God, I really don't care at this point, but stupid site rules.
Let's start at the beginning.
I maintain that charlatown would have no reason to track me over other players, or even be a Tracker at all. My reasoning is as follows.
1. Charlatan's previous read on me was town.
I've given a list of posts related to me in 748. Those posts point to a charlatan town read on me. I say this because charlatan agrees with my PoV on several issues that people are attacking me over, and even goes so far as to defend me in a couple cases. In addition, he had to create a case today, meaning he didn't have one before. It makes no sense from a town perspective to track another town player.
2. Charlatan claimed a second suspect towards the end of Day 2.
charlatan wrote:1) ODDin.
2) Amished/Albert B. Rampage.
Given the town's poor lynching record, it makes far more sense for charlatown to target a scum suspect in order to get a good lynch the next day. The town wasn't in a position where we could afford experimental tracks to find that last remaining elusive scum player.
3. A track doesn't prove alignment in almost all cases.
Charlatan claims, despite posts contradicting this stance in-thread, that my read was "murky".
charlatan wrote:I thought I could solidify my murky read on you with a track.
The problem is that all kinds of things have to fall into place for a track to prove alignment. I would have to be scum
and
be the scum player to do the kill
and
not have the target be visited by a townie PR in order for this to work. In reality this is a crappy justification manufactured to fit the circumstances.
However, let's pretend for a moment that charlatan's just a major optimist and thinks that miracles happen. So why not...
charlatan wrote:I find this pretty interesting, because I'm having a hard time getting a handle on Scien this game, too, and I find this comment surprising.
...track Scien, who charlatan actually claims to have a "murky" read on? (sidenote: Why was it so hard to get a handle on Scien this game when charlatan already had a track on Scien, and charlatan was using tracks to figure out alignments?)
4. A townie PR with a guilty wouldn't allow massclaim to happen.
Charlatan was for a massclaim:
charlatan wrote:I agree with [massclaim], and I also think that it should probably be done soon, unless someone has serious and well reasoned objections.
Charlatan himself as a townie PR with a guilty would have well reasoned objections to massclaim: He would want to protect any other potential PRs from claiming and becoming targets. The correct play for our claimed Tracker would be to wagon me into oblivion and claim his info if necessary.
---
Now, to respond to his case.
charlatan wrote:Firstly, even had I not gotten a track result on him, I would have held him accountable for his AGar vote, and I'm frankly surprised it's not problematic to anyone else.
My AGar vote came after I reread the game, then reread people in isolation. I stated both in thread.
Yes, AGar was hollow. His scum self is highly guarded and defensive, his town self is far more carefree and offensive. In this game he was acting carefree-ish but I didn't see him push at anyone, just respond to posts. I felt like he was attempting to fabricate his townie meta, which he knew I was aware of. Maybe he was just burned out too.
charlatan wrote:His Sando hammer is particularly convenient; he has mentioned him in the margins of his play throughout the day in passing, and included him in a scum list along with ODDin and Troll, but despite his apparently high level of suspicion does not actually say a single word to Sando or respond to anything Sando has to say even once during the day.
1. There was nothing "convenient" about the hammer. It was done at deadline. I suppose your AGar hammer was convenient as well?
2. There were others pressuring him. They didn't need my help. You're arguing it's bad for the town to expand its scope?
charlatan wrote:I would argue that Zito was, in a sense, attached to the hip to SC at this point, and the nature of their interaction would require that he be involved with SC in upcoming days as well.
I had a town read on SC. Go back and look. And ODDin was the only one pursuing the BS point about the wagon, and I was ignoring him. Go back and look at that too. I wasn't "attached" at all.
charlatan wrote:In my experience, it is not uncommon for scum to want to whack someone in a position like that, as it frees them up to pursue other avenues of attack.
I was already attacking someone else. This is just false.
charlatan wrote:I thought his Scien interaction the next day was a little shakey, way too ready to support WIFOM in a manner that deflects suspicion:
People love to throw WIFOM around.
I made an off-comment about the NK. It was my interpretatin of what the NK was supposed to mean. For some reason talking about NKs is absolutely taboo on this site and I don't understand why. Until I do I reject the concept as stupid.
charlatan wrote:What's more important here are the living players. His interaction with Troll is something everyone should be looking at, especially as it feels a bit like spinning his wheels. Troll is something of a town leader, and Zito's accusations against him can be mostly boiled down to "you're fence-sitting."
Yes, everyone should be paying attention to Troll. He's not a town leader, he's sitting back and watching events just happen. If he's not scum he's 3rd party.
Basically, I want everyone to reread this case and look at the amount of speculation is in here, especially the "more important" part about living players which only mentions Troll and is a bunch of guessing about our alignments.
There's questions out there, hang on.