Newbie 937 ~ Mafia Lite [Game Over]

[kelikar]

/confirm cherry

This is exciting! My first forum mafia game! Good luck to everyone!

[kelikar]

Vote: popsofctown

Conformity is the bomb, man!

(Also, I was worried there would be millers in the game until you gave the flavor disclaimer )

[kelikar]

"* 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Sane Cop, 1 Sane Doctor, 5 Townies
* 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 7 Townies
* 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Cop, 6 Townies
* 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Doctor, 6 Townies"

These are the four possible setups kelikar. No millers involved. Cop investigations are guaranteed 100% accurate..

Yeah, thats why it caught me off guard. >_>

So what is the point of the Mafia Roleblocker when there aren't any power roles on the town's side?

[kelikar]

Skerterg: I'll be sure to congratulate you. xD

Horrodude: popsofctown voted for you too D:
Why me and not him?

Hmm... Maybe he thought that if he thought that if he OMGUS'd the IC, he would call unnecessary attention to himself, so he went for a newer player so that no one would think anything of it?

Definitely far fetched, but it's something to get us out of the RVS.

[kelikar]

EBWOP:

Vote Count I:

[2] horrordude0215 - (Exilon, popsofctown)

[1] popsofctown - (kelikar)
[1] razorback - (Red Star)
[1] Exilon - (skerterg)
[1] skerterg - (razorback)

[0] ahoda - ()
[0] Kranix - ()
[0] Red Star - ()

[3]

Not voting

- (ahoda, horrordude0215, Kranix)

With

9

alive, it's

5

to lynch!

Deadline is at Wednesday, April 28, 2010 at 4:00:00 PM (Sacramento time)

I noticed that you didn't include me in the people with no votes on them. Just thought I'd point that out.

... Unless it's intentional and people can't vote for me!

Fixed! Thanks for letting me know. ~Kitty

[kelikar]

Horrordude, since you like RQS, anything you'd like to ask everyone?

Sure!

Everyone: Do you prefer being Town or Scum, and What is your experience with Mafia?

ahoda - Policy Lynches: Good or Bad?
skerterg - Did you enjoy getting your role PM?
Kranix - Lynch All Lurkers: Yes or No?
Exilon - Lynch All Liars: Yes or No?
iPot - Do you prefer to make your decisions off of logic or gut?
Red Star - Do you find lurking to be a scum tell?
razorback - What do you think is the best way to scumhunt?
popsofctown - Who is your scumbuddy?

My answers to the top 2 questions: I love being scum. It presents a fun challenge and I think it's a lot more enjoyable. I've completed 2 games so far on this site and several on a different one. Anyone who wants to look at my completed games, they can be found on my wiki page.

And if anyone has any questions for me, let me know and I'll answer them!

I have a question: Why didn't you ask me a question?

To answer your question to everyone, I like being scum too. The idea of being the informed minority is just cool, and the ability to communicate behind everyone's back is pretty fun too.

I've only ever played mafia on epicmafia.com, but I did watch a theme game here play out (KH Mafia). I came here because EM wasn't really that great of a community, and people seemed a lot nicer here, especially compared to the trolls.

[kelikar]

EBWOP:

EBWOP: Make that iPot question directed at kelikar

Forget my question then!

I personally prefer to make logical decisions, but I usually end up making gut decisions anyway.

[kelikar]

Here's a question for you horrordude: It's getting close to LYLO and the town is having a mass claim. One of the people claims watcher and posts all their results. You happen notice that they actually found scum, but never announced, even though they had the result almost 5 game days before the scum was lynched. How do you react? (This is based on a Mafia game from another forum that I forgot about.)

[kelikar]

Now here's some of my questions, for everyone:


1. Do you prefer a faster paced game or a slower game with discussion?

2. Do you think online mafia is more a psychological game or a logic game?

3. On day 1, do you think that a random lynch is better than no lynch?

4. Do you think that WIFOM is a scumtell?

5. Do you think that OMGUS is a scumtell?

6. Would you classify your playstyle as aggresive, analytical, passive or other (if so, state what).

1. It's hard to say because I've only ever played 1 game that lasted more than 30 minutes. But I guess that's why I was attracted to this site in the first place: To play a lengthy, analytical game of Mafia. So I guess I prefer long and discussion filled.

2. I feel it's more psychological because you never know what the person behind the username is really thinking, and you don't have any facial expression or nervous habits to give it away. Although, there is a lot of logic included too.

3. I would say random lynch, but I don't like that word. Random usually implies that there was no thought put behind it, and I feel you need a reason to lynch someone, be it ludicrous or not. So I guess only if there's thought behind it.

4. I still haven't quite grasped what WIFOM is, but judging by what I think it is, no.

5. OMGUS is usually not a scumtell, unless they blatantly do it and are completely serious about it. I've only ever seen people do it as a joke though.

6. Judging from my play at EM and my first game at the other forum, I would say I'm really passive. Sometimes I feel like I just get so lost in what people are saying that I feel I can only watch. But that's why I'm playing a newbie game, so I can improve upon that.

[kelikar]

well i think any one that ask's about roles happen's to fall under role fishing. and that is just not how i play the game no matter how bad it may make me look what horrordude0215 wrote: back there was scummy enough to put themself on my radar. for give me if i seem diffrent in my play style then all of you but it's just the way i do thing's.

You seem a little quick to point your finger at horrordude. His question about which faction you prefer seemed like a scumhunting technique to me. Maybe it was to gauge how certain people feel toward playing a specific faction and compare it to how they're playing this game? Even if he was scum, he knows who town is, so asking which one they prefer isn't going to help them find the power roles if there are any. They'll just get information they already know.

[kelikar]

Here's a question for you horrordude: It's getting close to LYLO and the town is having a mass claim. One of the people claims watcher and posts all their results. You happen notice that they actually found scum, but never announced, even though they had the result almost 5 game days before the scum was lynched. How do you react? (This is based on a Mafia game from another forum that I forgot about.)

I would think it’s a bit suspicious, sure… but before jumping to conclusions, I would ask them WHY they didn't reveal their results... then if they didn't give me an acceptable answer, lynch them! lol

Fair enough. The person turned out to be the last scum! I would have questioned it, except I was dead, and none of the people that were alive noticed it. So you probably would have won!

Also, I agree with the feeling that razor is being overly defensive, although only half of it seemed to be aimed toward the actual game, so I don't feel it warrants a vote yet.

Although having a vote on someone who shouldn't really have one yet bothers me, so

unvote

.

[kelikar]

Unvote Exilon
Vote Red Star

Lurkers are bad. If they say nothing, we can't have anything to be suspicious of. I think I saw Red Star log in sometime earlier, but he didn't post in this thread while posting in another. Enough suspicion for a vote from me.

If anyone is lurking, it's Kranix. He only has 2 posts: 1 to confirm and a random vote at post 76 on this page. Red Star has posted more than that and has even answered some of the questions thrown around, so it seems a little unreasonable to vote for him instead of Kranix...

In fact, I might even support a Kranix lynch not for lack of participating, but for lack of interest to participate. At the very least we can pressure him to post so we don't have a non-entity sitting around watching us point fingers the whole game.

Vote: Kranix

Also, I forgot to say Happy Birthday!

[kelikar]

Sorry for the double post, but I just read Red Star in isolation again and noticed that he actually only answered his own questions. Still, he has at least contributed to the conversation by asking them, whereas Kranix has not contributed at all, so my vote still stands.

[kelikar]

If he replaced out, would that player slot start with a clean slate, or would they need to answer to the misunderstandings as if he was in ahoda's shoes, because the new guy probably isn't going to know exactly what he was thinking. I personally think they would have some explaining to do.

Also, just to let everyone know, I've been kinda sick lately, so my posting will be slowing down. I will still probably post everyday at least once though.

[kelikar]

Prod: Kranix

So, pops, what you're saying is that you'd rather get this over with now rather than seeing if his playing improves? The way I see it, the deadline isn't for a while, so he has plenty of time to shape up/replace out. Worst case scenario, deadline gets closer and we get fed up with waiting. Plus, it will give us more time to gather info. What is the advantage over lynching him later?

FoS: pops

(That's "finger of suspicion", right?) I don't want to change vote right now because I still want to keep pressure on Kranix, but my mind is quickly changing.

[kelikar]

It's not going to improve unless he replaces out.

I've seen players implode a lot more than you have

. Selfvoting is when they've just lost it. You can't coax them out of it. Greater players have tried.

Sorry, I don't know what you mean by that.

But it's still possible for him to replace out. And if we wait, we can still gather more info, and still lynch him if he doesn't have the decency to replace out after quitting. Whether it be now, or 2 days from the deadline, the opportunity to lynch him will still be there, so theres no need to rush it.

What is the advantage over lynching him later?

There are actually several, the most important being that we have discussion, dayplay, reactions, etc., to base our Day 2 play on.

I think you misunderstood me. I was asking what advantages lynching him now had that lynching him later did not. But I agree with your response.

[kelikar]

It's okay, horrordude, I was just making sure there wasn't anymore misunderstanding.

[kelikar]

Town. Most players are town, so go figure.

Personally, I have never seen scum self-vote in all the mafia games I've played both on this site and others... have you?

Yup.

I have to agree with this. People do it all the time on Epicmafia. But you can't really compare your experience there to here, so take this post anyway you want it.

[kelikar]

To be honest, I don't know why we're focusing on ahoda anyway. I would like to point out again that Kranix has only posted 2 times: A confirmation and a random vote at post 76. What are your guys' opinions on this?

[kelikar]

Skerterg: Did I ever say my thoughts on the case? If I did, here they are again.

I don't like the case on ahoda. It seemed more like he was implying that he had 27 days to figure out the answer to his questions, not "You have 27 days to figure out my scumteam." From what I saw, people were putting words in his mouth and he didn't actually see why the word "you" should have been changed in his post. I feel that you guys were just nitpicking at his post.

Having said that, I don't like how Kranix has handled the situation. He didn't even have a "Sorry, internet's not working." or a V/LA announcement, which would have taken at most 10 seconds longer to put in his random vote, so I think he's purposely avoiding the thread. He's trying to be a non-entity, and that's not good, especially for us if he's scum because he'll stay a null-read. I think he's just going to post in the thread again to get rid of his prod and start again. I feel that he'll just be a detriment to the town at end game if he doesn't shape up, so thats why I'm focusing on him.

[kelikar]

First of all,

unvote

because it's not needed anymore

@ redstar you do know it is in a razorback's nature to rip people to shreds ??????????

second i did NOT make anyplayer off limits i just wanted to see if he replaced out. or if we were going to lynch the useless bastard. i have no patience for a PLAYER who does not help the town. nor do i have the patience for anybody who thinks little of me being able to speak for myself.

Ok, this was kinda uncalled for. He's basically just saying what you already said, and your over reactions towards people is becoming hard to ignore as just over defensiveness. It's starting to look like paranoid scum.

Kelikar : I speak for myself, but the fact is that

Kranix didn't say really anything

, so there isn't really anything to talk about.

That (was) exactly my point. What would we do with him if we had gotten to endgame? We would have absolutely nothing to go off of. We may have someone at that point that we think is scum, but there's always that possibility that the lurker who hasn't said a thing just slid by everybody's suspicions

because there was nothing to suspect

. But it's (hopefully) a non issue now that we have a replacement.

You know, I think if ahoda isn't helping and won't replace out then we should deal with the problem. Unhelpful townies that refuse to ask for a replacement need to be handled as we would in any other game. Yes, I know it sounds scummy but anti-town players always lead to mafia wins and I would rather not have that again.

Sorry, just fixed spelling so that it's actually readable.
Ok, the last sentance really strikes me as suspicious, as he's acknowledging that the previous part seems scummy. He seems to be saying, "Ok, he's not replacing, we should just not vote for him and ignore him". This seems casting ahoda as an off-limits target.

I don't see it. It seems from what you quoted that he's saying that ahoda isn't helping, so we need to deal with it now. I don't see where he's implying that ahoda's off limits. The last sentence you say? I think he means, "Yes, I know

[my words]

sound scummy, but anti-town players

(meaning ahoda)

always lead to mafia wins and I would rather not have that again."

Also, kelikar, just because you are near the top doesn't mean I suspect you; I don't really suspect anyone currently.

Yes, but you called me out on (I think) previously unjustified actions, so I gave my reasons.

Also, I forgot to say this as a suggestion for your next S.O.A.P. Try limiting the amount of players on your Scummiest list. You put some people that weren't really scummy at all, like Exilon, and even gave a reason to not put them on the list lol.

In truth, my gut read on ahoda is townie, but you cannot deny that his actions are scumlike (if just looking at content). Who would you place on the top of the list? I don't think there is a better candidate. I didn't rate Kranix because he hasn't posted at all, really. I do not think he is even lurking; he just isn't playing. Once we get someone new, I'll try to get a better read.

Ahoda hasn't done any playing at all either... I just think it's odd you're trying to separate the 2 of them when their actions are relatively the same.

Their actions are relatively the same as in they have not contributed, but ahoda actually has actions that we can get a picture of him, albeit a vague one.

To conclude my post, here are my top 3 FoS's:

• razorback: His defensiveness at first wasn't really a problem, but now it's getting to the point where it looks scummy. He wasn't really called out either.
  
  Red Star: He has a way of twisting people's words around. It bothers me.
  
  popsofctown: The L-1 vote, but it's not really a big deal because I think he spelled out his reasons pretty well.

[kelikar]

Welcome to the game, Leafsnail and mask man!

I'm glad that someone agrees with my views on razorback. As I said before, his overdefensivness was coming off as paranoid scum to me.

I want to ask you something Leafsnail. Do you agree with me that Red Star has been twisting certain people's words around to make them seem scummy, even though they seemed to relatively benign intentions? Also, why no read on me?

hmmm. hay i try to keep but hay if i die then that's how the game has to play out. and it's not excuses thing's just go from bad to worse as i play these games i never seem to get out of day one or two. because i always fuck thing's up so i have come with a simple stya alive as long as i can.........

Sorry dude, but you aren't really helping your case. It would be nice if you gave your views on everyone instead of posting just to excuse yourself. Until I see something other than that,

Vote: razorback

.

[kelikar]

In hindsight, I see only one instance of Red Star twisting words. I thought I saw it when the ahoda lynch started, but it was actually horrordude that I saw.

Exilon, it was a joke intended to get discussion going, seeing as no-one wants to post here due to there being no activity of any positive description.

Don't worry, you have 17 days to figure it all out. lol

Wait, what? Why would you say YOU have 17 days to figure it out... not WE, you. To me this says 1 thing: I'm not apart of the town, so I don't have to figure it out. Slight slip, in my opinion, and if you add it to your active lurking,

Unvote, vote ahoda

I'll be looking at Razor's meta soon... in the meantime, we should get some posting happening here people!

I thought this was Red Star, but I was wrong. The reason I thought this was word twisting was because the intention behind ahoda's post seemed fairly obvious (jokingly, saying that RS still has a while to straighten things out and gather his information), but horror's (who I though was RS) reaction tried to make the obvious joke look scummy.

The instance that I know for sure that I saw it was here:

You know, I think if ahoda isn't helping and won't replace out then we should deal with the problem. Unhelpful townies that refuse to ask for a replacement need to be handled as we would in any other game. Yes, I know it sounds scummy but anti-town players always lead to mafia wins and I would rather not have that again.

Sorry, just fixed spelling so that it's actually readable.
Ok, the last sentance really strikes me as suspicious, as he's acknowledging that the previous part seems scummy. He seems to be saying, "Ok, he's not replacing, we should just not vote for him and ignore him". This seems casting ahoda as an off-limits target.

If you read what razor said there, you can see that it wasn't anything like what RS interprets it as. The last sentence from razor is implying that saying that ahoda needed to be dealt with today seems scummy, but quitters always lead to the mafia winning, and I don't want that.

RS interprets it as him NOT wanting ahoda lynched, which is obviously wrong.

I hope you guys see what I'm seeing.

Also, I want to clarify one thing: I did not want to lynch Kranix. I wanted to pressure him into posting with our votes (I thought I said that numerous times?). The last thing on my mind was straight up lynching him.

[kelikar]

Going V/LA until the 24th with possible computer access, but I'll only be able to take quick notes if I check the thread.

Noted! You won't be prodded if you don't post during that time! Thanks for letting me know! ~KittyMo

[kelikar]

Hey guys, I'm back. Thanks for waiting!

If you can't find time to prove your point, then your argument is invalid

because you haven't got an argument!

You've also avoided several points. For instance:

Tell us what games have you checked and what made you see that. Show us, to help us see what you see.

If you are so sure, or if you have this great case, it does not help the town one bit if you do not express it clearly.

What is this 'meta' you speak of? If it's one of a kind, how do you know it's scum? Why should town believe that you've discovered some deep, mystical posting pattern when you fail to present your findings and you're incapable of stringing a coherent sentance together?

I'd like an explanation of:
a) What the hell we're meant to be looking at
b) What your argument is
c) This 'meta' that you keeping talking about.

Instead of just stringing a bunch of seperate quotes together, could you actually make a coherent argument and explain why you think I'm scum, instead of trying to accuse me without any case?

Answer these points that you've been avoiding.

well the ponit your lloking at is you have been making stupid useless jokes.

and you have been twisting evryones words around incluseing my own.

and that in the mist of everything you mange to tuyn people eyes's form you to me at all time . i have been watching learning your meta. and all you scum tricks you could hide from a normal townie but not from me i'm looking for not only slips but for scum that hate the lime light like you do. and you aslo seem to like to be lazy and dissappper for pages at a time i have on at least four pages.

so now things seem to be back in court but not only are you scum but a lurker as well and i like to give chase to lurkers.

Look familiar?

You know, I think if ahoda isn't helping and won't replace out then we should deal with the problem. Unhelpful townies that refuse to ask for a replacement need to be handled as we would in any other game. Yes, I know it sounds scummy but anti-town players always lead to mafia wins and I would rather not have that again.

Sorry, just fixed spelling so that it's actually readable.
Ok, the last sentance really strikes me as suspicious, as he's acknowledging that the previous part seems scummy. He seems to be saying, "Ok, he's not replacing, we should just not vote for him and ignore him". This seems casting ahoda as an off-limits target.

If you read what razor said there, you can see that it wasn't anything like what RS interprets it as.

The last sentence from razor is implying that saying that ahoda needed to be dealt with today seems scummy, but quitters always lead to the mafia winning, and I don't want that.

RS interprets it as him NOT wanting ahoda lynched, which is obviously wrong.

I hope you guys see what I'm seeing.

viewtopic.php?p=2230606#2230606 Pst. 193 to see the whole post. It makes a little more sense.

From what I've seen, ever sense I brought up how RedStar twisted some words once, razorback has been all over it and based his whole "case" off of it, even taking it to the point where he quoted almost all of RedStar's posts and said he was word twisting. After mask man gives his two cents, I think we're ready to hammer.

Crap, I can't take it anymore! Even if he is town, I don't care at all, his posts make no sense whatsoever, and if he survived he would be a huge pain in the side to the town. His last two posts are incomprehensable, so imagine having him in lylo. In all honesty, I don't particularly care about his alignment anymore, I just want him to shut up.

Vote: razorback

Just wanting someone to shut up is not a good reason to vote. This seems kinda like, "God, I'm tired of this guy tunneling me. Can we lynch him now so I don't have all this attention?" You're reaction is not really that great. From my experience, scum have shorter fuses than those who play on the town side. I think its reason to be suspicious.

The thing is, I don't realy see a razorback/ Red Star scumteam... if razorback does flip town, Red Star is the next one to look at.

I agree with this. I don't think they can be scum buddies. In fact, if we were to change votes to Red Star now, I would be okay with following along and voting for him, even if he is my second choice. I heavily suspect that razorback is just a clueless townie and Red Star (and possibly others) is taking advantage of this. Like I said before, it's easy to attack someone who cannot defend himself well. Much as how I believed Kranix was not lurking, just being inactive, so do I believe that razorback is not scum, just playing as a townie very poorly and helping scum by doing so (basically by allowing them to gain a turn as people lynch him).

You would hop on a bandwagon for your second FoS instead of making a case against your top FoS? I don't really like how that sounds. Also, I don't think that razorback needs to be town for us to look at RedStar. In fact, if razor is scum, we absolutely NEED to look at RedStar, because this could be a huge case of bussing. And it's plausible because neither of them have replaced out and could have had time to discuss it before hand. It may not be probable, but it's worth taking a look at.

Also, pops, your posting seems kind of eerie to me. Most of the time, I get some kind of tone when reading someone's posts. Your posts are monotone to me. I also don't see a lot of analysis in your posts, which also bothers me.

I think I addressed all the stuff I wanted to. If you want my opinions on something I didn't address, just tell me and I'll do my best.

[kelikar]

Kelikar, what is your response to my suspicion that you have targeted the ones most incapable of defending themselves? Kranix was totally missing in action and did not even lurk, and razorback cannot put together a rational case at all. Doesn't it seem convenient for someone to do that?

I completely understand where you are coming from. Although, I will say this again: I did not want to lynch Kranix, but merely pressure him to say

something

of use. And even when he did come back (albeit for probably less than 2 seconds), there was NO response whatsoever, so I kept my pressure on him in hopes that he would come back to the game. So I don't really consider that targeting him. Razorback I did target, so I

guess

you have a right to be suspicious. But I think you and I can agree that razorback was a huge hindrance to the town, town-aligned or not. Part of the reason that he was lynched was

because

of the fact that he couldn't put a rational case together. How did that affect the town? It completely distracted everyone. If your in a debate, do you want someone who makes everyone else look at them in a confused matter and go on discussing how dumb their arguments are? No. I distracts from what we're supposed to do: Find the scum. Which leads me to believe that the people that didn't want to lynch razorback didn't really have the best interests of the town in mind.

[kelikar]

Good job an a scum lynch guys!

RedStar: I figured what you said was complete WIFOM and I was planning on saying something about how devious your plan was, but I decided against it in case the mafia caught on.

I want to FoS skerterg naturally. He was probably the one defending razor the most, and really seemed to want to keep him alive. Pops didn't seem to truly want him alive, just kinda implying that it was a hilarious predicament.

Would definitely like an explanation from skerterg.