Newbie 871 - Game Over Town Win

[Yankee]

In my opinion, yes.

[starkmoon]

Yankee
Zorblag
ksen 1 Yankee
McGriddle
Patrick


Zorblag
ksen
McGriddle
Patrick

[Zorblag]

I apologize for my disappearance there; it doesn't look like I missed that much but I shouldn't have been gone for that long. I should be able to be about much more consistently from here on out.

@Patrick, thank you, that's exactly what I was getting wrong there. I did think that boberz was saying that he thought Ether got an innocent result on Yankee night two rather than night one. Taking that correction into account I am now ready to agree with you that Ether was almost certainly the night two protection. I do still think that you're overstating the degree to which relatively inactive IC's get targeted (I replace them somewhat often and find that they're often still about in both scum and town roles) but that no longer matters here as boberz's actions now speak clearly enough on their own not to have to fall back expected newbie game behavior as a significant part of the reasoning.

I also don't particularly doubt that you've spent the game getting a read on Ether. My point wasn't particularly that you'd been doing it as a means to manipulate us all along. Rather I was pointing out that your read made it more convenient for you for Ether to have been protected if you were scum.

I'll need to re-orient my thoughts now that I actually understand what was going on with boberz but here's where I think I'm sitting in terms of suspicions:

Ksen is still scum. He'd be dead and we'd have lost by now if he wasn't.

McGriddle probably did get protected night two as Ether; the intentional no kill does happen occasionally but it really is pretty rare (in fact I think the only newbie game I can think of where I've seen in was one where I submitted the no kill myself and I've been in a fair number of newbie games.) That means that McGriddle isn't a likely partner at all.

That leaves Patrick and Yankee as the partner. I've got a couple thoughts about Yankee in particular but I'm going to need to go back and look things over for both of them. For now,

@Yankee, I wonder if you could clear up why you included the word other in, "By now at least ONE

other

scum would have voted him if he were truely the cop.... Also the fact that he wasnt NK'ed" at the end of Post 819? If Ksen was the cop then the only person that I can think that you'd be applying that to would be yourself.

@McGriddle, other than what you've sorted out with Ksen do you have any thoughts about the other players in the game at this point?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[McGriddle]

@McGriddle, other than what you've sorted out with Ksen do you have any thoughts about the other players in the game at this point?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Sorry, not much, but I am on a Yankee-town feel right now. I doubt he is scum. I think Ksen is scum due to recent developments, but I do not want to place a vote as I am still not sure and if I vote and scum jumps on scum wins. So I will hold my vote for a little while.

[Yankee]

Well I dont really have an answer for that Mcgriddle, must have been a mistype or something. My point was that if Ksen was a cop then the scum would have hammered by now.

[ksen]

Ksen is still scum. He'd be dead and we'd have lost by now if he wasn't.

I don't understand your reason for saying this. Why would I be dead now if I wasn't scum?

Are you talking about me not being NK'ed last night? Why should scum NK me when they know town already thinks I'm scum and is ready to mislynch me? All they need to do is sit back and let the rest of town win the game for them.

Right now I'm only sure about 2 people, myself and Yankee. Normally I wouldn't mind dying if it helped advance a town win. However now we can't afford a mislynch.

[Patrick]

I don't understand your reason for saying this. Why would I be dead now if I wasn't scum?

It's clear enough that if you were town, Yankee would have to be town as well which would mean the scum would have the voting power to lynch you and win. I think they'd have managed it by now if that was the case.

McGriddle, what is it about Yankee that makes you think he's town? I ask because of the my two suspects for ksen's partner I'm still leaning towards it being him. His quick change of mind on ksen's claim for a relatively minor reason seemed weird to me, and I've generally felt like he's being trying very hard to distance himself from ksen since the point where ksen became more or less obvscum. Something about his approach to the "who did boberz protect" debate today makes me uneasy as well; like he was trying to head it off in a way favourable to him because he was afraid I'd bring Zorblag round to what is very likely the right conclusion. Yankee: why do you feel that analysing the words of a dead doctor is any more WIFOM than trying to analyse living players? You're very liberal with the acronym WIFOM, it seems.

[McGriddle]

I don't understand your reason for saying this. Why would I be dead now if I wasn't scum?

It's clear enough that if you were town, Yankee would have to be town as well which would mean the scum would have the voting power to lynch you and win. I think they'd have managed it by now if that was the case.

McGriddle, what is it about Yankee that makes you think he's town? I ask because of the my two suspects for ksen's partner I'm still leaning towards it being him. His quick change of mind on ksen's claim for a relatively minor reason seemed weird to me, and I've generally felt like he's being trying very hard to distance himself from ksen since the point where ksen became more or less obvscum. Something about his approach to the "who did boberz protect" debate today makes me uneasy as well; like he was trying to head it off in a way favourable to him because he was afraid I'd bring Zorblag round to what is very likely the right conclusion. Yankee: why do you feel that analysing the words of a dead doctor is any more WIFOM than trying to analyse living players? You're very liberal with the acronym WIFOM, it seems.

I only have these feelings through recent developments, my vote is an important thing and I will only vote if I don't have a shadow of a doubt that I have scum so it is unlikely I will end up voting for Yankee.

[starkmoon]

Yankee
Zorblag
ksen 1 Yankee
McGriddle
Patrick


Zorblag
ksen
McGriddle
PatricK

No prods needed, you all posted on Monday.
Also... I hate snow, can someone make it go away.

[starkmoon]

Hello?

Prods this evening...

[McGriddle]

eh ehm, i agree, there is nothing going on lol.

[ksen]

Oh for cryin' out loud, are we going to finish this game?

We need interaction people.

Just lynch me and get the game over with already. I'd like to be able to play in others before I die.

[ksen]

Here's some interaction . . . I got me and Yankee as town. That leaves Zorblag, McGriddle, and Patrick as possible scum.

vote zorblag

I don't like how Ether just dropped out of the game and how each of her replacements have tended to fall off the map.

Zorblag has made a good show with the posts he's had but I feel they have been attempts at damage control.

[McGriddle]

Here's some interaction . . . I got me and Yankee as town. That leaves Zorblag, McGriddle, and Patrick as possible scum.

vote zorblag

I don't like how Ether just dropped out of the game and how each of her replacements have tended to fall off the map.

Zorblag has made a good show with the posts he's had but I feel they have been attempts at damage control.

Vote: Ksen

for being the only read I actually have in this game and because its a dead end game.

[Yankee]

im still here. I have been checking on this game, but there has been nothing to comment on...

[McGriddle]

well hopefully ksen is scum and a ksen lynch revives the game.

[Yankee]

If he is not scum, we will know soon enough I suppose....

[Patrick]

*waves hi* Assuming Zorblag follows suit then ksen will become confirmed scum due to lack of being hammered.

im still here. I have been checking on this game, but there has been nothing to comment on...

Are you trying to find ksen's partner?

McGriddle, have you read the game?

[ksen]

well hopefully ksen is scum and a ksen lynch revives the game.

Unfortunately my lynch will end the game for town.

[McGriddle]

well hopefully ksen is scum and a ksen lynch revives the game.

Unfortunately my lynch will end the game for town.

AtE

[Yankee]

Well I am now 100% sure of Patrick's town allignment since he failed to hammer. And I agree with Mcgriddle that ksen is AtE'ing. And about ksen partner, I am leaning towards Zorblag more so, but havent entirely counted out Mcgriddle

[Zorblag]

Hmm, I'll be doing a real post in just a bit as I have got time but I will post this without hammering to clear up any worries about a quick hammer just not having been coordinated earlier.

Just a few questions while I do some looking back at things:

@Yankee, how is it that Patrick failing to hammer makes him town? Does my failing to hammer now make me town as well? If not then what's the difference that you're seeing?

@Ksen, it doesn't really matter at this point but do you really think that I'm replacing Ether?

@McGriddle, did you think that Patrick was trying to say we should lynch someone other than Ksen today (Yankee in particular) back in Post 831? Also,

McGriddle, have you read the game?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Yankee]

Yes, your failing to hammer seems to make you look town, but now I am confident that Ksen is scum since everyone has posted since L-1 in Lylo and NOONE has hammered. That means that it is impossible for Ksen not to be scum in my opinion unless both me and Mcgriddle were both scum, but that scenario is not possible since Ksen "cleared" me. Therefore is Ksen isnt scum, then we have 1 town and 1 scum on the wagon and the other scum has posted but not voted in lylo. Something doesnt add up.... And right now since Ksen is scum both Patrick and Zorblag's non hammering is a null tell.

[Zorblag]

@Yankee, I'm in the middle of my other post but I'd like to hear why it was exactly that Patrick not hammering when only he had posted made him seem town to you. I'm not willing to accept that you just now decided that you're sure that Ksen is scum as you were willing to vote for him right away in LyLo (town should never do that unless they're sure someone is scum already) so that shouldn't have been a major consideration for you. I just don't see the reasoning that you're using to get to either Patrick (100% certain) or now myself (looks like) are town based on that failure to hammer. Or if it just applied to Patrick before I don't see how this 100% certainty can become a null tell unless you were sure I was scum previously some how.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Yankee]

Well to be honest when I made that post I didnt think it all the way through. I was thinking that any scum would hammer at this point in Lylo, but what I wasnt thinking is that a Scum isnt going to hammer their scum partner.... So I am mistaken by that, as my post up there only applies if Ksen is Town, which I am certain he is not. And I have been very confident that Ksen is scum before, but as more and more evidence comes to light, it makes me even more confident. Why do you fail to acknowledge the logic I have laid out and still somewhat defend Ksen?