Newbie 893 - Newbieland! (GAME OVER)

[chauchaudotcom]

I actually /outed for the next SE game but since it's already here, might as well. Let's do this!!

/confirm

[chauchaudotcom]

V/LA until Sunday because I'm going to SD right now.

I don't like RVS but I will RQS when I get back. Apologies.

[chauchaudotcom]

Hello all. Apologies for my absence so early in the game but I am back and ready to roll. Four pages in already for the first couple days. Though conversation seems to be dominated by few so let's spark some more conversations here..

Now, as promised, my questions...of DOOM!!!

Pomegranate - What are the chances of a quicklynch occuring this early in the game? Would you be satisfied with a Frost lynch today?

RayFrost - What's your thoughts on lurkers? Given your stance on bandwagons do you find Vapo's vote on you justified?

JarcLovesCinn - What's your view on Frost's argument about both Pomegranate and Theta?

Riza - What's your experience with mafia? What is your view of Pom?

Hetemens - Why FoS Vap but not vote? You said Pom seems less suspicious implying Frost seems more suspicious. Can you explain why?

ThetaSigma - Who is your top suspect at this given point in time and why.

Vaporeonage - Why did you choose to wagon Frost after all the discussion of whether wagons at this point were pro town or not? And if you don't get on the internet much how often are you planning to check on this thread?

Honest Abel - Who is your scum buddy?

Sorry some of the questions suck but as more people post it'll be a lot easier to get out more relevent information.

Also, for the record, Frost has a good point about Pom's post. Bandwagons are important to keep track of, yes, because oftentimes scum will push for a mislynch. HOWEVER, it is also completely idiotic fo scum to

seriously

hope to push a quicklynch off of purely random votes. Hence, Pom's fear of the L-2 that early in the game is out of place. Whether that's scummy or not, it's to be decided.

[chauchaudotcom]

The above should be taken with a grain of salt.

qft.

Riza, you've barely posted and have been labeled a lurker in my book. How does that make you feel? Now that Honest is out of your top who would you pursue next?

Also, for the record, not advocating lurking is one thing, yes, but dragging out the day is another. I'm not saying that's what Pom was doing but Riza's post just caused this to pop in my head so I figured I should get it out now. Getting information is crucial but if you drag out the day unnecessarily it can often kill both activity and interest which is oftentimes a far worse scenario for town. Just an fyi.

Jarc, if you were forced to vote someone off right now who would it be?

Pom, page five into the game and I have seen no scum hunting from you. What say you to this, particularly after your scumtell post?

[chauchaudotcom]

Of course I'm not saying Ray and Pom are posting helpful stuff because they are scum, but I'm pointing out the possibility and urging newbs not to forget that they could be trying to murder us while helping us learn.

I believe Pom already stated this. In the end, the chances of any of us being scum are the same. Hence, you need to learn to distinguish from actual game play and game mechanics. But you are correct about the dangers of ICs and SEs. Naturally, we are more experienced so we will be able to cover our tracks much better.

That being said, take the list of scum tells with a grain of salt. For those of you looking for 'solid evidence', it isn't going to happen. Much of this game rests on looking for logical inconsistencies, observing opponents and gut feelings. If something seems odd or feels out of place to you, question it, pursue it, etc etc. Don't wait for scum to slip. Scum hunt and force them to slip.

Honest Abel - Does aggression necessarily imply scummy?

Jarc - Fair enough. Given that there is little information to work with, how do you propose we get more information out in the open?

Theta - What is your definition of scum hunting theta? And like I asked Abel, do you find aggressive play scummy?

And speaks of scumtells and who is and is not scum as though he is the foremost authority.

Personality and attitude aside, doesn't Pom do this as well? So what makes Frost's comments versus Pom's more suspicious? (Personal vendettas aside of course)

On a side note, I do have a query for you more experienced players. How oft does scum target scum? As in, a particular behind the scenes deal wherein scum agree to sacrifice one of their own in order to appear truly pro-town?

You mean like distancing themselves? Very often. If they see their buddy start to fall they'll probably join or start a bandwagon on them. In terms of agreeing to sacrifice their partners and whatnot I'm sure it happens though I'm not quite sure how often.

But what is the purpose of your questioning at this point in time? As in, how would this information help you in terms of your scum hunting?

I make it a general rule not to discuss possible scum buddies until after we've caught at least one scum. But that's just a personal rule. There are people who disagree with me and find buddy speculating fairly useful. I think it's important later game, but early d1? No. It only serves to bring unnecessary confusion and a hell of a lot of wifom.

[chauchaudotcom]

How in the world did you get that sort of conclusion from what I said??

What I meant is there is an equal chance of an SE/IC being scum as well as a newbie. Then after wards I specifically agreed with you saying that you need to be more careful with SE/IC players because we are more experienced and can hence play better as scum.

SEs and ICs are bounded by rules when it comes to game mechanics. We CANNOT lie to you about game mechanics. But otherwise, everything else is fair game.

No, and I didn't say it did. In fact, I already weighed both possibilities concerning an aggressive player and nobody has had a chance to reply to my pondering. So I will turn the question around to you: Does aggression necessarily imply scummy?

I never claimed that you said it. I was merely asking a question. Why so defensive?

And no, I do not think aggression is scummy. Aggression are characteristics of personality and play style which could be used by both townies and scum. Misplaced aggression can eventually become anti-town but anti-town and scummy are two separate matters.

[chauchaudotcom]

Feel free to suspect me as I am just as likely to be scum as any of you.

I guess my inactivity would be a result of time-zones and/or the fact that I'm always off when others are on.

This is a message board so you don't need to be online when others are online to participate. While I understand that everyone has a life outside of this forum remember that lurking is anti-town behavior.

Riza - What is your read on Theta as of now? And how do you feel about the way Abel's posts have been progressing?

I didn't see it as such, and certainly hope it wasn't. I'm not that petty.

I wasn't talking about what you said. It was just a thought that popped in my head I felt I should bring up.

ThetaSigma needs to stop using his brain as a shield.

How is this scummy exactly?

In any case you all saw it coming,

Vote: Pomegranate

. I have yet to see scum hunting from you despite the way you answered my question (which, by the way, bothered me..but I'm still trying to figure out why).

I am trying to gather more information and scum hunt. Seeing how a lot of you don't post unless directly addressed I have to come up with questions in order to get you guys posting. As of now Frost is the most controversial figure so it's rather easy to ask questions about how people view the situation.

My questioning of Pom was indeed an accusation because I find her to be a little bit too passive in this game, particularly with all the talk of finding scumtells from her. 90 percent of her posts are game mechanics and she seems to be spending little effort actually scumhunting. I usually give newbies a pass on this towards the beginning because they're still getting used to things. But she is an IC, hence evaluated differently

But that's generally how you go. If you suspect someone, you pursue it.

"So what makes Frost's comments versus Pom's more suspicious?"

My goal wasn't to direct the heat to Pom but to find out what exactly the distinction is between the two when talking about scumtells. One of your accusations against Frost was his aggressive behavior in establishing what is and what is not scumtells. Pom has also done the same therefore I wanted to know how you distinguished between the two.

Part of this game is to find inconsistencies in people's arguments. To apply one suspicious behavior to one player and not to another merits some form of explanation. That's where my questioning was going.

Top contender at the moment is Pom. For reasons explained. But there are still a lot of individuals I have yet to get a decent read on.

Frost and Pom I've already explained. But as for directing questions in a specific way there's no particular reason. I've always done things this way. If I just went around asking people the exact same broad question it would lose its usefulness after each answer. Hence I try to give everyone a different question at the beginning to work with and it's a lot easier to come up with more specific questions versus broad ones.

Frost - Why so quiet lately? Other then Theta, who's next on your list?

[chauchaudotcom]

Wait. L-1? Wtf? Pom is on L-2

Abel, Het and Me. Right?

[chauchaudotcom]

Mod please prod Het

[chauchaudotcom]

Pom is L-1 DO NOT HAMMER.

If you hammer I will pursue your ass like no other.

Pom, I believe this would be the proper time for you to claim.

Vapo - You don't seem like you have a huge suspicion on Pom yet you are prepared to L-1 her and put her at a point of possible lynch. Why is that?

[chauchaudotcom]

I'm sure that one of the scumbags is on my wagon

This.

I need to do a full re-read before I proceed (and I suggest everyone else do the same).

Unvote

[chauchaudotcom]

So a reread didn't help much. But I did note one thing. Jarc is very hesitant to make any kind of commitment to a vote or stance.

For the record vanilla townies should always claim townie if forced to claim. There is rarely a case when it is beneficial for townies to lie about their roles (pretend to be cop or doc) because there is a chance they may accidentally out the real doc or cop if there is one.

That being said I have some questions...

Stating theories is scumhunting. It's not all brain work.

I don't quite understand what you were trying to say here in terms of quoting me. Can you explain a bit more?

Could I get a clear concise case on me rather than "She seems scummier than Ray", or "She's not doing anything"? I don't know RayFrost's alignment, but it seems to be a false dichotomy.

Not sure about others but my case was mainly because you did little to no scum hunting despite all your talk about it. Most of your posts were about game mechanics versus the actual game itself. And your answer to my question was a little too casual (seemed as if you were trying to fly under the radar). Also, I wanted to evaluate the bandwagon as well.

What can I say, I post when I can. I can't help it if I can't post more than one or two times a day.

Fair enough. It's my fault really. I am rather impatient sometimes.

[quoe="Riza"]Anyway, Honest Abel's posts seem much less suspicious to me now. His posts are logical. I believe he was the first to vote for Pom because of her small amount of scumhunting? [/quote]

I believe I was the first to point out Pom was not scumhunting. I may not have voted until after but one cannot deny I was the first to question Pom on her activity level. Just getting that out there since that seems like your main reason to clear Abel so quickly.

We know little about Hetemens. How do we know he's not scum?

We don't. But it's too early to prod. =( I tried.

So it's the exact opposite ; I'm not ready to lynch. Also note that I said that thinking that you were already L-1, but you are now so I guess the rest of my comment is still valid.

Why were you prepared to L-1 Pom but not prepared to lynch her? To L-1 her puts her in a position to be lynched. You already claimed you were ready to do so had someone else not done it prior.

Also, after I pointed out that it was not L-1 but L-2, you still didn't place her on L-1 like you claimed you would. Why is that?

not much to say at the moment, in the middle of a meaty peer-reviewed journal article, but I do have this to say:

Reason for your unvote?

[chauchaudotcom]

Chau, maybe if my only point was that she wasn't scumhunting, but I also pointed out that she was clearly trying to placate everyone which is what really set it off for me. Of course, saying "Scumhunt away!" or whatever she said was an obnoxiously anti-town sentiment, as well (too obnoxious for a mafia to say it? I'm not convinced yet).

Not sure why you directed this at me. If it's because of what I said to Riza she was only talking about the little scumhunting point, hence that's all I was focusing on.

Also, Pom's not off the table for me yet, in fact she's still my #1. The only reason I unvoted was because I didn't want to leave her in a position to be hammered before I got my thoughts together. Plus, scum or not there's a high chance someone on her bandwagon is scum.

Also, your point about Pom using "we, the town" and referring to mafia as third person is reaching a bit. Both townies and scum do this. It's a null tell.

Frost, I'm curious to hear your position on everything so far. You're rather quiet.

Hmm...I see what you mean Jarc. I'll cede that point. But I am still not fond of your indecisiveness because it's too easy of a trait for scum to hide behind.

Now we can prod Het yes?

[chauchaudotcom]

You implied to Riza that his only reason for clearing me was because I said Pom wasn't scumhunting, so I needed to point out that that wasn't my main motivation.

Yes because that was the only part Riza mentioned in her post. You do note that afterwards I asked Riza to explain whether that was the

only

reason she cleared you right? And I'm not sure how you thought I was getting defensive about it since there was nothing to be defensive about.

Plus it was in no way intended as an accusation against you (the whole stealing idea bit). One of Riza's explained reasons for clearing you was because you were the first to vote Pom for little scum hunting. I wanted Riza to explain how she came to that conclusion more seeing how the discussion of little scum hunting started long before the vote. It was more of a way to analyze Riza. But any analysis of her answer at this point will be useless given all the talk we've done already.

As per the null tell talk. Take it as you will.

People probably call you Honest because it's the first part of your screen name so it's what they naturally pops up in our heads.

[chauchaudotcom]

Well, I think Theta has done a bit more scumhunting since, but I meant that the game of Mafia can't be boiled down to a math equation, and that usually there is a sense of gut in scumhunting.

Yes but my question was why is this scummy?

Fair enough about the short answer. But my point about you not scum hunting still stands.

Who's your top two suspects right now pom?

[chauchaudotcom]

I dont know what to think, really. I guess I'll have to read some more and gather

So for now, Unvote unless I find anyone more suspicious than Pom

While your re-reading care to answer my question about why you placed Pom at L-1 in post 138.

[chauchaudotcom]

Welcome Nika. Once you're caught up I'd like to know your stance on everything.

I, personally, believe that vapor is jumpy, overexcited town rather than scum that is backing off when suspicion is placed upon him for the l-1.

Is there a reason for this distinction or is it just gut?

And is Theta still your top?

Waiting on a Vapo defense.

[chauchaudotcom]

Vapo - Can you explain your vote and reason for unvote on Pom? I'd like to know your defense on the accusation against you.

Abel - The case against Vapo is sketchy. I certainly don't like his activity yet at the same time I don't feel I can attribute it to scumminess. But I want to read Vapo's defense before I decide.

I still think it's Pom.

Vote: Pom

[chauchaudotcom]

Frost - My reason for voting Pom has been the same from the beginning. 90 percent of her posts are game semantics. The other ten percent shows little to no scumhunting. When questioned about it, her response seemed as if she was trying to pass it off as a joke. Then followed with a long post of, again, no scum hunting. So far the most I've seen her do is pursue Vapo which is perhaps the most obvious/easiest target at the moment. All that jazz and my gut says so. For the record the only reason I unvoted was because she was L1 at the time and I wanted to do a re-read. My suspicions of her hasn't changed much since then.

I'm interested in Jarc's view of the game so far though.

[chauchaudotcom]

If you feel that way about Pom but not me, would you disagree with nikanor's assessment, or have you not looked into me enough to determine for yourself?

You've done far more scum hunting then Pom has. You press people for reactions and actively try to pursue information. The difference being Pom emphasized on scum hunting points but did not pursue it, then claimed she would scum hunt and did not deliver. As for Nika's saying you're lurking. I will admit after your Theta pursuit your active scum hunting decreased a bit, then rose again. But I figured it was real life more then anything, given your warning before about school.

Who else do you think is scum?

Hets for lurking. But with Nika's replace I'm in the process of re-evaluating.

And upon re-reading, Riza.

It could have been to put Pom out of L-1, but with little to no reasoning,

it's a little shady.

This was her reasoning for voting Vapo and L-2ing him. First she defends what he could have been doing and then votes him saying had little to no reason. Then in the next post she goes on to produce yet another possible wifom defense for him but stands by her vote with a...

*shrug* Still

a bit

suspicious. XD

Which makes it seem like she wants her vote on him but doesn't want to take responsibility for it until Vapo posts again (stupidly) and makes himself an even easier target.

That and her emoticons make me weary. The last scum I played with used emoticons like no other as an attempt to casually play off attacks against them which is how I see hers being used right now, laughing off attacks on her.

Also, my stances may change based off Vapo's next post.

Oh and can you answer this Frost?

And is Theta still your top?

[chauchaudotcom]

You accuse Frost of lurking so it's only fair we use the argument against you as well, no?

Aside from Frost, who else irks you?

[chauchaudotcom]

Using emoticons normally is fine. Doesn't bother me. It's when you use laughing emoticons to play off attacks against you that makes me wonder.

I've actually strained myself from using too many here, but I guess that's obviously not working.

Why? Why did you feel the need to use more then normal? Trying to hide your scumminess behind your emoticons?! I see through you scum.

[chauchaudotcom]

I've actually strained myself from using too many here, but I guess that's obviously not working.

Wait what? From this quote I got that you were increasing the amount of emoticons you normally use as opposed to decreasing.

[chauchaudotcom]

I think this should be read "I've actually restrained myself."

That makes more sense. Too bad she defended with:

I meant that I was trying to use less emoticons here than usual, but I'm still using quite a few so my attempt to decrease seems to have failed. Here, I initially tried to use only one emoticon in a post if I ever needed to, but yeah, I guess I have been using more here than I initially wanted to.

In any case I'm waiting on Pom's promised post.

[chauchaudotcom]

The quote from Riza was her defense for me saying "From this quote I got that you were increasing the amount of emoticons you normally use".

But it has nothing to do with scumminess. I'm just bored.

[chauchaudotcom]

Abel. Barring other people's attempts to 'sway' you, who are your top suspects? I mean, conclusions you draw on your own accord not just based off other people's arguments.

[chauchaudotcom]

Wait. Nevermind. You're voting Pom at the moment. Scratch that. New question.

Aside from Pom, who else are you suspicious of?

[chauchaudotcom]

Also, I noticed you had to specify that you wanted conclusions drawn from my own accord and not based on others' arguments. Do you feel like I am stealing anyone's arguments or that I've reached no conclusions?

No, not really. I was asking that prior because your latest post was talking about you waiting for people to convince you. I just wanted to be clear on what your views on people were (outside influence aside).

More importantly, do you think it's a good strategy to analyse/criticize others' suspicions/votes/apparent-scumhunting, or should I just stick to, um, whatever else people are doing in the thread?

That's pretty much the essence of the game.

It wasn't an accusation, I just like to know people's stances throughout the game. It makes it easier to observe how people change opinions, etc.

The day's dragging, we have three lurkers, divided opinion and I want a flip. *sighs*

[chauchaudotcom]

I don't find Riza scummy for the whole emoticon thing, but slightly scummy for other reasons.

Please explain your other reasons.

[chauchaudotcom]

Don't mistake me, I will switch my vote before deadline if Vapor doesn't show up, or if he does but ignores me entirely

Why would you switch your vote if he ignored you? If he avoids answering your questions shouldn't that make him more suspicious?

The reason I find Riza a bit scummy is because of hypocrisy. She jumped on my wagon and right before Vaporeonage without much reasoning. But later, she says that she finds Vapor very scummy, even though what he did was very similar to her own actions. She seems to be grasping for straws.

Why did you not question Riza about it before? And why did you wait until now to change your vote to Riza.

[chauchaudotcom]

I'm not sure why I'm wagonned D1- I've been told I'm an easy target.

Also, can you link me to some example of games where this has happened? Thank you.

Welcome Eek.

Mod, am I allowed to ask whether Vap and Jarc picked up their pms before being replaced?

[/quote]

[chauchaudotcom]

We have four days till deadline. I still think Pom is scum but if it comes down to it I am willing to hammer to prevent a no lynch.

I'd like to know Frost and Theta's updated opinion.

And now that the weekend is over can you do a catch up and comment Nika?

Also, Riza, what are your thoughts on the case against you?

[chauchaudotcom]

Because she's the scummiest. See post 304. (Now if she would only stop lurking once there was a wagon on her...)

I believe that's MME's case, not yours.

Plus, you never answered my questions:

pom wrote:
Don't mistake me, I will switch my vote before deadline if Vapor doesn't show up, or if he does but ignores me entirely


Why would you switch your vote if he ignored you? If he avoids answering your questions shouldn't that make him more suspicious?

Quote:
The reason I find Riza a bit scummy is because of hypocrisy. She jumped on my wagon and right before Vaporeonage without much reasoning. But later, she says that she finds Vapor very scummy, even though what he did was very similar to her own actions. She seems to be grasping for straws.


Why did you not question Riza about it before? And why did you wait until now to change your vote to Riza.

[chauchaudotcom]

Don't leave Theta!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;o;!!!! We love you!! COOKIE?!

But really, it's up to you. There actually some chance you may gain interest again if this damn day ever ends. We should have ended this day way earlier. RAGE!

Dragging day = loss of interest = loss of newbies = sad chau

Nika. Pick a side. DO IT. Because it's 3 v 3 right now (I believe?) and this day really needs to end.

[chauchaudotcom]

Quick Day = Quick Lynch = Happy Scum
Every time you rush a lynch, scum smiles smugly. SMUGLY. We are talking RayFrost smug.

I never said I wanted a quick lynch. I've been on Pom since the beginning of this game. I just feel like this day has been so long with us making very little progress.

I'm not liking how Riza is not showing up to answer the charges pressed against her.

I would much rather lynch the person who gave a defense, yet still proves to be suspicious. Rather then the one who hasn't had a chance to provide their defense.

Has Riza picked up her prod yet?

If riza picked it up, then I'll join her bandwagon for avoiding posting. Otherwise, her absence does not necessarily have anything to do with her being scummy.

[chauchaudotcom]

So you want to settle for another lynch instead of your top pick? Was Riza your second choice for a lynch?

A misrep. I said I would be willing to hammer in order to prevent a no lynch. I still want a Pom lynch. And for a second lynch I'd say Riza or Nika.

So, I just got this call, was kind of urgent. It was Mr. Deadline, said he'd drop by tomorrow.

I will be on tomorrow. Don't fret.

[chauchaudotcom]

Because i want to hold in the tiny little chance that you will come to your senses and switch to pom. =[

Just give me my 24 hours of false hope! ;o;!!!

[chauchaudotcom]

Nope! There's no hope I'll switch to Pom. Sorry!

Because you are her scum buddy. Right? Yes. Okay then, I'll take that as a confession. >=D

[chauchaudotcom]

I don't care how I look as long as we catch scum.

[chauchaudotcom]

You prefer one lynch but are willing to settle for another on a person you don't even know if you suspect more than Nika.

Yes because a lynch on my 2nd is far better then a no lynch. And seeing as my view of Nika and Riza are about equally suspicious, how is it wrong on my part to be willing to switch to Riza seeing how there is no chance of a Nika bandwagon today?

I'm wondering why chau doesn't hammer now. I think it's so that she can look back at today's lynch tomorrow and say, 'Oh well, it was a deadline lynch, not my fault. I told you all to lynch Pom.'

Obviously because I want a Pom lynch.

It's not like there's any valuable discussion to be made during the last hours.

It's 4 v 4. I'm staying with my vote on Pom for now.

What time does the day end?

[chauchaudotcom]

Also, if Riza replaces I don't think we should extend the day any longer. =/ If it comes to that I will take responsibility and hammer.

[chauchaudotcom]

Bah.

Unvote; Vote: Riza

[chauchaudotcom]

No need to search. I hammered.

[chauchaudotcom]

One vote on you and you're already pulling out your 'omg don't lynch me' cards? To finish what should have happened yesterday.

Vote: Pomegranate

Also, Frost has lurked like no other this entire game. Majority of his posts are fluff.

I'll comment more tomorrow after a re-read.

[chauchaudotcom]

RayFrost didn't have that good of a reason for voting Riza, either. More mindlessly following the bandwagon. FoS: RayFrost.

I believe Frost was actually the first to vote Riza.

MME - In your ISO 8 you present your Riza case. In which case it appears as if Riza and Theta are your top suspects. Originally in ISO 1+3 Pom and Riza were your top and suddenly you were sure Riza and Theta were scum. Can you explain to me what led to you to completely drop Pom off your radar?

Gayle - Can you outline your case in more thorough detail then MME? Because a lot of what MME did other people did as well. Frost and Nika both encouraged me to hammer as well. Pom, Frost and Nika all felt that Riza was a better candidate to lynch. In fact, MME was not the first to vote Riza at all. So why out of all the possible people is MME your top suspect?

[chauchaudotcom]

Hey, Gayle. Can you address this please?

Gayle - Can you outline your case in more thorough detail then MME? Because a lot of what MME did other people did as well. Frost and Nika both encouraged me to hammer as well. Pom, Frost and Nika all felt that Riza was a better candidate to lynch. In fact, MME was not the first to vote Riza at all. So why out of all the possible people is MME your top suspect?

[chauchaudotcom]

No. Also, the order in which they voted is irrelevant to the fact that all the votes are suspect. MME is not my only suspect.

I don't believe I was asking a yes or no question. If your voting for MME, you should outline your case against him. The 'can' part was just a polite formality. Also, my main point being, since you only have one vote why did you pick MME of all people to vote? Particularly given how adamant you were about Pom's lynch yesterday.

-Chau is apparently female.

Yup =]

As opposed to your "Riza is scummy because she is a hypocrite and MME said so.".

Um, no.

Gayle was pretty damn spot on with his comment. What makes you think what he said was wrong?

All my reads got mixed up after Riza's flip, and I'm still trying to sort them out. I know that there are scum here somewhere.

Why did Riza's flip mix up your reads?

[chauchaudotcom]

I have no reason to present a case at this time.

I said, "If your voting for MME, you should outline your case against him. The 'can' part was just a polite formality."

You are actually voting MME, therefore you should explain your reasons in further detail. You vote someone and I am questioning why you voted him. So answer my question:

"since you only have one vote why did you pick MME of all people to vote? Particularly given how adamant you were about Pom's lynch yesterday."

aka, why did you vote MME not Pom?

[chauchaudotcom]

Frost who's your top right now?

[chauchaudotcom]

All the sarcastic bickering between you two is not helping town. So I say you both need to knock it off. Either don't post in this thread until you both calm the hell down or drop it and actually move onto something worth pursuing.

[chauchaudotcom]

@Chau: If you had to lynch someone other than Pom, who would it be and why?

Eh. Other then Pom I don't have anyone I would be comfortable with lynching. My next two suspects would be Nika and Frost however. But that's mainly because their posts are so lacking in content I can't get a read on them at all. The fact that Nika keeps extending his 'I'll catch I promise" rather then replacing out makes me feel like he's doing it on purpose though. So as of now my tops are Pom, Nika, Frost in that order.

Frost, can you explain to me why you feel SK is so suspicious? Is it just because of her meta read?

[chauchaudotcom]

@Chau:

If Pom flips town, where do your suspicions go? If she flips scum, do you believe Nikanor is most likely to be her scum buddy? What was your opinion of Hetemens?

I haven't looked into possible scum buddies yet to be honest. I tend to concentrate on finding one first before looking for a buddy.

I didn't really pay much attention to him d1 since he disappeared for quite some time. But reading back his posts actually give me a bad vibe. Overall I felt like he was jumping around quite a bit. The fact that he completely ignored the fact that two people were trying to bandwagon him was rather interesting but what got me was his vote on pom. Not only was it poorly reasoned but he had even stated that Frost seemed more scummy yet he voted for Pom. It was just an odd vote overall and it seemed as if he did it only because he was being questioned about it.

The problem is Het was only there for like...what, three days? So as for how reliable the analysis is I'm still deciding.

MME - What's your case on Nika?

POM - you said this to Gayle earlier:

Yes, I think you are scum. There is obviously a gut aspect. There's also a logic aspect. I can't explain why my gut is making me go all twitchy. I will explain my logic later.

Well, you ignored the corpse until you decided it was scummy that I ignored it.

Then you changed to...

Notice that I am not voting you. I find you about neutral right about now, possibly even town. All my reads got mixed up after Riza's flip, and I'm still trying to sort them out. I know that there are scum here somewhere.

Care to explain your change from "I have a logical case on you" to "Oh I have no read on you and you might even be town!"?

[chauchaudotcom]

I think you touch upon it yourself. You said that I said "I have a logical case on you, Gayle!", while in the quote that you showed, I said that a lot of the case was gut.

My gut twinges a bit at Gayle, but I don't have much of a logical case on her- the best I could do would be to raise a few points, but I have already brought them up, if I'm not mistaken.

Yes, I think you are scum. There is obviously a gut aspect. There's also a logic aspect. I can't explain why my gut is making me go all twitchy. I will explain my logic later.

I'll double quote you. Yes, you said there was gut but you also explicitly said there was a

logic aspect

. But you never went into full details. You did have a quoting war with Gayle, yes, but I do not see where any of them would have been part of a 'logical aspect' of a case against him.

Or was "Well, you ignored the corpse until you decided it was scummy that I ignored it." the only 'logical' part you had?

Plus my concern wasn't even that. It was the fact that you switched from "Yes, I think you are scum" to "I find you about neutral right about now, possibly even town" so quickly.

D) It took you a week and a half to write that?

qft

Fuck it. dalskfjalsf the rest of the post

I have...no words....

Nika, if you aren't even going to bother putting in the time for an adequate response, why did you drag this on for weeks?!

mod can we get a vote count?

Lies? You never claimed to have a gut read on Riza, in fact you never even called them scummy. Instead you made sure to stress you were blindly following someones case. Why are you changing your story now that people suspect you?

I believe you misread. He explicitly said he never claimed a gut read on Riza because it would have been worse then not saying anything at all in his mind. "I didn't say it was gut, because that's even more lame than not saying anything at all."

[chauchaudotcom]

MME&Frost - Thoughts on Nika given his recent...ehm....revelation?

Button - Other then Nika who's your other top contender for scum?

Pom - Also, I forgot to ask, why were you suspicious of SK? And why are you suspicious of Frost?

[chauchaudotcom]

wt. Nika stalker knows my name. o.o!

(Please note that this is written in a completely different tone of voice from the rest of this post. I'm actually very serious about Chau being scum. Even if you lynch me, lynch Chau tomorrow for being the scum. That is all, thanks.)

lemme guess, gut?

[chauchaudotcom]

Sort of. You've been overreacting to some things (the 'it took you a week to write that?' thing), and the fact that you waited until the last minute to hammer Riza, even though you knew it wouldn't make any difference. That makes me think you knew Riza would flip town, but wanted to wait until the last minute because you wanted to make sure people thought you hammered because it was the only option. You were being too cautious for town, basically.

Buttonman said the same thing as me so why do you consider mine an over-reaction but not his? In terms of the Riza thing I already made it clear I wanted a Pom lynch d1. But I'm not sure I can convince you otherwise since your set on your own interpretations.

wt. Nika stalker knows my name. o.o!

Hehehehehe.

Well two can play at that game.

Nika - given that you were suspicious of SK before she replaced out...what's your view on Buttonman?

Frost - So are you replacing out or not?

Also, just an fyi but school's started for me so I'll be considerably more busy until I get used to my new schedule. I'm positive I'll still keep up with the game but just wanted to give you guys a heads up just in case.

[chauchaudotcom]

I think we got stood up by Ray....

First Nik now Ray. =

s hurting.

You agree that RayFrost is scum, yes?

Why is Nikanor a better lynch?

Which one do you think is more dangerous?

Pom. I know your switched your vote but can you answer this question Gayle asked before? Why did you think, previously, that Nika was a better lynch then Frost? Why did you want Nika lynched b4 Frost if they're both going to flip scum (in your eyes)?

Yes, RF is scum. I agree with you entirely on that. But I really want to lynch Nik first. If it comes to I'll switch soon/later.

Why are you so positive RF is scum? All you've said he is posts fluff.

Why is asking a person at L-1 with a threat to be hammered to claim foolish?

For the record Frost had an opportunity to claim back a page already. He was already L-1. Which is why Pom's insistence to put him back on L-1 just to wait for a claim is ridiculous. Particularly given how positive she is that frost is scum. Hence, I'm looking at a strong possibility of a Pom + Frost pairing.

[chauchaudotcom]

Okay, RF is fine.

I'll give him a chance to post once (claim?)

, and then I'll most likely hammer.

To all: I'm willing to go for either a Nikanor or RF lynch.

Since MME unvoted,

Vote: RayFrost.

[chauchaudotcom]

That's merely the impression I got from those two posts but I see how I may have misinterpreted so I'll retract that point.

But I still feel like if RF was going to claim he would have done so already.

[chauchaudotcom]

Arghhhhhhhh I was so off this game.

Sorry Pom. =[ I don't usually tunnel so hard....>.>..or do I? I really suck at this scum hunting thing.

But after Frost flipped I was pretty sure the last scum would be Button. Of course this may be after the fact talk.

http://www.heofon.net/img/goddamnrayfrost.jpg

Win. I swear Frost is always scum.

I like screwing with people regarding gender roles online.

So THAT'S where all the females on ms are.

[chauchaudotcom]

Oh, also, great job scum team! =]!!

[chauchaudotcom]

I see right through your adorable kitten and that pink red herring Nika.