Newbie 892 - The Future of Magic. Game Over! Mafia Win

[LordChronos]

Hello everyone, I'm LordChronos, or LC, or Chronos, or whatever else you can type as long as it 's not an insult. This will be my first game of forum mafia, though I have read through 5 or 6 other games on this site. Since it looks like we are starting off with random voting, I guess I might as well make a vote.

Vote: cdubs

[LordChronos]

@Doctor, Tracker

How much experience do you two have?

[LordChronos]

@Tracker

That definitely doesn't sound like a recipe for success for town.

@Haylen

The avatar is nice. I think your vote count is messed up though.

It has everyone listed as not voting.

*facepalm* I'll edit it now, teach me not to rush things... ~Hayl

[LordChronos]

I'd be careful joking about stuff like roleclaims if I were you. I can tell you were just kidding around as part of the random vote stage, but even joking about "someone roleclaiming doctor" can end badly.

How can it end badly? Sorry if this is a dumb question.

[LordChronos]

Jackabomb is obv scumbuddies with Haylen.

He's pullin' out the chainsaw defense.

What is the chainsaw defense?

[LordChronos]

I agree, the point of playing games like mafia is to enjoy yourself, and generally if you are ultra-serious you won't enjoy yourself as much.

I am from Washington in the US.

[LordChronos]

Seeing as how my vote is on cdubs, who is one of those non-posters, I am perfectly content to leave my vote where it is. Maybe he will start talking sooner with that vote on him.

[LordChronos]

Yikes, I'm away for the night and all this happens.

Well, I guess I'd better provide some content, since it seems I have come under suspicion for not doing that enough.

On the Lynch all Lurkers debate that has come up. Personally, I would much rather have lurkers replaced than lynched. However, if, later in the game, we come to a situation where no one looks like scum, but someone is lurking, I would rather lynch that lurker than someone else, since it could be harmful to have a lurker in LyLo.

@Tracker
How is dimaba coming in, posting, and putting the

second

vote on you scummy? As I recall, he did give reasons for his vote.

@dimaba
I would like to ask you the same question you asked Tracker earlier. If we had to lynch someone right now, who would you lynch?

@Doctor
You criticize me for lack of participation in this game, but pretty much all you have done so far is talk about lurkers. Any thoughts on players who might be scum?

Right now, I don't think I am going to move my vote off cdubs.

[LordChronos]

Oh yes,

Haylen, can we get a votecount please?

[LordChronos]

@cdubs

Would you mind giving some reasoning for that vote? Personally, apart from his fixation on lurkers, I don't think he has done much of anything that qualifies him as scummy.

@Haylen

I'm pretty sure that Doctor was the second vote on me, not myself. I'm not one to vote for myself.

Sorry, I'm distracted. Not that that's any excuse. But I've just realised, exactly 9 months ago, give or take a few days, I was where you are starting my first newbie game ~ Hayl

[LordChronos]

@Tracker
How is dimaba coming in, posting, and putting the

second

vote on you scummy? As I recall, he did give reasons for his vote.

He appeared out of the blue and used 90% of RayFrost's argument against me. It could be an attempt at bandwagoning a mislynch, and obviously doing that is scummy. Even if he believes in the cockles of his little heart I am scum and he is truly Town, at the very least starting to turn a vote into a wagon is suspicous.

This doesn't make any sense. Why on earth is it scummy to start turning a vote on a player you find scummy into a wagon. Don't we want to lynch scum? Further, I really don't see how adding one vote to one existing vote makes a bandwagon. Your argument that it could be an attempt at bandwagoning a mislynch can just as easily be turned around to say that it could be an attempt at bandwagoning a scum lynch, which it could be.

This is actually increasing my suspicions of you, Tracker.

FoS: Tracker

[LordChronos]

@Chronos; Tracker's argument does make some sense in that scum may be more eager to start a bandwagon (since they aren't concerned with wether there is actually enough evidence to lynch the victim). I think that is what he means when he says that starting a bandwagon is suspicious.
But as you say, two votes is hardly a bandwagon so I agree that in the end the point is invalid.

The point I was trying to make was that Tracker said that even if you were completely convinced that he was scum, trying to drum up support against him in the form of a bandwagon was scummy. This really doesn't make sense. If I become sure at some point in the game that someone is scum, you can bet that I will try my utmost to get them lynched.

@Everyone I would like to ask if the choice was left to you would you lynch a Lurker who has posted but has not contained anything of value to the town except a few short posts, or someone who is posting but is coming off as scummy, but has some pro town qualities as well.

Going by the games that I have read in the past, I would have to say that it would be better to lynch the scummy player. As dimaba pointed out, their lynch would probably give more information. Also, I personally would feel more comfortable lynching someone because they are scummy than because they haven't posted much. As I said earlier, if it was a choice between people I didn't feel were particularly scummy and a lurker, active or otherwise, I would lynch the lurker.

[LordChronos]

@Chronos: Let's see if I can try to explain this better: if a bandwagon is started and the person being wagon'd turns out to be Town, then everyone that contributed to the bandwagon would be suspect. Also, bandwagons can snowball rather easily, so 2 votes can turn into 3, then 3 into 4...see where I'm going with this? Bandwagons aren't inherently wrong, but it can be rather easy to get them to snowball out of control. That's why I'm especially wary of possible wagons starting on the first or second page.

Okay, that makes more sense. I still think you are guilty of assuming a slippery slope will occur in your snowball effect, but that reasoning is far easier to follow than your original bandwagon post was. By the way, dimaba actually voted for you on the third page, after a day.

[LordChronos]

I'd vote him, but I dunno how many votes are on 'im, and I don't really want to take my vote off of tracker.

To answer your question, there are currently two people voting him, me and Jackabomb. I really wish he would post his reasoning for that vote.

VOTE DIMABA

I assume that your reasoning for this is the same as earlier? You think dimaba is scummy for attacking someone you think is scummy using the arguments of another person you feel is scummy? What has changed between now and then to make you think dimaba is deserving of your vote?

[LordChronos]

@easjo

Would you mind answering my question in post 166?

@dimba

I'm not Jackabomb, but I also have a vote on cdubs. Personally, I was not particularly convinced by his excuses. His accusations of Yosarian, and Tracker trying to lynch him on a policy lynch of lurkers are simply untrue. This means either he hasn't actually read through the thread carefully, or he is intentionally skewing the matter to try to divert attention to himself, which I would find scummy. Also, I find his excuse of not realizing there was more than one page a little suspicious.

@cdubs

Please get an avatar, it makes it easier to quickly tell whose posts are whose.

[LordChronos]

EBWOP

Meant to say @dimaba, not @ dimba.

[LordChronos]

@LordChronos

I assume that your reasoning for this is the same as earlier?

mostly although he seems to have made good protown arguements since

Easjo, if he has made good protown arguments since you presented your earlier reasoning, why have you voted him? Wouldn't that make him a less desirable candidate to vote against, rather than a more desirable one?

On a different topic, what do you think of the situation with cdubs?

[LordChronos]

I think Cdubs was looking for an opportunistic scum lynch with Tracker. Yosarian has also displayed a degree of vote hopping, however he provides an amount of reason for most of his votes. Cdubs only sounds like Revenge Vote.

By your comment that cdubs was looking for an opportunistic scum lynch with Tracker, do you mean that you think they are scum working together to lynch someone innocent? Or do you mean that Tracker is scum that cdubs wanted lynched?

[LordChronos]

I will be out all day tomorrow, so don't expect me to post much, if at all.

[LordChronos]

Okay, first off, I agree with RayFrost and Yosarian that Doctor should not have hammered. However, Yosarian, Tracker did not hammer. His was the L-1 vote.

For right now, given what just happened, I think I will abstain from voting until I get an answer from Doctor about why he hammered.

[LordChronos]

I agree the hammer came to early. And we do need to hear about why doctor hammered. Me i think hes genuine in his mistake. Though hearing from him will help us sort out if it is or isn't. On the chance that his post rings the nasty bells of scum i will place down a vote. What do people think of what happened over the night thought, just as a question. Now that we're in the day?

Generally, I believe that it is kind of pointless to get into a why was the nightkill made discussion. It is very much a WIFOM situation.

[LordChronos]

Yes I fucked up, I did not realize he was a l-1 hell i thought he only had two votes Chronos and Tracker, I skimmed page 8 and didn't see any bold double checked the vote count and, voted merely to try to get him to quit focusing on one person. I had absoloulty no intention of lynching.

As you see I tried to unvote thinking i was the 4th vote, and i tried to explainmyself before hand but the thread had been locked. I would however like to apologize for my mistake.

Thats my case for myself take it or leave it, though i feel its futile.

Can you explain why you didn't read the page the thread was on before voting? (Which contained another vote, made an hour before your post, so it will be difficult for you to say you missed it while you wrote your post) Can you explain why you didn't notice the

three

lines of bold on page 8, including Yosarian's vote and a FoS from you? If you had no intention of lynching cdubs, why did you vote for him when you

knew

there were at least two votes on him? I really don't think you should put some at L-2 if you have no intention of lynching them.

Plus, how is a vote on him that in your mind L-2 (but actually isn't) going to get someone to focus on more people? If he went after you after you made that vote, wouldn't you accuse him of OMGUS?

This whole hammer and horrible explanation is not helping you in my eyes. While this does make you more suspicious, I do not want a D2 lynch any time soon. We do not need to stifle further discussion by lynching now, or any time soon. We still have pretty much 3 weeks before deadline; there is no rush.

@easjo, Doctor

Please make an effort to use proper English in your posts. It makes it far more enjoyable to read and much clearer and easier to understand. Both of your most recent posts were really poorly written.

[LordChronos]

I think LordChronos' point was: why did you skim page 8 and not page 9, the page the thread was on and the page Tracker and you placed your votes on. You didn't explain that in your post. Mind doing so now?

I read page 9, there was not a vote count on page nine and tracker voted on page 9 i knew that, however i skimmed page 8 to make sure I wasn't screwing up (I should have read It all over I know) and merely missed the two posts which are quite small where Jacka and Yos voted, which are BOTH on page 8.

I had previoiusly read page 8, but I merely skimmed to make sure.

Doctor,
I went back and reread your post 224, where you first explained this. I just realized that you did say that you knew tracker had voted, (though you failed to see Jackabomb's name on the votecount). For now, I will accept that it was an honest mistake brought about by not being careful enough and it being your first game. If you do it again, my vote will be on you immediately.

@Yosarian

You wanted to know who Doctor and Tracker are suspicious of, and I second this. But I would also like you to answer that question as well.

[LordChronos]

I just thought of something. Are we in LyLo tomorrow if we mislynch today? With 5 people left tomorrow morning, only 3 of them town, would we be in LyLo?

[LordChronos]

Couple things here.

@dimaba
First off, I didn't write that quote that you quoted in your last post, I think that was Yosarian. I kind of agree with some of the points you made against easjo. With her my gut feeling is kind of leaning towards scummier rather than townier.

@easjo
Why are you not too worried about tracker? As I recall you suspected him earlier, and his actions did help lead to the quicklynch yesterday.

@Doctor
What is with the attacks on RayFrost? The tone of your post/content of your post make it seem like you are making a mountain out of a molehill here.

Also, I really do not like the way that you are reading so much into other people's posts and throwing words in their mouths. You have done it at least twice today, first with RayFrost, and now with dimaba. He wasn't saying this:

While I know there is still suspicion running rampant on me, this feels like you are basically saying that if someone else hits me, that you'll hop on the wagon, while leaving yourself free to throw suspicion on other people in the event that I turn up townie.

at all.

Rather, he was just saying that, like me, he is still going to keep an eye on you. If you do something suspicious again, we are more likely to vote you.

[LordChronos]

I don't recally attempting to get people to explain their actions a bit better to be scummy I rather feel this is attempting to get peoples opinions, and actions out into the open and a little more clearer, I'm merely pointing out the inconcistencies and weak points, and seeing if people hold water.

However your attempt to silence me here I'd say is quite scummy, ive not voted anyone and I've not attempted wagoning people I've merely pointed out weakpoints, and here you are threatining to rally a wagon on me if I continue? One could assume this as attempting someone who is trying to reveal information to the town.

You just did it again, Doctor. I don't have a problem with attempting to get peoples opinions or brining actions out into the open. Nor have I ever said I did. But I do have a problem with you putting words into my mouth and other people's mouths. I never attempted to silence you. I never threatened to wagon you if you continue to question people. I very specifically said that while you have provided an explanation for the quick hammer, if you do something like that again I would vote you.

What does the last sentence of that quote mean?

[LordChronos]

If you do something suspicious again, we are more likely to vote you.

Sounds very much like a threat to me, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it feels that way especially with the context of the rest of the post criticizing me for merely pointing out weakpoints.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. First I should have used I instead of we. Second, that quote was in reference to your putting words in dimaba's mouth. My interpretation of what he said was that like me, he was not 100% convinced by your explanation regarding the quicklynch, and so he would, like me, be more likely to vote against you if you did that again.

[LordChronos]

If you do something suspicious again, we are more likely to vote you.

Sounds very much like a threat to me, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it feels that way especially with the context of the rest of the post criticizing me for merely pointing out weakpoints.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. First I should have used I instead of we. Second, that quote was in reference to your putting words in dimaba's mouth. My interpretation of what he said was that like me, he was not 100% convinced by your explanation regarding the quicklynch, and so he would, like me, be more likely to vote against you if you did that again.

[LordChronos]

my posts often contributed to the topic or answered questions which I was asked, I didn't feel I needed to add more than what I ended up adding to them. Just because I don't feel the need to comment on everything people say doesn't constitute lack of content, if there is something I have to say say on someone elses post then I will say but if I don't need to because there is either nothing to be said or because someone else has already said it.

Personally, easjo, I find it suspicious that you say this justifying yourself to dimaba, but are willing to attack me asking questions of others instead of posting lists of people I find scummy and why. What makes it more ironic is that you have been accusing dimaba of doing exactly what you are doing, attacking someone else for a behavior you have exhibited.

By the way, in case I forget, I will be V/La 1/21-1/23

[LordChronos]

@Doctor

Discounting your quickhammer, I find that it is hard to pick any one most scummy thing. Possibly your putting words in others' mouths? Possibly dimaba's contradictory actions?

@easjo

Okay, I can do that.

Yosarian: Looks town to me. He posts insightful content and scumhunts.

RayFrost: More townish than scummy. Seems a little aggressive some times.

Tracker: Not sure, he has defended himself fairly well and done some scumhunting, possibly town.

easjo: Slightly scummy. Her posts just don't sit well with me.

dimaba: Hypocrite. Not sure as far as scum/town, though leaning a very little bit toward scum. He seems to me to just be busy, but it could be scum lurking.

Doctor: Probably more scummy than anyone else right now. The combination of the quickhammer on cdubs and the constant throwing words in people's mouths makes me suspicious.

[LordChronos]

Just to make sure everyone sees.

V/LA from now until 1/24

[LordChronos]

Okay, given that the deadline is coming up, I think we should bring dimaba up to L-1, get a claim and go from there. His hypocrisy in attacking easjo has made me suspicious of him. I still don't really like Doctor's play, but I will accept that for now, we have to make a decision. At this point, it doesn't really matter if we no-lynch or not, we will still be in LyLo tomorrow.

Vote: dimaba

This is the L-1 vote. dimaba, please claim. If anyone quickhammers dimaba, I will do my utmost to have them lynched tomorrow.

[LordChronos]

Scumhunting if im not mistaken, yet he seems to be following popular votes and not contributing a whole lot, cept against me which its all just quit putting words in others mouths thats scummy.

Last time I checked mearly prodding peoples soft point for information and reactions isn't scummy its quite the opposite, and could provide useful info to the town, and it just feels he was trying to rally people agaisnt me to silence me using my mislynch as a strong foundation.

He could be an Over zeleous towny thinking everything I say is just a lie going only off my mislynch, or he could be scum trying to capitalize on popular votes, because as soon as people started voting dimaba he jumped on that and started practically ignoring me.

Im leaning towards the latter in my assumptions, but thats just that my assumptions.

Couple things to address here. First, I assure you I was not trying to "silence" you, but if that is how you see it, then fine. Second, which popular votes have I been following? I was the

first

person to vote against cdubs, so that one is out. I went after you on day 2, but you weren't being voted so that is out. I voted for dimaba after I got back from my V/LA for two reasons: 1, the deadline is coming up and we need to come to a decision; and 2, the game was stalling and needed something to inspire more activity.

Also, what I have done in my attacks on you is very similar to what you have done in your attacks, except that I am not severely misinterpreting what you have said. I have pointed out weaknesses from my point of view that appear in your arguments/questioning. In so doing, I have gotten a reaction from you: a vehement, angry one. So I have been scumhunting, perhaps not against as many people as I should have been, but I am still scumhunting.

On the issue of lying roleclaims, I agree with Yosarian that is better not to lie if you have a power role. The loss of trust of the town will hurt you if you try to claim for real later.

[LordChronos]

I don't approve of this lynch.

I'm starting to not like Yos2.

I'll explain more after the night phase ends.

Then you really should have said something before. This lynch has been building up steam for 3-4 days to a week, during which time you have made absolutely no contribution to the thread.

Doctor,
What other info did you want from him?

[LordChronos]

Right now, I am inclined to believe Doctor's cop claim. I am not sure about easjo's doctor claim, though.

I am becoming more and more suspicious of RayFrost as time goes on. Between him, Yosarian, and easjo, I would feel by far the most comfortable lynching him.

[LordChronos]

Okay, Doctor, we know that either easjo or Yos are scum. I think we should lynch easjo, based on my previous feelings and the points Yos has made. At this point in the game, I would rather trust Yosarian than the two scummy people attacking him.

[LordChronos]

Why not, it isn't like we will learn much, since we don't trust Ray and Yos and easjo have already claimed.

Vote: easjo682

[LordChronos]

Really good job Yosarian and RayFrost. If I had gone with my first reaction after Doctor and easjo claimed and gone for the lynch on RayFrost, we might have won. But then he had to go after Yosarian, who played really well and totally fooled me right up to the end.

Who did you guys roleblock, seeing as how you clearly missed the PRs?