Newbie 871 - Game Over Town Win

[boberz]

IT IS DEFINATELY WORTH CONSIDERING

Tbh you saying it is not a subtle claim doesnt mean it's not, not that you are necessarily a doc.

Once I know that ether is back, and she had better come back, I would like some kind of mass claim. That would include doc out at some point if they exist. The quicker this happens the better giving patrick less time to come up with a fake claim, unless he has already concocted one for his scum partner.

Yeah, particularly if there is a cop I want them out, if they have checked two different people that arent me, as they should have done we are odds on (massively) to win.

What do you make of a mass claim yankee?

[Patrick]

boberz, your vote for me makes no sense.

The lack of pressure on ksen is the fault of everyone except ether and I. The only person that is a scumside factor for is patrick.

No idea where this came from. First I'm not sure how a lack of pressure on ksen needs to even be somebody's "fault" - that seems to me only true if ksen is scum. I feel like we discussed something similar to this on day 1. How exactly did you decide that everyone except you and Ether are to blame? How is that supposed to reflect badly on me?

Patrick, if I search I can find loads of things, most importantly one in the beggining of day 2. As I say I can stretch to find loads but that would be unfair. He never asked me to explain an important point on incog's mod wifom. I think he is scum because of some night analysis I have.

If by mod wifom you're talking about Incognito's nightkill, I think I actually did ask you to explain your thought process but didn't push for more later. I'm generally more interested in looking at my suspects than I am in people who I think are town, and didn't see it as that useful to get into a detailed argument about why you thought the Incognito nightkill reflected badly on Ether, especially when you gave Ether as likely town anyway. I suspect you can only find "loads of things" by severe stretches of the imagination, given that I was pretty much bottom of your list yesterday and not high on it day 1.

Interestingly it toook incog a very long time to clear patrick he is is a posssible dont think incog asserted his innocence strongly.

Bullshit. You cannot possibly have looked back at his posts. Let's see what his most recent opinion of me was:

Patrick - I was going up and down with him initially, but at the moment I think he's very likely town.

He even later labelled me as pretty obvtown and pointed out our thinking the same thing at the exact same time; a typical sign that we're both town. Are you really trying to cast doubt on me because Incognito died night 1? Even your vote for me makes no sense given your comments about pairings.

I think it unlikely scum would no-kill in this situation. Scum don't generally pass on the possbility to get rid of someone they're afraid of or to have a chance at killing a powerole. I don't think I've ever seen it happen in a game like this outside of maybe 4 man endgames or simply scum accidentally missing a kill.

I'm not sure how much else to say yet. I think having a cop claim if one exists would be a good idea. I find boberz's sudden irrationality worrying, somehow moreso because I think he's town.

[Yankee]

I have no problem with a mass claim, but I do not think you should have suggested it this early because you have given the scum a decent amount of time to come up with a fake claim/cover story. I think you should have waited until you give out your case or whatever your waiting for ether to come back for, then you should have suggested the mass claim. I can claim now though since I am just a plain townie, and do not have any kind of PR.

[boberz]

My vote makes perfect sense and you know it.

Mistake on first point, I thought you had not given a read on him in the first couple of pages of that day, you had. Noone else did btw. If you hadnt it would have made you scummy because you should (and I now know did) have commented and agreed/disagreed. Ether and I both explained why we were safer.

We had a similar discussion day 1, were you under the impression I agreed with you then?

I am not talking about his kill, his idea about herd being scum cos he was replaced quicker. And you asked me to not explain because you wanted tyrope to, you never came back to me despite promising to. However i to was distracted by tyrope's scummy behaviour at that point. Ill give you that on the benefit of doubt, just.

Your high on my list now, who's your partner? annachie? you were insistent tyrope was the better lynch.

I did look back at his posts (I did everyone in iso and all the pages, the snow here and it being christmas holiday means my diary is empty), he made a point of not clearing you for a long time, but you are right in saying he cleared you in the end. He was cautious over you, and considering how pushy i was being on the issue he had ample oppourtunity.

Not because he was killed night 1, that could have been almost anyone as i said the next day.

Ill give you unlikely, but its worth consideration.

You a doc patrick, or plain towny?




Ash brown nosing
Compassionate killing...

[boberz]

Ignore last two points there not meant for your eyes, but are there now. Doubt you'll understand anyway

[Yankee]

I dont quite understand what your saying in your posts Boberz. Is that entirely directed at Patrick? Also, I also pushed for a tyrope lynch over an annachie lynch, why is it you havent mentioned me as scummy today? Also, why cant Patrick be a cop or a roleblocker if we have them?

[Patrick]

Boberz, you said you're looking at Patrick/Annachie/ksen for scum, and you said that you'd be surprised by a Patrick/ksen scumteam, so yeah, I don't think your vote would make much sense even if all the stuff you made up to suspect me was true.

I don't remember Incognito having a theory that herd was scum for being replaced quickly. Quote it, please. I can't even tell whether or not you're implying suspicion of me because Incognito didn't immediately read me as town, but if you are, it's ridiculous. Do I really need to dig up games where Incognito didn't read me as town for a while?

About Tyrope, I'm disappointed that he was town, but I don't think he was a bad lynch, and I'd do it again. I'm not sure how you can attack me for pushing a Tyrope lynch when you were apparently certain he was scum yourself, but whatever.

Yankee's unforced claim makes me feel better about his alignment, though I would recommend nobody else claims just yet. I don't understand the talk about allowing scum more time to concoct a fakeclaim; this isn't FTF mafia, scum have had practically all the time in the world to decide what they're going to do, and it's not as though they have hundreds of different claims they could make.

[boberz]

It is entirely at patrick, i refute his post point by poiunt basically. But i expect everyone to read it.

On the annachie partnership thing i was just annoying him basically i was only semi serious, and the reason i am not attacking you is because i think your safe.

He isnt a cop, because he supports a cop claim but didnt claim. He could be, I think is, mafia rolblocker, or goon but i dont expect him to admit it.

[boberz]

Sorry not herd, darth. I forgot who replaced who momentarily point stands.

I cannot do that simple pair analysis any more patrick. We have to lynch correctly, I do not want just a 66% accuracy I want better, so I am going to investigate, see what I think and carry on. Your reads please Patrick?

I am implying some suspicion on you because incog cleared you a lot later than he did ether. But it was not my main point as is still not.

I still encourage claims. btw, plain old townie for me as well yankee.

Yoiu can dig up the games if you want but it wont help you much I have much larger points.

I wasnt really trying to accuse you based on killing tyrope i hammered him; just trying to annoy you. But the failure to switch to annachie might count against you if annachie is scum, or indeed against him if you are scum. Which you are of course.

To work a good claim it takes time, as you know patrick. I will be scrutinising all claims.

To repeat I encourage claims. What are you annachie.

May as well have ether as well. What are you?

[Annachie]

VT for me as well.

I've been thinking about advocating that the cop, if there is one, claiming. I think they should, if they have two investigations on still living players. Just town or scum, no mention of doc if one was found. If only one I'm not so sure.

[Patrick]

Sorry not herd, darth. I forgot who replaced who momentarily point stands.

I don't remember him saying this. He did make a point in Tyrope's favour based on replacements, which I commented on, but I don't remember him using that as a point against RayFrost. Again, quote it please.

I am implying some suspicion on you because incog cleared you a lot later than he did ether. But it was not my main point as is still not.

Disgusting reason for suspicion.

I'm inclined to think Annachie is scum with ksen or Yankee. That may or may not change depending on what what happens claims-wise. I would still kind of prefer if we start with asking any existing cop to claim rather than just claiming willy-nilly, though if this goes on it may not make any difference.

[ksen]

Until we get Ether's input I still think claiming right now is a very bad idea.

[boberz]

The clearing of tyrope based on what you say, implicitly put pressure on the darth player spot (as either scum or a power role) but who it was doesnt matter, it is our responses to that which i have been looking at.

Tis not a disgusting reason for suspicion, i place a lot of importance on incog. He was right on tyrope he was right on me. He was wrong on ray. He is a good player confirmed town. He cleared you much later an not as forcefully. You posting the smae thing at the same time means nothing to me.

If Yankee is scum then ether must be scum with him for me (does not work vice versa). But I dont think its likely.

Patrick annachie is most likely for me.

Do you still think i am suspicous yankee?

[boberz]

Why?

[boberz]

(that was to you ksen)

now to annachie, why is what i said at the end of day 2 worthy of me getting told off?

[ksen]

Why?

1) If there's a cop and he's only had 1 good view then outing right now may not be particularly helpful. If he's had 2 good views then the case for outing today increases. If a person he's viewed as town is about to get lynched then I think he needs to speak up and stop it. If he's viewed a scum then they need to out right now.

2) If there is a doc then I think he does not out since there are still two scum left which means there will definitely be at least one more round of night action. If the doc had a successful defend then I can see outing later if the person he defended is about to get lynched.

Either way I think it would be best to wait to hear from Ether before there is a mass claim. The day just started so we have plenty of time to claim if we have to.

The rush to have a mass claim this early in the day doesn't sit right with me.

[Patrick]

Yankee scum does not necessarily imply that Ether is scum.

To say I'm more likely to be scum because it took Incognito a couple of weeks to read me as town is stupid. It also goes directly against you saying that you place alot of importance in what Incognito says, because you're going exactly against what he said ("very likely town" and "pretty obvtown" seems pretty forceful to me). If you're town then you really need to take a step back and think about what you're saying because your argument here is completely backward.

[boberz]

1/ But you assure me there is a doc, if this is true the cop could come out and be saved by doc in the night allowing two good views, and all info available in case something went wrong. It will in this case be good to no-lynch.

2/ This is true if there is no cop, so half right i guess.

I suggest we can't move forward without a claim from everyone.

I dont see the reason to delay this untill after ether comments really, so long as we get her to claiom as well. I am confident she will be on at some point.


Fetu

[boberz]

to patrick: no it isnt and you know it. Why come back so aggresively, you are one of three. and have 1 vote.

Do some scumhunting man. It aint me and im the only person you are really conversing with.

[Patrick]

Well, I'd like Annachie to give his initial impressions about alignment not just claim strategy.

boberz, I tend to prioritise responding to attacks, especially bad ones and especially ones in lylo. If you're going to post things with the intention of annoying me, you can expect an aggressive response. If you just pull out "no u know Im right patrick" whenever you can't think of a good argument, you can expect an aggressive response. I've stated my initial impressions about alignments. Right now I'm tired and pissed off about more than one thing, and don't have the time or the patience to read the thread to try and decide which of my suggestions is more likely, especially when it could all be changed depending on cop/not cop claim (in case not obvious, I'm not a cop). I also get mixed feelings from today since Yankee's play is the more consistent with being a partner to Annachie but his play also has what I think is a town sign. I think I get your 1 of 3 thing but it seems premature right now.

[boberz]

I was not attacking you just to annoy you, but that was a part of it. I did have a much better reply but us arguing is counterproductive. But I can return to this and be right later instead.

Ether you are normally surfing about now I think, care to comment, you dont have to claim.

[Annachie]

(that was to you ksen)

now to annachie, why is what i said at the end of day 2 worthy of me getting told off?

Since you led off with ~"Patrick will probably tell me off for this but" or similar, you already know.

[Yankee]

hmm.... alot has happened since i was on for break today. The way the conversation between Patrick and Boberz is going, it sounds almost as if Boberz is the cop and is just getting a feel of everyone before he actually claims. Noone can be that sure about someones allignment so quickly when they have not mentioned anything about it previously. I would not be surprised in the least if Boberz comes back with a Cop claim. But if he is not really the cop, then to answer your question Boberz, yes you are still really suspicious to me for reasons stated above. I am really at a loss for who is the most suspicious. I do agree with Boberz that it is pointless to wait for Ether to get back before everyone claims, why must we wait for her to return? For this reasons Patrick/Ksen scum team seems the most likely to me as a pairing.

Also, I am just curious why you said if I am scum Ether would have to be the other scum. Honestly I just have no idea where that came from so I would like to hear the case about the connection between the two of us, especially since she has been gone for like a full game day.

[boberz]

(that was to you ksen)

now to annachie, why is what i said at the end of day 2 worthy of me getting told off?

Since you led off with ~"Patrick will probably tell me off for this but" or similar, you already know.

I want you to tell me, I dont think you know. I just think you were scared of possibly being checked.

Meanwhile, I agree with patrick that you need to tell us what you are thinking

[boberz]

Ether, under 4 hours till i just say everything i think.