Open 193 - Friends and Enemies: It's over!
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Albert B. Rampage Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 27261
- Joined: April 8, 2007
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
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Albert B. Rampage Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 27261
- Joined: April 8, 2007
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
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Albert B. Rampage Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 27261
- Joined: April 8, 2007
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
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Ojanen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1390
- Joined: March 19, 2009
- Location: Germany
Well, Albert, I think Porkchop is vaguely going with the flow in his suspicions and substantially scummy.
But I'm actually just looking at putting charlatan to L-1.
I had given up on his early actions being that scummy, just the attacks were bothering me but then this for example makes no sense
when the substantial reason for the early suspicion for Albert was, as he explained, not the OMGUS, but calling for votes on VPB (I remember asking him later whether the vote at the time was just for pressure purpose but he said no).charlatan wrote:Of course I notice it. When Ramp chimes in with a post that just says something like "More votes for PlayerX, please", it's pretty run of the mill and I don't expect anything at all to come from asking him about it.
Have you flip-flopped on charlatan, Ramp?-
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Ojanen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1390
- Joined: March 19, 2009
- Location: Germany
Also, I didn't get this - if it wasn't a very important thing to charlatan then wouldn't the whole VP vote kind of crumble? Reading the case attached to his vote it would seem to relate to this point. Which would make this the second vote seemingly switched out of something more akin to convenience than actually overturning scumreads.charlatan wrote:
No, you haven't said that, and it's mostly a gut and vibe sort of thing that stems from things like arguing that if I'm not lynched today, everyone is likely to forget about Day 1 and I'll just be off the hook. Or, the comment that I need to be "dealt with" because, I guess, your read will never be any better. These things all say to me, "done deal, let's lynch him now while we can." It's not a very important thing, but I do get that feeling and so I'm curious to see if anyone else does too.VP wrote:Major bullshit alert! Where is the sense of urgency? I'm not rushing anybody to vote you. I have simply stated my opinion on the matter, which is that I feel you are the best lynch for the day. Nowhere in any of my posts am I saying "hurry up everyone, you have to vote immediately!".-
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Albert B. Rampage Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 27261
- Joined: April 8, 2007
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
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charlatan Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 621
- Joined: February 24, 2009
- Location: tokyo
Um, no? What is with people thinking only the last line in the vote post is relevant? I devoted one sentence to that and two dozen or so to the rest.Ojanen wrote: Also, I didn't get this - if it wasn't a very important thing to charlatan then wouldn't the whole VP vote kind of crumble? Reading the case attached to his vote it would seem to relate to this point. Which would make this the second vote seemingly switched out of something more akin to convenience than actually overturning scumreads.
I'm voting VP because he speaks on one hand like he's built up this big case with loads of evidence when he hasn't actually been as involved as he'd like us to think. I do not think the sense of finality is in any way pro-town and is extremely helpful as scum, and I think it's extremely helpful for him to come back towards the end of the day and talk about things he thinks I've done that are scummy that he never brought up at the time (i.e. unvoting Rampage). Now it's far too late to defend myself, apparently, but why did nobody mention these things before? What is the pro-town reason? It's obviously beneficial from a scum standpoint, so it's either scummy or just bad play. There's also characterizing a vote on someone other than me as a "gamble", discouraging considering other routes indirectly through mischaracterizing them as dangerous for the town (they're not).
Your 478 ignores what actually happened in the game as well; you know very well there's a difference between now and then, and what's more the whole point was that Ramp claimed or implied multiple, conflicting reasons for the original bandwagon.- [color=navy] charlatan[/color]
[color=maroon]every sermon is not the gospel[/color]
[color=navy]more or less done here; will maybe consider invites or replacing into your game if you're in a bind on a case-by-case basis. (low probability.)[/color]-
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Zorblag Troll
- Troll
- Troll
- Posts: 4057
- Joined: September 25, 2008
- Location: Under a bridge in Seattle
I don't have time to post much just now and I need to go back and look at a couple things but I think that although I'm not particularly opposed to a PorkchopExpress lynch he wouldn't be the first choice for a place to move my vote just now were I inclined to move it. I'll have some thoughts to share this afternoon.
-Zorblag R`Lyeh-
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xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
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Ojanen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1390
- Joined: March 19, 2009
- Location: Germany
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Albert B. Rampage Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 27261
- Joined: April 8, 2007
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
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xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 18539
- Joined: November 3, 2008
- Pronoun: he/him
This is a bad reason to lynch someone. Go read Last Man Standing if you want an example of PCE-town being lazy early on and then participating more later.xRECKONERx wrote:Because PCE has gotten by so far without doing much of any real effort, and I've learned you don't let that just slip by, otherwise you wind up with either a) a scum who's slipping by unnoticed or b) a townie who is an easy mislynch later.
Better to get rid of it now.YOUR AD HERE
Too busy with work to play mafia right now but I shall return some day!-
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xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 18539
- Joined: November 3, 2008
- Pronoun: he/him
Here you go.
Looking back though, it did slip my mind that it began over the holidays, so that could be a legitimate factor in him being less active than I had seen him in the past.YOUR AD HERE
Too busy with work to play mafia right now but I shall return some day!-
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Albert B. Rampage Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 27261
- Joined: April 8, 2007
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 18539
- Joined: November 3, 2008
- Pronoun: he/him
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xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
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Albert B. Rampage Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 27261
- Joined: April 8, 2007
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
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xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
- Posts: 26087
- Joined: March 15, 2009
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Sando Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3264
- Joined: March 27, 2009
- Location: Sydney Australia
More than happy to swap onto PCE.
Unvote, Vote: PCE
Charlatan: I'm not sure what you mean by that's more likely for another person? My problem with you is that parts of your posts are intelligent, well articulated and clearly well thought out, other parts aren't in my opinion. I think the fact that the difference falls along fairly clearly defined lines makes me extremely suspicious of your motives.
My thoughts on VPB along the same lines... Well for 1 I have a lot lower opinion of him than of you. So the idea that he's constructing intelligent and well reasoned arguments doesn't really stand up. I find his attacks quite unconvincing, but then I find pretty much all of what he says unconvincing. I do find VPB reasonably scummy, just not for the same reason as I find you scummy.
Ojanen: Telling me that you want to change your meta then pointing me at recent games doesn't exactly inspire confidence. I have a reasonably unique insight into your scum play, and I think I've read every game you've played with Serial in it. Pretty much every time I've read a game you're in I've picked alignment correctly within a game-day. Your play today strongly suggests scum to me.-
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Amished Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3679
- Joined: December 23, 2008
- Location: Minnesota
I'm going with VP on this issue. I was in Last Man Standing too and I remember PCE doing nothing; while the actives (scum, except for d3x) were all there and posting a lot. Personal experience with PCE seeing him as hugely town especially on the last day while being in the mire for the rest of the game.
I was supposed to shoot him {PCE} on the last day cause I was convinced he was scum until then due to a good fake-claim by d3x. Instead I did get a read on him before it was too late and shot down the last scum to help win the game.
@Ojanen: Why do you hate me? I got super sick this morning and slept for about 13 hours. My activity is going to be low for a little bit.
Much happier with my Char vote after xRx's scramble to push for PCE over Char.I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
No, my name is not "Ed."-
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Amished Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3679
- Joined: December 23, 2008
- Location: Minnesota
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Sando Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3264
- Joined: March 27, 2009
- Location: Sydney Australia
Seriously? ISO me and you'll find my reasoning. It was a couple of pages back, I'll give you that, but I was voting PCE for the first 15 odd pages... This is hardly out of the blue.Amished wrote:@Sando: I love how you swap votes while still leaving major suspicion about Char (your previous vote) while giving absolutely no reasoning for you to vote for PCE even though you're "more than happy to switch"-
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Ojanen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1390
- Joined: March 19, 2009
- Location: Germany
Sando: Nowhere have I said I want to change my meta, get over your misread already. The games I pointed at weren't recent unless you count my whole mafiascum exisistence as recent, just relevant for D1.
Otherwise whatever man, not much I can/want to do about your misguided meta read, and if it has been correct every time I'm glad you didn't bother to say you thought I'm scum last game.
The conflicting reasons happened after your vote, I was looking at cosistency in the thought process of your defence.charlatan wrote:Your 478 ignores what actually happened in the game as well; you know very well there's a difference between now and then, and what's more the whole point was that Ramp claimed or implied multiple, conflicting reasons for the original bandwagon.
Yeah, I was wondering about that in your points actually, cause it seemed to me that if you had quoted the second part of his paragraph too the whole line would have been a little moot since he wanted more from xRx to decide.charlatan wrote:There's also characterizing a vote on someone other than me as a "gamble", discouraging considering other routes indirectly through mischaracterizing them as dangerous for the town (they're not).
But ok. Let's make wagons exciting/a couple of people crave to strangle me.VP wrote:I'm still hesitant about it because it seems like a big gamble since we have actual scummy behavior from charlatan to lynch on, but it's also day 1 where we have a little more leeway for error. I want to hear more from Reckoner (how he came to his early reads and what his reads are once he's fully caught up) before I make any final decision.
vote: PorkchopExpress
Makes me feel a little nervous to keep avoiding the wagon of someone I find pretty scummy. But it's hard to tell, I keep changing minds. I've kind of argued with myself if charlatan wouldn't be the type of player that looks more town/more reasonable in his attacks when scum based on quick&dirty. And his talking is very compelling. And I'd have expectedmorebussing-nudging-seeming activity on D1 (although I do suck at patterns and that probably sounds crazy).
This is not a lurkervote. This is a vote for someone who suspects the rude and the bandwagoned, and writes small points that have felt very bad in my gut since the beginning of times. Porkchop, you need to seriously pick up your game right now if I'm wrong and you're town.
@Amished: I have no idea what you're referencing... How could I hate you? (Maybe you were joking about me infecting you? I don't have a sense of humour.)
@xRx: Can you specify anyhow (by an example, or anyhow so that I could get anything more tangible out of it) how Vi feels so pro-town? Would be interesting because (s)he's been a completely impenetrable read for me so far.
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