Mafia 39: Back to Gambits - Game over!

[vikingfan]

/conmirf

[vikingfan]

random vote ENYH

Here's a humble request to the mod: can you eliminate the rule that nights MUST last the whole 3 days? We've already got 36 hours of twilight, but add that onto the 3 days and that means nights will last almost a week. Plus, we had confirms in almost 24 hours and all but one night choice in almost that amount of time. Now, some nights people may take the full time, and that's fine. But I'm just saying that the rule can get really annoying in the endgame when say 4 people are left and there's only one or two night choices to be made.

If the mod doesn't want to, or if other players don't agree with me, that's fine. I just thought I'd bring it up.

[vikingfan]

Ah, OK. It just seems like too much of a detriment, especially in the late game when it's not likely that all that much discussion will be required.

Besides, night 1, it did take only 24 hours for pretty much everyone. But whatever. Moving on.

[vikingfan]

True, true. In the interest of the town, it may be a good idea to pick him.

My only question might be that since BJ is mentioning it himself, he's likely not scum-scum wouldn't offer themselves up so easily. But given the same thing, he's likely not a power role for the same reason.

Any reason why we shouldn't go this route that I'm missing?

[vikingfan]

Not to be too contrary, but the bookie

could

contribute a LOT towards getting someone lynched.

One solution to the 3 day requirement-- the mod can have the masons send in a note when they feel they've discussed enough. The others can withhold their choice until they are finished.

As to how much discussion is required... there should be a lot of discussion. Maybe not night 1, but definitely on later nights there should be.

I like this. I was not trying to eliminate or shorten discussion every single night of this game for those 3 groups-rather I just don't think it'll take 3 days every single time. If Cad and others are fine with this, I am too.

[vikingfan]

Well, the scum would probably decide to kill him and so we would lose knowing what he is (though that may be good if he's revealed to not be scum).

The problem I have with it is that it automatically locks us into a particular choice tomorrow, which I don't like. Too much can happen between now and then.

[vikingfan]

Agreed with dybeck.

I'm going to

FOS jeep

for way too strong of a response, especially day 1. I could vote, but I want to hear more from jeep before/if I do.

[vikingfan]

I also like this one.

unvote

vote STD

[vikingfan]

Maybe I missed it but what's the logic behind a dybeck wagon?

[vikingfan]

I'm going to

unvote STD

but I'm still going to

FOS STD

. The way he's acting makes me think he's either A) a power pro-town role, or B)scum trying to avoid making a claim. I'm not sure which so I'll leave it for now.

And I'll go with

Vote dybeck

for all the reasons already stated.

[vikingfan]

All right, here's an analysis of the mass claim idea after looking at the role list.

We have 4 absolutely key protown roles (both Angels and both Seer and Sorcererl). We have no doctors other than the Archangel and Sorcerer (and that's only if they choose not to resurrect. Thus, those 4 roles are particularly key to not being lost-they are our only way to tell, apart from day lynches, who is telling the truth and who should be saved/resurrected. There are other roles that can investigate (like the bookie), but the circumstances needed to produce it can be far-fetched.

Now, here's the key. To me, the day lynches should be used to produce the most information about as many people as possible-they are our only real way of knowing things (even the seer and Angel can be counterclaimed). Now, if there's multiple claims, it serves scum well to kill counterclaimers, ONLY if they think one of them is the Judas/Saulus/Vampire. Then later, somebody can resurrect them and everyone might think that they're clear since they weren't revealed as scum.

The real trick is if 2 scum claim a dead role (which singly is improbable, but is quite possible with at least 9 roles inclined to lie about their roles). This is especially true if they claim one of the 4 key power roles. We lynch one of the scum and everyone might assume that the other person was telling the truth. The key that could help us here, though, is that the other team of scum won't know that so they can go after him.

In any case, though, mass claim is almost bound to make us lose our 4 power roles. It'll get us some scum, but it will greatly benefit the scum who can claim successfully and make it a long way to the endgame.

Did I miss anything?

[vikingfan]

Did I miss anything?

There is a possible scenario in which we specify that

no one

claims the doctor roles, we specifically state that they claim some other role (presumably townie), and demand that doctor claims are never made. It would keep the scum in the dark as much as the town as to whether or not the docs were dead, and leave it dicey as to whether or not it's "safe" to kill cops. .

But doesn't that eliminate the whole idea of a mass claim? Plus, that just ups the number of double claims- and it makes it REALLY sticky to clear things out. After all, if the Sorcerer is pinned, does he really want to say "Hey, guys, I'm the Sorcerer." Or, alternatively, a scum could, when pressed, claim one of those doctor roles and sail by if no doctor with that role is alive to counter him (though the other scum group would go after him soon enough).

It just seems like a bad idea to me at this point in time.

[vikingfan]

It doesn't matter. The other is going to get killed by the opposing family.

-JEEP

Why would they? It makes better sense for the scum family to pick someone else to kill since STD (assuming dybeck is lynched) will be heavily targeted for a lynch tomorrow.

Besides, assuming we haven't lost that role, the vig can always go after STD tonight.

[vikingfan]

Generally, it's one of those things that just happens. But in this game, I'd be some kind of upset.

-JEEP

Why 'in this game'?

[vikingfan]

Why? Remember, in this game, we have resurrections. If you die (unless you're mafia or werewolf), there's a moderate possibility you'll be brought back eventually.

Unless of course, you're the Sorcerer or Archangel, in which case you would probably be screwed.

[vikingfan]

I'm not at all convinced of dybeck's innocence, but odds are, if he's scum, either mafia or werewolves will go after him tonight, so he'll probably be dead in the morning. Given that, if he's revealed as scum tonight, then we'll know the real Sorcerer is alive and well. If not, we know he was probably telling the truth. So

unvote dybeck

.

[vikingfan]

I'm not at all convinced of dybeck's innocence, but odds are, if he's scum, either mafia or werewolves will go after him tonight, so he'll probably be dead in the morning. Given that, if he's revealed as scum tonight, then we'll know the real Sorcerer is alive and well. If not, we know he was probably telling the truth. So unvote dybeck.

Why will we know that the real Sorcerer is alive and well? If dybeck is revealed as scum, then we'll know he wasn't the Sorcerer, but how does that preclude the possibility that one of the already dead players was the Sorcerer?

I realized that later after the post, but obviously we won't know that. What we will know in that scenario is that dybeck was lying scum and that there's a chance we still have our Sorcerer with us. If he dies and he's not revealed as scum, then it's a good possibility we lost him (though not for sure, he could still be the Judas, Saulus, or Vampire).

This scenario, BTW, is why I'm not trusting dybeck-we've got 9 roles likely to lie about their roles and only 15 roles left, which means a lot of roles will be claimed. Given that, the odds just seem high that we hit the actual Sorcerer, rather than a scum. But since, as outlined before, scum will probably go after him, I'll let him be for now.

And since I still like the STD vote for reasons mentioned earlier, I'll

vote STD

[vikingfan]

The following players haven't posted since July:

big_k: July 26.
MOS: July 19.

Prods, please?

[vikingfan]

That should say, in this thread, since July.

[vikingfan]

Agreed-STD just strikes me as a scum desperate to save himself at this point.

[vikingfan]

I'm still happy with my STD vote- things seem to be dragging. Hopefully the start of the week will get this game back up and running.

[vikingfan]

Hmm, what are the odds that we hit BOTH the Sorcerer and the Angel for interrogation? I doubt it. Besides, we've got 9 scum- pretty much every role will be claimed twice, including the influential roles like these.

Give us your result- you investigated last night, didn't you?

[vikingfan]

I doubt that, hez- he won't get a free ride because it makes sense for the mafia/ werewolves to go after him. That's why it makes sense to let dybeck live for now-he's probably a target tonight, even if he is a member of one scum group. For the scum, the more power roles/opposing scum they can kill, the better, so we need to use this to our advantage for things like testing claims-i.e. dybeck.

[vikingfan]

I agree with you, lucky. That's why I'm leaving my vote on STD. Since daykills are our only CONFIRMED source of info about roles (other than mafia/wolves dying at night), it makes sense to get the most info possible therefore out of them. Right now, STD makes the most sense for that.

Where are our nonvoters? Either put the vote on STD or put it on someone who you do find suspicious (and explain why of course).

[vikingfan]

Um-why would we have a counterclaim? A counterclaim would be suicidal for the real Angel-and there's no motivation right now for him to do so.

FOS Lucky

In this game, lack of counterclaims does not mean we can assume the person is telling the truth-there's good reasoning for not doing so- A)real person is dead, and B)real role is lying low so they can gain more information.

[vikingfan]

Thanks for the encouragement- but the reason why I made it an FOS was because it just seemed to me like you were too quick to move to the conclusion that STD was telling the truth when we can't assume it until he's daykilled. That's why I'm keeping my vote on him. I still like that one best though for the other reason that I don't think it's likely that we can get enough people to move to another wagon- and I'm not eager to expose too many people Day 1(or risk it anyway if we interrogate a pro-town instead of scum).

Regardless, when we actually move into Day 2, we should have a lot of useful info to use.

[vikingfan]

That's why I'd vote to have our vig kill BJ (as an example) and choose to have our bookie select BJ as a nightkill victim.

In any case, this kind of thing seems better for tomorrow when we have more info.

[vikingfan]

I'm sticking with STD. His lynch, IMO, will tell us the most, and that's what I'm basing my decision on.

[vikingfan]

Vote count?

[vikingfan]

Um- it's suicidal for the real Angel to counterclaim. Counterclaiming only helps the scum because they can go after the real Angel. It seems like you're asking for a counterclaim when such a thing cannot help the town, especially Day 1.

FOS BabyJesus

[vikingfan]

NO THANK YOU!

It seems that way too many people are wanting a counterclaim day 1. Let me reiterate: it is a stupid idea! It has NO value for the town. Say Blackberry's right and the archangel protects him. That does several useless things A)it ties up the Archangel indefinitely, B) it lets the scum know to make targets elsewhere, C) we still can't tell if jeep's telling the truth, and most importantly D)scum from the OTHER party can kill jeep.

And I should add E)trading off a scum for a cop(that finds half our scum) is a bad trade at this point in time when we still have 8 more scum to find! We have to play this game long-range. I've already got a long list of people I want to go after day 2 that are playing scummily and no doubt so do others. But STD, today, gives us the most information-and if he proves to be mafia or werewolf, that's going to give us information since others would have known who he was and might have tried to protect him.

This is not to say that a claim by the angel/seer is always bad, but it's a bad idea at this point in time.

And Pooky, there's more than enough to analyze-we've got 15 pages!

[vikingfan]

Why should they? The wolves need to kill off everyone else, town, scum, etc. Besides, if they think that the person who says they're the angel is scum, they'll go after him, nothing more is required.

I didn't suggest that the wolves kill an Angel, but we can't just assume that they won't either- they're going to make a kill anyway, so it makes sense for them. The best way as town to play is to try to anticipate scum's moves and respond accordingly.

And, BTW, I don't believe STD- I think he's scum. I also find it strange that BJ confirmed his vote for STD and is now saying that he's not so sure STD is scum. Any reasoning for this logic, BJ?

[vikingfan]

Yep, I agree with jeep.

I realize the Angel could die tonight- that's one of the risks we take. But here's the thing-EVERY role will be claimed twice because there are so many scum and so few roles to claim. There are 9 scum and only one true Angel. That means the odds are one in ten that STD is telling the truth. I'm willing to take those odds.

[vikingfan]

Not at all, BJ. We're going to need to watch those claims much more carefully as the day goes on, but on day 1, STD hasn't played the best (he's admitted as much himself), he's spoken quite a bit already, and has spoken some more after his claim. He's received plenty of chances to speak.

And you didn't answer my question as to why you believe STD now when you didn't when he first claimed. Explain that please.

[vikingfan]

I think we need some prods- we've got some people running under the radar right now that shouldn't be allowed to slip under the radar. We need people contributing considering we've got a deadline in place.

kristocker- August 3.
Assasin-August 2
ENYH-August 5
MOS should be replaced-I think we've had him prodded twice now. July 19.
Pariah- August 1.

[vikingfan]

And you didn't answer my question as to why you believe STD now when you didn't when he first claimed. Explain that please.

no

Why?

[vikingfan]

BTW, people, we currently have 3 days to get a lynch. Normally that might be OK, but the deadline hits after the weekend, and a lot of people don't post then. We need to have a lynch-if people aren't posting and don't put on the votes to create a lynch, it's going to be quite bad for the town.

Cadmium, if there is no lynching majority, do we still get a lynch at deadline?

[vikingfan]

Ah, OK, in that case, forget it.

[vikingfan]

Well, Blackberry, scum will just go after you now- it makes good sense for scum to go after those kind of roles. This is exactly why I didn't want this happening- we're going to lose a lot of useful roles this way.

[vikingfan]

As mentioned above, I think prodding of people/replacing is necessary for certain people- Pariah, MOS, etc, that I mentioned in an earlier post. I don't want these people to fly under the radar for nonposting.

Why are you harmless, Blackberry? Assuming you're telling the truth, you're confirmed. It's in the interest of scum to kill everyone who claims a power role like mason, regardless of whether they're telling the truth-either that person is scum or a valuable role. As a mason (assuming you're telling the truth), you know 2 other people who are innocent. Thus, if you tell who they are, the scum will go after them as well to clear off people.

Only a few people here are going along with your line of reasoning regarding claims-jeep and others like lucky agree with me. Don't assume you're the majority-we've got 5 people right now who aren't posting. Right now, I don't buy your line of thinking regarding claims at all.

[vikingfan]

Hi vikingfan,

We are lyching you today. Care to make last words? tia.

-B

??? What the heck are you talking about? I've only got 2 votes, not even close to 12.

[vikingfan]

You don't lynch a claimed cop just because "omg lyk we have 2 lynhc sum1!!!!one!1". That's silly.

oddly enough I agree with roland....this is stupid. Right now we have roland who is confirmed as not a mason...which in my mind gives him a greater chance of being scum then another random runup.

We'll sort out STD later, seriously on day one we don;t need to take a chance on lynching a claimed angel. Later on, sure, not this early though.

There are two schools of thought I've noticed here. A)mass claim and hope we figure out who's lying and who's telling the truth, and B)don't mass claim as it'll give the scum additional info and make us lose power roles.

Seriously, if we subscribe to your logic that we shouldn't lynch power roles like the Angel, then it makes it a perfect role to claim.

I could agree with your thought that roland's not mason, except that it seems a little WIFOM- sure, roland could say that, but he also might not want to proclaim himself as a mason either so he posts that way.

I think you're also making an error in judgment in assuming all people with my logic are scum-I think it's quite possible we have scum on both sides of the aisle here.

In any case, there are still several players who aren't posting and are lurking such as Pariah, etc. How about a prod/replacement.

[vikingfan]

I'm actually thinking about lynching BabyJesus today. He had some very inconsistent behavior yesterday. First he said I dispute this when STD tried to pull off his fake claim of being a mafia and confirmed his vote. Then he changed his mind and tried to protect STD. When I asked him why, he refused.

vote babyjesus

.

And I agree- it's not good for the vig to get too trigger-happy.

[vikingfan]

dybeck, I think you call jeep an "obvious target" because he was right about you being scum.

Blackberry, tough to judge. I think it is OK to reveal a dead mason. Obviously you shouldn't say anything that could give hints about live ones. No reason to hold back good strategic insights, though.

I agree with SpeedyKQ- give us the dead mason and what you talked about but don't give us names, at least for now.

[vikingfan]

Blackberry, you screwed up. It's supposed to be b not v in the first set of brackets.

In any case, I agree.

unvote

vote dybeck

[vikingfan]

No problem, wasn't trying to criticize you- just letting you know in case you'd missed your mistake.

[vikingfan]

Ah, OK, that makes sense. That was why you were so high on my scumdar- your play just didn't seem consistent. Now I understand.

[vikingfan]

roland- he already did. Sorcerer as I recall.

[vikingfan]

MOS- you were already replaced.

As for myself, I agree 100% with SpeedyKQ.

And I should note that I'm moving back to college this weekend, so I'll have limited access over the weekend until sometime Monday night.

[vikingfan]

dybeck is dead- we're currently waiting for the mod.

[vikingfan]

And they've started killing eachother...excellent!

If I'm not mistaken, this leaves us with one mafia and one werewolf with the possibility of a vampire resurrection making it two werewolves. Also, there's Saulus, but he won't be doing any killing.

My initial thought is that it could be a good idea for the archangel/sorcerer not to resurrect anyone, since that'd make it impossible for the vampire to come back 'unnoticed'. Also, attempting a resurrection means risking their own lives, so in my opinion, archangel/sorceror should be use their protection ability from now on. Any thoughts on this?

Couple things on this. First, the Vampire could still be alive- but if he is, then that's OK so long as he isn't nightkilled- the OP is very specific that he wins with the civilians if he isn't nightkilled or resurrects himself too late.

We do need to keep an eye for the Saulus-it's possible that we can kill all of the mafia and werewolves but get into trouble if he is all we have left. But hopefully he's already dead.

I hesitate on the resurrecting anyone- after all, the ONLY people we have to fear are the Saulus and Vampire. That's pretty low odds and we might be able to get a good player back- if, for example, the Seer's dead already and we resurrect him, then that helps us a ton in finding some of the remaining scum. On the other hand, if we eliminate the resurrection policy, it helps us out a good deal in that regard- but it also gives us a limited number of lynches and nights. Any thoughts on this?

And unless Speedy was our vig, it's clear our vig is still alive. What I'm wondering about is our bookie- the plan was that he bet on Fuldu's death. Fuldu's dead but we have no resurrection. That leads me to one of three conclusions- A) bookie didn't follow the plan, B) bookie is dead, or C) bookie made an investigation.

Any thoughts?

[vikingfan]

OK, I went back and looked at the OP and you're right- he would gain the ability tonight (assuming he's still alive). As such, that lets us try to do something very important- decide whether he should do a resurrection or investigate somebody. (this decision, of course, is null and void if he's dead) Any thoughts on which route we should take?

[vikingfan]

The only problem that I see with resurrecting Jeep is that the scum obviously know he's innocent too so he'll be an immediate target for death. It's true that the Archangel and Sorcerer could both protect him, but it's kind of high odds that both are still alive with the number of dead people we have.

That being said, I do agree with the move- it just seems like we might be doing all the work of resurrecting jeep, only to have him for a day before being nightkilled. I think we might be better off going the resurrection route- for an investigation to work, the bookie will have to announce his findings. This is OK, except for the fact that there's a good chance he'll find an innocent- I believe he would only find the mafia, werewolf, or Saulus (from reading the OP, it sounds like the vampire is considered innocent until he's resurrected). That's 3 out of 14, and it can be lower if the Saulus is already dead. Not good odds. Obviously, if he does find a scum, then the tradeoff of a bookie for a scum is a fair trade (assuming the bookie is killed the next night). But given the odds of finding a scum, resurrection seems the better route- except for the fact that the Vampire (if dead) could also use this route to come back.

Decisions, decisions...

[vikingfan]

The only problem that I see with resurrecting Jeep is that the scum obviously know he's innocent too so he'll be an immediate target for death. It's true that the Archangel and Sorcerer could both protect him, but it's kind of high odds that both are still alive with the number of dead people we have.

Did I miss something, or is adding confirmed townies to the mix a bad thing? Especially if the scum have to toy with whether or not he'll b protected, or whether or not they think they should go after someone else with a role, and so forth?

Not at all, I'm entirely in favor of bringing Jeep back- I just think it's likely he'll be killed pretty quickly once he is. True, there are protection issues- but I would expect the reward to be higher than the risk for the scum.

As for who looks scummy, I need to go back and reread the thread knowing what we know now.

[vikingfan]

Hello???? I think we have some lurkers. Here's everyone's last posting date:
Assasin: said he would be gone until Aug. 24. It's now almost Aug. 30. Prod.
Astronaut: Aug. 26.
BJ: Same as Astro.
Blakberry: 27.
Enigma: Said he'd be gone until the 3rd.
Max: 26.
PeaceBringer: Aug 21. Prod! And only one post, that being a vote for Dybeck. He's posted about 15-20 times since then, all on other games. That spells lurker. He has not, however, posted anywhere on scum since last Thursday.
Puzzle: 26.
Rolofwhite: 27.
SappVerde: 29. Posted asking what happened. Sapph, I would recommend just taking the time to read it from the start- it'll make a LOT more sense that way.
Nanook: 25, but said he'd get something in by the weekend.
Thesp: 27.
Thoth: 26.
VF: now

Off that list, PB looks the most suspicious, though I think he might just need replacing- we can't afford to lose a player for a week.

[vikingfan]

vote Vikingfan-

Idiot... I just joined the game replacing a lurker. I haven't posted anything on site for a couple days. I am on vacation in a hotel in dallas at the moment. So lighten up.

Hey, I wasn't trying to come down hard on anybody. I just noticed that there had been a total of two posts since Saturday- that seems a little slow. In any case, I had no idea that you were on vacation- but when you've made a total of one post, consisting of two words, and then don't post again for over a week, I think something at least NOTING it is warranted.

And as for my calling out everyone, I wasn't- just noting the days people last posted. Mine was a couple days ago, but I posted something like 4 times that day. I very rarely call out lurkers, so...

[vikingfan]

I did check-you had 15 other posts after your one post on this board, which I noted in my post. You had no mention of the fact you'd be gone in V/LA. What other conclusion am I supposed to draw?

[vikingfan]

In any case, PB is here now- and yes, I was aware that he replaced. My concern was more with the fact that he hadn't posted in more than a week on this thread. But now that's over and done with, so I'm moving on.

[vikingfan]

Yeah, I gotta

unvote

and

vote maximumum

. After further thought, it just appears the scummiest behavior out of everyone still alive for the reasons already mentioned.

[vikingfan]

unvote, vote assasin

You just voted someone who was replaced ...

As to Roland's claim, and I can't say that I believe/don't believe him. He only has innocent results which isn't hard to claim for mafia, but if he really is the seer and is killed, at least we know who the confirmed are. I believe him for the most part though, and can wait to see if he is of any use to the town for days still to come.

The only way we can know if he's telling the truth is if we lynch him- he could just as easily be the Judas, Saulus, or Vampire. Here's the thing though- if he is the last werewolf, then it's safe for him to claim seer since he has nothing to fear. Like someone else said though, I wouldn't be surprised if the seer is already dead.

Seer, though, could potentially be useful if a vampire resurrects himself the same night he's killed (we will know automatically that he's a vampire if he's already dead and resurrects himself later under this plan). But nevertheless, if this happens, then we would have two werewolves to look for and ROTW's chances of finding scum is upped significantly, as compared to if he'd just claimed Angel. Hmm, I need to think about this some more...

[vikingfan]

unvote

vote SapphireVerde

.

[vikingfan]

Who are you asking, ROTW?

[vikingfan]

Bleh, I'm tired of waiting for non-coming answers too but that's no reason to make a non-optimal move. The vote stays for pressure only : I want input and involvement, not blind lynch.

I'm really eager to hear Iammars's input, too. It's always good to get a fresh view on the road we are taking.

How long are you willing to wait? We've had TWO players now with the same role who are not posting. Lynching lurkers is sometimes a good play- I've hit scum with it more than once. And we're in an OK position lynchwise- we've got 2 more killing people left, plus a possible Vampire resurrection (who we'd lynch immediately) and the Saulus.

Still, doing so would probably make us lose 2 people at nighttime, so I do want to hear from SV.

[vikingfan]

Agreed but I'd still like a claim first and I found Assasin's case more damning.
Actually, in this respect, I'd like to have much more input from Iammars before going to night (and usually, I am the one pushing for the end of the day) :
- Who looks scummy to you ?
- Why ?

Once we get that and if SV hasn't reappeared in the meantime, I'd agree to lynching her but only once we've decided of a target for Maximumum.

I don't like the idea of picking a target for Maxi openly- it just invites a scum kill and then the info is pretty much worthless.

[vikingfan]

True, I hadn't thought of that-

Sapphire has posted both yesterday and Tuesday in different games, but not this one. This implies that she has picked up her prod- since Cadmium sent her the prod prior to Tuesday. In this case, I'm inclined to just lynch her- lynch all lurkers is sometimes a good policy in this case.

[vikingfan]

But here's the thing though- according to the mod in the OP, it will never be actually indicated who effected the execution. So if Maxi calls to execute Sapphire(for instance), then scum could kill Sapphire and we still wouldn't know if she's telling the truth.

More to the point, it works nicely as scum for her to call to kill Sapphire because then she can kill Sapphire in the night and claim her ability worked. It basically degenerates to WIFOM in that instance. Now, if there are FOUR kills tonight (assuming the vig is still alive and kills) then we know Maxi is telling the truth.

Also, the scum wouldn't give up a kill- the scum group would not KNOW for sure that Maxi is telling the truth; they're going to make a kill anyway so it could pay off for them to not confirm maxi.

Don't get me wrong, I think maxi should use her ability- I'm just trying to think through all the possibilities before we do. Any thoughts on my logic here? Or am I way off?

[vikingfan]

We'll know the identity of the victim if it's a mayor kill. It will just fizzle if Werewolves or Mafia kill the target before but we'll know about their intervention. The interest is that scums would have to go after a scummy person instead of a good-looking one to avoid Maximumum's confirmation.

I don't see how they would go after a scummy-looking person (short of cop confirmations). Scummy-looking people can be innocent too. On the other hand, if the scum let the claimed person be, then that lets them kill two other people (barring doc protections). And in that case, maxi would be confirmed (and probably die soon thereafter).

I agree- what exactly do you find scummy about my reasoning? I can't see how discussing all the possibilities of a possible course of action is scummy. I tossed my thoughts out there- if you don't agree wtih them, please explain why.

[vikingfan]

We did that once already- we've had two players with the role and neither has bothered to participate. More to the point, SV has posted in other threads and not this one (look at her posting history). I'm content with my vote.

[vikingfan]

Vikingfan is a solid choice for a mayor kill.

Why? Please explain.

[vikingfan]

I dunno- I just find it interesting how people are assuming that I am a 'good target' for a vig or mayor with no justification. I'd really like to know why so that I can sufficiently defend myself. BabyJesus has said simply because I'm on the list- well, with that reasoning, I can name him as a likely target or anybody else for that matter.

[vikingfan]

Enigma91 has not posted on this thread since August 26. I think a prod is in order- though possibly enigma could be used as a mayor or vig kill. More to the point, he has posted NUMEROUS times in other games- see his posting history.

Any thoughts on his absence? Either he's completely forgotten about this game or else he's lurking for no good reason.

[vikingfan]

Cadmium said he'd be back today (Monday) in V/LA. So I would expect prods/replacements soon.

If Enigma can't give a good reason for his absence and/or claim, I'd be fine with him as a mayor kill and lynch Sapphire. Though that still leaves the question of who to vig for the bookie to bet on- though if the bookie is dead (which we'll find out tonight) that plan will be void.

[vikingfan]

I know Fritzler will be active- it just seems that he's the best lynch for today due to the different factors listed above. But I'm going to

unvote

anyway so we can hear from King and pick a vig target.

[vikingfan]

No thank you, at least today. I'd like to keep our vig and bookie under wraps as long as possible so we can keep perpetuating the plan to bring back key plapyers like Jeep.

Mind you, I like the plan starting tomorrow, but I think we have enough scummy-looking players like Fritzler and Enigma to finish the day without a mass claim. Besides, if we have the Sorcerer and ArchAngel left, I'd really like to keep them hidden- it gives scum too much info on who to hit nightly, at least for tonight.

But tomorrow, I like the idea- we will know if our bookie is still alive, we'll have gotten rid of some scummy-looking players, and perhaps we can go from there.

Am I totally off here? It just seems to me that we give up too much for the info we might gain- there's a chance given how many dead people we have already and our current plan not to resurrect anybody to avoid a Vampire appearance that scum could claim a dead person's spot and survive the mass claim and meanwhile know who to kill because they will mostly know who's telling the truth.

[vikingfan]

I'm not sure I believe the mayor's claim, but I'm willing to try testing it. Otherwise I agree with you.

[vikingfan]

No one has countered the mayor's claim.

I don't know WHY, but I believe Roland's too... His choices, I don't know, as soon as I read it, it all seemed to fit and make sense, LOL. Maybe I'm just stupid, but for the moment I trust Roland's claim too.

Easy- the mayor is already dead, for instance.

[vikingfan]

If we don't hear anything from Enigma soon, I'd recommend him as a mayor target.

[vikingfan]

We can also have the vig kill Enigma- and if he doesn't post within 24 hours, that's just what I'm going to recommend. His extreme lurking (and still posting in other games!) doesn't sit well with me.

[vikingfan]

Where did the 'plan' come from? Until that post, I hadn't seen that that was even the plan.

I'm still awaiting Enigma-if he doesn't show up soon, I think he should be killed through the lynch, mayor, or vig.

[vikingfan]

All right, now it's just intentional lurking. Cadmium said he sent the prod on Monday- Enigma's already posted since then, which implies he's gotten the prod and not posted.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... ht=#223063

I don't care whether he dies by mayor or vig, but he's scummy enough in my eyes to warrant being killed.

[vikingfan]

Ah, in that case, scratch my earlier post- I was thinking he was intentionally lurking.

[vikingfan]

After thinking it over, I'm going to

Vote Iammars

. I just didn't like the play of his predecessor.

[vikingfan]

Two things I didn't like about Assassin (and I'm not really seeing any better candidates):

A)Declaring the mass role claim stupid WITHOUT providing reasoning. In general, I like any statement that definitive to have reasoning behind it (and I should have provided my own statement this morning but I was in a hurry so I'm providing it now). It smelled more like someone simply saying something and hoping it flies.

And second, yes, he did say that he could be replaced. What people are forgetting is that that was the SECOND to last post he made. Here's the last one.

Blackberry, the day Dybeck was lynched I was away. Also, What's up with seven posts in a row. I can't talk anymore so I promise to post tomorrow evening. It won't be like the other times where I ended up not posting.

This mentions nothing of replacing, and he said he would post more the next day- yet he never posted at all and we had to get our replacement for him ourselves. It just seemed like intentionally lurking, that's all.

Is it the best reasoning? No, but it's the one that makes most sense to me at the moment.

[vikingfan]

When was I pushing for inhim's death? I must have missed that.

I don't like being forced to claim so soon, but oh well. I am the vigilante. Who would you like me to kill tonight- I'm pretty sure I'll be a target as a result of claiming.

[vikingfan]

Correct- I'm not going to bother voting Iammars when I'll just kill him tonight.

Recommendation to the bookie- if you're still alive, bet on Iammars' death (or mine if you believe Iammars is telling the truth). Either way, I expect both of us to be dead by morning. In any case, my target has been decided for me.

[vikingfan]

No thank you- Iammars and Thesp are both NOT the vig. This is simple enough- Maxi, kill Thesp, and Iammars and I will likely kill each other (I will kill him, and since I assume he's scum, he will kill me).

I have no idea why both Thesp and Iammars jumped on my vig claim- only ONE of us is the true vig and that's me. I killed Fuldu night 3 per the recommendation of the town. I killed hezlucky night 2 because of his Aug 9th post (seemed too much like hedging his bets to me), not to mention the scummy vibe he was giving me. Apparently I was wrong (since he wasn't mafia or wolf).

What I don't understand is why two other people jumped on my scum claim- it gives the town a good chance to win now. I like our chances.

[vikingfan]

What I don't understand is why two other people jumped on my

scum

claim- it gives the town a good chance to win now. I like our chances.

Are you claiming scum?
(I mean, you already have, but still...)

Changiing my quote are we? I said

vig

not

scum

.

[vikingfan]

Oh, I see which sentence you're referring to- yes that should be vig. I had scum on my mind there because I KNOW you guys are scum.

[vikingfan]

Thoth- don't be so sure. I'm not sure about the Saulus- if he's still alive, you'd have to lynch him twice. We still have to take him into consideration.

I am the real vig here but I don't see what I can say that will change people's minds at this point. Is there anything?

[vikingfan]

Well, I win too- since I was lynched.

I agree though, we scum got all the bad luck possible. The scum were picked out almost immediately and had to claim, instead of say, the real Angel or ArchAngel. That makes a huge difference.

[vikingfan]

Oh and roles!

[vikingfan]

I wasn't screwed- I was honestly playing as a protown person. If I got nightkilled, great, but I wasn't banking on it. I didn't want to leave clues for the town to pick up on.

BTW, Hezlucky, you gave me the Finger of Innocence early on. Do you feel that you were justified or not?

[vikingfan]

Oh, I was just asking whether you consider yourself correct (since I won with the town), or wrong (since I was a potential anti-town role).

[vikingfan]

Because it was a potential anti-town role- even though I was pro-town all the way through.

Or would you have preferred me claim vampire?

[vikingfan]

Why did Thesp die night 4 if the ArchAngel protected him?