing a block (minor benefit)

If you say the cop is only as good as a vanilla townie, then the roleblocker is only as good as a goon.

[MichelSableheart]

Fifteenth support count of day 1:

charter (0)

kyle99 (1)

Hoopla

Moai Interceptor Cannons (0)

Debonair Danny DiPietro (0)

SerialClergyman (0)

Hoopla (1)

SerialClergyman

* Socrates (5)

Socrates, charter, Col.Cathart, kyle99, Moai Interceptor Cannons

MonkeyMan576 (1)

Debonair Danny DiPietro

xRECKONERx (0)

nhammen (2)

nhammen, xRECKONERx

Col.Cathart (0)

SaintKerrigan (0)

Not supporting anyone (2)

SaintKerrigan, MonkeyMan576

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to elect someone as mayor.

an * marks who would become mayor if the day ended right now.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fifteenth vote count of day 1:

charter (0)

kyle99 (3)

xRECKONERx, Socrates, nhammen

Moai Interceptor Cannons (0)

Debonair Danny DiPietro (0)

SerialClergyman (1)

Hoopla

Hoopla (3)

SerialClergyman, Moai Interceptor Cannons, MonkeyMan576

Socrates (0)

MonkeyMan576 (5)

Col.Cathart, kyle99, SaintKerrigan, Debonair Danny DiPietro, charter

xRECKONERx (0)

nhammen (0)

Col.Cathart (0)

SaintKerrigan (0)

Not voting anyone (0)

With 13 votes available, it takes 7 votes to lynch someone. However, noone can be lynched before a mayor is elected.

[Hoopla]

Why is Hoopla voting for Serial?

Hoopla has pulled a giant 360, from initially thinking Monkeyman is more likely to claim cop as cop than scum, to disagreeing with lynching him day one, then self preservation voting him, to now arguing about how his role is useless and we should lynch him anyway.

I already outlined my reasons for voting SC. I had two posts about it.

I don't think it's a 360 - to be honest I'm still unsure what the correct play is with this. I can see valid arguments both ways. I'm siding with lynching him now to prevent my own.

[charter]

No, I mean, what is the purpose behind voting for Serial? No one else seems to be suspicious of him, and your reasons are weak and you're not trying to convince anyone else he's scum.

Serial, I'm pretty sure that Monkey will be just as scummy, regardless of who we lynch today and what they flip. I can't picture anyone flipping scum that would somehow clear Monkeyman. If he gets NK'ed, then that's about the only benefit other than him being sane and getting a guilty. I don't think it's worth chancing it, but if that's what we have to do, then that's what we have to do.

[xRECKONERx]

Charter's list assumes those are the only outcomes. It definitely pings my scumdar that he's creating false dilemmas in order to get a claimed cop lynched.

[SaintKerrigan]

Unvote: MonkeyMan576. Vote: xRECKONERx.

[Col.Cathart]

If you say the cop is only as good as a vanilla townie, then the roleblocker is only as good as a goon.

No, not really. Roleblocker IS making his role perfectly in this case (stopping the town aligned power role), while cop not. And that's the point.

Anyway, I think most of us are agreeing, that Monkey should be lynched at some point (at least, it looks like it from several players behavior). The question is - now or later? I tried to analyze pros and cons of both situations... And I still think, we should lynch Monkey today.

In case, we'll lynch him today:

- Boom or Bust. Fakeclaiming scum or a Cop (IMO first option is still more likely)
- Most importantly, we have the answer we wanted for 'was his claim real?' question.

In case we'll lynch him, let's say, tomorrow:

- We'll lynch someone else today. This is questionable, as we may hit/mislynch just as well as Monkey, but I still think there's no other person with as good chance of being scum as Monkey, except maybe Reck.

In my opinion, Monkey is really the last possible target for NK, because of his WIFOM and confusion potential alone. So I wont consider this possibility. Feel free to do include it in your own analyze though. Now:

- Monkey reveals his result tomorrow. Someone blocked him. What now? Did he lied about it? Or did someone really blocked him? At this point, probably the town will lynch him anyway, and we'll be at the same point, as we would be if we would lynch Monkey on D1, but with one more hit/mislynch and one more NK.

OR

- Monkey reveals his result tomorrow. He investigated someone who died tonight. Yeah right, town will lynch him anyway, and we'll be at the same point, as we would be if we would lynch Monkey on D1, but with one more hit/mislynch and one more NK.

OR

- Monkey reveals his result tomorrow. He has an innocent report. The town will probably lynch him anyway. If Monkey fakeclaimed - WIFOM ensues. If not - confirmed townie grabs the NK. Awful situation both ways.

OR

- Monkey reveals his result tomorrow. He has a guilty report. The town will probably lynch him anyway. If he fakeclaimed - WIFOM ensues. If not - Yay, we got one. This is slightly better option that other three, but there's too many 'if' (IF Monkey is a cop, and IF he'll have a guilty result) for me to go with this option.

tl;dr version

: Instead of going with very complicated and confusing way which can give us huge amount of questions, and almost no answers, I'd rather take simpler way, which give us one definite YES/NO answer to Monkey's claim.

[nhammen]

You can see his arguments? You guess? Do you think the Kyle argument is stronger than the hoopla argument?

The argument against Hoopla is that his arguments are crap.
The argument against kyle is that he has been active lurking AND his arguments are crap.
So kyle comes out scummier. Although, if Hoopla doesn't answer my question, I could very easily switch right back!

YUK. Scummy.

IF Hoopla THEN nhammen.

Explain. I was just commenting that if when the game ends, it turns out that Hoopla is scum, then I'll be mightily pissed that I allowed myself to be convinced by this. Also, what's with the IF THEN? That looks like trying to set up a quicklynch.

BTW:

Support Socrates

nhammen, letting Monkeyman live to "find out if we have a roleblocker" is such a horrible idea.

No, I was saying that if there's a roleblocker, we can find this out. That's not the reason we keep him alive. We keep him alive to absorb the Mafia kill or block and to possibly get a result. He absorbs what the Mafia throw at us. THAT's why we keep him alive.

Hoopla has pulled a giant 360, from initially thinking Monkeyman is more likely to claim cop as cop than scum, to disagreeing with lynching him day one, then self preservation voting him, to now arguing about how his role is useless and we should lynch him anyway.

Yeah, I want an answer from him about this. Oh, looks like we got one. Yeah, I think kyle is scummier.

[charter]

Ok, this has been discussed, it's clear that no one is going to change their mind.

xRECKONERx, Socrates, nhammen, Hoopla, SerialClergyman, Moai Interceptor Cannons: are any of you going to vote Monkey today?

If not, then I'm dropping Monkey and turning my attention elsewhere.

[MonkeyMan576]

Charter reminds me of the 12th Juror on 12 Angry Men...

[xRECKONERx]

No, I am not voting Monkey today. SaintKerrigan's vote is hawt. I suggest more like that.

[SerialClergyman]

No, not really. Roleblocker IS making his role perfectly in this case (stopping the town aligned power role), while cop not. And that's the point.

Couldn't be more irrelevent. If there's a cop that the blocker is blocking - they both cancel each other out. If there's no cop, then the blocker is free to try to disrupt any other PRs.

Charter, I'm not voting Monkey, although I'm pretty sure Hoopla will as any alignment.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Also, what's with the IF THEN? That looks like trying to set up a quicklynch.

IF Hoopla flips scum, THEN you're next up for the lynch. That's how I interpreted it. There's no way Serial's setting up a quicklynch, because then Serial has to be scum, Hoopla has to be NOT scum, and the IF/THEN argument on you dissolves into pretty little butterflies. Or do you know that Hoopla will flip scum?

Moai Interceptor Cannons: are any of you going to vote Monkey today?

No not really. Now join the Hoopla wagon please?

[SaintKerrigan]

xReck, WHY ARE YOU VOTING FOR KYLE? STOP DODGING THE QUESTION ALREADY!!!

(Sorry for the all caps, but I'm frustrated that you haven't answered this question yet even though I've asked it multiple times.)

[xRECKONERx]

Oh, shit, that's right. I totally forgot about that. >.> Here we go:

Semi-PBPA on kyle99

0: No-content comment on the picture of us all holding a casket. Whatever. I made an irrelevant comment about it too, nothing flag-raising here.

1: Blatantly says he'll just go with whatever the majority thinks. Easy target for scum to manipulate, and also means he won't be doing any active scum/townhunting.

2: Supports hoopla

because he's not sure who would be the best mayor

. So, uh, why hoopla, then? Slight scumvibe here.

3: Promises to be more decisive. Null.

4: Puts the claimed cop at L-1 after supporting Socrates (because he thinks Socrates knows what he's doing >.>). Weak reasoning for a support vote PLUS putting the claimed cop at L-1 after just admitting he doesn't know if he wants to vote for MM yet? Big scumvibe. PING!

5: Says his suspects are MM for claiming cop, nhammen for believing the claim, and DDD for different meta from the newbie game. Says DDD isn't saying anything of importance. I slightly disagree, but his first two suspects are enough to hit my scumdar even more.

6: Says his MM vote was the best vote for the time being. How about NO vote? Why did you HAVE to put the claimed cop at L1?

7: Asks for vote count. After being pressured, it seems like a way to avoid prods/appear "helpful". Newbscum tactic ahoy!

8: Says I'm his top suspect.... doesn't say why. Just turns the question back on nhammen.

9: Says Serial is a clueless townie, and MIC seems scummy. NO SUPPORT/CONTENT.

10: Misreps SC by saying he wants to lynch six people and hasn't made any posts of value. That's the second time he has claimed someone has made no posts of value (DDD and SC). Quite the hypocritical claim.

And by this point, you can see why I'm voting him. He goes on to do more scummy things, but here are just the highlights.

15: Parrots SaintKerrigan and basically says "I don't know who is scum, because it could be anyone". Thanks, Einstein.

17: Once again states that he doesn't believe Monkey's claim... why, again? Oh, right. We don't know.

19: This post literally is so confusing and circular I got a headache from trying to decipher it. More scummy b/s.

20: "Hey, guys! Look how helpful I am, pointing out the support/vote count!"

25: Asks Socrates what qualities he looks for in a mayor and who his top two choices are.

In summary: he has not posted anything of content, has made empty claims with nothing to back them up, and seems to be posting just enough to fly under the radar without ACTUALLY having to back anything up.

MORE KYLE VOTES NOW PLZ

[MonkeyMan576]

Reck makes some good observations. My current likely scum team is Hoopla, and nhammen and Kyle