Mini 961: Insane Asylum II: GAME OVER :O!

[StrangerCoug]

I hereby understand and confirm my role (and force Glork to do so).

That ability isn't rapid action! You have to wait til N1 to force confirms!

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: bv310

for sucking.

[StrangerCoug]

Unvote: bv310
Vote: UncertainKitten

for calling me a jerk.

THAT

was uncalled for

Ah, once bv310 gets it, it'll all be in good fun. I need a good sense of humor.

Unvote

I think Iecerint just ended he random voting stage, so I don't feel justified putting the vote back just yet. I also don't want to automatically assume the mod is in the game.

[StrangerCoug]

Glork's bugging me. Right now I feel he's taking his spat with SocioPath the wrong way, and SocioPath comes off town to me, if frustrated.

Vote: Glork

Also, now that Tarhalindur reminded me, there's a miller aspect to my role, too. I do not counterclaim him since I expect this to be a bastard mod game (and that the first Insane Asylum game had more than one miller, too—I don't remember the exact number, but I think three), but since strategy is to bring this up as soon as possible, I'll throw it out there.

[StrangerCoug]

That's a pretty strong statement to make on page three, Glork...

[StrangerCoug]

Glork's bugging me. Right now I feel he's taking his spat with SocioPath the wrong way, and SocioPath comes off town to me, if frustrated.

Vote: Glork

Also, now that Tarhalindur reminded me, there's a miller aspect to my role, too. I do not counterclaim him since I expect this to be a bastard mod game (and that the first Insane Asylum game had more than one miller, too—I don't remember the exact number, but I think three), but since strategy is to bring this up as soon as possible, I'll throw it out there.

I thought it was 2 and one fake claimed later. I was going to look later when I had a chance.

That may be.

[StrangerCoug]

Glork's thing with his millerness and a general quick feeling tell me to be suspicious of him.

What, if anything then, is wrong with Tarhalindur and me? We've both claimed miller or a milleresque role.

[StrangerCoug]

@Glork: Voting for yourself is helping how?

I will answer this question as soon as you answer a question of mine:
Why is your vote still on known town?

This is blatant hypocrisy, for one thing. Chances are you know your alignment and win condition; you have no good reason for your vote either.

For another thing, you're

STILL

treating Iecerint as confirmed, i.e. nobody votes him; end of discussion. It's fine to think Iecerint is obvtown, and I admit the two concepts are related, but they're not identical.

[StrangerCoug]

@Glork: Voting for yourself is helping how?

I will answer this question as soon as you answer a question of mine:
Why is your vote still on known town?

This is blatant hypocrisy, for one thing. Chances are you know your alignment and win condition; you have no good reason for your vote either.

For another thing, you're

STILL

treating Iecerint as confirmed, i.e. nobody votes him; end of discussion. It's fine to think Iecerint is obvtown, and I admit the two concepts are related, but they're not identical.

Way to go completely out of your way to justify a boring vote by answering a question directly asked towards somebody else about their vote specifically.

I'm sure you'll call this OMGUS, but

Uvnote, Vote: StrangerCoug

. I don't see this type of zealotry as being likely protown.

The good news for you is that it's not really OMGUS. The bad news for you is that your vote on me is partially based on something not really a good tell either (that I'm being zealous about it). I can accuse you of being a zealot too, but it hasn't come to your head that it's illogical for town to consider Iecerint cleared. Definite knowledge of Iecerint-town requires the person that has it to be scum right now.

[StrangerCoug]

Shoot me for my sense of humor not being all that good.

[StrangerCoug]

Also, your last statement is factually false. Theoretically, Iece and I could be mod-confirmed masons. Or I could be a Daycop. Or I could have role-based knowledge about him from some other means. Even if I weren't using hyperbole, the entire basis of your vote is inherently wrong.

That slipped my mind ><

Unvote: Glork

[StrangerCoug]

Could you go into a little more detail as to what you're talking about, SocioPath? I dropped my Glork case after he successfully (I feel) defended it, so your post comes off wrong to me.

[StrangerCoug]

SCSK, please revote when you unvote thanks. <3

I had no other strong scum read at the time,

BUT...

[Yes because in this game, given the title and theme and mod, that things like THAT would be SUPER LEGITMATE AND LISTENABLE TO.

This is weak, even for you. I fully well know the nature of the game, but that does not discount the possibility of mod-confirmedness, which is exactly the point I was making. Furthermore, I've already stated that I was using hyperbole. It seems awfully silly to try to pile on the nonexistent GlorkWagon because of a statement (there are roles which can confirm innocence D1) which I made very clear was purely hypothetical.

And yet SC took that and ate it up, to the point of using it as a reason to unvote you.
And even went so far as to point out how LEGITIMATE DEFENSE it was.
Anything you've done, is far outweighed by SC's dropping off you because of your silly statements.
BUDDIES? PERHAPS.

This is completely crap. Glork's statements are not silly; if they were, I would have left my vote alone. Anyone who does not see that Glork proved my statement about confirmed town wrong is blind, so I don't feel justified calling this attack of yours legitimate by any means.

Vote: SocioPath

[StrangerCoug]

Am I the only one that sees the SC+Glork love here?
It is just so amazing.
Essentially its a massive "rolefish" debate back and forth...
...but thats fine with them...
...because no fishing is needed, cause they already know the other's role...
...and overplay their hand.
This silly distancing is silly.
I'm happy with a SC/Glork double lynch.

Vote: StrangeGlorkerCoug

First off, how the hell am I fishing? I thought he had to be scum due to definite knowledge of town at this point. He has proven it completely false, and I pursued no further. Nothing supports that he is a power role that he says contradicts my claim that he has to be scum, especially since he admitted exaggerating it. Scumhunting the wrong way ≠ rolefishing.

Second, this distancing accusation of yours is out of date for reasons that should obviate themselves through my posts.

INTENTIONALLY OBTUSE?
SCUM!

If this even

DESERVES

to be called a tell, I would call it somewhat of a towntell. Reaction-fishing is good.

[StrangerCoug]

The good news for you is that it's not really OMGUS. The bad news for you is that your vote on me is partially based on something not really a good tell either (that I'm being zealous about it). I can accuse you of being a zealot too, but it hasn't come to your head that it's illogical for town to consider Iecerint cleared. Definite knowledge of Iecerint-town requires the person that has it to be scum right now.

Reads as: "You've got nothing on me, so if you know what's good for you, you'll back off." Coug is a scummyperson.

I have realized this as a bad line of attack and am no longer pursuing it.

SC (IIRC) calling Glork pro-town "if anything" for being wacky (it brings conversation!) was even more bizarre, though.

I am more solid on Glork-town than your post implies. The "if anything" I posted is a counter to SocioPath thinking Glork is scummy for being "wacky", and we are in agreement that what Glork is doing is bringing discussion. I'm not sure I fully understand why I got your vote.

First off, how the hell am I fishing? I thought he had to be scum due to definite knowledge of town at this point. He has proven it completely false, and I pursued no further.

Firstly, this is false.
Your original reason for voting Glork was this:

Glork's bugging me. Right now I feel he's taking his spat with SocioPath the wrong way, and SocioPath comes off town to me, if frustrated.

Vote: Glork

Then you later got into a debate about something completely different.

Translation: "Your vote is only valid for the reasons you say it's for. If you develop them or shift lines of attack, your vote is no longer warranted." That's not a fair way of playing Mafia. Glork's "taking his spat with [you] the wrong way" is vaguely worded as quoted and admittedly a gut feeling. Yes, I make no explicit mention of Iecerint until later. (Iecerint is the guy you and Glork were arguing over, is that correct?) Does that mean that my vote no longer has a basis? Hell no, it doesn't.

Secondly,

First off, how the hell am I fishing?

You are missing the point entirely.
Your "discussion" with Glork was merely a charade, hence the quotes around "rolefish".

So Glork and I decided to cover up one scummy action by looking like we're doing another? Does this make any strategic sense whatsoever?

Second, this distancing accusation of yours is out of date for reasons that should obviate themselves through my posts.

Uh huh.

Have you, in all honesty, missed the memo that I'm the serious type? I hate being blown off like this.

INTENTIONALLY OBTUSE?
SCUM!

If this even

DESERVES

to be called a tell, I would call it somewhat of a towntell. Reaction-fishing is good.

Missing the point entirely.

X

Denying that something is a scumtell and explaining why it's not is not "missing the point entirely."

Glork vs SocioPath put me strongly on Glork's side. Socio seems to be trying to get a rise out of Glork so he can jump on it, rather than finding him legitimately scummy.

This is wrong.
In fact, if you pay attention, you'll notice the exact opposite happening.
Timeline dictates that I'm responding to him, not him to me.

I see where you're coming from him, but this does not validate your Glork counterattack. It

IS

seriously lacking.

Glork is being intentionally dismissive and condescending in my direction, in order to claim a higher ground to not respond legitimately.
Of course Glork eats it up:

Anyway, I think you hit the nail on the head Re: Socio. He may be trying to troll me into doing something stupid, and if that's the case he's mostly failing miserably.

Doing something stupid?
Like outing yourself as scum?
Or Coug as your partner?

Trust me. I've seen idiotic scum. Glork may be playing the fool, but he is not idiotic scum.

[StrangerCoug]

Have you, in all honesty, missed the memo that am the intentionally obtuse type?

Must have, if I haven't realized we're polar opposites yet...

I'm going to see how SocioPath vs. Glork continues on its own for awhile.

[StrangerCoug]

SocioPath is not living to see tomorrow if I have a say.

[StrangerCoug]

SocioPath is not living to see tomorrow if I have a say.

Quiet, scum.
Don't think you are not still #1.

Other than the baseless Glork attack that you seem to have picked up from me, I haven't done too many scummy things. You, on the other hand, are giving Glork a holier-than-thou attitude that is helping nobody.

You also just committed the same crime against me that I regret committing against Glork: calling being super-confident about scum scummy.

[StrangerCoug]

You also just committed the same crime against me that I regret committing against Glork: calling being super-confident about scum scummy.

I've done no such thing.

Yes you have. You quoted me saying that I won't let you live until tomorrow if I can help it and you responded by calling me scum. (You also told me to be quiet, which is not a point in your favor.)

[StrangerCoug]

I'm doing a reread and stopped around page 7

SC: How do you get frustrated town reading SP? (refering to post 70)

I no longer have that read, but post #62 was the biggest frustrated tell to me, and nothing SocioPath did yet gave me a scum read.

Could you go into a little more detail as to what you're talking about, SocioPath? I dropped my Glork case after he successfully (I feel) defended it, so your post comes off wrong to me.

How is it cleared up?
I get the impression later he was doing what he did for reaction purposes not for anything he actually knew by the way.[/quote]
I don't think it ever really was cleared up, looking back—he ignored the post of mine you quoted. Your impression could very well be correct.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please fix the quote tag.

[StrangerCoug]

My God, have I really gone that long without a post? I'm well out of prodding range, but still, I try to be more active than this...

1) Coug and a lurker. We'll go with Slicey for now.

Actually, I changed my mind about 1. Let's go with Slicey and Kairyuu for now. I'm kinda flip-floppy on Coug.

I'd like to hear what you have on me that leads you to say either.

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: Deadline extension

Actually Coug, I'd rather not say at this time. There are multiple interactions I want to see play out.

If it's beneficial to you, let them. You just happened to draw my attention.

As I'm rereading a few people I just remembered something.
SC: You were in the last insane game where there were miller claims going on at the start. Why would you wait a few post before claiming miller in this game?

I simply am not in the habit of claiming roles right off the bat, simply because it's not beneficial for most of them. It only came to immediate mind when the other miller claims were coming in.

double post

Unvote, Vote: SocioPath

100% support.

Unvote, Vote: Sociopath

I can see the logic behind this wagon more so than the last one.

these posts come immediately after each other.
They also have alot in common.
For one thing, the person they unvote is, in both cases strangercoug.
For another, they both vote the same person, sociopath,
for a third, the person they are agreeing with in their posts is their previous suspect, strangercoug. Strangercoug voted sociopath in the post immediately prior to glork's post.

This means that they both did a 180 on strangercoug, from suspecting him, to agreeing with him and voting along with him.

Could both glork and bv310 explain this?

I did a 180 on Glork myself (also from suspecting to voting alongside him), so why aren't you questioning me?

strangercoug bothers me somewhat though, the vast majority of his interactions limit his links to glork and sociopath, but he doesn't seem to have commented on either tar or farside, both active people in the game. (see the chart)

Strangercoug, could you make your positions on the players in this game clear?

I'm leaning town on the two people you mention here. As for scum other than SocioPath, I'd probably draw a couple lurker's names out of a hat (I know, I don't like LALurkers, but I perceive an activity disparity between the players that's making the game drag). I have a neutral or no read on everybody else we don't mention right now.

[StrangerCoug]

I did a 180 on Glork myself (also from suspecting to voting alongside him), so why aren't you questioning me?

eh? did I miss that, or are you referring to the same event? Cause there is a different between him voting after you voted, and you voting before he did.

My 180 is a major part of the Glork/StrangerCoug/SocioPath argument.

I would like you to respond to my comments about why your unvote was not rational, though

I think you're referring to #269, so I'll respond based on this thinking; if you're not, then you need to be more specific.

As Glork said, my vote on him is inherently flawed as he could be any number of information roles instead of scum. The two towniest things to do upon realizing this were to come up with a better case on Glork or unvote him; I did the latter.

[StrangerCoug]

could you link to where you're referring to?

I vote Glork
I unvote him
I side with him

Glork was WRONG.
Your vote was only inherently flawed because of the word "requires" If you replaced it with "makes it very likely that", Glork's objection would hold almost no weight.

See, we don't care about what's POSSIBLE. We care about what's LIKELY.
It is POSSIBLE, that, this being "insane" themed, every single player other than me is actually already scum, all of the alignments, night actions, and flips are staged, and this is just UK seeing how much she can torture a player.
Its POSSIBLE.
Why don't I bother considering it? Because I find the POSSIBILITY to be HIGHLY UNLIKELY.

So we can talk all day about POSSIBILITIES if you like. However, Glork's objection that "alignment information doesn't necessitate scum" doesn't matter because "alignment information makes scum extremely likely" seems to be a much more realistic position anyway.

You would be hard-pressed to find ANYTHING that NECESSITATES scum, ESPECIALLY in a game where the theme is INSANITY. You can imagine a possibility, easily in fact, where you cannot trust flips or cop investigations. Nothing NECESSITATES scum, at least until game end, but even then it could have been a giant conspiracy, with the result alreadly determined, and everyone in on it but you, but certainly you can figure out what makes people LIKELY scum. And that's what we do. Its the reason scumtells don't make us lynch people immediately. They just make things likely.

Which is why both you and glork are behaving rather weird in regards to this whole matter.
Both Glork and you should be aware of this, I presume you've used scumtells before, and your treatment of it is highly disconcerting. I would very much appreciate it if you put my worries to rest by explaining your actions.

While you make a point with my wording, it's still the driving force of my unvote. It does not, however, render the rest of Glork's defense against me irrelevant. He said that he was using hyperbole on which I failed to pick up, and I was raising no other objection against Glork strongly leaning town on Iecerint. (In fact, I say it's fine for him to do so.) Combined, those left my vote with virtually zero basis.

[StrangerCoug]

Unvote: SocioPath

while I do that then.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, a quick reread on SocioPath makes me feel better about him. He doesn't go up to my top town read, but I suppose I'll let him live. He's in the townier half of the players.

I notice a wagon on Snow_Bunny and that's a player I'm not seeing much, so next item on the checklist is to look at that player.

[StrangerCoug]

Eleven posts by Snow_Bunny. That was easy

While the fact that she's voting the mod for a long time is alarming, the do-in seems to be the most recent post, which is essentially OMGUS on Tarhalindur, counterattacking his lurking accusation with "Even a newbie can do that." Yeah, a newbie can do that—because it's clear she's posting infrequently.

Vote: Snow_Bunny

[StrangerCoug]

Eleven posts by Snow_Bunny. That was easy

While the fact that she's voting the mod for a long time is alarming, the do-in seems to be the most recent post, which is essentially OMGUS on Tarhalindur, counterattacking his lurking accusation with "Even a newbie can do that." Yeah, a newbie can do that—because it's clear she's posting infrequently.

Vote: Snow_Bunny

BZZT. My case on Snow_Bunny is only incidental to her lack of activity (and only because she hasn't been posting content when she HAS been posting).

In fact, THIS vote reeks of scum motivation - I need to look at your past games now. (Could be a bus or piling on a weak townie - first instinct is the former, but I'll take a closer look.)

MFoS: StrangerCoug

Her OMGUS on you, not your case, is the primary basis of my vote. Surely she can do better than she has?

My vote for SC is a reflection of my prior ambivalence about Glork/SP. I wouldn't really dispute that it was bad/weak reasoning. Nothing has really happened to convince me that I was wrong, though, least of all page 12, where he (for the second time) backs down mainly because you tell him to AFAICT.

I don't keep votes after it's been shown that their basis is weak.

Also, magnus_orion's specific instruction was to reread SocioPath, not drop the SocioPath case (I still have some nags about him, but they're minor). The unvote was an attempt not to have my bias toward the latter have any bearing on my read. Your case on magnus_orion would have to be that he

ENCOURAGED

me to back off, not

TOLD

me.

[StrangerCoug]

I hate to say that it's common for me to focus on the major part of the game while I throw everything else aside, magnus_orion...

[StrangerCoug]

SC:
post 70
votes for glork for bugging him and does his miller claim after 2 other people. I don't like that mention of 3 millers in the last game comment as almost a confirmation of it being possible without showing a link.

For the record there was three miller claims in the game insane 1
1 was a death miller and the other 2 were regular millers.

I was too lazy to get the link (yes, I realize it was as simple as pulling the game from my Wiki, itself something I haven't bothered with in a long time). Also, I think the expectation of bastard modding is itself confirmation of the possibility of three millers.

I don't understand the unvote here. You were not orginally voting him based on his iec is town comment.
please point to where glork defended himself against your orginal gut feeling.
Why didn't you say in your orginal case that you thought he was scum because "due to definite knowledge of town"?

Very simple: because I couldn't pinpoint exactly what I found scummy about Glork, only that it had to do with the argument he was having with SocioPath.

I simply am not in the habit of claiming roles right off the bat, simply because it's not beneficial for most of them. It only came to immediate mind when the other miller claims were coming in.

Actually reading the first few pages of insane you said pretty much the same thing on claiming there. Did you reread the game?

No xD That must be a coincidence.

I'm leaning town on the two people you mention here. As for scum other than SocioPath, I'd probably draw a couple lurker's names out of a hat (I know, I don't like LALurkers, but I perceive an activity disparity between the players that's making the game drag). I have a neutral or no read on everybody else we don't mention right now.

this is lazy. Why only lurkers looking scummy?

You know me, farside22. LALurkers is one of my "last resort" things, and this was a "last resort" thing.

I want your input on Kai at this point and your views.

Kairyuu is usually one of those very good players (capable of breaking the game if you let him!), but I don't see enough of him right now. Other than leaning town on magnus_orion and somewhat less so on DGB, you quoted what I think is everyone's alignment as far as I can determine.

post 281 again lazy and now just following the biggest bw.

Pretty much conceded. Even if I should have done a reread of everybody, I honestly don't see much other than the three-way fight between SocioPath, Glork, and me, so I looked at Snow_Bunny in ISO to see if I found anything good.

[StrangerCoug]

Uhhh, SC, there is a reason why you arent seeing much of Kairyuu...

Did I forget that he's still V/LA? It seems like everybody and their mother has some sort of test.

[StrangerCoug]

If I'm made aware of one that #327 doesn't answer.

[StrangerCoug]

Eleven posts by Snow_Bunny. That was easy

While the fact that she's voting the mod for a long time is alarming, the do-in seems to be the most recent post, which is essentially OMGUS on Tarhalindur, counterattacking his lurking accusation with "Even a newbie can do that." Yeah, a newbie can do that—because it's clear she's posting infrequently.

Vote: Snow_Bunny

BZZT. My case on Snow_Bunny is only incidental to her lack of activity (and only because she hasn't been posting content when she HAS been posting).

In fact, THIS vote reeks of scum motivation - I need to look at your past games now. (Could be a bus or piling on a weak townie - first instinct is the former, but I'll take a closer look.)

MFoS: StrangerCoug

Her OMGUS on you, not your case, is the primary basis of my vote. Surely she can do better than she has?

- snip -.

1) BZZT. Repeat after me: OMGUS, on its own, is a NULL tell. It's the reasoning behind the OMGUS that can be scummy.

This is just semantics, but it looks a little like our definitions of OMGUS conflict. I say if you can give a legitimate reason for the vote back, it's not OMGUS at all.

2) Underperformance is not a scumtell - it just says that somebody's having a bad game.

Thank you for adding to my defense against farside22 (or is something else the case?).

There ARE good reasons for thinking S_B/Ellibereth is scum... but the ones you're pushing don't count.

Also, remember that there's a group of about five players (including you) where I expect one (maybe two, but doubt it) scum. You know who else is in the group. Better start convincing me which one is more likely to be scum than you are.

Pop quiz on myself: SocioPath, Snow_Bunny, Haylen, Leech, and I make up the five, is that correct?

If so, my suspicions of Snow_Bunny still stand (this time, I'm working on building it up instead of dropping it off), and somebody needs to convince me that Leech isn't lurking for that person to get off my mental LoS. SocioPath is still on the townie side of neutral and I don't see a case on Haylen.

[StrangerCoug]

Messed up the quote tags, but meh. I probably need to know how my case on SB specifically differs from Tarhalindur's.

[StrangerCoug]

L-2, so as per Tarhalindur, time for me to reveal that I am a nightkill-immune modified miller vigilante. Modified as in I investigate the opposite I normally do to any given sanity cop.

[StrangerCoug]

L-2, so as per Tarhalindur, time for me to reveal that I am a nightkill-immune modified miller vigilante. Modified as in I investigate the opposite I normally do to any given sanity cop.

I heavily suspect you are lying right now.
If you are telling the truth, you should have a good idea why.

I understand the risks of what I'm doing.

3) Sounds like a perfect Godfather or SK role to me...

If UncertainKitten borrowed her modding style heavily from you, then Godfather would make sense to me from your viewpoint. I think anybody who's gone through Mafia Theory 101 knows that faking vig as SK is basically throwing the game.

Unvote
Vote: Ellibereth

Please claim, Elli. You are now at L-2.

FoS: Glork

Start convincing me that you're not trying to get as many people as possible to claim if you don't want me to vig you.

Elli's vote for SC for no reason is noted.

I had one. I thought everyone else on me was town.

The withholding of your vote reason on me is heavily noted. Vote stands.

[StrangerCoug]

My bad.

[StrangerCoug]

risks?
what?

I have presented myself as a threat to scum, so I am likely to get roleblocked or killed tonight.

[StrangerCoug]

risks?
what?

I have presented myself as a threat to scum, so I am likely to get roleblocked or killed tonight.

umm didn't you say you were immune to NK's?

Oh, that's right. I was thinking just vig when I wrote that.

[StrangerCoug]

No, I was thinking in terms of being a regular vig when I presented how I was a danger. Only the immunity slipped my mind.

[StrangerCoug]

Again, I only forgot

PART

of my role. I've breadcrumbed that I am a vig. Twice.

[StrangerCoug]

Hey, let him give it a runthrough. If I'm mislynched, maybe he can find who found my wagon easy.

[StrangerCoug]

By the way, Coug, slinging around threats to Vig people is probably not a good idea. The more you do it, the more likely it is that someone is going to claim to try to save themselves from your prospective (and possibly sane) Vig attempt. So while you're giving me a telling off for pushing for a second claim, I don't think you're considering the implications of your own threats and requests.

My best play is to kill a suspect, and I will voice who I suspect. Your actions post-vig threat look town, though, and I'm kind of curious as to what you want with the roleclaims, so I'll back off.

In addition, either you know me better than you realize or you don't believe in empty threats either.

[StrangerCoug]

Coug: Does your NK-Immunity state that all kills attempted on you fail, or does it bring kill sanity into the issue?

Kill sanity is referenced in the role PM. (So is doc sanity, but the only thing I think I should worry about in that clause is a naïve doctor.)

[StrangerCoug]

Hence why I implied that I shouldn't have to worry about an insane doctor.

[StrangerCoug]

Tarhalindur, how likely do you consider at least one of the staff members being scum?

[StrangerCoug]

Tarhalindur, how likely do you consider at least one of the staff members being scum?

I do, too. I mean. We're a lot in the group. We can't all be townies.

So you're claiming masons with Tar?

CAN THIS LIST BECOME PUBLIC OR SOMETHING.
IT MAKES MY BRAIN HURT.

I'd jump back on you for this, but I'm trying to see if it's a good or a bad idea in the long run. With a claimed mason group this large, I personally think the masons should claim on their own when the appropriate time comes.

[StrangerCoug]

You worry me again, Socio...

[StrangerCoug]

I have a big explanation to make.

Last night, the mod PM'd me asking me to reread the role since she believed I misunderstood it. (She actually did it twice, the other time during Day 1 shortly after my claim, but I failed to see the big deal about it.)

Apparently, I am balanced by a points system. Each kill I make costs me a point. I am not a true limited-shot role as there is a way I can earn points (actually a necessity since I start at zero)—I somehow have to draw kills to me.

I tried to kill SocioPath last night without ever having earned points. And since I claimed nightkill immunity, without the right roles in the game I won't be able to get any. Basically, I hate myself.

[StrangerCoug]

They're buried in there. I know how the two of you feel.

[StrangerCoug]

How could anyone possibly be that careless, especially given two alleged Mod warnings?

Post time stamps on the alleged PMs if UK will let you.

"Warning" connotes a rule violation to me, but I'll ask if I can post timestamps.

I'm so confused.
SC: Are you saying your immune to NK and can only kill if someone tries to kill you to get points in order to kill?

Exactly. Unless there's a sane doctor, a dayvig, or a redirector, I'm screwed.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: Or a bus driver, but that's a redirector-type role.

[StrangerCoug]

...I fail.

Mod: This isn't some sort of payback for SWN II, is it?

Hey, didn't I win that one? And don't ask me what role you have in public, I have no idea, I just know someone stole my teddy bear >=[!

[StrangerCoug]

Which time around?

[StrangerCoug]

Which time around?

During your day 1 claim. you stated the mod sent you a PM. Did you see it then and reread your role? Or ask the mod a question or anything for clarification? If not why?

I saw it and reread. She thought I didn't understand how I was a modified miller vig. While I did pick up on information I overlooked then, I didn't see any cause for concern, which is why I said nothing about doc and kill sanities until Glork asked about the latter.

[StrangerCoug]

No go on the timestamps.

[StrangerCoug]

I gave estimates already. See post #605.

[StrangerCoug]

If I receive notification that I'm allowed to get more specific than I have, I'll do so.

I suppose that, if I hypothetically were to PM you anything, you could claim the hour. Fair enough?

[StrangerCoug]

I got the PM's about 8 PM MDT on the 18th and noon MDT this past Monday.

[StrangerCoug]

Dramonic is voting for extraordinarily lame reasons. My first instinct when I see something like this is that it's bus'ing.

Wouldn't it require me to actually vote someone who has decent suspicion to qualify as bussing <<

I don't think that's necessarily true. One of the scumtells that's pretty reliable on me is to bus for almost nothing.

I still want to get rid of SocioPath, especially after the Night 1 discussion, so

vote SocioPath

. I think the reactions I've generated so far today after I felt like a blind man without a cane will be useful, too.

[StrangerCoug]

I think a quick skim of magnus_orion vs. Iecerint puts the former on the winning end. That Iece constantly confused SocioPath and I with each other doesn't have an effect on my read, but what does seem off to me is that he's taken awhile to come up with a straight answer to MO.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Minor technical difficulties with my Internet connection.

Seems to be happening a lot

[StrangerCoug]

I'd still like a SocioPath lynch, but I see myself being easily persuaded to switch off to Haylen or Iecerint, my two scumreads other than that. I'm willing to put stock in people being afraid of my kill that's now likely not going to happen being scum, hence why I'm willing to vote Haylen, and my last post with content said Iecerint comes off scummy after his argument with magnus_orion, which explains my willingness to vote Iec.

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug: Why "I see myself being easily persuaded to switch"? Why not something more active such as "I could get behind a lynch on these two players"? The former implies passivity (a scum/neutral mindset, since scum don't really care who gets lynched as long as it's not them) and an attempt to shirk responsibility for your actions (pretty big scumtell).

The only reason I'm not switching is that I see my SocioPath case as having the most stock. If my Iecerint or Haylen cases were stronger, I'd ditch the SocioPath vote and move to one of them without saying "I could be persuaded with this" or "I could get behind this".

In addition, I consider my wording as implying less willing to switch than "I could get behind a lynch on these two players," but not unwilling.

SC is scum. I can't believe he's gotten away with that fakeclaim business, and the fake excuses the day after.

Go through my games as scum. I'm smarter than this as that alignment, and if I were scum, I would have found it easier to explain the lack of a vig kill as my getting roleblocked.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm smarter than this as that alignment, and if I were scum, I would have found it easier to explain the lack of a vig kill as my getting roleblocked.

Maybe you thought it was clever.

I could have thought anything since what I'm doing is technically WIFOM, but still, do you honestly think it would help me as scum in the long run to act like an idiot?

dramonic's sudden switch worries me, but I still have no objections to a Haylen lynch. I'm fine hammering.

[StrangerCoug]

Would you like to know the truth? The past few games, my brain has been mushy. I can barely remember the rules of mafia let alone how to scumhunt. I dunno maybe I'm so stressed out that things are affecting me play.

Welcome to hell. I've been feeling miserable about how I've been doing here myself for obvious reasons. Does that mean whining and crying will make me look any townier? Despite how your scumbuddy DrippingGoofball is behaving, hell no. It's not fair to give you that leniency either.

TL;DR: Nice appeal to emotion. It didn't work.

Claim: Medical Administrator

Hanging on to the hammer until this is explained (plus the extension might be useful information-wise).

Unvote: SocioPath

in the meantime.

[StrangerCoug]

I notice that you responded to every bit of my post other than the accusation. Avoidance noted.

Vote Strangercoug

The accusation was ridiculous in the first place. I don't care how suicidal my mistake makes me, I'm not sitting there and succumbing to my own lynch. Of course I'd rather have somebody other than myself lynched. You want somebody other than yourself lynched, DrippingGoofball wants somebody other than herself lynched, magnus_orion wants somebody other than himself lynched, Tarhalindur wants somebody other than himself lynched, and so on and so forth. You are calling a natural want in a Mafia game a scumtell, which is not how scumhunting works.

FFS, I am NOT DGB's scumbuddy. I wasn't in Mixology either. Neither of us were scum there and you're just making me continue to believe she is town.

Did I miss something? I don't see what relevance Mixology has to this game.

Also, I dont appeal to peoples emotions. A2E is a thought process of the other person. If they take it as appealling to their emotions then that's what the think. However, the intention behind what is said is often entirely different. There's a lot of psychology that I could go into here but i cant really be bothered.

If you don't want me to take your complaining about the game as an excuse to be useful, then step up and actually post decent cases. You can do better than you and DrippingGoofball have on me.

[StrangerCoug]

God damn it, I wish I were a doublevoter, then I could get another person to vote DGB and then hammer both the scumbags...

[StrangerCoug]

The lockdown ability also prevents night kills. SC, why are you so sure that me and DGB are scum?

Neither of you have decent cases on me (or anyone else I can think of, for that matter), DrippingGoofball is buddying to you, you think whining and complaining will get you out of whatever you want, and I have this conspiracy theory that, since scum can't kill me at night yet I'm still a liability, they'll try to kill me during the day.

Did I miss something? I don't see what relevance Mixology has to this game.

If you don't understand my logic, then I don't feel like explaining it to you.[/quote]
I thought my post implied that I failed to catch any mention of Mixology before the quoted post. It's impossible to be confused about and oblivious to the same thing.

vote: DGB

That vote on SC makes no sense. She keeps avoiding the topic of the neighbors as possible scum. I see this shift of a vote as trying to keep neighbors safe while thinking one being scum = no sense. This makes no sense if you believe one to be scum.

NO U

You make no sense, as usual. I HAVE NOT been avoiding the neighbors as possible scum, duh. I brought it up in the neighbor QT

BEFORE ANYONE ELSE

and Tar WILL confirm this.

AND - in light of the above, my vote on SC makes TOTAL SENSE.

Especially since after he flips scum, we have the whole rest of the neighbors pretty much confirmed - that's three players. Then, one of these neighbors is going to get killed as a confirmed townie. Which means we can go into end game with TWO confirmed townies.

If you're town, you'll agree.

But hey. You may be scum. I can see why you would choose to ignore SC's ridiculous jesterrificness.

Haylen is town.

This means that SC is 100% confirmed scum.

Do the math.

eh, what are the chances that just DGB and dramonic are scum?
I willing to lynch DGB at this point...

Opportunistic scum much?

Hey, look! OMGUSing anybody that suspects her!

You normally look very pro-town to me, DrippingGoofball. Not this time.

[StrangerCoug]

*resists the temptation to do something sickening watching a desperate DrippingGoofball*

[StrangerCoug]

Even with the mod clarification, the kill flavor and the fact that #808 and #809 contradict each other isn't leading me to believe the claim. Sorry, but you had this coming.

Vote: DrippingGoofball

[StrangerCoug]

I'm sorry if for a period of 5 minutes, I mixed up "insane" with "sanity unknown."

You've been on this site for how long?

Please. Someone needs to use their brain in this game.

This from somebody not using hers either.

And I'm plenty sore about Tar NOT defending me. He knows - from the QT, that I'm totally honest.

Tarhalindur does not have to defend you if he does not see a good reason too, and it's clear he doesn't.

If Tarhalindur and StrangeCougar are NOT lynched, there will be words.

Yeah. Words of how we beat you, Haylen, and one other person I'm not sure of right now (my guess is one of farside22 and dramonic).

Somebody hammer the OMGUS'ing hypocrite that refuses to post decent cases on people.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: How many times do I have to reread my role?

Although she didn't PM me again, I just had to put that. It appears, contrary to what I thought, I

CAN

talk in thread at night. So the red herring theory is thrown out.

Until you understand it >=[!

[StrangerCoug]

World Cup fever, anyone?

[StrangerCoug]

How 'bout we lynch SC. He's lurking hard now.

The alternative over which I have any control is to annoy everybody with my wanting you lynched, since that should be pretty common knowledge in this threasd.

Post #3 - Votes for my beloved Glork. NO REASON. "He's bugging me" - how on Earth can you cast aspersions on the Almighty Glork unless you are scum and are trying to erode his credibility??? At least get off your lazy arse and make a case! "He's bugging me" is NOT enough but it will suffice if you are lazy scum.

So I'm not allowed to vote him on gut? It was better than random.

Post #4 - What?!? More villainous attacks on Glork's credibility. "That's a pretty strong statement to make on page three, Glork... " And the scum's plan to slowly gnaw away at Glork's awesome townie goodness is taking shape.

Now you're chainsaw defending Glork. I've read Tarhalindur's Standard Tells, but gee whiz, can you talk about how my case on Glork is scummy rather than whine and complain about something you don't like?

Post #7 - Relentlessly pursue Glork, possibly hoping a wagon materializes. "This is blatant hypocrisy, for one thing. Chances are you know your alignment and win condition; you have no good reason for your vote either." SC's post means ZILCH, except that it sends another sharp arrow Glork's way.

*plugs ears*

Post #8 - More of the same, this time he's getting caught up actually arguing with Glork instead of making repeated, baseless accusations.

And your problem with this is?

Post #10 - Glork is SO OBV RIGHT that SC's continued, persistent and pestilential attacks on Glork would ruin his town-cread forever. He relents. Why not? His team can always de-cojones his credibility during the day, and smite him at night.

Apparently, continuing to attacking Glork is not OK and neither is stopping my attack on him. You're damning me if I do and damning me if I don't here.

Post #12 - Target switch! Now SC is trying to discredit my beloved SocioPath. HOW??? BY DEFENDING GLORK!?!?!?! WTF

Another baseless chainsaw defense.

The next few posts are all backtracking and moving sideways. He says, among other things, "I have realized this as a bad line of attack and am no longer pursuing it. " Well. It's a LINE OF ATTACK. That's right. Thanks for calling a spade a spade, SC.

Defending is illegal too? What planet are you from!?

Post #15 - Precious! "I'm going to see how SocioPath vs. Glork continues on its own for awhile. " Oh yeah, watch the two townies fight it out. Fun for the whole family.

The statement implies that I wanted more information out of them before I did anything else about them.

Post #17 - "Other than the baseless Glork attack that you seem to have picked up from me, I haven't done too many scummy things. " The how-can-you-catch-me-with-crap-scumtells, scumtell.

I did not make an outright denial of my being scummy other than that. It merely says that I considered myself less scummy than some of the other noteworthy players.

Post #21 - Active lurking filler.

Hey, at least it's an attempt to be productive.

Post #22 - Very lame excuse for being late to the miller claiming party.

We are creatures of habit. The miller role is infrequent enough for me not to have deviated from my usual play.

Post #23, 24 - backtracking, defensive.

The backtracking is conceded since I'd known for awhile how bad of an idea I had, but defensiveness is not a good tell.

Post #27 - SC is totally not scum hunting at all. He's just pursuing a scum agenda. However, when SB's lurking and uselessness is pointed out, he
easily re-focuses and votes SB.

I had no other scum reads at the time. I was pretty much starting from scratch.

Post #28 - After Tar calls him out, correctly, on post #27, he responds with another lame, marshmallow excuse. "Surely she can do better than she has?" WOW!!! And ends with a question mark, too! How 'bout being non-committal, except for the voting part.

A point is made with the ending punctuation, but I fail to see how I'm as non-committal as you portray me. It's allowing for a defense from SB.

Post 29 - SC has an answer to everything.

Thanks for congratulating me on my being a good player.

After magnus_orion calls him out for his easy switcharony, he says: 'I hate to say that it's common for me to focus on the major part of the game while I throw everything else aside, magnus_orion... " Yeah. Throw everything aside, but if there comes a good wagon, hop!

Wagons are the way to go.

Post #30 - And he's lazy too, here's his answer to farside's probing: "I was too lazy to get the link" Erm yeah. Lazy scummy. And then, "You know me, farside22. LALurkers is one of my "last resort" things, and this was a "last resort" thing." ORLY??? That's the first time SC mentions LALurkers being last resort, after farside pesters him.

Go find a game where I pursue LALurkers like mad despite there being a good lynch other than that. It's the first time I've said it in

THIS

game, but I've made that statement before elsewhere. So it didn't come out of the blue.

Post #31 - filler.

So you like us in the dark, eh? I wonder how you survive your own unforgiving Mafia ideal.

Post #33 - One of my favorites so far: "If so, my suspicions of Snow_Bunny still stand (this time, I'm working on building it up instead of dropping it off)," WELL GUESS WHAT - the "building it up" never came!

You are failing to take future things that could have and did come up into account.

Post #35 - "time for me to reveal that I am a nightkill-immune modified miller vigilante. Modified as in I investigate the opposite I normally do to any given sanity cop." Well this fakeclaim would cover all bases. Except... he didn't prove it last night. FAKE CLAIM FAILURE - LAUNCH ROCKET

Who said there was, for sure, going to be a kill from me last night? A good mod would find a good balance for me somehow, and the easiest way (I think) is with a Mafia roleblocker.

Post #36 - "FoS: Glork" There we go, eroding Glork's credibility again. BUT. Not enough to remove vote from promising SB wagon!!!

There we go, chainsaw defending Glork again. BUT. That's not going to save your butt.

Post #38 -

The classic "NK-immune" player faking being worried about being NK'd. Please.

This *might* pass except out fakeclaimer FAILED to prove his role last night.

Again, scum might have had a way to keep my kill from going off.

Post #40 - Skating on very thin ice: "No, I was thinking in terms of being a regular vig when I presented how I was a danger. Only the immunity slipped my mind. "

I have one of the most complex roles I've ever received. I'm sorry I couldn't come to everybody's satisfaction and digest everything in my role PM in one go. I

KNEW

how much trouble I was in.

Post #49 - Astonishingly. "Apparently, I am balanced by a points system. Each kill I make costs me a point. I am not a true limited-shot role as there is a way I can earn points (actually a necessity since I start at zero)—I somehow have to draw kills to me. " Really???? That escaped him??? That, being a miller, and being NK-immune, that escaped him too???

As I believe I've said, fakeclaiming like you claim I have is suicidal. There are better ways of explaining why I didn't kill last night if I were scum.

[StrangerCoug]

Unvote
As long as we get to lynch Hayl tomorrow or something in that vein
vote: StrangerCoug

Fos: dramonic

I'm more than happy to lynch Haylen, but you're just voting me because I'm a more viable wagon than Haylen is. Either back up DrippingGoofball's statements or make a case of your own.

[StrangerCoug]

Sorry, farside

Even with the mod clarification, the kill flavor and the fact that #808 and #809 contradict each other isn't leading me to believe the claim. Sorry, but you had this coming.

Vote: DrippingGoofball

Which kill are you talking about here? Is this the one on Glork? If so did you read what Tar said about targeting him?

The kill on Glork. I did read Tarhalindur's post when I posted, and I read it again just now. While something I should have given more thought, I don't think the post saves her.

[StrangerCoug]

Not scum that calls everybody that disagrees with her scum, I'll tell you that.

[StrangerCoug]

So that wasn't expected.
Can we lynch the cougar now?

After her crap case on me that helped get her lynched? What are you smoking?

Vote: dramonic

Post a decent case on me or risk death if I ever get a point.

[StrangerCoug]

So you think I bussed DrippingGoofball. OK, find some links between the two of us.

Hint: I've been known to bus over almost nothing.
Another hint: I highly doubt my case on DrippingGoofball is "almost nothing".

[StrangerCoug]

For one, the claim was incredibly botched, and not only once.

Yes, the claim came out in dribs and drabs. Yes, I momentarily forgot about my immunity. But there's a technicality that saves me in the post that obviates that I forgot: the word "or". We can rule out one of the things happening to me.

Also, he's escaped lynch too many times for this to be normal =_=

This is basically a reword of "Why isn't StrangerCoug dead yet?", and the only times I remember questioning in thread why players are alive are as scum.

For the other, I've gut

That comes from where, DrippingGoofball's crap case on me? Seriously, this is one of the lamest pushes for my lynch.

*sigh*
Did anyone at all successfully use an ability last night?

I didn't attempt one last night because, lockdown or not, I would have expected it to fail anyway.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC: See, that last line is the kind of things that make me want to lynch you. And gut comes from the gut, not DGB's posts <<

That doesn't convince anyone of anything. You can't say "

OMG! THE COUG DIDN'T SHOOT!! KILL HIM!!!

" You clearly did not pay attention to when I told DrippingGoofball that her trick on me didn't work.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC: Enlighten me to ANY protown motive to not attempt an action just because it "might" fail?

You make this simple. I have received no notification that I have received a point.

There are other pro-town motives as to why I did not attempt a shot last night: I may have misunderstood how the lockdown worked, I may not have come up with a good vig target in time, or I may want more information from my suspects. (Of those, the second is the least plausible in the actual situation as if I had known for sure that I could kill, either you or Haylen wouldn't be breathing right now.)

You and DrippingGoofball both think in black and white.

[StrangerCoug]

How about someone throw some questions MY WAY.
ALTHOUGH I AM SLIGHTLY MORE CLEAR AS TO WHO IS SCUM AND WHY, SO IT WOULD BE REDUNDANT.

The second part makes it kind of hard, but I'll try here:

1. Do you think dramonic is even trying to play?
   
2. How likely do you think that I am a serial killer?
   
3. Suppose I knew I had a point, but decided to hang on to my shot. Of the three alternates described in my last post, which makes the most sense to you and why?

[StrangerCoug]

I have a prod due? Ain't gonna happen. Sorry.

I'm happy with the dramonic lynch. Hang away.

[StrangerCoug]

Well, the only purpose telling a sob story serves is to speed up your death. Perhaps if you posted a better case on somebody, we'll spare you.

[StrangerCoug]

Where's the sob story, cougar boy?

Because it's pretty apparent I'm not trying more than that and because there's already a good enough portion of the players in game that have expressed an interest in my death.
Don't ask why again. Please.

In a nutshell, you've been coming up with excuses for everything all day and realized what you've done; therefore, you seem to claim here that nothing will save you. That's not true. There admittedly isn't much you

CAN

do, but for God's sake, if you want to help town, it's high time you do a better push for someone else's lynch!

[StrangerCoug]

Where's the sob story, cougar boy?

Because it's pretty apparent I'm not trying more than that and because there's already a good enough portion of the players in game that have expressed an interest in my death.
Don't ask why again. Please.

In a nutshell, you've been coming up with excuses for everything all day and realized what you've done; therefore, you seem to claim here that nothing will save you. That's not true. There admittedly isn't much you

CAN

do, but for God's sake, if you want to help town, it's high time you do a better push for someone else's lynch!

Except you are obviously antitown, there lies our problem.

So are you.

[StrangerCoug]

so... SC is claiming he IS an SK now...

That implies that I should have thought more about my role before claiming in pieces, not that I am a serial killer.

[StrangerCoug]

In addition, the defeatism you're showing tends to be a vanilla tell in my experience.

I may be guilty of wishful thinking here, but I've always seen it as antitown since it tells everybody you've stopped caring.

Actually, now that I think about it - with four players claimed or mostly claimed and the possibility of LyLo (if SC is an SK), massclaim may be in order here. Thoughts?

Not against it.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't mind the massclaim, but I still stand by my point.
If we EVER mislynch from here on, SC-SK wins.
I'd rather the town win.

What are you smoking? If I am the serial killer, either everyone else has to die or I have to make up half the game. I would have to be scum for me to win on a mislynch today.

[StrangerCoug]

First you imply that I dreamed up the points system, but now that you're taking it as truth. That's a bit of a sudden switch there.

[StrangerCoug]

I have a question: If it's so hard to win as SK, why would the mod be making it even harder by limiting when the player can nightkill? When you replaced into StrangerCoug's Worst Nightmare II, you got the SK role with a JOAT ability, and the four abilities were intended to make it easier for you to win. (I understand you didn't, but my point still stands.)

[StrangerCoug]

I have thoughts on each of the various players but I believe SC and Dramonic are the two to pressure right now.

You go into detail about me, but make no mention of dramonic except for this sentence. What do you think of him?

I have a question: If it's so hard to win as SK, why would the mod be making it even harder by limiting when the player can nightkill?

You're bulletproof.

Not the point of my question. Try again.

Also it's a UK game, logic has no ground here.

There is still at least

SOME

logic in a bastard mod game. First and foremost, the game still has to be balanced. That line of thinking is how animorpherv1 quickly got cleared in SWN II. You should know this. In addition, if logic had no ground here, lynching townie players would always be sensical play. Even so, the

CORRECT

play is to lynch scummy players. Therefore, you cannot throw out my logic argument. Try again.

SC.... how would scum win today on a mislynch with 7 players left?

I forgot that we had dead scum.

[StrangerCoug]

The fact you are bulletproof makes it so you can't be nightkill. Add to that the fact you gain NKs when people attempt to shoot you down and I'm sorry but you're pretty much stronger than the average SK.

That's only true if I manage to draw multiple kills a night.

When I read one of your posts SC (like, "I forgot we had dead scum"??!!) I wonder why you are still alive since you are one of the most consistently scummiest players I have ever seen.... regardless of your role. This makes applying logic to you strange and difficult because you don't necessarily optimize your play at all or seem to be aware/remember details. It is your style regardless of how much i hate it ;P.

Don't be so quick to say that I'm a slop—I actually play reasonably well as Mafia.

My first night action was to investigate SC on night 1. I got a guilty result. NO ONE else say anything about this until SC responds to why I got a guilty result. I have various thoughts on why Farside picked SC. I'll post it after SC responds.

If your claim is correct, then I would say that if farside22 did not make a serious misplay on investigating somebody with a claimed miller-like ability, she was doing a sanity check:

Also, now that Tarhalindur reminded me, there's a miller aspect to my role, too.

Modified as in I investigate the opposite I normally do to any given sanity cop.

[StrangerCoug]

The fact you are bulletproof makes it so you can't be nightkill. Add to that the fact you gain NKs when people attempt to shoot you down and I'm sorry but you're pretty much stronger than the average SK.

That's only true if I manage to draw multiple kills a night.

I'm not sure I am clear with what you mean here. You are saying that you only gain "charges" if you draw multiple night kill actions towards yourself? From who? Scum, doc, SK? how could you be the target of multiple night kills.

Anybody with a kill ability.

When I read one of your posts SC (like, "I forgot we had dead scum"??!!) I wonder why you are still alive since you are one of the most consistently scummiest players I have ever seen.... regardless of your role. This makes applying logic to you strange and difficult because you don't necessarily optimize your play at all or seem to be aware/remember details. It is your style regardless of how much i hate it ;P.

Don't be so quick to say that I'm a slop—I actually play reasonably well as Mafia.

I've been re-reading and you make this point before as well. That if you 'were' SK/mafia, then you would be playing much much "better". That how you are playing now is 'proof' that you are not an anti-town role? This doesn't make sense to me.

It doesn't make sense to you because that's not why I made the slop comment. Put more clearly, my Mafia record is better than my town record. What you're talking about is my defending my claim. Do you think that I am scum trying to get myself killed? If so, does my counterattacking DrippingGoofball make any sense to you?

Yes, I believe it was a psuedo sanity check depending on what you really are. That is another reason why I would like to lynch you ;P. If you flip something identifiable then my investigation ability might be more trust worthy.

Corvuus
P.S. do you believe my claim? Haylen's claim?

Yours I'm still trying to work out, but leaning yes; Haylen's no.

I still think the focus should be scumhunting, but if I must meet my demise before endgame, sucks to be me.

[StrangerCoug]

I cannot dayvig and I'm checking with the mod whether I can kill tonight.

[StrangerCoug]

SC: Is your 'millerness' a one time thing to investigation or does it permanently affect investigation ability of that person?

can you answer this please, SC?

It's unclear in the role PM, but I think it's one time.

Additionally, I'm still at zero, so I cannot kill tonight.

[StrangerCoug]

In this case, how do you think the kill occurred? A Superkill that went through "role block" or something else?

Your guess is as good as mine as far as I am concerned.

[StrangerCoug]

She's NK immune
If we mislynch, she also "becomes" lynch-immune, because then we are in LyLo.

I am male.

[StrangerCoug]

Quick thoughts right now:

• Tarhalindur is my best town read. I disagree with him on a couple points (for example, I'd switch out Corvuus, not Haylen, if dramonic flips scum), but I'm shooting myself if he doesn't know what he's doing. His last post on page 41 suggests that there should be a 2b on the list, though. What is it?
  
• I still think magnus_orion is town. I don't know what's bugging Tarhalindur about him.
  
• SocioPath's claim takes a bit of wrapping around my head to make sense given my role, but I think it's truthful.
  
• I think Corvuus can easily go either way. I think his claim is satisfactory, but he's conflated what I've said so it looks like I'm using the fact that I suck as town as an excuse to look obvscum.
  
• dramonic is lazy scum.
  
• Haylen needs to get the heck in here and post a decent case on me.

[StrangerCoug]

SC: what takes a bit of wrapping around your head to make sense given your role (literal or interpretatively).

We have both claimed sanity-altering roles. Mine appears to be temporary, though.

P.S. You'd switch me out for Haylen because I am SK-policy lynching you or what?

You are not reading my post in Tarhalindur's context. If dramonic is scum, I think Haylen is scum and you're town. Tarhalindur thinks if dramonic is scum, Haylen is town and you are scum. Even so, while I

DO

think you're policy lynching me, your motive for doing so comes off more like you think I'm lynch bait than you care about my alignment.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not too sure how to interpret your first response since either
a). I'm reading Socio wrong
b). you're reading him wrong
c). several players have claimed sanity-altering type 'role' (in addition to their cabal/inmate thing is) so I don't see what is the problem that you were thinking of.

Sociopath's claimed sanity alterations are Sane -> Naïve -> Paranoid -> Insane -> Sane. Mine are Sane <-> Insane and Naïve <-> Paranoid. What helps me make heads and tails out of the claim is that SocioPath's claim is that the sanity alteration is permanent, while my role PM seems to imply that mine only apply if I am targeted.

[StrangerCoug]

Tar, you sound bitter because you couldn't break the game like you wanted to.
Its starting to warp your perception of reality.

Tarhalindur is an experienced player; I expect him to easily come up with a Plan B.

[StrangerCoug]

ugh. serious setup hatred. how could this be so much worse than insane asylum 1???!!!!!!!

If you cannot handle being in Bastard Mod Central, replace out and let someone who can handle it play. We'd much rather you stomach it, but cutting your losses doesn't hurt the town much either.

To be fair, I consider Insane Asylum I my most bastardly completed game to date. This may or may not exceed it, but IA I certainly did not skimp on the bastardliness.

[StrangerCoug]

Do you honestly think I joined this game oblivious to the fact that the setup is likely screwed up, Corvuus? I'm not denying the possibility that I bit off more than I can chew with this game, but you are in no better of a position to complain about the game than I am.

[StrangerCoug]

There are three claimed millers (plus one dead one). Two of those claimed millers also claimed an infectious ability that reverses sanities of specific abilities (namely, all abilities they are millers to) for one night.

The only one who didn't is StrangerCoug..

Yes I did claim a sanity reversal for one night.

L-2, so as per Tarhalindur, time for me to reveal that I am a nightkill-immune modified miller vigilante. Modified as in I investigate the opposite I normally do to any given sanity cop.

Coug: Does your NK-Immunity state that all kills attempted on you fail, or does it bring kill sanity into the issue?

Kill sanity is referenced in the role PM. (So is doc sanity, but the only thing I think I should worry about in that clause is a naïve doctor.)

(The second quote corrects a formatting error caused by the move.)

[StrangerCoug]

= I never said ANYTHING about you joining a game oblivious to the fact that the setup is screwed up. I said "WTF mod, this is screwed up worse than IA1". You then said I should replace out if I can't stomach it? Seriously?

If you can handle the setup just fine, then it makes more sense to me for you to straight up say so in your response. Staying in despite being unable to handle the complexity would not make me happy, but is not a reliable tell either. If none of the options you had about staying and going were that damning, then why did you tell me off?

If you knew the setup is screwed up, why didnt you read your role better?

I expected to be able to grab all I needed in one passthrough. Apparently, in bastard mod games, that does not hold. (I can now safely say that my role in Mind Screw Mafia 4 also required more than one runthrough due to its length.)

[StrangerCoug]

SC, if you want to convince me to extension/potentially not lynch you could you:

1. Do a full claim (without risking modkill, or leaving anything out) of what your role is/how you understand it.

Nightkill-immune modified miller vig. All investigations, protections, and kills that target me have their sanity reversed. Every kill attempt made on me gets me a point, every kill I make costs me a point, and I can talk at night in thread.

Parts we know about your claim and that I want clarification on:
You are "NK immune", but according to earlier comments, you could be killed by a dayvig.
Later, you mention that you are charged based/powering up. Further elaboration said that you are sanity and protection reversal (miller by investigation as well) and, if i interpret correctly, any kills that get past your sanity 'armor' would get soaked up by your general kill immunity. So you are 'invincible' in terms of death, but unless there is a dayvig, redirector, naive doctor, you can't powerup to use your vig ability at all since, presumably, a normal mafia kill targeted on you would fail due to sanity reversal so your 'charge' defense wouldn't occur and wouldn't charge you up.
You are also a insane asylum patient who can talk at night.
You do not have a 'global' 1 time ability like the other claimed millers do.
You have not talked at night at all (day 1, nothing; day 2, lockdown).

Is there anything missing or wrong about this interpretation or how would you put it?

That's everything!

You also listed Haylen as your top suspect before? Anything further to add?

Haylen is still way up there, but dramonic has pretty much convinced me that he is lazy scum. dramonic didn't care about the lynch yesterday as long as we went after Haylen today, but now he's latched on me, calling Haylen town for no clear reason.

Vote: Deadline extension

[StrangerCoug]

@SC: ask the mod if all kills that target you will fail, barring power role kills that ignore nk-immunity. Also ask if you die from actions that only result in your death due to sanity. If not, ask if you receive points for such actions.

PM is out.

[StrangerCoug]

Official word is

ANY

attempt to kill me fails (unless it can get around protections) and gets me a point.

[StrangerCoug]

Haylen's had a lot of convenient problems lately. As much as I hate to find such RL situations scummy, it is a pretty consistent and reliable scumtell. As such, I demand she put this game as her top priority in mafia related things and post her thoughts asap.

Convienient my arse. Get this. I failed first year Psychology because during the exams I was going back and forward through police interviews and they wont accept that as evidence for mitigating circumstances. Now, I've just tried to get on a Social Work course but that's full too, my uni fails to realise that UCAS applications are void now because they deadline has past. Now I'm going have to wait for clearing, so I'll end up on a stupid course that I have no wish to complete or get a job from. Either that or I'm going to have to quit Uni for a year and take a gap year and get a full time job, which will totally ruin mine and Jordan's lives because we wont be able to keep up with rent AND council tax. On top of that, I'm suffering with problems with my heart, the guy I gave evidence for at the police station has expressed desires to kill me and I have every wish in the world to kill myself. Great and now my mother thinks I'm a worthless, useless pile of shit - not really any change there, usually she doesn't tell me though. Yes, I am crying right now, I apologise for any incorrect spelling or grammer. So no, my problems arent convienient. Kindly, fuck off.

And modding my newbie games is my top priority of MS. So you can fuck off on that one too.

Have a nice day.

Gee whiz, Haylen makes me look like I'm in seventh heaven...

I'm noting these two posts for later. I think this exchange more sensibly hurts magnus_orion because real life events are not a tell (and I'm pretty gosh darn sure we can verify whether Haylen's presence is iffy in general or just in this thread), but for me to be sure I have to give a lot more thought to this than I am right now.

[StrangerCoug]

My desire to have Haylen post content is not unusual, nor is scum using RL issues to justify not posting. While Haylen has claimed to have RL issues, there are two things to consider:
1. Is Haylen lying (honestly, I find this slightly unlikely. The amount of effort for the benefits of just one game is at the very least frustrating for someone to deal with)
2. Haylen is having RL issues, but this is not necessarily interfering to the degree she cannot comment. Rather she is using it as a personal and in-game excuse to avoid the game, for fear of becoming suspicious (this is more likely, and pretty commonplace)

If you honestly don't believe this type of thing is a scumtell, I can link a game, but its pretty widely accepted that not posting content when posting = scummy.

You are free to post a link if you feel it is important to my understanding of your opinion. I don't automatically think scum lie about RL issues, but I must admit that I've done it as that alignment. It's too late at night for me to grab my own link, but it's the open game I got complaints about throwing. I agree that contentless posts are a scumtell.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC: then I really don't understand what your problem is.

It's largely my preconception.

[StrangerCoug]

Your opinions. On everything. You to scumhunt. To make an effort in this game.

My current opinion is that if you are town, you're not playing to your wincon. You guys are completely and utterly ignoring that if SC is SK and we mislynch once town loses. Meanwhile, if he flips town we still have a chance for victory

I am not particularely open to the concept of playing blatantly against my win condition, therefore I will not be unvoting SC. Scumhunting will have to wait for his death.

I'm sorry, but regardless of my alignment, scumhunting does not have to come to a halt. It's fine to think I am the SK if you can back up such, but who is scum? I don't know what you're thinking other than you want me dead, and your last sentence pursues an anti-discussion route. I can see how it's to town's benefit to get rid of a kill at this point in case we're at 4:2:1, but trading one way to ensure a loss for another does not make me happy.

[StrangerCoug]

However, I'm willing for a vote on Dramonic. I still believe SC is SK.

Make up your mind, because those two lines of thinking are in blatant contradiction.

That is only true if Corvuus thinks you are a serial killer. Assuming an SK even exists in the first place, the worst I foresee happening if we lynch Mafia like you is opening Day 4 with 2:1:1, and even so, everybody playing correctly can still result in a town win. Too bad, so sad.

[StrangerCoug]

I won't even get into it with SC regarding 2:1:1 and 'correct' play that still results in a town win. Kingmaker is not something to be happy about.

I was not planning on going into detail anyway. We both win that.

[StrangerCoug]

Vote StrangerCoug

I believe I have stated my reasons for voting him are far greater than my reasons for believing SC isn't town and I'm going to state those reasons tomorrow because I need to write out 3 essays appealing against my exam boards decision.
Leaving SC alive will do more damage to the town than having him dead. Lynch him and we will be a scum down.

So we're going to make me into a utility lynch, plausibly because I've been so stupid throughout the game that I might as well have forgotten that I should stop vigging once we get to LYLO. (Note the word "plausibly"—this is more of an attempt to figure out your motive than to restate your post.) You need to understand the risks of utility lynches, Haylen. Not all possible permutations will keep us in the running.

[StrangerCoug]

SC: just wait for haylen/dram to post their case. Every single time you post, my mind just screams to lynch you. Try cleaning up your grammar and word choice (not that I am that great about it either). Your posts sounds like you have been vigging all game but you'll stop once we get to LYLO.

You can do some of the same by keeping vigging and SK'ing distinct, which doesn't look like what you're doing by making yourself look like you're willing to lynch someone you think is a vigilante.

Also, not a tell, but your telling me to clean up my grammar is a bit ironic here. My "posts sounds like"?

[StrangerCoug]

Your post is most likely supposed to be:
"I am a utility lynch. I'm a utility lynch because people think I am so stupid throughout this game (stupidity equivalent to someone who doesn't stop vigging once in lylo) that I must be scum".
To me on a first read, your post doesn't sound like this at all and the fact that you make up that example and it isn't from haylen/dram just makes it worse. It sounds like you have been killing this whole time.

Close enough. [/being an annoying nitpick]

[StrangerCoug]

@SC: how many games have you been an SK?

Two, lynched on the last and first day in that order.

[StrangerCoug]

We're headed fooooooooooor a mislynch!
Vote SC, it's the safest choice!

You can stop whining and complaining and make a decent case on somebody. I don't think it's correct to say we cannot be held accountable if we lynch you and you flip town, but you're digging your own grave right now.

[StrangerCoug]

We don't need excuses; we need you and Haylen to make an active contribution.

[StrangerCoug]

because I am sure he's a SK, because his claim makes no sense for a town role and he keeps going "oh, I forgot that detail" every other day

Oh come the hell on. DrippingGoofball posted a better case than that and it still got her lynched.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please note sig.

[StrangerCoug]

SC, if you don't post during this night phase then I personally will do my best to lynch you tomorrow. No excuses.

Agreed.

[StrangerCoug]

I will let mod action or inaction decide this for everybody.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm surprised it was Haylen, honestly. I would have voted her, but Corvuus wanted to hammer.

[StrangerCoug]

Making sense of Corvuus takes awhile for me, but it's entirely possible that he's town. I don't want to give my thoughts as to the last part of #1151 to avoid giving scum reading the thread an advantage, but I have played the rare 8:2:2 under UK.

[StrangerCoug]

SC/SP/Dram: who do you think is scum?

dramonic I'm pretty sold on for reasons that can be easily figured out by someone reading. I wouldn't know off-hand who else with an initial 8:3:1, but right now I think you are the best contender for third Mafia. SocioPath needs a reread before I'm sure about him, though.

[StrangerCoug]

*has trouble mentally breaking #1192 and #1194 into manageable chunks*

[StrangerCoug]

I hate post walls... I still have the belief that Corvuus is scummier than magnus_orion, but that's admittedly a preconception and I just know I'm missing important stuff from Corvuus vs. magnus_orion.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, OK, fine!

magnus_orion and Corvuus, can you summarize your case on each other in one paragraph?

[StrangerCoug]

It's fine if you don't; the two things I wanted were to spark discussion and get a better understanding of what's going on right now.

[StrangerCoug]

magnus_orion and Corvuus, can you summarize your case on each other in one paragraph?

I've SEEN their paragraphs...you might want to cut it from more than that. ;o

You don't have a 1,920×1,080 monitor, do you? Granted, they may be long reads, but looking at this page only, the longest paragraph by one of them takes up four lines on my screen.

Is asking that it be from three to five sentences reasonable for you?

[StrangerCoug]

I know. Line length increases as a result, though.

[StrangerCoug]

Major HoS: dramonic

Stop beating around the damn bush. The only reason I'm not voting you right now is because I want to make sure the initial breakdown is not 8:3:1 first.

[StrangerCoug]

Yep. 8:3:1 at the start means 3:2 now, which puts it at LYLO. 9:2:1 at the start makes today 4:1, meaning we can still afford a mislynch.

[StrangerCoug]

Remind me to check for subsequent pages ><

Mod: Do we have a vote extension left?

I'd really rather you didn't, but it's an option every day. You just won't have a mod for Thursday through Sunday, starting the 29th.

[StrangerCoug]

SC: you favor solo-scum right now? who?

Right now I think there's only one scum left, but I want to prepared for if there's two scum. I've been on dramonic since shortly before DrippingGoofball's death; in a two-scum scenario, I'm most inclined to add you.

Vote: Deadline extension

since we have two people that aren't going to be around a lot right now.

[StrangerCoug]

Ah, don't worry. That's what backups are for.

By my count, dramonic and I think it's 4:1, Corvuus thinks it's 3:2, magnus_orion is undecided and it's not clear to me which one SocioPath thinks. I want us to use the extra time to come to a consensus as to what the balance is. (Looking at SocioPath's most recent posts, though, I'm now starting to think he's scummier than Corvuus.)

[StrangerCoug]

Waiting for two other people to vote dramonic You told me to vote last, no?

[StrangerCoug]

yes i did. You could have said something regarding consensus or whether it was enough for you.

I'm pretty much fine.

[StrangerCoug]

Unless he was a reverse death miller, I want to beat dramonic senseless for reasons that should be pretty easy to figure out.

[StrangerCoug]

And apparently, they're not easy to figure out. When the hell is it a good idea to self-hammer as town?

[StrangerCoug]

I'm more than happy with a shot, but for me to use it requires either a No Kill or a No Lynch in the next cycle. Optimally not both. If I shoot in 3:1 and mishit, town loses. (If I am survivor, it does not matter to me whom I shoot given a scenario when I have an opportunity.)

If the Mafia kills tonight and I get a point, then we need the day to go on as long as possible for me to be the best informed on whom to lynch.

[StrangerCoug]

SC, please verify that if I protect you, you'll get a charge, and won't die, as opposed to dying.

Will do.

[StrangerCoug]

Darn >< I still blame dramonic.