Open 193 - Friends and Enemies: It's over!

[Albert B. Rampage]

So, Zorblag, Ojanen, how about porkchop for dinner? His posts aren't very meaty, and we need to eat him now rather than later.

[Albert B. Rampage]

So, Zorblag, Ojanen, how about porkchop for dinner? His posts aren't very meaty, and we need to eat him now rather than later.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Zorblag, Ojanen, are we having porkchop for dinner or what? His posts aren't meaty and I rather eat him now than later, personally.

Where is Sando??

[Ojanen]

Well, Albert, I think Porkchop is vaguely going with the flow in his suspicions and substantially scummy.

But I'm actually just looking at putting charlatan to L-1.
I had given up on his early actions being that scummy, just the attacks were bothering me but then this for example makes no sense

Of course I notice it. When Ramp chimes in with a post that just says something like "More votes for PlayerX, please", it's pretty run of the mill and I don't expect anything at all to come from asking him about it.

when the substantial reason for the early suspicion for Albert was, as he explained, not the OMGUS, but calling for votes on VPB (I remember asking him later whether the vote at the time was just for pressure purpose but he said no).
Have you flip-flopped on charlatan, Ramp?

[Ojanen]

Major bullshit alert! Where is the sense of urgency? I'm not rushing anybody to vote you. I have simply stated my opinion on the matter, which is that I feel you are the best lynch for the day. Nowhere in any of my posts am I saying "hurry up everyone, you have to vote immediately!".

No, you haven't said that, and it's mostly a gut and vibe sort of thing that stems from things like arguing that if I'm not lynched today, everyone is likely to forget about Day 1 and I'll just be off the hook. Or, the comment that I need to be "dealt with" because, I guess, your read will never be any better. These things all say to me, "done deal, let's lynch him now while we can." It's not a very important thing, but I do get that feeling and so I'm curious to see if anyone else does too.

Also, I didn't get this - if it wasn't a very important thing to charlatan then wouldn't the whole VP vote kind of crumble? Reading the case attached to his vote it would seem to relate to this point. Which would make this the second vote seemingly switched out of something more akin to convenience than actually overturning scumreads.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I would go so far as to say that porkchop is a better lynch than charlatan because at least with the latter we will have a lot to play with in later days.

[charlatan]

Also, I didn't get this - if it wasn't a very important thing to charlatan then wouldn't the whole VP vote kind of crumble? Reading the case attached to his vote it would seem to relate to this point. Which would make this the second vote seemingly switched out of something more akin to convenience than actually overturning scumreads.

Um, no? What is with people thinking only the last line in the vote post is relevant? I devoted one sentence to that and two dozen or so to the rest.

I'm voting VP because he speaks on one hand like he's built up this big case with loads of evidence when he hasn't actually been as involved as he'd like us to think. I do not think the sense of finality is in any way pro-town and is extremely helpful as scum, and I think it's extremely helpful for him to come back towards the end of the day and talk about things he thinks I've done that are scummy that he never brought up at the time (i.e. unvoting Rampage). Now it's far too late to defend myself, apparently, but why did nobody mention these things before? What is the pro-town reason? It's obviously beneficial from a scum standpoint, so it's either scummy or just bad play. There's also characterizing a vote on someone other than me as a "gamble", discouraging considering other routes indirectly through mischaracterizing them as dangerous for the town (they're not).

Your 478 ignores what actually happened in the game as well; you know very well there's a difference between now and then, and what's more the whole point was that Ramp claimed or implied multiple, conflicting reasons for the original bandwagon.

[Zorblag]

I don't have time to post much just now and I need to go back and look at a couple things but I think that although I'm not particularly opposed to a PorkchopExpress lynch he wouldn't be the first choice for a place to move my vote just now were I inclined to move it. I'll have some thoughts to share this afternoon.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[xRECKONERx]

Note. My scumlist isn't really in order of scumminess, it's more of a clusterfuck of people who I feel are the same levels of scumminess. So, PCE = charlatan, not the other way around.

More PCE votes plz

[Ojanen]

If they're equal, why do you clearly prefer Porkchop?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Porkchop is clearly the better lynch. Trust me.

[xRECKONERx]

Because PCE has gotten by so far without doing much of any real effort, and I've learned you don't let that just slip by, otherwise you wind up with either a) a scum who's slipping by unnoticed or b) a townie who is an easy mislynch later.

Better to get rid of it now.

[VP Baltar]

Because PCE has gotten by so far without doing much of any real effort, and I've learned you don't let that just slip by, otherwise you wind up with either a) a scum who's slipping by unnoticed or b) a townie who is an easy mislynch later.

Better to get rid of it now.

This is a bad reason to lynch someone. Go read Last Man Standing if you want an example of PCE-town being lazy early on and then participating more later.

[xRECKONERx]

Link?

[VP Baltar]

Here you go.

Looking back though, it did slip my mind that it began over the holidays, so that could be a legitimate factor in him being less active than I had seen him in the past.

[Albert B. Rampage]

VPB is defending PCE because it was VPB's idea to invite PCE. Hees pwotectinw hees baybee.

[VP Baltar]

Sure.

[xRECKONERx]

Hmm. TBQH, it doesn't sway me much. Or at all.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Me neither. Votes plz.

[xRECKONERx]

ABR is totally mah scum buddeh. look how blatant it is!!!!!!!111!!11oneoneone

[Sando]

More than happy to swap onto PCE.

Unvote, Vote: PCE

Charlatan: I'm not sure what you mean by that's more likely for another person? My problem with you is that parts of your posts are intelligent, well articulated and clearly well thought out, other parts aren't in my opinion. I think the fact that the difference falls along fairly clearly defined lines makes me extremely suspicious of your motives.

My thoughts on VPB along the same lines... Well for 1 I have a lot lower opinion of him than of you. So the idea that he's constructing intelligent and well reasoned arguments doesn't really stand up. I find his attacks quite unconvincing, but then I find pretty much all of what he says unconvincing. I do find VPB reasonably scummy, just not for the same reason as I find you scummy.

Ojanen: Telling me that you want to change your meta then pointing me at recent games doesn't exactly inspire confidence. I have a reasonably unique insight into your scum play, and I think I've read every game you've played with Serial in it. Pretty much every time I've read a game you're in I've picked alignment correctly within a game-day. Your play today strongly suggests scum to me.

[Amished]

I'm going with VP on this issue. I was in Last Man Standing too and I remember PCE doing nothing; while the actives (scum, except for d3x) were all there and posting a lot. Personal experience with PCE seeing him as hugely town especially on the last day while being in the mire for the rest of the game.

I was supposed to shoot him {PCE} on the last day cause I was convinced he was scum until then due to a good fake-claim by d3x. Instead I did get a read on him before it was too late and shot down the last scum to help win the game.

@Ojanen: Why do you hate me? I got super sick this morning and slept for about 13 hours. My activity is going to be low for a little bit.

Much happier with my Char vote after xRx's scramble to push for PCE over Char.

[Amished]

@Sando: I love how you swap votes while still leaving major suspicion about Char (your previous vote) while giving absolutely no reasoning for you to vote for PCE even though you're "more than happy to switch"

[Sando]

@Sando: I love how you swap votes while still leaving major suspicion about Char (your previous vote) while giving absolutely no reasoning for you to vote for PCE even though you're "more than happy to switch"

Seriously? ISO me and you'll find my reasoning. It was a couple of pages back, I'll give you that, but I was voting PCE for the first 15 odd pages... This is hardly out of the blue.

[Ojanen]

Sando: Nowhere have I said I want to change my meta, get over your misread already. The games I pointed at weren't recent unless you count my whole mafiascum exisistence as recent, just relevant for D1.
Otherwise whatever man, not much I can/want to do about your misguided meta read, and if it has been correct every time I'm glad you didn't bother to say you thought I'm scum last game.

Your 478 ignores what actually happened in the game as well; you know very well there's a difference between now and then, and what's more the whole point was that Ramp claimed or implied multiple, conflicting reasons for the original bandwagon.

The conflicting reasons happened after your vote, I was looking at cosistency in the thought process of your defence.

There's also characterizing a vote on someone other than me as a "gamble", discouraging considering other routes indirectly through mischaracterizing them as dangerous for the town (they're not).

Yeah, I was wondering about that in your points actually, cause it seemed to me that if you had quoted the second part of his paragraph too the whole line would have been a little moot since he wanted more from xRx to decide.

I'm still hesitant about it because it seems like a big gamble since we have actual scummy behavior from charlatan to lynch on, but it's also day 1 where we have a little more leeway for error. I want to hear more from Reckoner (how he came to his early reads and what his reads are once he's fully caught up) before I make any final decision.

But ok. Let's make wagons exciting/a couple of people crave to strangle me.

vote: PorkchopExpress

Makes me feel a little nervous to keep avoiding the wagon of someone I find pretty scummy. But it's hard to tell, I keep changing minds. I've kind of argued with myself if charlatan wouldn't be the type of player that looks more town/more reasonable in his attacks when scum based on quick&dirty. And his talking is very compelling. And I'd have expected

more

bussing-nudging-seeming activity on D1 (although I do suck at patterns and that probably sounds crazy).

This is not a lurkervote. This is a vote for someone who suspects the rude and the bandwagoned, and writes small points that have felt very bad in my gut since the beginning of times. Porkchop, you need to seriously pick up your game right now if I'm wrong and you're town.

@Amished: I have no idea what you're referencing... How could I hate you? (Maybe you were joking about me infecting you? I don't have a sense of humour.)

@xRx: Can you specify anyhow (by an example, or anyhow so that I could get anything more tangible out of it) how Vi feels so pro-town? Would be interesting because (s)he's been a completely impenetrable read for me so far.