DP12 JeepFest Mafia GAME OVER

[Leonidas]

I'd hardly use the word 'adamant' to describe your attitude toward the lynches, Leonidas. In particular, I'd recommend people look at the post in which Leo votes for Axelrod and the ones in which I argue in favor of his lynch and decide which of the two of us was pushing harder for it.

So it's a contest between you and me? I don't get it. Great attitude, Fuldu...

As for whether it's "in [the town's] interest" to have been so non-committal about your role, this right here that I'm doing is (if I'm wrong) why. Didn't it occur to you that the actual roleblocker was going to find the whole thing suspicious?

It's again about you, Fuldu. I would have no problem with your nonsense if it were not leading to my lynch. I'm sorry, I thought you were a good player... Anyway - to asnwer your point about "The

actual roleblocker

". Nope, sorry. Even if the town tells I'm a cop when I'm just a townie, I won't claim the contrary.

It's not in the town's interest to speak, because it gives the mafia more indications into who is who.

I gave you several opportunities to even just hint that everybody was in the wrong.

I thank you for your generosity.

[Leonidas]

Mafia is a team game. The fact is, I got the SK, and put steam into the Axelrod bandwagon. If I'm a threat to your running the show, then yeah, Fuldu, by all means - get me lynched.

[Fuldu]

It isn't a contest between us, Leo. You're trying to hide behind the suggestion that you were pushing for the lynches of Stoofer and Axelrod when, in fact, you were doing nothing of the sort. You voted them and were otherwise totally content to let people do as they saw fit. I was quite happy to use "following Leonidas" as an excuse to vote for the people I already had information about, but that doesn't mean that you were actually making compelling arguments or, for that matter, any arguments whatsoever. I used myself for comparison purposes, but I could just as easily have used tss (though his arguments have been about other people).

And I don't think my actions have anything to do with ego. I've said that I used following your lead as an excuse and I'll freely admit that yesterday I was quite happy to let you paint the bullseye on yourself. But today, when several players have listed you as their most trusted individual, I think my concerns merit examination. Yes, I think that not saying anything to deflect assumptions that everyone was making about you is dangerous, but if that had been the only thing, I'd have let it go - I did yesterday. But when you had made yourself a nice solid target as a result, and the scum chose to go after an all-but-claimed vanilla townie, instead, I found that suspicious. Even then, I might have waited to see what else occured today. But with MeMe's comment to you, I felt (and her explanation notwithstanding, still feel) that a scummy rationale made the best sense of an otherwise out-of-character statement.

You can make ad hominem attacks all you want, I'm more than willing to shrug them off. But don't think calling me names is going to make me change my mind. I've given what I believe to be justified reasons for attacking you, not personal grudges.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Vote count, seven to lynch:

The Shadow 2 (LML, TSS)
TSS 2 (The shadow, Peacebringer)
Leonidas 2 (Fuldu, Nanook)
Mikehart 1 (Leonidas)

Not voting: 6

[Leonidas]

It isn't a contest between us, Leo. You're trying to hide behind the suggestion that you were pushing for the lynches of Stoofer and Axelrod when, in fact, you were doing nothing of the sort.

I think it's post 228 - I don't know how much clearer a post can get.
As to Axelrod: I was number 2 on the bandwagon, of course it's not a proof of innocence, but #2 is still very good karma.
And I'm not trying to hide.

You voted them and were otherwise totally content to let people do as they saw fit.

Well - yeah... It went alright, too. CA voted Axelrod based on the fact that my vote "went a long way in his book".

I was quite happy to use "following Leonidas" as an excuse to vote for the people I already had information about

Still does not explain why you're voting for someone who keeps fingering scums.

And

I

don't think

my

actions have anything to do with ego.

I

've said that

I

used following your lead as an excuse and

I

'll freely admit that yesterday

I

was quite happy to let you paint the bullseye on yourself. But today, when several players have listed you as their most trusted individual,

I

think

my

concerns merit examination.

I don't want to antagonize you more, so I won't comment.

But when you had made yourself a nice solid target as a result, and the scum chose to go after an all-but-claimed vanilla townie, instead, I found that suspicious.

More suspicious than, say, the vig not having been targeted, or Mith still being alive if pro-town.

Even then, I might have waited to see what else occured today. But with MeMe's comment to you, I felt (and her explanation notwithstanding, still feel) that a scummy rationale made the best sense of an otherwise out-of-character statement.

So because MeMe makes a comment, you vote

ME

. This is a very basic mafia mistake (which I do all the time). It's grouping individuals.
At any rate, if you're suspicious of MeMe's comment, you should go for MeMe first, for fear this might be a ploy to get an innocent lynched. (I did not understand her comment at the time, btw). There are many things I don't understand, and I respect that. I just focus on identifying scums, and am reasonably good at it.

I've given what I believe to be justified reasons for attacking you, not personal grudges.

I have no grudges. I find it surprising that with the facts at hand, you would still identify me as the guy to vote for. Anyway, let's see.

[Someone]

Done a re-read. No closer to finding scum.

I don't think all this discussion about voting patterns is warranted at this point in the game. I mean, it's all good and great to say that scum "would" have voted a certain way, but really we have no way of knowing where scum would put their vote. This topic has been discussed ad nauseum in this game, and look where that has gotten us... the only mafia who's been lynched didn't have any sort of suspicious voting patterns whatsoever. (Stoofer was SK, so voting patterns should be moot with him.)

Now, as I said, my re-read did not further a lot of my suspicions. However, I do have some questions.

A) Did roland ever reveal who "mith" was? Do we know who it is? If so, has this person claimed outright?

B) Is PB confirmed in any way as post restricted? How do we know he's not mafia?

C) Besides mith and jeep, are there any other possibility of mafians with anthrax that would make thematic sense?

[Fuldu]

More suspicious than, say, the vig not having been targeted, or Mith still being alive if pro-town.

I would say comparably suspicious to the vig not having been targeted, but I don't have any other reason to go after him at this time, so I'm not. As for mith still being alive (and in answer to Someone's question), I don't know who mith is. roland never revealed it and, so far as I'm aware, they never came out. Suspicions have been raised as to who mith is, but no one has said with any certainty. If you know otherwise, I'd love to hear, but as it happens, this looks like a slip to me. It makes it look like you know who mith is and have forgotten that no one else does.

[Leonidas]

Impressive sleuth skills, Fuldu (if you are pro-town, as I have to believe, unfortunately). A slip, now. Wow. Very impressive. Great job, Fuldu - pro-mafia play, but eh, at least you're making yourself useful to a cause. Which should be a rewarding experience.

There have been hypotheses as to MeMe being Mith, just as there have been suppositions about me being a role-blocker. MeMe never claimed Mith, and I never claimed role-blocker. But if Mith is not on their side, scums had as many reasons to go for MeMe as they had to go for me. And they had even more reasons to go for the outed vig.

Unless they were afraid of losing a night kill, and decided to shoot in the dark in the hope of catching a powerful role unprotected. Which is basically what happened.

But with players like you, Fuldu - who needs a mafia with night kills anyway?

[Fuldu]

Unless they were afraid of losing a night kill, and decided to shoot in the dark in the hope of catching a powerful role unprotected. Which is basically what happened.

You mean the powerful townie role that Vesuvan had all-but-claimed? Genius.

But if mith

is

on scum's side (as I have suggested and continue to believe), then either it is MeMe and they don't have any reason to kill her or it isn't MeMe and they don't have any reason to kill her (for being mith, anyway).

I consider it more probable that mith is scum (and maybe MeMe, maybe not) than that mith is pro-town. Given that, the fact that MeMe wasn't targeted doesn't bother me as much as your not having been targeted does.

But frankly, I've already said that my working hypothesis is that both of you are scum together. I'm just slightly more comfortable with my likelihood of error with you than I am with her. That, coupled with the facts that MeMe's explanation of her behavior was better than I had expected and that I don't believe I've ever seen you belittle another player to quite the extent that you're doing now, makes me quite happy to continue on voting for you.

[Leonidas]

Belittle, you say? I am baffled.

And not impressed, of course, but you already knew that.

[Leonidas]

But if mith

is

on scum's side (as I have suggested and continue to believe), then either it is MeMe and they don't have any reason to kill her or it isn't MeMe and they don't have any reason to kill her (for being mith, anyway).

Man, you should really get a coffee or something.

First, I think that, indeed, MeMe might be scum...

1)

The COP / DOC thing was SO PERFECT

. Too perfect. Unless I am just being jealous, which is very possible. (Pss, Fuldu - notice that I am jealous of

MeMe

, not of

you

). I have always admired MeMe. Nah, why don't I let my feelings out: I'm secretely in love with her. What captured my imagination was the quality of her neurons. I have worked in networking before, and I can tell you - both in terms of throughput and resilience, her brain's structure is truly remarkable.

2) Mith, well - Mith could very well be scum. And a very powerful scum, for that matter.

Anyway - I'm also afraid I might be wrong, so I won't vote her (especially since I'm secretely in love with her). So keep your vote on me, Fuldu, take a coffee, try to relax, everything is going to be just fine.

[Leonidas]

And bah, I notice that 'secretely' should be 'secretly'. Kind of ruins my declaration, but the power of feelings should always prevail over grammar.

Anyway - Let's keep that detail hush, hush.

[NanookTheWolf]

I really do not how to respond to some of these recent posts. I find myself reading them and getting shivers down my spine.

[MeMe]

vote: The Shadow

[Leonidas]

Shivers, eh? Nothing to be afraid of, Nanook... If MeMe responds favorably, the son of MeMe and Leonidas will be a MeLeon, or even a waterMeleon if he is born by the sea.

(By contrast, if he is born in Mathcam's house, he could be called CamMeLeon, but

that

would require a lot of timing and logistics).

[The Shadow]

vote: The Shadow

Thank you for the vote without reason. I will do the same.

Unvote. Vote:MeMe.

[NanookTheWolf]

I think the reasoning for a vote on you is pretty self-explanatory at this point. Let me add also .. Do you always show up just as some pressure is being put on you? Cause you don't seem to appear otherwise.

[Commodore Amazing]

Fuldu, who did you roleblock before? If there's a reason you don't want to give out all your role information, tell us. Otherwise, I don't see why you shouldn't just give us your full claim with character name and all. It might help us figure out why there were fewer kills earlier.

A) Did roland ever reveal who "mith" was? Do we know who it is? If so, has this person claimed outright?
B) Is PB confirmed in any way as post restricted? How do we know he's not mafia?
C) Besides mith and jeep, are there any other possibility of mafians with anthrax that would make thematic sense?

A) No. I have suggested that MeMe is mith. No one has claimed mith.
B) No. We don't.
C) None have been proposed.

I hear MeMe's arguments about why she's not scum, and I think she's doing a good job with them. But I also thought Axelrod was doing a good job up until his demise. I think rolandofthewhite would have wanted us all to lynch MeMe.

vote: MeMe

I think we have better things to do than go after a lurker. Pro-town lurkers are cheap ways for scum to get out of lynches.

[MeMe]

I earlier said that I was leaning toward you, Shadow. Since then, you've explained your actions as being about self-preservation rather than actually trying to lynch anyone you thought was scummy, which only added to my feelings that you're a good choice.

Don't be deceived that, just because two people are having a discussion that doesn't feature you as a topic, you've been forgotten.

[MeMe]

And, for the record, if Leo's scum I'd guess CA as being with him.

He followed him around like a puppy...when Fuldu accused him, he positioned himself to join that bandwagon...now that Shadow has OMGUSed me he's brave enough to vote me instead.

If he were on board with Fuldu's theory (which he seemed to be eager to adopt earlier), he'd be voting

with

Fuldu.

That said, I like the Shadow vote better than CA or Leo...and Fuldu's 1) gotta be a blocker and 2) his actions look more townish than not.

[MeMe]

He followed him around like a puppy...when Fuldu accused him, he positioned himself to join that bandwagon...now that Shadow has OMGUSed me he's brave enough to vote me instead.

Translation of that pronoun-riddled section:

CA followed Leo around like a puppy...when Fuldu accused Leo, CA positioned himself to join that bandwagon...now that Shadow has OMGUSed me CA's brave enough to vote me instead.

Sorry.

[Fuldu]

I was avoiding giving all my results for two reasons. First, in case Leonidas wanted to counterclaim me, the proposed set of blocks isn't totally accurate. And second, because it reveals a second piece of information that the scum don't need to know, that I didn't block

all

of the missed kills over the first three nights. Meaning that there's someone else out there protecting people. But since I don't need to worry about reason one any more and I don't think I'm going to get much further on reason two, I'll give a nearly complete list.

Night 1 - Mr. Stoofer
Night 2 - Axelrod
Night 3 - somebody other than Stoofer; I'm not going to say who because then scum know that

they

didn't prevent the Stoofer kill, either. No reason to make it easier for them to narrow down targets.
Night 4 - MeMe

Given that the town seems to want to go after my other target, I'll happily

unvote: Leonidas; vote: MeMe

. Leo, you've suggested suspicion of MeMe. Would you care to follow along? You could be fourth on the bandwagon as a means of further declaring your love.

[Fuldu]

I'll admit, CA's behavior continues to rankle. That lurker comment annoys, because it's just as true that lurking is a cheap way for scum to avoid getting themselves lynched, which might well be what The Shadow is doing. And he, too, wasn't targeted last night, which seems surprising. But his kill was outside the scope of the standard scum kill and no one else bothered to claim it, so I still trust him, even if at a distance.

[MeMe]

Gah.

I'll claim now before you all go too far down this road. Yes, I'm mith. I avoided confirming because I'm on record (in my posts to roland) with what I "thought" mith's abilities could entail.

I could take over the ability of one pro-town night-killed role -- I chose roland (all before him were townies). I received his choices/results for nights 1-3 and was blocked night 4.

Fuldu -- I know your role, shall I expose it?
I can confirm the role name of one other player as being what (s)he's claimed.
The other result I have is on myself, so that doesn't do much good.

[Commodore Amazing]

Night 3 - somebody other than Stoofer; I'm not going to say who because then scum know that they didn't prevent the Stoofer kill, either. No reason to make it easier for them to narrow down targets.

There is nothing in my role that states I would block Stoofer when I vigged him, but DP might have done that himself. Why did you block MeMe? You had no reason to be suspicious of her there, right? Why not block Leonidas?