Mini 957 - Everyone's a Hero Mafia - Game Over

[Thor665]

RVS is like the source for N0 info for town. If you end it really quickly, you'll have, in all chances, nothing more than useless pieces of info to start with.

This is the closest thing I see to logic in your rebuttal, and yet I don't see why it applies. If the only purpose of RVS is to get to know people through their reactions to silly points the only way you can claim it's bad I ended it is by pointing out how it's now impossible for us to learn about players through their reactions to serious points. What's the difference? Is it just that scum will allow themselves to be caught if they're saying silly things? Do you manage all your best scumhunting through the RVS?

You've also made it clear you're voting me because you think I'm scum - isn't this a serious vote and the ending of the RVS for you? Why does your serious vote not make you scummy and why does my serious vote make me scummy?

Also, you have pointed out how my plan is obviously scummy for stopping RVS and trying to bandwagon you early. Five players are voting for you - do you think we are all obv. scum, or do you think there are some confused townies on this bandwagon?

Finally - what are your reads on the other bunny wagon, Doombunny? Is this also a scummy attempt to end RVS, or are these reasonable points to vote for?

[Zhero]

During serious game, there's no advantage whatsoever. In fact, I hunt players who selfvote themselves. However, in the RVS, I really don't care much. It's like attacking someone who claims jester cop vig bulletproof. That's just a joke. No point in paying a second thought.


RVS is like the source for N0 info for town. If you end it really quickly, you'll have, in all chances, nothing more than useless pieces of info to start with. In fact, thanks to you town knows almost nothing on most players. Yes, you may find me scummy, but, what about the others? What if you quicklynch me and you realize you only wasted a day and a townie for that? Scum would want to end the RVS quickly. After all, they already have info, and they would want to prevent town for getting more. I really dislike and find scummy players who act early as town and try to get the rvs over, among other things, because I find that a scum move.

I'm not sure how you can call the RVS a good source of info while simultaneously saying that tells are weaker there. If joking is allowed and not worth analyzing in the RVS, isn't it better to get out as soon as we can?

Comparing the end of the RVS to quickhammering right off the bat also seems silly.

[semioldguy]

@SemioldGuy:

Bunny didn’t tell town how to react to her self vote; she perpetuated a part of the game I find useful; she kept RVS going in a manner that got reactions from everyone thus making people start talking while not outlining how they should be talking.

Your explanation essentially defines what it is to end the random voting stage. As soon as you are getting reactions from players it is no longer random, it is reaction-based. If you are getting reactions from something, then there is nothing random about it any longer.

Self-voting is one of the best ways to ensure that RVS immediately is terminated.

[Timeater]

@Timeater: You don’t like my vote because I’m voting him for his name lulwhut?

Why do you feel my name is a functional scumtell that should be taken seriously? Also, any answer you have to this, why does it not then apply to Timeater finding your vote scummy? If you find a name scummy clearly he can find you voting for a name scummy - yes?

Yes. Its either you have legitimate reasons for a vote or you dont. It cant be a melange of both silly and serious. Its one or the other. Anything less and I consider it a scumtell. His name is completely irrelevant. Why bring it up unless you are looking for something to attack him with? You do it in more than one post.

Maybe I'm just being silly. Maybe just i'm over-analyzing a few obvious jests directed towards his lynch target. Maybe thats all they are, nothing more than silly little remarks that have no consequence.

Or maybe...

[Timeater]

Your explanation essentially defines what it is to end the random voting stage. As soon as you are getting reactions from players it is no longer random, it is reaction-based. If you are getting reactions from something, then there is nothing random about it any longer.

Self-voting is one of the best ways to ensure that RVS immediately is terminated.

If self-voting is such an expert way of getting out of the RVS, why didn't you do it?

[semioldguy]

RVS is like the source for N0 info for town. If you end it really quickly, you'll have, in all chances, nothing more than useless pieces of info to start with. In fact, thanks to you town knows almost nothing on most players.

Do you believe that self-voting will allow any possible remnants of a random voting stage to continue? If so, why or what would make you believe this?

If you think the random voting stage could have been useful, why was your first action in the game something that is sure to kill it? If you don't think a self vote during the RVS would end it outright or be the cause of its end, then point me to a game where this has ever been the case.

Scum would want to end the RVS quickly. After all, they already have info, and they would want to prevent town for getting more. I really dislike and find scummy players who act early as town and try to get the rvs over, among other things, because I find that a scum move.

But your vote was sure to end the RVS quickly. If you look back at the first few posts of the game after yours, players aren't commenting on Thor665's wagon attempt or desire to end RVS, they are commenting on your self-vote first. YOU ended the random voting stage.

Wanting to end RVS quickly or not is largely playstyle dependent and not necessarily a tell either way. But since you self-admittedly think RVS is helpful, why would you ever take an action certain to end it?

@Snow_Bunny
What are your thoughts of McGriddle?

[semioldguy]

If self-voting is such an expert way of getting out of the RVS, why didn't you do it?

When I came to the game, RVS was long over. Even if I had wanted to end the RVS I didn't even have the option to try.

[semioldguy]

Vote: TheButtonmen

[Timeater]

When I came to the game, RVS was long over. Even if I had wanted to end the RVS I didn't even have the option to try.

Have you self-voted in any previous here games to end the RVS?

[semioldguy]

Have you self-voted in any previous here games to end the RVS?

No. If I am to end the random voting stage I prefer to do so constructively, not destructively.

Barring unusual mechanics and circumstances, self-voting is not something I would ever do.

[Timeater]

@SOG

I think you are giving Snow Bunny too much credit. I am guessing Bunny was thinking nothing of it and the repercussions when she self-voted. I'm guessing she just thought it would be a novel thing to do when everyone was just joking around and she would revert her vote soon and no one would think anything of it.

Little did she suspect the amount of meta and "game-theory" hounds in this game.

She claimed a self-vote was a random vote. I mean come on. In her fourth and largest post, she is contradictory to almost an extreme. Anyhoo, this is one of those posts I've gotten to writing before realizing what its about. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from questioning bunny, I'm not trying to invalidate your methods or even claim bunny is a bad player, you know what, I dont really know what I'm saying. I'm just babbling. I'll shut up now.

[semioldguy]

She has played with me several time before. She should be at least slightly aware of my game-theory-houndiness. If not, then invoking a little self-awareness to her own actions is helpful as well.

I'd also prefer her to answer the questions directed at her, not you.

[Thor665]

Vote: TheButtonmen

Prior to this vote you were discussing RVS with Buttonmen, he has yet to respond and now you are voting him. What happened between now and the last time you responded to Buttonmen to now make it worthwhile to vote him?

[semioldguy]

TheButtonmen had responded. I intended to vote for him in Post 52. When I realized I hadn't, I corrected my error.

[iLord]

Vote Count the Second

Snow_Bunny (5): Riceballtail, Thor665, Doombunny9, esuriospiritus, Timeater
Doombunny9 (3): McGriddle, Zhero, MonkeyMan576
Thor665 (2): TheButtonmen, Snow_Bunny
TheButtonmen (1): semioldguy

Not Voting (1): pman5595

With twelve alive, it's seven to lynch.

[MonkeyMan576]

The whole "self voting is scummy" idea is just silly. It's been done so many times in so many games that there's no way scum would do it to try and thwart the town. It just brings to much attention, and usually scum don't like a lot of attention. It's a null tell at best, and possibly a town tell.

[semioldguy]

I'd argue that the tells and implications of a self-vote are highly contextual, as is the case with most tells, but in this instance the self-vote itself is likely null.

[Doombunny9]

Wrong, I am voting you because you are OVER defensive, You are putting words in my mouth now and trying to make it seem like I don't know what I am talking about. Misleading town, another tic to add onto my LoS on you.

I guess I misread that. I thought that "I'm transferring it to a non RV" meant you're transferring it to another player.

Anyway, I was just able to skim through what was recently posted so if I missed anything else pointed at me the please point it out.

[Riceballtail]

UNVOTE

This whole self-voting in the random phase makes someone scum is ridiculous. Seriously.

[semioldguy]

This whole self-voting in the random phase makes someone scum is ridiculous. Seriously.

Most players are not saying this.

If you are going to bother to unvote, why not put a vote down somewhere else? If you think someone else is being ridiculous, why not start questioning them about it?

There are things being discussed other than the scumminess of a self-vote. Care to touch on any of those topics?

[Doombunny9]

I agree with Semi, some of the discussion going on has nothing to do with the game or scumhunting at all. If you want to argue about whether self voting or ending the RVS early then do it outside the game.

[esuriospiritus]

Ugh. I started a post for this but I'm too braindead to finish it right now. I will be able to post again approx 16-22 hours from now. Apologies.

[TheButtonmen]

A)Thor continues to only ask empty questions; Asking people why they are voting and/or what they think. He is doing his best to lead town while providing little to no content.

B) Agree with Doom/Semi; Debates on theory have a time and a place; that is not here or now. Big discussions on theory, IIOA and the like are bad for town as they scum a way to look involved and active while not providing content.

[Timeater]

I saw Snow Bunny twice browsing these forums in the last 24 hours. Why the reluctance to respond, defend, or participate?

I agree with Semi, some of the discussion going on has nothing to do with the game or scumhunting at all. If you want to argue about whether self voting or ending the RVS early then do it outside the game.

Do you really think talking about the RVS and its implications is so far off topic it doesn't even belong in the thread? Is that what you

really

think? Do you really think what we are discussing has nothing to do with the "game or scumhunting at all"?

Really?

[Timeater]

A)Thor continues to only ask empty questions; Asking people why they are voting and/or what they think. He is doing his best to lead town while providing little to no content.

B) Agree with Doom/Semi; Debates on theory have a time and a place; that is not here or now. Big discussions on theory, IIOA and the like are bad for town as they scum a way to look involved and active while not providing content.

I would like to know, Mister Button, what content have you been providing?

(Besides the occasional snipe at thor, inane observations & agreements, and preachy-know-it-all-mafia-theory-tidbits)