Newbie 871 - Game Over Town Win

[Yankee]

I took Ksen's claim seriously because he had cleared me (which gives him townie points in my book because I know my own role), and there was no real reason not to at the moment unless someone counterclaimed. But Boberz does bring up a very valid point that ksen does not answer adequately: If you cleared me last night, then why was I not on the bottom of your list scumminess wise. Your reason makes absolutely no sense, you know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

[boberz]

dont give him towny points for that, i wasnt exactly subtle upon thinking you were safe was I, it was a very easy claim for him to make.

ksen to clarify I think there are three outstanding questions on your claim:

1/ Why was yankee not your most safe today

2/ Why did you save incog, considering you claimed that you did based on logic that people had already showed you was wrong?

3/ Why does the fact you are voting for annachie mean he doesnt have a right to dismiss your claim.

[ksen]

3/ Why does the fact you are voting for annachie mean he doesnt have a right to dismiss your claim.

I never said Annachie doesn't have a right to dismiss my claim. I said I'm not surprised he did it.

As for the other questions I've already answered them. You don't like them too bad. My answers and reasons are what they are. If they are bad reasons, well, I guess that's why I'm in a

newbie

game.

Lynching me or someone else not scum will lose town the game. Annachie has been reading as scum since day 1. Therefore my vote will stay on him.

[boberz]

To clarify:

despite knowing 100% yankee was safe, you said that patrick and me were safer than him?

and

on night 1 despite having been personally assured that role selection is random you chose to inspect incog (one of the safest in the game) because he was an IC, which made him inherently scummy to you?

and

you now refuse to add any more to your thinking on any of these things because of moaning about being a newbie.

---

Patrick you are a brillinat player and I thought you were safe, even through my random attack period, but i fear the inadequacy of your scum partner has forced me to believe that you are scum with him. I plan to let ether's spot claim, assuming something mad doesnt happen there I plan to no lynch, then the next day i expect town to have worked it all out.

---

I am going to say bravo to patrick for making me safe on ksen, i never justified it for myself just blindly followed him.

[Annachie]

FOS Ksen

I'm not sure there was any reason to inspect Incog that didn't come from me attacking Ether and trying to trap Incog in a defense of her. An attack that ended with nothing to implicate Incog btw, and I think a reasonable clearance on Ether. (More than clearance from my perspective)
That would make me the most likely to be checked. Especially with

But a false cop claim that names a townie scum fails completely, and doesn't assure the win if the Doc guesses right again (Assuming there is a doc and no RB) but will hang the false claim.
A false claim of dead townie and scum partner still leaves every townie available for lynching though and doesn't immediatly invalidate the cop's claim.

I was going to vote but changed it to a FOS in the last preview after some thought. This claim needs careful looking at, not a rush of votes.

[Annachie]

*ebwop. Bloody heat screwing my connection and causing mistakes.

Especially with me aparently being a top suspect from early on for so many.

[Patrick]

Totally exhausted right now, reading what's been posted since I left makes me lean towards ksen being scum, tomorrow I'll have an earlier finish so should be able to make a more thought out post then.

[boberz]

Annachie you thought ether was cop or doc? and from when? physically show me the post/s

annachie is your whole post assuming there is a cop or are you more sure than me on ether?

a false cop claim calling a safe person mafia would work well if they were sure they could get the lynch, ie if they knew there was no other cop. It forces the doc (presuming they knew there was a doc) into calling it right. It would have been a better fake claim, as would have claiming a yankee night1 and a roleblock night2. I think a mafia partner has deliberately screwed over ksen in an attempt to save themselves, i migh be wrong.

annachie are you accusing yankee of being scum, because ksen cleared him?

[Annachie]

Mod: Replace out

[boberz]

??? i apologise if i attacked you too harshly there. If its other reasons then fair enough.

[starkmoon]

Yankee
boberz
Annachie 1 ksen
ksen 1 boberz
Ether
Patrick 1

Not Voting
Yankee
Annachie
Ether
Patrick

I will do what I can to replace Annachie as quickly as possible. Though... there are a LOT of replacements needed in newbie games at the moment.

[boberz]

Basically I am going to make this game move forward.

I am going to claim cop for ether, because that is what i think the spot is and with holes being exposed in ksen's claim it is ever more possible.

I think she checked Yankee and got a safe result.

The reason I think this is because she said she was PROBABLY going to go in hard on yankee on day 2, she then subtly eliminated him from her reads, ie suggested that it wasnt yankee and tyrope, reason giving they were bickering (they werent bickering much really) nobody seemed to check this other than me.

i think she was probably role blocked this night which would tell me there is a doc, maybe yankee? or maybe patrick? I think this because i think ether might have made one or two posts telling us what she had done otherwise, like she did on day 2.

Basically i have noticed lots of paralells with f2f games. Firstly compassionate killing, incog seemed genuinely pleased to have time to revise, I sense his friends (Patrick) may have chosen to kill him rather than ether for that reason. I also think ether may have deliberately not told us what was going on because she knows what is going on and is interested in the game wihthout her knowledge.

---

Annachie's replace out is a scumside factor for me for two reasons. a/ i notice he was reading a thread suggesting replacements hindered town and can help mafia b/ my question 'was your whole post assuming there is a cop?' was an attempt to see how there not being a cope affected his reads, why not tell me.

Why replace out hours after posting a perfectly good post? I wonder

---

Patrick did i cover everything in ether being cop, she wasnt necessarily role blocked i just sensed she might have been. Annachie patrick would have been a great partnership here btw, and annachie suggesting he guessed ether was cop is an attempt to distract us away from patrick??? un.ikley but possible.

oo mafia is such fun.

[Yankee]

I am not a doc, no time to post anymore, post more later

[Evilgorrilaz]

Hi guys, I think i'm replacing ether.

[ksen]

Hi guys, I think i'm replacing ether.

Good, then can you let boberz know you aren't the cop?

btw, welcome to the game.

[ksen]

@boberz, ether isn't the cop. I am. When Evilgorrilaz verifies that he's not the cop I'd like to hear your revised theory.

Links to posts would be nice too.

[Patrick]

ksen feels like scum to me from his responses, but not because of what boberz just posted:

I am going to claim cop for ether, because that is what i think the spot is and with holes being exposed in ksen's claim it is ever more possible.

I think it would have been better to stay silent on this until the replacement claims. The thing is, as was mentioned before, the scum know whether or not a cop exists if they attempted a kill. If scum know there is a cop, they might be pretty wary of claiming cop themselves which is why I'm actually not sold on this theory right now. If ksen is fakeclaiming scum, my guess would be that he did it knowing he wouldn't be counterclaimed. Of course, we can get some answers when the replacement shows up.

Can you explain 'gambit' please? from what i know of it, in this situation would be attached to much too much wifom for me to think about, but i misunderstand it a bit.

You mean the meaning of the word, or something? A gambit is usually trying something a little risky in the hope of gaining a greater reward. In this specific case, I don't see ksen as being especially devious, and I could see him as scum trying to "clear" his partner to try and win today. If he's fakeclaiming scum with someone else as his partner, it's a bit harder for me to see his motivation, though I suppose it's possible he and Annachie could have decided to bus each other today. Other pairings involving ksen I see as less likely.

Basically i have noticed lots of paralells with f2f games. Firstly compassionate killing, incog seemed genuinely pleased to have time to revise, I sense his friends (Patrick) may have chosen to kill him rather than ether for that reason.

I am now convinced you're living on another planet.

I also think ether may have deliberately not told us what was going on because she knows what is going on and is interested in the game wihthout her knowledge.

This would make sense for a silence, not for getting replaced. My guess is she was doing her normal thing of procrastinating without going one way of the other (getting caught up OR requesting replacement). It's annoying, but wouldn't be the first time.

I went looking at Annachie's other games, and he's requested replacement there too. It seems to be connected to this. This is just another player trying to metagame Annachie based on ongoing games, which is no reason at all for Annachie to replace out of anything. It doesn't say anything about his alignment in other games.

Mod/Annachie

: Thoughts on this?

Welcome evilgorrilaz.

[Yankee]

I am convinced that Ksen is a mafia goon that is sure there is no cop because he knows the 4 setups, and with both of them being goons and being blocked by a doctor, they know there is no cop. It all seems to fit now, and his posts recently dont strike me as something a town alligned player, especially a cop, would post (attitude wise). Cant remember if I have done this already or not, but

Unvote, Vote: ksen

[boberz]

i agree that i should have delayed it patrick, and did for ages, I was just fed up of the game having moved nowhere. But you are right i was impatient. If it is yankee and ksen i dont know why ksn would be the one claiming, i would have made yankee claim but hey ho.

Annachie does seem to have overreacted a tad, it hasnt made it untenable, it is just metagaiming.


Hi evil, what is your role?

[boberz]

yankee thoughts on a nolynch?

[Yankee]

I think A no lynch is better in this situation than many others, but I would not advise it, because ultimately what will we gain from the night kill?

[starkmoon]

Evilgorrilaz replaces Ether.

Zorblag has offered to replace into a game, so I will ask him to replace Annachie.

[boberz]

we will gain a better probability if we lynch tommorow with one less town alligned player to get wrong., you never know more info could become of the night. We will not lose a lynch. If we lynch wrongly today we have lost, and if we lynch wrongly tommorow we have lost.

[Yankee]

Yeah, but right now if we do a no lynch then one of the key players may be taken out and then ALL of the town players must agree on who to lynch tomorrow. At least now we have a 1 player margin for error. Also I am against it because I feel I will be the one to die during the night, lol. Since I seem to be everyones least suspect...

[starkmoon]

Yankee
boberz
Zorblag (Annachie) 1 ksen
ksen 1 boberz, Yankee
Ether
Patrick 1

Not Voting

Zorblag (Annachie)
Ether
Patrick