Newbie 937 ~ Mafia Lite [Game Over]

[Red Star]

Yeah, we have four days before the deadline, let's make use of them by holding off votes so we can get maximum discussion.

[razorback]

you know i discussion seems useful but in the end we all know who's going to die.

[skerterg]

Exilon, I would hold off waiting at least until kelikar gets back. Also, we need to hear opinions from everyone here. (mask man? Are you there?). Mine is that razorback is not sure-fire scum, at least not that much you guys make it out to be, but just a townie who is not of any help to the town and only serves to distract it by writing like scum. Though this is bad and one can argue that he deserves to be lynched, I don't feel like wasting a vote on him.

[razorback]

well i think your over looking the fact even if write like scum i think there is scum amog us even if no one will listen to me. i'm sure that i'm right about redstar.

[Red Star]

How can you be so sure if you haven't even presented a case? Coherently prove that I am scum, instead of just saying that it's obvious and that you're sure you're right.

[razorback]

ahhh i know i sound half crazed now but you know ten out of 12 i'm always right so i'm going to stay on what i know best play the odds . and hope the town will trust me. to the end if they don't then well i will be lynched.

[Red Star]

i know i sound half crazed now but you know ten out of 12 i'm always right

You don't sound half crazed, you make Cthulhu seem sane. You say that you are 83% always right? This makes no sense.

and hope the town will trust me

This is a game of Mafia. In mafia, no-one trusts each other, it's all about who makes the most logical and reasoned argument (or who's luckiest). You've completely failed to present any case, even when constantly asked. If you could present a case with even a glimmer of sense (and use a spell checker) you might be taken seriously.

[Leafsnail]

I don't think we should hold off. I think anyone who feels sure razorback is scum should hammer. Discussion is always easier with one dead scum.

You might say it would reduce the info we get, but seeing who is prepared to hammer and who isn't provides a lot of info, especially if razorback flips scum. Certainly, I find it interesting when someone accuses someone of being definate scum and yet holds the hammer off them.

[razorback]

ahh you think so do you it alwway on or the other and you know thing's are hardest on us you waste townie and well you know the end result don't all of you.

[KittyMo]

Vote Count XV:

[3] razorback - (Leafsnail, kelikar, horrordude0215)

[2] Red Star - (popsofctown, razorback)
[1] horrordude0215 - (skerterg)

[0] ahoda - ()
[0] Exilon - ()
[0] keikar - ()
[0] Kranix - ()
[0] skerterg - ()
[0] popsofctown - ()
[0] Leafnsail - ()

[3]

Not voting

- (Exilon, mask man, Red Star)

With

9

alive, it's

5

to lynch!

Deadline is at Wednesday, April 28, 2010 at 4:00:00 PM (Sacramento time)

Prods & Replacements

mask man is being prodded.

[razorback]

still stand's at three votes waiting tosee what happen's. in the end of the day but hay what can you do right.

[Red Star]

Crap, I can't take it anymore! Even if he is town, I don't care at all, his posts make no sense whatsoever, and if he survived he would be a huge pain in the side to the town. His last two posts are incomprehensable, so imagine having him in lylo. In all honesty, I don't particularly care about his alignment anymore, I just want him to shut up.

Vote: razorback

[popsofctown]

Incoherence is sometimes readable. Razorback seems to have town-aligned incoherence rather than scum-aligned incoherence. He seems to consistently sound like he's coming from a town aligned perspective, and on the most recent pages hasn't been overly concerned with surviving but concerned with getting Red Star lynched instead. Whether he's right on Red Star's alignment, this is a demented form of scumhunting so I think he's demented town.

[razorback]

no i just havr yo rush i have my nephew here with right because i'm baby sitting and i don't have time to check thing's right at the moment. and chase little noha around the house so forgive me if my baby sitting is abit more important then checking my spelling.

[skerterg]

OK, isn't now the time for razorback to claim a power role if he has one? It seems that he is the one who will be lynched.

Red Star, I don't think you're acting based on logic now; you are only voting him because he doesn't make any sense. Though he does not help the town and I agree that it would be nice for his posts to be more comprehensible (and that it would be frightening to have him at lylo), I don't like the fact that that is the only reason you are voting. I thought you said that you were an analytical person. To me that means that you act based on evidence. The only reason to get rid of razorback is to get rid of a distraction to the town who seems to get on everyone's bad side. I mean, how many posts of the last week deal with anything besides razorback or his accusations of Red Star?

Red Star, I have to suspect you now. You had a vote on razorback (from RVS) which you withdrew. Now you put it back, the reason being that he annoys you. Also, Exilon had indicated that he would vote for razorback; it convenient now for you to put him at L-1 so that you won't have to hammer, when someone else will.

Please, everyone, don't let razorback distract you. Don't tunnelvision him. Even if he is mafia, there is one other, and if he isn't, two others. At least talk about other suspects before voting for him. I have yet to see anyone with any meaningful discussion on what I had to say about horrordude0215, etc. (besides horrordude0215 himself). We have three more days. Let's not waste them.

My list now goes:

---Scummiest---

horrordude0215: I still hold to this belief, since not too much has happened except posts regarding razorback.
Red Star: For reasons stated above.
mask man: Not posting is just not a good idea.
kelikar: V/LA so not much information here.
razorback: Not helpful to the town but his style makes him suspect.
Leafsnail: Presses voting razorback. Uses the hammer to gain information.
popsofctown: Doesn't seem to be distracted by razorback.
Exilon: Ready to vote for razorback.

---Cleanest---

Exilon, before you vote for him, consider other people at first. Please give your views on them. It is easy to pick on someone who doesn't defend himself very well.

[Exilon]

Exilon, before you vote for him, consider other people at first. Please give your views on them. It is easy to pick on someone who doesn't defend himself very well.

Don't worry- I'm not willing to hammer anyone until everyone has got their say. In my last post, I didn't say much, mainly because I wanted to see Red Star's reaction. I didn't lie - I am willing and ready to hammer Razorback, and I think I made it clear why: it's not because of his playstyle, or that he doesn't write very well, but that he really didn't address anything of what I specifically asked him to answer (apart from one or two cases, IIRC, but even that was a little vague), and because I believed he lied.

Anyway, it seems kinda weird for Red Star to just freak out like that and just go for the vote - he was the first one to state he didn't want anyone dead before the deadline because of a quickhammer, and suddenly votes again out of pure frustration? That doesn't really make sense - as for his analysis, it was there, Razorback just didn't really address it or try to defend himself. there was that series of quotes which individually do seem to point somewhere, but when all are taken into context (and even some don't need this) they don't sound that bad.

Besides, we have this very nicely placed "lurker" (again?) which could suddenly appear and hammer a potential townie. Knowing this, and according to what red star has stated about his playstyle, it's a conflicting that he'd vote.

I don't know if I should state all my views - I tend to not be very vocal about my early suspicions because they take a while to grow, and scum can use most information about the player's views against them. (and it isn't viable to lie about reads just to confuse scum as that confuses town much more).

Anyway, besides from Red Star, I got a very weird vibe from LeafSnail post 257.

I don't think we should hold off. I think anyone who feels sure razorback is scum should hammer. Discussion is always easier with one dead scum.

You might say it would reduce the info we get, but seeing who is prepared to hammer and who isn't provides a lot of info, especially if razorback flips scum. Certainly, I find it interesting when someone accuses someone of being definate scum and yet holds the hammer off them.

First part he says "discussion is always easier with one dead scum.". Was I the only one who picked up on this and noticed Leafsnail does not even consider Razorback being town? Even if what he means is that he believes Razorback is scum (and notice how he doesn't really make any mention of his stance on him), then accoridng to what he said, he SHOULD HAVE VOTED ON HIM, and he didn't - so there seems to be some kind of contradiction here.

And on that second part - I don't know if he's addressing me or Red Star. If it's me, then it seems a litle iffy because I think I have explained myself and I didn't really say "Razorback is obviously scum", if I recall corectly, at least.

If it's Red Star, then it's interesting when in his next post Red Star votes. Could that be seen as some kind of message / taunt that Red Star picked up on?

And that's all, for now. Rest of peeps, any thoughts?

[Leafsnail]

Exilon - I can't hammer someone I'm already voting for. I've stated my stance on Razorback several times (scum).

What I am saying is that if anyone has razorback as scum they should go ahead and hammer him. We get more info about who's prepared to hammer who that way.

Red Star's reluctance to vote someone he had marked as guarenteed scum a few pages ago is very interesting, and he never gave an adequate answer why he unvoted his prime suspicion. And almost all his posts give off this strange active-lurkery feel.

The thing is, I don't realy see a razorback/ Red Star scumteam... if razorback does flip town, Red Star is the next one to look at.

[razorback]

i told you people take down redstar already quit wasteing your time on me. kill that god dam scum before the deadline hits what part of that don't you get?

[skerterg]

Skertberg's case is decent, and horrordude's defense is decent. Meh.

Can you elaborate on this? Which part of my case did you like/not like, and which part of horrordude's defense did you like/not like? What points of mine were valid, if any? Who do you think are potential scum-pairs?

The thing is, I don't realy see a razorback/ Red Star scumteam... if razorback does flip town, Red Star is the next one to look at.

I agree with this. I don't think they can be scum buddies. In fact, if we were to change votes to Red Star now, I would be okay with following along and voting for him, even if he is my second choice. I heavily suspect that razorback is just a clueless townie and Red Star (and possibly others) is taking advantage of this. Like I said before, it's easy to attack someone who cannot defend himself well. Much as how I believed Kranix was not lurking, just being inactive, so do I believe that razorback is not scum, just playing as a townie very poorly and helping scum by doing so (basically by allowing them to gain a turn as people lynch him).

[Red Star]

Even if razorback is a clueless townie, he hasn't actually contributed much to the thread. If he was to remain around, imagine how

useful

he'd be in, say, lylo. That's why I voted him.

Also, Leafsnail, I never claimed he was guaranteed scum, I said he was the most suspicious. Now, I've changed my assessment to really idiotic townie who isn't helping much at all. He has avoided so many points requested of him it's not funny, and he's had the time to look up 'meta' but not write a coherent case.

This is anti-town play.

razorback- If you have a power-role, please claim.

mask man has only posted twice, which strikes me as suspicious

popsofctown's last three posts consisted of saying:
'Razorback is too scummy to be scum'
'Razorback is so funny and I wish we couldn't lynch him so I can laugh at him more.
'Razorback is probably demented town'
Make what you will of that.

he never gave an adequate answer why he unvoted his prime suspicion

Yes I did. I said that I wanted discussion to continue until the deadline, so that someone couldn't just come on and hammer. Then I re-voted, for the reasons I stated above.

Three things I'd like right now are for horrordude0215, mask man and kelikar to post.

[KittyMo]

Vote Count XV:

[4] razorback - (Leafsnail, kelikar, horrordude0215, Red Star)

[2] Red Star - (popsofctown, razorback)
[1] horrordude0215 - (skerterg)

[0] ahoda - ()
[0] Exilon - ()
[0] keikar - ()
[0] Kranix - ()
[0] skerterg - ()
[0] popsofctown - ()
[0] Leafnsail - ()

[2]

Not voting

- (Exilon, mask man)

With

9

alive, it's

5

to lynch!

Deadline is at Wednesday, April 28, 2010 at 4:00:00 PM (Sacramento time)

Prods & Replacements

mask man has yet to respond to his prod.

“We cannot be sure of having something to live for unless we are willing to die for it.” ~ Che Guavara

[Red Star]

Um, I think the number on the votecount is wrong, you might want to fix that.

Fixed! Thanks! =] ~Kitty

[razorback]

vanilla townie but i don't know what help it will be to me.

[Exilon]

Exilon - I can't hammer someone I'm already voting for. I've stated my stance on Razorback several times (scum).

Gah you're right sorry sorry sorry << I missed you were actually the very first vote. And it was a little late at night, so... Anyway, my point was that, if Razorback ends up flipping town, that's something worth looking at (he voting after what you said).

[Leafsnail]

Actually, it seems the rules of this game only require plurality at deadline, so we don't NEED a hammerer. I'd still like one, though, for info reasons.