Newbie 940 - Game over

[Die Prediger]

Hello people! Its also my second game here in mafiascum.net. I hope we all can have some fun togheter.

So, to start the RVS and dont get anyone on L-3, Ill

vote Pulindar

because he was the first to post.

[Die Prediger]

But maybe you are scum enough to pile on vote and take someone to L-3, right Thor?

After one post youre capable to know who is or not scum? Or youre just trying to convince the townies to lynch one of them randomly while you and your scum teammate escapes?

unvote
Vote Thor

[Die Prediger]

Vote: Die Prediger

Cause someone with the name of die simply can't be trusted!

Die Prediger = The Preacher (german).

[Die Prediger]

But maybe you are scum enough to pile on vote and take someone to L-3, right Thor?

Interesting. Re-read your post above this one and tell me how you're doing anything differently. Haven't you just decided I'm scum based off of a single post?

Youre right. I did the same thing that youve done. We can find scummy behavior all the time, no? You just have to want to.

[Die Prediger]

Excellent - so we agree that scummy behavior can be found in one post.

Yes, in one, but hardly on the first. It would be smarter to wait some time, dont you think?

Why are you voting me again? Your claim thus far (insomuch as I can tell) was that it was scummy of me to find scummy behavior in one post. You've just agreed that's not scummy, so clearly you have to see something scummy in me besides that, what is it?

Nope, the reason was not that one. If you read carefully, you will see the reason is to take someone to L-3 rightaway. Or youre just trying to pressure on me, or you are on a scum bandwagon. So you can take 2 reasons why i voted on you.

Also, do you think AurorusVox is scummy for wanting to vote for people she thinks she'll get positive vibes off of later in the game?

Nope, should I?

Besides, what do you think about someone that votes just because the name of the other?

[Die Prediger]

Hey, that was a question to Thor... you dont need to feel attacked... unless you fear that.

[Die Prediger]

TO PULINDAR:

1.) Do you think Bandwagons are a scummy thing?

They can be. If a player is on L-3, and other two people join the bandwagon, you can find something scummy in that, [no]? OTOH, it can pressure a scum slip.

2.) Do you think pressure is scummy?

Not at all. You´ve got to pressure everyone, especially in the newbie games, dont you think?

3.) If so, please say why.

....

4.) Can someone determine scum reliably from one post?

From one post? Sure! But from the very first one? I doubt.

5.) If I showed you an example where someone did you would you think they could?

Please, show it.

6.) What is your favorite role and why?

Its the mason i played once in another site. You are town AND you can talk to each other. Whats your favorite role?

[Die Prediger]

Vote Die Prediger

And this was very fast to day one, right, getting me to L-1?

Scummy bandwagon???

[Die Prediger]

"Die Prediger" is at L-1 now, right? This is an unnerving situation, made even more unnerving by the fact that [no] hasn't even given the illusion of (even a random) reason...

Should someone take their vote off him just in case he's a townie and the mafia quick-hammers on him?

Right, why didnt you?

Both Mafia had already voted in me, so they couldnt give the final vote? And not giving it, assuming the one that could've give it was the mafia???

[Die Prediger]

Both Mafia had already voted in me, so they couldnt give the final vote? And not giving it, assuming the one that could've give it was the mafia???

I'm not quite sure what you're asking here...

he's asking if you thought of the four people on him two were mafia.

Die Prediger probably (though I won't say for sure) thought your vote was on him.

Yes, thanks, Pulindar.

And sorry AV! Afterall, you DID the right thing. You called attention for it. Would a Mafia tell something about it? I doubt. The mafia would just stay away, pretending that did not see it.

And that makes me even more suspicious on [no]. Why did he got me at L-1? And regarding the same question, were the 2 mafias already voting in me?

Or they couldnt see it to give the final vote? That would make a player who still didnt post a mafia?

[Die Prediger]

I'd just like to say, that I don't like the way either of them have gone about things. I think there is a good possibility that [no] got worried and was bussing his partner, or maybe just distancing. I dunno. Still, suspicious.

FoS [no] & Die Prediger

You are imagining too much, dont you think? I could say you are doing the exact same thing with [no], when you say we can be partners, you are distancing yourself from him. Am I wrong?

[Die Prediger]

@Newer players
It's my understanding that nobody here is in their first game ever. What mistakes did you make in your previous games, if any, and what did you learn from them?

Its my 2nd game here, and 4th game in my "career".

In the last game i played here i was town, i was NK on day 1. In the first day I was one of those who made a point against the mafia goon who was lynched, so i believe i made a good game before my death.

I was not suspected for anyone, and i was not so talkative either, so i think the mafia killed me so he could made a case easily against the others who were already suspected by someone.

[Die Prediger]

Thor actually unvoted first...

Just looked.... not sure how i missed that... well umm.... you are right... my apologies... (doing this while at work study is not good..)

Well that changes my mind completely, I'm gonna say I'm still slightly suspicious of die and no and that's it.

hello Silver!

Well, can i ask you to quote me and explain why you find me suspicious? The reason youve mentioned before is my reaction to Thor questions, but i believe he voted in me because of this:

Vote: Die Prediger

Intentional choice not to put someone at L-3? 'Hai guyz, I am not scum becauze I don't pile on votes in RVS'

Exact quote.

So, can you quote my answers to him (my reaction) and explain why they make you suspect of me? Cause i think youre the first to mention it...

[Die Prediger]

Jerako, I'm a he, but I find it funny when people call me a she. I don't know why, but it happens a lot on mafia ._."

I won't answer the question about "my" last game since you were there too ^^

Hey AV!

We werent there. Would you mind to tell us about it?

[Die Prediger]

Especially since the vote in question was to

place Prediger at L-1

(close to, but not quite the hammer),

That's a lie

But you did let me at L-1, didnt you?

[Die Prediger]

unvote
vote hiphop

for still not posting here - Nacho already has a vote on him. And i dont have anything about Thor to keep my vote on him.

I know we are in the first days, but i dont like lurking.

[Die Prediger]

hey SILVER...

in case you didnt see it, can you answer my post at #69?

[Die Prediger]

I'm your other friendly neighborhood IC,
here to answer all of your questions about Mafia

3) Always claim before you're lynched; in a newbie game, you shouldn't claim vanilla townie when you're a power role. Determining when to claim is extremely difficult, so a rule of thumb here is claiming when you're at L-1. However, if you divert the lynch without claiming, it's highly recommended doing so. Claiming either outs a power role, or helps scum find one.

Hello Nacho!

I have a

question

so. Lets say youre lynched, but the mod still didnt declare night. Can you post in this period (i think you call it

twilight

), being or not a PR?

[Die Prediger]

EBWOP: read:
still didnt declare night

and didnt close the thread

.

[Die Prediger]

so basically what im saying - if this even helps at all - is that the issue of quicklynching someone therefore didn't even register in my head.

This can be classified in 2 ways:

1. Youre lying!

2. You didnt read properly the very first Mods post, where we can find, very easily the phrase:

9 Alive means 5 to Lynch

I want to vote you, because for me you are lying (how you didnt see that?), but i wont, cause you would become L-1 and that would give scum a chance to hammer someone early in the game.

FoS [no]

[Die Prediger]

You didnt know someone can be lynched with 5 votes?

If u knew it, why did you leave room for a mafia hammer?

[Die Prediger]

And you think its good to lynch someone even before 2 players posted something?

Whats the hurry on lynching?

[Die Prediger]

You think its a good or bad ideia?

If you think its bad, why have you almost done it?

[Die Prediger]

2. You didnt read properly the very first Mods post, where we can find, very easily the phrase:

9 Alive means 5 to Lynch

Haven't we been answering a handful of questions (one of them from you) by quoting the Mod's initial post? Why is it legit for you and not legit for [no]?

I dont get your question, can you reformulate it?

Btw, i asked a question about the twilight which was not in the mods post.

[Die Prediger]

2. You didnt read properly the very first Mods post, where we can find, very easily the phrase:

9 Alive means 5 to Lynch

Haven't we been answering a handful of questions (one of them from you) by quoting the Mod's initial post? Why is it legit for you and not legit for [no]?

I dont get your question, can you reformulate it?

Btw, i asked a question about the twilight which was not in the mods post.

And there we have a big difference.

I asked something that wasnt in the MODS post, so you DID NOT QUOTED IT from there. Also, that didnt influence in my actions.

But about [no], he acted before he knew something? Or he is lying about that and wanted a quick lynch to take one of the townies out?

And now, the gold question for you: What are you trying to do when you help [no] about my case on him? Are you afraid that he can be lynched?

[Die Prediger]

You think its a good or bad ideia?

If you think its bad, why have you almost done it?

[no]

Why you dont answer my questions?

And now, as youre back to L-3,

unvote
vote [no]

[Die Prediger]

Actually the twilight question was in the mod's first post and someone (pulindar?) did quote it to you. Why are you yelling about this?

First off Totally just finished a newbie game where town didn't loose a single person. super happy

Vote Die

I did quote the mod on that, Thor is right.

I'd also like to say... Thor stop stealing my ideas.

Thor asks good questions, town points for Thor.

Sorry, but i re-read again and i couldnt find it. Are you sure its there? Can you point me exactly please?

[Die Prediger]

@Prediger

In post 51 you seem to be suggesting that the reason you were not quicklynched is because the mafia were either A) Already voting for you, or B) Hadn't even seen that it was possible yet.

What about a third option? The mafia, I think, are going to be unlikely to quickhammer, especially before 24 RL hours have actually passed, because it's going to be

extremely

obvious by doing so, that they are scum.

You seem overly paranoid about being associated with the lynch, to the point of withholding your vote when it will place somebody within lynching range. Why? If you are confident enough that your vote belongs on them, why withhold it, just because there's other people who are also voting?

Yes, it can be that 3rd option. But it also can be the first ones. And they way [no] voted, with not a single reason in his post, was to quicklynch. After that, he posted a lot of excuses saying why he voted me and that he didnt know it was not a good idea to quicklynch.

About the other question: Why do you think its paranoia? And I am not sure about everyone here, so yes, I dont want to lynch someone before we have more things to work with. Hiphop didnt even post yet. I am not confident enough about my vote, of course. It can be the biggest scumtell, but OTOH it can be simply a newbie mistake.

I give you the quest back: are you confident enough about your vote?

[Die Prediger]

Yes, I am very concerned about lynching someone that is not scum. Arent you?

If [no] was on L-1 and you still hadnt voted, would you lynch him now?

[Die Prediger]

@Thor

You are more experienced than me. For me you are playing like a perfect townie. You ask questions on almost everyone, you are incisive about them, you try to dont let anything uncovered about the other players, at the same time you dont give anything to us to acuse you of being scum. So i have some quests for you:

1. Is this always your gamestyle? If not, considering you are town now, do you act different when being a mafia?

2. Isnt your gamestyle so "perfect" we can think you are a very good player surrounded by some newbies that would buy that you are town by that gamestyle?

----

To the other ICs and SEs:

How this kind of gameplay is seen in the experienced games of mafia?

[Die Prediger]

1. Is this always your gamestyle? If not, considering you are town now, do you act different when being a mafia?

That's an interesting question that I'm afraid I cannot properly answer for you. I've never had a game on mafiascum as scum (well, except one, but I replaced in during night phase for a player who flaked and had a cop identify me before I'd even posted once - so there's not much to get off my scum meta in that one). I would certainly hope that I would play differently in some ways, but probably not in a dramatic way. Certainly my gamestyle was not really different the time I played a Cop or a Doc - if that helps.

2. Isnt your gamestyle so "perfect" we can think you are a very good player surrounded by some newbies that would buy that you are town by that gamestyle?

My gameplay is "perfect" because I am full of awesome. As far as your question here, I'm not sure I'm following it - you appear to be asking me to justify why I am acting so much like a townie and not doing anything scummy? My reverse of the question would be - why aren't all of you who are also townies doing the same so it will be easy to find scum? I see no value in having to defend myself for acting too townish.

I played this way in my first game and guess what: NK on N1. Why? No one suspected me, so I was useless to mafia. Does this happens often? Mafia players use to kill those who are certainly town?

How this kind of gameplay is seen in the experienced games of mafia?

Favorably.

So all the players tend to play that way? Or are there other gameplay ways that the players like?

To answer your twilight question;

8. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; all players may continue to post.
9. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post except for a brief “Bah!”-type post.

Thanks, i had not seen it. But i dont think it changes anything about the bandwagon vote by [no]. My question was not directly related to any action.

[Die Prediger]

Ugh, I just made a rather lengthy post and it was totally eaten by the interwebs when I clicked the preview button and failed to connect to MS

At least I'll probably be a bit more concise this time.

Yes, I am very concerned about lynching someone that is not scum. Arent you?

If [no] was on L-1 and you still hadnt voted, would you lynch him now?

That seems like a moot point to me, since I already have voted, and your avoidance of the vote was on L-2, not the hammer. Neither of which applies to the situation.

You currently placed him at L-2. Are you going to unvote if somebody brings him to L-1 again?

Probably not this time. I am really not sure about [no]. I thought that being close to a lynch would make him at least say something more than

hey its cool u guys are talking about me a lot. i feel loved :aww:

before he getrs lynched. He also does not try to scumhunt (does he already knows who are the mafia, thats why?). So I will keep my vote on him until he or others change my mind.

I find your wishy-washy stance to be suspicious. The purpose of a vote is to bring about a lynch, yes? So, what, exactly, are you trying to accomplish by voting in a manner that specifically avoids lynching? Clearly, from your posts, you find [no] to be suspicious. On a scale of 1-10, how suspicious would that be, exactly?

Im not certain i could atribute a number to that, but it wouldnt be a 1 nor a 10. Lets say i suspect more on him than on all the others.

How about you, how would you answer your own question?

[Die Prediger]

EBWOP: Forgot to answer:

Avoid lynching in the beggining of the game, even before one player hadnt posted yet, seems to me a good idea. I dont feel good to do it before the almost lynched player has the chance to defend himself.

[Die Prediger]

I found Die's decision a scum-tell, as there's no particular reason to avoid an L-3, IMO. At least, it's the most scum-tell post I have found so far ITT

I originally voted for DP because he stated that he did not want to put an L-3 on someone. I originally interpreted this as him not wanting to vote for one of his own scum buddies, but then i realized i was one of the people who was voted for before he posted, so i didn't think that explanation was possible

In fact my reaction was about a L-3 on ME, not SOMEONE. So it was not about my votes, but about the votes on ME.

Contradictory, no?

[Die Prediger]

and DP that was a joke. please don't take it seriously

Thats exactly what I am doing. I was expecting you would post something more serious.

I have 2 opinions about you:

1. You didnt liked to receive a Vanilla Townie role, so you are not playing that serious.

2. You are scum.

[Die Prediger]

In fact my reaction was about a L-3 on ME, not SOMEONE. So it was not about my votes, but about the votes on ME.

I think no is referring to your intial rvs vote die

Alright, i misinterpreted this one.

[Die Prediger]

Thanks, i had not seen it. But i dont think it changes anything about the bandwagon vote by [no]. My question was not directly related to any action.

Ah, ah, ah. You *did* express doubt of [no] because of him apparently not knowing the rules that were written on the first page. This does at least show it's a mistake town can make and thus it isn't a valid scum tell (unless you're also scum and [no] is your partner). To my mind it just adds to the newb cloud around [no]. Yeah, he might be newb scum, but I want to see more scum evidence and less newb evidence.

I have to agree on that. I think Im not prepared enough to difference a newb tell from a scum tell. Yet.

It is possible the Die wagon has been started/encouraged by [no]'s scumbuddy as a way to protect his foolish/newbish partner. Conversely, [no] is potentially a very easy target for scum to lynch (not that Die isn't competing for the honor), and scum like that and would be likely to slip onto the wagon.

How about a third option? I see half of the players here are, in some way, more experienced than the others. You guys have been nice ICs for us, but at the same time you guys have been quite agressive on 2 newbies. Easy targets.

It would be good to start considering this 3rd option: we can have 2 experienced players in the mafia.

what is your feeling about how thus far all the scumhunting has been focused on the 'newbie' players and not on the 'experienced' players?

I have a feeling that that is how most games of this sort normally go since us newbie players are more likely to shed a tell vs an experienced player. It was no's actions in and of itself that put him up on the chopping block and it was die's reaction toward you that (at least for me) put him up on the chopping block. I think that day one will end with one of the two getting lynched (of course nothing is certain). I think day two will have a more general scumhunting of everyone, especially if whoever is lynched ends up flipping townie.

So you see no reason to maybe try to scumhunt the more experienced players now?

I do, as stated above.

I did not have much free time in these last days

, but i wanna watch the votes of experienced players. I will catch all the posts tomorrow night or monday. Sorry for that.

[Die Prediger]

unvote
vote hiphop

for still not posting here - Nacho already has a vote on him. And i dont have anything about Thor to keep my vote on him.

I know we are in the first days, but i dont like lurking.

What makes you think I was lurking I obviusly was flaking big difference.

Thank you for clearing that. I didnt knew that little diference. And as a matter of fact, you telling me youre being A, not B, can be just a lie.

In Iso 19 he finally scumhunts. But to me it seems he only does it because [no] almost got him lynched. Also only fos [no] at this time, because, again he doesn't want to bw. Why? To you die, what is the purpose of a vote?

Yes, i did that against [no], because to me it seems strange to get someone at L-1 at page 2. You can see he was eager to do that, he doesnt even justify himself, and just does that when asked to. For me it seems veeeery strange. If it does not for you, maybe its because you already had 9 games, and know the game better. For me it seems strange. I dont think there is just one purpose for a vote. You can use it several ways.

In iso 25 he votes in a bw, only because he wants to keep [no] at L-2.

than in iso 30

You currently placed him at L-2. Are you going to unvote if somebody brings him to L-1 again?

Probably not this time. I am really not sure about [no]. I thought that being close to a lynch would make him at least say something more than

hey its cool u guys are talking about me a lot. i feel loved :aww:

before he getrs lynched. He also does not try to scumhunt (does he already knows who are the mafia, thats why?). So I will keep my vote on him until he or others change my mind.

How can you say this is why you voted him? Just because you put him back at L-2, does not change the situation that he is at L-2. He is not anywhere closer to lynch that when AV had his vote on him. Yet even now you say if someone puts him at L-1 you will keep your vote. So why couldn't you put him at L-1? Didn't want to take the heat?

Yes, i didnt want to, in a first place. But then i realized we can bring scum out giving them the chance to lynch someone. If it was me to be lynched and that helped the town, i would be glad. I didnt realized that when i was on L1 - when i freaked out - and i was scared of being killed again in the first day.

EBWOP: Forgot to answer:

Avoid lynching in the beggining of the game, even before one player hadnt posted yet, seems to me a good idea. I dont feel good to do it before the almost lynched player has the chance to defend himself.

Yet if someone had voted him before I posted you would have kept your vote on? How is that different?

Alright, i misinterpreted this one.

What no other remark on the subject? You quoted no's post for a reason.

In conclusion Die has done nothing, but defend himself, post theories on the game, and badger [no] on one thing that [no] did, and that was an attack on Die. I see no other scumhunting( if you can his badgering of [no]), and he has posted 36 times. 36 posts of fluff.

vote Die Prediger

Oh and Die it is good to act town. Town should not be afraid to be Nk. It must mean they are doing something right. Don't you agree?

Nothing? Dont you think town can make a point just on the accusations on me? I think that for that, at least, i can be useful.

I have to say it is hard to face a game with so much experienced players. I am learning how to play - but its hard. You guys are doing a good job, and i see that only throwing out some attacks is not enough. You have to go after everybody.

Also I doubt if I was around Die would have been lynched. I would have put my vote on before he hit L-2. I doubt anyone else here would have put someone at L-1 besides [no] 2 pages in this game. Therefore he would not have been lynched.

"If" is a far away land. We can never know what would have gone "if".

In my experience regarding newbies such as [no], as in newbies that throw out a lot of tells. they have been scum 3 out of 5 times. So a little more than half. Either way not enough data to policy lynch.

In my previous game a newbie was playing just like [no]. Flipped townie after lynched.

[Die Prediger]

Preacher, what's your read on [no] at the moment? If I were to vote [no] now and put him at L-1, would you still keep your vote on him? What do you make of Jerako and his case?

At the moment my read on [no] keeps the same, and it wont change because he is not here anymore. My read on Sauron, for now, its way less scummy than [no].

So,

unvote

[Die Prediger]

Die, do you want me to ask my questions for you again?

This goes to Sauron too, though I'm more understandable since you replaced in.

No AV, Im slowly going through the posts and i will answer them all during the day.

[Die Prediger]

With no looking for a replacement... i feel like it's a mega sign but I will wait as to everyone else's thoughts before starting an action.

If [no] replacing out is a "mega-sign" why do you need others to move first? Shouldn't you move, so you can show us the "mega-sign" and lead the way to lynching the scum?

I think he is afraid of looking scummy.

And also i disagree its a sign of scumminess - for me it seems a lot more of a newbie that got pressured and dont know how to defend himself, got bored and left the game.

The step Silver takes to attack [no]/Sauron is more scummy than the replacement. You try to give an easy target to town, saying he is scum for that - when he flips town after lynched, its also easy to say it was a mistake, cause its hard to tell the difference btw newbie tell and scum tell.

For this reason,

vote Silver

[Die Prediger]

@ All Others: What do you think of the recent events that have taken place? No's replacement and me and thor's little talk?

What do i think? I think that accusation is a bunch of bs. For all you know he could be a townie that had enough. I can point you to some games. I played in a few, where sometimes the scum replace, and sometimes the town. Look at Die. I accuse him and 48 hours later he has yet to respond. (

mod prod

, I know. I am a hypocrite, but so what) Do you think it is legit that I add that in my case? Same kind of thing.

Hey, i warned i had little time, whats the problem with that? And i am answering everybody. If i fail to answert everything, please let me know, ill be glad to answer you - or the others.

[Die Prediger]

Die's 2 experienced players on the mafia team idea is silly, but I want aspects considered and want to know what he'll do about it.

Why it is silly?

The chances are 2/9 for everyone!

[Die Prediger]

How about a third option? I see half of the players here are, in some way, more experienced than the others. You guys have been nice ICs for us, but at the same time you guys have been quite agressive on 2 newbies. Easy targets.

Even if this is true it can only really apply to Pulindar and myself since Nacho and hiphop were not participating at that time.

You and Pulindar? Good place to start with.

It would be good to start considering this 3rd option: we can have 2 experienced players in the mafia.

Though I do not think it is reasonable to presume both Mafia are experienced at this time, I otherwise like that you desire to suspect the experienced players. What are you planning to do with this thought?

I Will do an ISO on everybody in a couple of hours. Starting with you, if you are OK with that

[Die Prediger]

Die, you missed alot of questions, may I ask why?
Do you plan on going back and answering them?
What do you think of the goings on so far?
Who is your top three suspects and why?

Well i already got back and i am answering questions. Next step is to do an ISO on everybody.

So ill ask for a couple more hours to do that.

[Die Prediger]

--------------------------------
Die

How about a third option? I see half of the players here are, in some way, more experienced than the others. You guys have been nice ICs for us, but at the same time you guys have been quite agressive on 2 newbies. Easy targets.

It would be good to start considering this 3rd option: we can have 2 experienced players in the mafia.

Die, I don't like this. If you think some people are tunneling call them out. Don't make a general statement. I am a person. No different than you. Is it not reasonable to say that newbies will make more slips? So wouldn't than more people attack them? What would happen if we didn't say anything? Do you think that they would not do the same thing again? In my first game, I was hit hard, by scum and town. I have learned that some things make someone scummy, and I prefer to let scum do them. I recommend that you read this post made by vrk(scum)[yes VRk, I am still quoting that quote, one of the best quotes I have ever seen, that applies to a newbie] in one of my first games. Believe me this is something that applies to you.

What do you think of of Thor's case against SB?

What do you think of SB's response?

Why do you think that newbies should not be attacked?

Your opinion is vital in moving the game foward.

Also take into account that Jerako, and SB (Two newbies), are attacking an easy target(also a newbie). Do you have a problem with that, or do you think that sometimes mistakes are because someone is scum?
----------------

Thanks hiphop, Ill try to learn from that.

About Thor and Silver: as you can notice, i already placed my vote on Silver. The reason i did that is because of the anger post. I cant believe that someone gets so angered on that pressure by being townie. He overreacted without reason, i think, because the points Thor raised were not misrepresenting Silver.

Anyway, personally, I really dont apreciate to play a game with that language. I am on pressure since the beggining and i dont have been in anyway not gentle.

I didnt said that newbies should not be attacked. I just said that we need to attack others than only the newbies, which is what happened. That was the reason i came up with the possibility of the 2 scums being experienced. And it is not impossible.

I dont have a problem with Jerako and SB attacking a newbie (and now i see SB is not voting...). I didnt said the mafia are 2 experienced. I said they could be. But attacking newbies is a part of the game. I just thought it was strange that exp. guys did not attacked each other at that point.

[Die Prediger]

Do you feel that thor has been doing a good job with pressure on me?
Do you feel that hiphop has been doing a good job with pressure on me?

--------------------------------------------Die---------------------------------------------------
Could you also answer the two questions above
Do you feel that hiphop and thor make a good team?
You seemed to be suspicious of Thor in previous posts, does that still stand to be true? How will you pursue it?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Silver!

About Thor: He made a pretty good job Just look at your reaction!
About hiphop: Not as pressurizing as Thor.

I coundt see anything until now that would make Thor and hiphop a team. Do you ask this question because both have been pressuring you?

No Im not suspicious of Thor more than of the others. I will do an ISO on Thorm and on the others. Lets see if i have something to pursuit.

[Die Prediger]

In my previous game a newbie was playing just like [no]. Flipped townie after lynched.

And you then pressured [no] heavily because...?

=========================
The above is what I consider the most relevant part of this post. Everything below is basic jabbing at Die, but I believe the above question really needs to be considered by others and answered by Die.
=========================

I voted for [no] because he let me at L-1 too fast and without reason. Maybe he waited to someone to hammer, maybe he miscounted and thought he was the hammer. That, for me, seemed a lot suspicious.

About your quote where i say that in my previous game a townie was lynched because of newb tells: I dont know how to answer, maybe i would have voted on him (talking about the last game) if i were alive in that point. I did attacked him on day one, before other player had a majestic scum slip.

Die's 2 experienced players on the mafia team idea is silly, but I want aspects considered and want to know what he'll do about it.

Why it is silly?

The chances are 2/9 for everyone!

Because the logic behind it is silly

1. the experienced players will have an easier time moving a lynch on a Newbie
2. A Newbie is moving towards being lynched
3. Therefore 2 Exp. players are the scum team.

That is just silly as there is no logic to support the concept. Yes, statistics say it is 2/9 for any given player to be scum - but by you adding in that both of the players are experienced you're creating a 2/4 pool in your own head with no reasoning to back up your belief other then an arbitrary declaration.

Here's an example to consider;

1. I consider the letter 'u' scummy.
2. There are four players with the letter 'u' in their usernames.
3. Therefore 2 of them must be the scum team.

It's a 2/9 chance for anyone to be scum! I have just created a method that has the exact same chance of catching both scum as your method. Do you think my method is silly? (you should) If so, you have to be able to explain to me why your method is less silly then this before you should expect me to take it seriously.

You are correct. I dont have anything serious on that. I just threw a possibility. And even if you think it is silly, it is not impossible. but it really bothered you.

I Will do an ISO on everybody in a couple of hours. Starting with you, if you are OK with that

I'm going to say no, I'm not okay with this, just to see if that effects your response.

Your language here suggests that you believe I am perhaps more likely scum then others believe, and includes a suggested warning of 'look out, I'll be ISOing you soon, buster' What do you see as the advantage in warning me that you'll be investigating me? I couldn't stop you if I wanted to, and making underlying implications that you think I'm guilty while admitting it's before you've even investigated me just seems odd.

If you're town my basic advice is - suspect everyone, and keep questioning preconceived beliefs. You'll only doom yourself if you decide *prior* to checking on someone whether or not you believe they are scum/innocent because all the evidence you see will be colored by this belief.

If you're scum, please continue as you are.

Oh no, you did not understand it. I dont think you are more suspicious than the others. In fact, and of course, i wanna do an ISO for anyone, and i thought to start with the ones i suspect

less

. But you seem, again, bothered.
But really, i didnt mean anything like you thought.

[Die Prediger]

THOR

Ive done an ISO, and its more like a bunch of info, finishing with some conclusion. Here it goes:

Votes for me because of my intentional vote to not put someone on L-3. Beats me justifying i was contradicting myself and asked me some questions, all due to my gameplay, not exposing himself. But says to Pulindar he is not sure about me, and that i did not provide any real scum tell. Then, he does some questions to AV, which are not interessant at all. He theoryzes about voting someone because of his []. It was RVS. I cant see where this questions can take him – and if he wants to get somewhere here. Votes for [no], because his strange vote on me. Questions to see his newb level. This would lead him to differenciate newb tell from scum tell. Talks to AV about [no] and the L-1/hammer case. Fishing. Goes on [no] again, about his vote on me. Asks [no] about the impossibility he raised about Thor being scum:

Why wouldn't it be possible for me to be scum and just trying to work a quick lynch on Die at this stage of the game?

Great point. Only scum is sure about townies.

Keep asking questions, this time to Jerako and Silver. Not too hard on Jerako, though. After, keep his hard job on [no] and Silver, and pressures Jerako to place a vote, or show someone “more suspect”. Isnt this a way to encourage a newbie to bandwagon? On someone who already had a few votes? And Jerako, then, votes to [no] – the one who had a case against him, with participation of Thor.

Says me and [no] are competing for the honor of being easy target. Again he calls atention on this, asking AV about why he wasnt on one of the bandwagons. After this, goes hard on Silver. On this point i have to say he already made a lot of questions, to everyone, so he has good points to basis himself. After Silver answers, he goes even harder on him. OTOH, he keeps asking/answering with the other players, not hard as he goes on Silver, even suspecting me too.

Conclusion: I dont see (or i cant see) Thor revealing too much of himself. But...
1. He attacks people, asks a lot of questions (even some of them are not that useful)
2. In a part of this game, he asks a lot about the bandwagoning to some players. Here at this point i think he was fishing scum – Who would be interested on one of these lynches? This is the question i think he made for himself. And this is the point that makes me think that Thor is town. I can have missed other fish questions, though it would just compliment what I am saying.

[Die Prediger]

You are correct. I dont have anything serious on that. I just threw a possibility. And even if you think it is silly, it is not impossible. but it really bothered you.

It did bother me and I explained specifically why it bothered me. Do my reasons for being bothered seem strange? Do you think I should be more supportive of poor logic then I have been?

Explaining again, it was not logic, it is a possibility. I just mentioned that it was not impossible. I didnt even tryed to justify that, i just threw it in the air. It seems funny to me that you got so bothered like i was directly attacking someone or you. I was not. But it remains a possibility. Or you can say for sure 3 of 4 exp players are town?

But you seem, again, bothered.
But really, i didnt mean anything like you thought.

Okay, so we have established that you believe I seem bothered by your posts (I was and am, so you're reading me correctly) now the question is, what are you going to do with that piece of information? When you just kind of quietly note a piece of information "hey, guys, look at him, he seems angry." or "Hey, doesn't Player X seem quiet?" You're providing what I refer to as softselling of a case - insofar as you're pointing out things that may or may not be scummy without actually saying whether or not you yourself think they are scummy.

I think soft selling is scummy.

What is your opinion of me being bothered, and why are you mentioning it?[/quote]

Well now you can see already i dont find you scummy until now. My opinion of you getting bothered is like "poor noob, he doesnt even know what he is talking about", but i think you didnt got my point, which i try to explain above.

About mentioning: would it be helpful, in anyway, to keep silent about something i think that may help town in the future? Would it be helpful, in anyway, to be silent?

[Die Prediger]

I just thought it was strange that exp. guys did not attacked each other at that point.

Why? Had the experienced people done something scummy in your eyes?

Not attacking each other and going only on newbs, for me, can be scummy. It isnt for you?

[Die Prediger]

Geez so much to read...

Vote: Die Prediger

Reasons in die's sections
--------------------------------------------------------------------Die

The step Silver takes to attack [no]/Sauron is more scummy than the replacement. You try to give an easy target to town, saying he is scum for that - when he flips town after lynched, its also easy to say it was a mistake, cause its hard to tell the difference btw newbie tell and scum tell.
For this reason,


vote Silver

I said I felt it was a mega tell that he was scum, though I wasn't certain. I also didn't vote for him because I wanted to see if it was in general agreement that it was a mega tell. I'm not sure what you mean in the last part. Are you saying if he ended up getting lynched thanks in part to me I could easily use that defense? I'm fine that you voted for me and all but for those reasons alone makes me wonder about you.

About Thor and Silver: as you can notice, i already placed my vote on Silver. The reason i did that is because of the anger post. I cant believe that someone gets so angered on that pressure by being townie. He overreacted without reason, i think, because the points Thor raised were not misrepresenting Silver.

You now change up your reasoning for my vote... which is interesting. Again I question the reasoning though as it was a method that failed miserably. I'm not sure how I overreacted without reason as I revealed the method. Is it that you don't believe it was a plan to try to get hip-hop?

You are correct. I do contradict myself, but i hadnt notice that till now. You can take both of them.

A plan to get hiphop? Who would think of that? You were talking to someone outside the thread to plan something? Because this is the first time you mention

Until these questions are answered I'm going to vote for you. You seem to be contradicting yourself and are still seem to be trying to be focused on "staying alive" rather than helping out the town.

True. And it has been hard to keep defending myself. Today, for example, i answered a lot of questions, and had time for an ISO just on Thor. I will go for the others tomorrow. I have almost no time left now.

Anyway, personally, I really dont apreciate to play a game with that language. I am on pressure since the beggining and i dont have been in anyway not gentle.

I apologize for this and I will keep my posts PG-13 from now on in (maybe an occasional slip here and there but yeah.)

About Thor: He made a pretty good job Smile Just look at your reaction!
About hiphop: Not as pressurizing as Thor.

I coundt see anything until now that would make Thor and hiphop a team. Do you ask this question because both have been pressuring you?

Which reaction are you talking about? I asked this as hiphop... to me seemed to jump on somewhat randomly to pressure me.
Also I realize the above may possibly be somewhat of a language barrier but until the questions are answered I'll keep my vote on him.

[/quote]

About your angry reaction.
And answering about language: I am brazilian, my first language is the portuguese. But i thought i was better on english!