Mini 971: Princess bride - They all lived .......

[Jack]

Confirm.

[Jack]

vote:SensFan

Will support quicklynch.

[Jack]

We only need three more votes to lynch Sens.

[Jack]

I think I know why kmd doesn't see Jackscum for me pushing the sens lynch

Parama. Lynching Sens is the best plan.

[Jack]

His sig says:

"Obligatory game records:
Town: 6W/3L
Mafia: 2W/1L
Other: 0W/0L
Ongoing games: 6, dead in 2 of them

I am biased against Jack for some reason"


There are two very good reasons for pushing a sens lynch, will I will perhaps share later.

[Jack]

Meta sucks. Stop using it.

No it doesn't. The fact that you are pushing bad reasoning on this is scummy.

Except it's in your sig and you say this every game so it's probably a null tell

no wait I guess I can't say that.

[Jack]

Okay, this has officially turned into a distraction.
Let's get back to the point.
Jack: What are your good reasons for lynching Sensfan?

I'll tell you when he gets enough votes. One of them has to do with not being upfront about it, sorry.

[Jack]

2 more votes.

[Jack]

Towniest self-vote I ever saw.

Not in the slightest. Townie seeming self votes tend to come from newish VI's who meltdown.

[Jack]

Are you implying that you would be ok with 1 more vote? Since you specifically object to 2 more votes but say nothing about 1 more vote.

[Jack]

The chance of a quickhammer does not concern you then.

[Jack]

Jeez, state an opinion on Sens already.

[Jack]

I don't think anyone has given a reason why more votes on Sens would be a bad thing.

[Jack]

I was hoping to see what arguments would be made for/against him being at L-1. It's a kind of pressure situation that you can get good reads from after the flip. Kinda didn't get much with the self hammer though.

[Jack]

fos:ekiM

Vote:DDD

4 more votes please.

[Jack]

It's kind of a shame sens flipped SK instead of mafia.

[Jack]

Sticking with a vote is a common scum thing. Laziness, not wanting to take risk publicly changing mind.

[Jack]

So...

"town lean on mike" but his efforts are in good faith. I don't think scum's efforts are ever in good faith in a 1 scum game (which this now is).

Only a town lean on mike though, and parama is "much more likely to be scum".

=

vote bv? Not scumhunting? Have you played with bv before?

[Jack]

bv not scumhunting is null tell. Who are you going to vote for now?

[Jack]

We're not giving bv310 a free pass to not scumhunt.

By "we" you mean you and DDD? Why would you say that?

Jack, what were your two "very good reasons" for pushing a lynch on Sens?

Humor me and guess.

[Jack]

DDD is scum because:

a) weird dancing around the sens wagon in iso 1,2,3. His first comment on the game is to object to lynching sens, but he is just fine with l-1...this is his only input on the day. This is mafioso wanting the lynch to happen.

b) Next is his "town lean on mike, parama is MUCH more likely to be scum, I'll vote a lurker" vote from day 2. "tut tut we must force him to scumhunt" when DDD hasn't done jack himself.

c) Finally in ISO 8 he finds a reason to stick with his bv vote, he is clearly scum just settling down

I waited around to see what he'd do, answer is nothing.

[Jack]

3 more votes on DDD.

[Jack]

I'm tired and distracted at the moment, and don't play that well when I am. Hopefully my enthusiasm will be renewed at some point in the near future.

[Jack]

ekiM I laid out my thoughts on DDD which he gave some BS response to.

[Jack]

Quick reread of most of day 1.

Will add SPS and parama as my other two suspects.

[Jack]

I think DDD is guilty for role related reasons. Lynch him please.

[Jack]

unvote

Be back in a minute.

[Jack]

I didn't lie, but I'm more interested in Parama and SPS at the moment, explain why later.

Macavity--

How often would you say you get investigated?
Have you ever been investigated by the cop as scum?
You ever been in a game with a miller before?
Ever been in a game where scum claimed miller?
Ever been in a game where scum made a bold claim day one?
How do you feel about name claiming?

Horrordude:
Why do you think miller claim is a nulltell?
Do you think DDD is trying to divert attention from the sens lynch because he was on it along with a scumbuddy? I don't understand this.
How does DDD's content compare to other players?
Why do you want DDD to claim if you don't know what to think of my role related info and think I'm scummy?

vote:horrordude

[Jack]

well, I understand hack's questioning of Mac.

and I am glad of the unvote to keep today going a bit longer.

dont understand the horror questions and vote....and I dont like the fact he is avoiding questions....jack, answer the questions that have been posed to you please.

horrordude is screaming scum, what don't you understand about the vote?

Macavity seems town.

[Jack]

Yes, I worry about mike, but that's a playstyle I misread a lot (he writes very carefully). I misread him as scum for a long time in gonzo.

[Jack]

"Role-related information" is a clever way of saying "I really think so-and-so is scum and I want you guys to lynch him."

How did you

know

this Parama?

[Jack]

And I would appreciate it if you would please answer my questions I asked you

Why the winking smiley?

[Jack]

1 scum game means 1 scum group.

[Jack]

I think CKD is scum.

[Jack]

ekiM (3) Parama, Horrordude, Steam Powered Shovel

I just can't get on this wagon.

[Jack]

I don't feel like I have strong reads.

[Jack]

I think CKD is scum.

So why aren't you voting him?

Vote: Jack

Oh my god, you got me there.

[Jack]

Delayed omgus.

[Jack]

unvote, vote:Shovel

[Jack]

We still have another 4 days before lynch, Shovel... why are you trying to rush this?

Requesting a claim from you.

Horror needs to die already.

unvote, vote:horror

Although, the ekim lynch was bad mostly by virtue of horror being on it, and he did jump off for crappy reasons.

[Jack]

Nah, I'm just that beast

Vote horrordude.

[Jack]

Nah, I'm just that beast

Vote horrordude.

Why? I don't like listening to you usually

Why not?

[Jack]

The "I didn't investigate jack because I knew I couldn't breadcrumb an innocent result" bit is very weird.

[Jack]

Speaking of which, Shovel your vote for me is ill-placed. You're voting me for following Jack, which is something you should be OK with seeing as you did too. We only have a day and a half until deadline so who are you going to vote for?

He also was ok with following me despite supposedly being an information role himself...

[Jack]

Let's just lynch horror sticking at soft claim at l-2 with deadline coming up, after eagerly demanding claims from two people.

[Jack]

Parama, for future reference, whenever I ask for a claim, that basically means I'm willing to hammer. Is that good enough for you.

Also,

V/LA as indicated in the Sig

"Claim please DDD, I'm ready to hammer"
"Claim please SPS, I'm ready to hammer"
*soft claim*
*soft claim*
*deadline tomorrow*
"V/LA till tomorrow guys"

[Jack]

Sorry Par, I read the case and ISO'd him but I don't see anything particularly scummy. He could be but I'm not interested.

[Jack]

I can claim now if you guys want

Just die.

[Jack]

I will not be able to get on before tomorrow, and in case the deadline extension isn't granted:

I am Westley's Lover, the person that Sensfan tried to marry. I am a hider, who, if I hide with Prince Humperdink or a person targeted for a kill, I will be killed. Otherwise, I am protected from night kills. I cannot claim my true name or else I will be modkilled.

Doesn't jibe with this:

Because I'm totally pro-town and lynching me would NOT be in your best interest

Because hider is a weak role. Scum like to pretend that their role is super important when they soft claim.

Hider is a role you shouldn't have big qualms about claiming, because they weren't going to try and kill you anyway, and the only use of it is if they try and kill you and fail.

[Jack]

No let's stick with horror.

Townies get pissed when they don't think the case is good.

[Jack]

Prince Humpadick is evil, and buttercup is only marrying him because she thinks her true love westley is dead.

[Jack]

I don't want to lynch ekiM today. Don't want to lynch mac either.

If we're going to leave the claimed/semi-claimed trifecta alone (sps, par, horror) then we have:

ckd
kmd
ddd
cmar

And I suppose we can cross ckd off because of the investigation.

But I doubt that kmd, ddd, and cmar are our scum team. I'll do a recheck on them before deadline though. They are kind of the lurkiest.

[Jack]

I will go for a CMAR lynch.

[Jack]

Yeah, I could go for CMAR--DDD--SPS/horror.

[Jack]

I think I would rather lynch DDD

unvote, vote:DDD

[Jack]

hmm after the flip I was thinking I'd provisionally put everyone on the DDD lynch in the town pile and parama in the scum pile.

Haven't reread but don't see a reason to change that

vote:Parama

Possible partner...kmd? I don't know.

[Jack]

You confirmed the role name? Why did you act like that was in any way useful?

[Jack]

But flavor doesn't indicate alignment.

[Jack]

Fezzik is a good guy. And inigo flipped town.

[Jack]

I targetted ekiM but I got blocked.

Vote: ekiM

That's no reason to think you got blocked by ekiM. If you got blocked at all.

[Jack]

Fezzik is a good guy.

Doesn't start that way
Same could be said about Inigo too, I guess.
Meh, flavor.

No, not "meh,flavor". Flavor doesn't indicate alignment. That would be the assumption going into the game anyway, don't you think? And wasn't someone quoting previous farside games where the flavor didn't indicate alignment? So why did you pretend like your horror thing (if it was a thing) was meaningful?

[Jack]

The block and the vote are unrelated methinks.

So it's a crappy reason-less vote on a probable townie, with an unrelated bit added to look like a reason?

[Jack]

I think it is pretty clear that parama is scum.

[Jack]

When I reread those two made you look very scummy.

[Jack]

It's nice to confirm that you think they were townie though. Because what looked scummy about them is that they looked like scum doing something he thought was townie.

[Jack]

I don't want to impress you with my logic. And your "you can't prove that it is impossible for a townie to have made those posts" logic doesn't impress me.

4 more votes.

[Jack]

CMAR
Kmd

horrordude

MacavityLock
ekiM

I guess this is where the 4 votes need to come from.

[Jack]

I agree, but I don't understand the last sentence.

[Jack]

Checking back in. Don't feel like looking for the 3rd scum until after parama is lynched.

[Jack]

Checking back in. Don't feel like looking for the 3rd scum until after parama is lynched.

Lynching me won't help find any scum
Also why do you think there's 3 scum? We already have a dead SK and a dead goon, 9:2:1 would make sense. Not saying that it's guaranteed to be that but it seems more likely than 8:3:1

I thought it said that, but I guess that was another game. Seems likely anyway.

[Jack]

Here's the thing though. Regardless of whether parama believed that flavor didn't indicate alignment (his scummy dancing on that issue make it likely that he knew it quite well, and just wants to act like he didn't) for all farside knew the very first lynch would be fezzick the goon, and then inigo the townie would be killed that night. What was parama supposed to make of his investigation results then? You don't make a role who's value is dependent on the person who gets it misinterpreting the setup. If the role had gone to someone who knew from playing in past games that farside doesn't make flavor indicate alignment, then what the hell are they supposed to do with results that say "prince" or "princess"? Catch them fake claiming, but why would they?

[Jack]

There is no point in mass claiming.

[Jack]

Quick thought: what do people think about massclaim today?

Don't think it will help, but I have no problem claiming.

If you don't think it'll help, why don't you have a problem with claiming?

[Jack]

CMAR is next most likely scum, and I like the people on his wagon more than the people on the par wagon.

I still see no way for Par's claimed role to be real. Can someone help me out with that? I talked about it near the top of the last page. Setup analysis is not my strongpoint.

[Jack]

I didn't make the setup, and I didn't make my role. So don't blame me for it. That's all my role does.

We aren't

blaming

you. Misrep and slight AtE.

[Jack]

Or a pissed off townie.

If you aren't lynched today, I will make a frownie.

[Jack]

If I'm not lynched today then we don't waste a day lynching me.

Let's lynch you, then we'll see.

[Jack]

cmar is probably bussing praama

[Jack]

Parama was doing that because he thinks scum wouldn't do it. And it convinces some people apparently.

[Jack]

Parama, what do you think of CMAR?

[Jack]

unvote

Although I may just revote if I'm too busy to do a reread. I dislike cmar's absenteeism enough to check him out though.

[Jack]

Parama and SPS need to vote for someone else.

[Jack]

I wanna say CMAR and SPS are scum. I'm tired of parama atm.

[Jack]

It's in the archive.

Can you stop distracting us with irrelevancies, Parama?

REALLY SPS, HE'S DISTRACTING YOU? FROM WHAT? NOT POSTING?

Quick thought: what do people think about massclaim today?

I wouldn't be opposed to it.

SPS has already claimed and is acting very confidant in his suspicion of ekiM. No town reason for wanting massclaim.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Jack]

I'm waiting to see what SPS and parama do with their votes.

[Jack]

The ekiM wagon is so obviously dead. It has never been remotely viable.

[Jack]

unvote, vote:CMAR

[Jack]

Yeah, I think it's sps too.

Don't know what good will come from the mass claim but we might as well do it.

[Jack]

Because I think he's scum. Obviously.

Despite pushing a cmar lynch when parama was an easy lynch? etc, obvscum.

[Jack]

The Albino, Townie.

[Jack]

No one claimed vizzini then. So that's probably the name of the last scum. Does that mean scum is in one of the less likely name claims that was left as a safeclaim?

[Jack]

I have a bit of a problem with Macavitylock's claim... In the movie/book, Westley IS the Dread Pirate Roberts. Parama already claimed Westley, no? And if you could possibly point to some flavor that may indicate that's a character suitable for a miller, it'd be much appreciated.

The dread pirate roberts is kind of a bad guy but not really evil like some of the others. This game has kind of stuck to flavor for the roles but not really closely.

The title is passed on so that there have been many dread pirate robert's. Or maybe farside wasn't paying much attention.

There are many princesses in the book iirc, why can't you claim your full name again?

[Jack]

Technically I'm also Dread Pirate Roberts so

I though westley handed on the title to his first mate or something.

[Jack]

Modkill if I do.

Why?

It's interesting that you say that

How interesting?

Not necessarily... Fezzik was scum, but Inigo was town.

Vizzini was a major character though, you'd expect him to appear, especially with the mod stretching for characters. I'm wondering if scum didn't want to claim him for some reason. Because if humperdink, count rugen, and vizzini were scum then they might realize that claiming a bad character is not a good way to go.

[Jack]

hmm, yes, during the movie westley is still the dread pirate roberts.

[Jack]

If vizzini was town he would have name claimed vizzini.

The only thing to dislike about ML is that he didn't push DDD harder d2 when he claims he thought I had role related reasons for voting him. My instinct as townie in that situation has been to go after the person hard and try and get them lynched so that the cop/tracker etc doesn't have to claim.

But he also voted DDD before deadline and pushed cmar over parama.

The fact that his flavor is contradictory goes with the miller claim actually.

Horror's inability to name claim continues to be very strange. SPS is most likely scum though...hmm.

[Jack]

hmm, SPS has been doing jackall, but isn't the town kind of hamstrung without a town cop? 4 scum, and the only town roles are doctor, weird hider role, and weird rolecop? And we have a miller and a scum godfather (assuming from sword boss).

On the other hand, a town cop is kind of nerfed in this setup anyway. 2/4 scum turn up innocent (assuming sk I.I.), and a guilty has a 1/3 chance of being on a townie, and after a claim the cop is roleblocked.

I don't hold his non-dying against him though.

[Jack]

Yeah. I was thinking that the poisoned pointed towards vizzini (although it was westley in the movie, it seems like a vizzini thing).

But I don't see what the kmd quote has to do with it, because that was day 2...you'd think he would die n2.

hmm so many things to think about.

An actual poisoner as a role rather than kill flavor seems unlikely. So that doesn't rule out a scum roleblocker. And scum can roleblock + kill usually.

But I'm wondering if westley isn't the last mafia after all. He was the one with the poison. They wouldn't have used it out of fear of revealing that perhaps.

But so many of the other roles have a link between flavor and function. I have to look at that.

[Jack]

SensFan -Prince Humperdink - Serial Killer (3rd PARTY)
Amiphorv1 - MiracleMax-Doctor (TOWN)
DDD -Fezzik (aka Andre the giant) - goon (SCUM)
curiouskarmadog - Inigo Montoya - swordsman (TOWN)
CryMeARiver - Count Tyrone Rugeen - Sword boss (SCUM)
Kmd4390 - The Clergyman - Townie (TOWN)

Jack--The Albino--Townie
MacavityLock--Dread Pirate Roberts--Miller
ekiM--Grandson--Townie
Parama--Westley--Hero
Horror--Westley's lover--hider
SPS--Grandfather--Cop

Flavor seems to be fitting generally. Actually it looks like all of the flavor fits except for SPS.

Humperdinck was creepy kind of murderer. MiracleMax was a doctor. Fezzick was a hired goon. Inigo was a swordsman. The Count was a sword boss. The clergyman, the albino, and the grandson are all bit characters. Dread pirate roberts you would think is evil, but is actually a good guy--westley.

Parama and horror have weird roles. I can see the hider dying if they hide with humperdinck. Parama's role is a bit more useful now that it seems that flavor is a bit more damning than we would have thought. I can't help but feel there is more going on with these two. It seems like parama had the ability to find the princess for a reason, and horror couldn't name claim for a reason.

But I see no reason at all for the grandfather to be the cop, it doesn't make sense.

Also, I'm now noticing that CKD flipped swordsman. Which seems to be a protown role of some kind.

[Jack]

mmm, if we assume cop then it seems like either Mac or Parama. In which case it seems like obv parama. But I think Mac is much better scum than parama. And his line of reasoning about the poisoner is off. Errg.

[Jack]

You know I'm starting to really think it's Mac.

[Jack]

Rereading wolf/cmar and compiling some stuff.

could also be a scum gambit though. Hard to tell one way or the other right now.

Wolf does what I would have done and policy votes bv. Good job wolf!
ML claims Miller and has a "semi-random" vote on SPS for trying to force a joke
Sens vote ML for claiming miller
Parama wins town points for reaction to miller claim
Wolf gains town points for his open mind about miller claim

ML says Sens' selfvote is very townie. +dumb points
DDD and Jack argument-I think Jack is just trying to be funny, but DDD has a good point +little town points
ekiM says he has never seen a miller claim, but then says that some people do like to lynch millers. Also has bullshit reasons for find Parama scummy. +scum points
CKD says that "ML is not the lynch for today" which I don't like. If you find him scummiest, you vote/lynch him, no matter what his claim. Maybe just a slip of the tongue, so I'll let it by for now.
ML makes a protown vig comment +town points

cmar has no real reaction to miller claim but gives people town points and mentions what they think about it a lot.


Also, it didn't seem like cmar was bussing parama yesterday. I have a feeling that Mac was bussing cmar though.

[Jack]

Why do you keep holding the whole "I can't nameclaim without being modkilled" against me? I didn't choose the restriction, and I think my role is pretty obvious from what I've said...

Yeah I guess there's no reason for you to make it up as scum.

*****************

Looking back at the DDD lynch, Mac voted DDD at 4:00 am eastern, with deadline being at 7:30 am pst. It's rare for people to vote in the morning.

[Jack]

Just wondering, Macavity, what was your theory on me?

Not worth mentioning, trust me, and may be anti-town to do so. I will discuss post-game if still curious.

What was this theory?

[Jack]

No, Mac is scum. I'm quite sure.

[Jack]

ebwop:

Hey parama, why don't you do a rundown on the living players.

[Jack]

Looking back at the DDD lynch, Mac voted DDD at 4:00 am eastern, with deadline being at 7:30 am pst. It's rare for people to vote in the morning.

I live in CA. I voted at 1 AM before I went to sleep, knowing that I would almost certainly not wake up before the deadline to make a vote.

And perhaps assuming that there wouldn't be 2 other people to switch in the middle of the night.

Look at my play, basically jump-starting the DDD lynch, and completely leading the CMAR lynch.

----

See above. Also several other things which I'll mention later. When you thought that I had a night result on DDD why didn't you push on him?

Just wondering, Macavity, what was your theory on me?

Not worth mentioning, trust me, and may be anti-town to do so. I will discuss post-game if still curious.

What was this theory?

My theory was that horror was actually a Beloved Princess, which is a role that upon dying gives the scum two consecutive night phases. If this were true, I thought it was highly likely that Parama's limited role cop was an obv-scum role. I didn't want horror to directly claim "Beloved", which is why I asked for yes or no only. When he said that he had in fact full-claimed, my theory was no longer viable.

Eh.

[Jack]

I think DDD is guilty for role related reasons. Lynch him please.

Jack, this was a lie. Explain.

Thanks. Now you're confirmed scum.

[Jack]

Vote:MacavityLock

[Jack]

I think DDD is guilty for role related reasons. Lynch him please.

Jack, this was a lie. Explain.

Thanks. Now you're confirmed scum.

... Why?

Role related information.

[Jack]

Final Day 1 Vote Count:

vote count:

bv310 (1) wolframnhart
Parama (2), Steam Powered Shovel, ekiM
SensFan (7) bv310, curiouskarmadog, animorpherv1, Jack, Parama, Kmd439, SensFan
Shovel (1) MacavityLock

Not voting:

Debonair Danny DiPietro

Deadline is May 26th, 2:10pm PST
With 12 alive it will take 7 to lynch

That is a lynch. Story will be up in a few moments.

Does the Sens lynch happen without scum on it? Neither DDD nor wnh (CMAR) were on that lynch. So unless that's a pure townie lynch,

of the SK

, we're looking at

bv

horror, Jack, or Parama.

One of my first games here an obvious townie was strung up D1, including quickhammer. I was off the wagon and vigged the quickhammerer. He was town. All the scum were off the wagon (I'm 90% sure on that).

Remember that the sens wagon was a fast d1 wagon that ended when he hammered himself not by any natural conclusion. DDD also revealed himself as scum by dancing on the edge of it and wolf is a lurker. All in all this is a terrible argument.

[Jack]

Remember that the sens wagon was a fast d1 wagon that ended when he hammered himself not by any natural conclusion. DDD also revealed himself as scum by dancing on the edge of it and wolf is a lurker. All in all this is a terrible argument.

A fast D1 wagon makes it all the more likely that there was scum on it.

No not really, as the example I gave shows.

Also, that argument fails at probability. When we already know that 2 scum weren't on the wagon, it becomes way more likely that the third wasn't. And DDD's posts show that scum were wary of the wagon.

[Jack]

Ok, here's some further explanation on a point that Mac's been ignoring.

Actually, I did mention DDD. I voted for him in my first vote of the day, very obviously following Jack. I figured based on Jack's early vote that Jack actually did have role-related info on DDD, I followed him early, and when he claimed the info, I clearly believed him. Read my isos 9 and 17 please.

Interestingly, I had this scenario happen to me in a different game.

I believed that SpyreX had role related info on Anon. This was my townie reaction:

I remember now. I saw something yesterday that made me think Anon was scum. Don't know what it was though.

unvote, vote:Anon

Comment--fabrication, Anon was not on my radar at all.

If SPS was scum (what's the flavor thing about him not being an elf = shouldn't go to Mandos?) then Anon is a likely scumbuddy. He he kind of flits around the wagon. The only person he's really pushed is FFFF. Read his ISO.

I went back and reread to find some dirt on Anon.

I'm voting Anon. Maybe you should too.

Pushed wagon on Anon.

Anon's scumbuddies don't want him to be lynched.

etc.

Can you summarize why you don't know what the case on Anon is for me?

I say full speed ahead on the Anon wagon.

He was kind of a lurker so I couldn't get much in the way of a case going.

I thought we were attempting to destroy Elscouta.

It's kind of like you think saying you haven't been reading this day carefully will make people think you're town.

oh look Anon stretched to find a reason to vote me without trying to look like he is saving self ...lame (not the act of saving self, but the bullshit reason you are doing it).

Yeah, that case was fake.

Now, it turned out SpyreX had only Jailkept Anon and wasn't sure he was scum. He backed off the wagon of his own accord. Anon was scum though. My townie instinct was to automatically try and push the Anon wagon so that the power role wouldn't have to claim and the scum would be lynched. Contrast with Mac's reaction. He mentions ISO's 9-17.

In 9 he calls out some people for lurking

The following people need to post content like now: bv, wolf, DDD.

...
Jack, you're playing a most dangerous game. Vote: DDD

And calls attention to the fact that I posted what he thought meant I had role related information. Which if he actually thought, he shouldn't have mentioned my name at all...

10-12 are about stuff other than DDD.

13 and 14 are about his V/LA.

In 15 he switches to Parama.

In 16 he switches to SPS.

And 17 is the post after I said that bit about role related information.

This is especially nice:

Post 231:

3 more votes on DDD.

Post 232:

The recent ekiM-Parama debate convinces me to

Unvote. Vote: Parama.

[Jack]

Also, that argument fails at probability. When we already know that 2 scum weren't on the wagon, it becomes way more likely that the third wasn't. And DDD's posts show that scum were wary of the wagon.

BS alert. Scum don't act as a group, especially on Day 1. Why wouldn't scum want to go for the mislynch (from their perspective)?

Time to put my money where my mouth is. VOTE: Jack

Here was the vote count:

SensFan (5) bv310, curiouskarmadog, animorpherv1, Jack, SensFan

It went up very quick, some of these are random votes. Now, is scum going to want to be 6th and 7th on a lynch with a self voter and no backing to it? No. In fact, you said:

Towniest self-vote I ever saw.

So you clearly had a reason to avoid the wagon. And we already know that DDD and wolf did.

DDD was cautious of the wagon too:

Two more votes is lynch, so you'll tell us the reasons for lynching Sens after we've already lynched him. Yeah, that's probably not going to work for me so much.

And this is the post I voted him for and pushed him all the next day.

Scum like a quick mislynch, but they sure as hell don't want to be on the tail end of it, that's mafia 101. Lynch was on page 5 btw.

[Jack]

OK, given that Kmd was poisoned, the remaining killer is almost certainly either Vizzini or Westley, probably Vizzini. (Vizzini uses poisons, Westley built up an immunity to them, so would probably have access to them.) Note that all other night kills have been just plain "killed". I'm wondering whether "poisoning" is a special role, and I've had this suspicion since Day 2. Let me present the following. (Yay, we have post numbers back!)

Dear Town,

After we lynch ekiM, and the scum kill me tonight, I have a final request. My wish is that you guys lynch Steam-Powered Shovel tomorrow.

Don't mourn the loss of me as I've grown ill and would be likely to pass soon anyway. Due to this illness, I've become very aware of the strong value of human life, including lives of those who have made bad choices.

However, I must make an exception in Steam's case. The reason for this is that Steam, along with his partner in crime, ekiM, is guilty of conspiracy for murder and a takeover of our wonderful town. I believe in justice and will gladly give my own life for what is right. Do not let these murderer scumbags get away with this wrong doing. Be strong and do what is right after my death. I will be here for the remainder of the day to see to it that ekiM sees the gallows by nightfall.

Yours Truly,

Kmd.

So there's that. First question: Has anyone been told that they have been poisoned?

Secondly, if Poisoner is a role, the last remaining role, wouldn't that conflict with the roleblocking that SPS has been claiming?

Back to Mac's "Poisoner" case. A poisoner targets someone at night, and they die the next night. If kmd was poisoned night 1, he would have died n2. And why would the target be informed that they had been poisoned? Makes no sense. So this argument just seems designed to lynch SPS. And if the scum poisoner was an extra role like a roleblock then the scum would have two kills.

Given even numbers, at some point we should be doing No Lynch, but I don't know if that's today or tomorrow.

This fits in with the general theme I see today. Mac bussed cmar to set himself up as obvtown. That's what he was thinking, and when he comes in today he is ready to be town leader. He organizes the mass claim, and says stuff like this. But this is obviously STUPID. He hasn't really thought about it at all. We have HIDER role (who Mac is supposed to have been thinking about a lot with various theories). It's very possible that we have 2 deaths the night we do a no lynch.

Additionally, his "consideration of the mass claim results" has very little at all to do with the case he posts here. So the pro town leader stuff was just for show.

[Jack]

Doing a review of yesterday.

Parama and ekiM and to a lesser extent SPS are the targets. ekiM is the only one who suspects cmar.

Mac's comment is:

My current read is that CMAR needs to go.

Then he has several questions for parama and horror.

His cmar vote:

Parama doesn't read as DDD's scumbuddy to me. CMAR definitely does. VOTE: CMAR. This is mostly based on a close skim, so deeper digging is required, but I want to plant a flag in a CMAR wagon for now.

At this point the day is up in the air. Staking out a claim on your buddies wagon is actually a very good move. And coincidentally that is exactly what Mac says ("plant a flag for now").

ekiM is pushing cmar, and I am saying that cmar is next most likely scum.

Horror puts Par at L-1 for shaky reasoning.

I think if you look at this day, after the parama lynch cmar is the next lynch. He hasn't claimed, and the other people are Jack, ekiM (both anti-cmar) the claimed cop and the claimed hider (who will look a lot better when Par flips town). So it is ideal play for Mac to push the cmar lynch. I actually think his reasoning here is very shoddy:

People, the following post does not come from scum buddied with DDD.

WHOOPS DEADLINE PASSED AND I'M NOT CHANGING MY VOTE ANYWAYS. NOT THAT I NEED TO. I BET WE JUST LYNCHED THE MOST POWERFUL TOWN ROLE ON ACCIDENT OR SOMETHING. OR WE LYNCHED SCUM AND MY ML/EKIM THEORY IS WRONG. IF DDD FLIPS SCUM EKIM IS STILL SCUM THOUGH.

Okay, done with the caps for now.

The following is the

only

mention of DDD in WNH and CMAR combined play.

Page 4

...
DDD and Jack argument-I think Jack is just trying to be funny, but DDD has a good point +little town points

We lynch CMAR today.

It is not a good argument for Par's innocence and not a good argument for cmar's guilt. For Mac, it is ideal if Par is lynched while he is urging for cmar.

cmar's reaction to that case:

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet, now show me one game where I ever buddied my scumbuddy Good luck with that since I try to either stay away from them or bus them

Parama, more setup WIFOM and AtE is awesome

Not the slightest bit hostile.

********

So this smells like a bus from the start, with no power behind it in case the town wants to lynch parama. Which we very, very, very nearly did.


Additionally, by PoE:

Parama and Horror have roles that match the flavor and work together. Weird, but it works.
SPS--cop, role actually does match flavor, town seems underpowered without him.
ekiM--has been obv town all game, killed DDD at deadline.

Additionally parama and SPS have been tunneling on an obvtown player which in retrospect is too silly for them to be scum.


***************

Ok, I think that's everything on Mac. He has been on both scum wagons, but NOT AT ALL in the way a townie would be on those wagons. This is how you catch bussing scum people.

The "town seems underpowered without an SPS-cop" argument is still up in the air. I'm not good at setup analysis. I think it works though. 4 scum, and the town roles are doctor, hider, and limited namecop? Well I don't know what swordsman does unfortunately. In 3-1-8 games town can mislynch twice and lose.

[Jack]

There was probably scum that jumped on the wagon early, which is likely why DDD and wnh avoided it. That's my point. It makes bv/horror and you look worse, Parama better.

What are you babbling about? I look scummy for forcing DDD into the fence sitting position? Scum avoided the wagon because there was already scum on it, what are you talking about? The avoided the wagon because it was really fast and had a self vote and a random vote, tell me why you as scum would put a 6th vote on that wagon.

When Kmd made that post Day 2, my thoughts went to poisoner. When he didn't die Night 2, I moved on. Seeing it now brought the thought back up again. Who says that a Poisoner must kill the following night? It's likely, but is it 100%?

No, it's 99.9%. So lets lynch SPS because there is a .1% chance that there isn't a scum roleblocker because we have a crazy scum poisoner role?

It's very possible that we have 2 deaths the night we do a no lynch.

Uh, what? How would this be possible?

Scum kill the person the hider is hiding behind, they both die. If the hider is silly about it. Which they could very easily be.

You've entirely avoided explaining why you lied, and then lied about lying.

Never lied and you look terrible trying to push this. My role is townie and involves reading the thread. The information on DDD came from reading the thread. Thus it is role related information.

[Jack]

Okay, so these 4 issues are the only ones Mac feels he has an argument to stand on:

I wouldn't, but that's not what I'm talking about here. bv was the 1st vote and you were the 4th. Neither of those are particularly scary votes to be as scum.

Your argument was that there had to be one scum on the wagon. I am saying that the scumteam is Mac-DDD-Wolf. DDD and Wolf were not on the wagon. You are saying that as scum you would not be on the wagon. So you are saying that there doesn't have to be any scum on the wagon. QED

Did I say we should lynch SPS because of it?

Secondly, if Poisoner is a role, the last remaining role, wouldn't that conflict with the roleblocking that SPS has been claiming?

If SPS was lying about being roleblocked then he would be scum.

More BS. I think we can figure out a way to tell the Hider to not hide if we do No Lynch.

You can figure it out when you mention the possibility of no lynch, and that's what pro-town leaders usually do. My argument is that you were thinking more about looking innocent yourself than about the best town strategy, and not mentioning an obvious and important part of the strategy fits right in with that.

Are you kidding me? That's your excuse?

****************************

3 more votes on Mac. I threw a lot of stuff out there but the important bits are these:

1) town players don't react to what they think is an unstated cop/tracker type result the way he reacted
2) no town cred for bussing like scum
3) flailing today
4) PoE

[Jack]

Well I have nothing to say.

[Jack]

[Jack]

We only need 2 votes on Mac.

[Jack]

But why do we want to mislynch and ruin our perfect game?

Psh, we got lucky on the first one anyway. Why is m-lock a mislynch?

[Jack]

Okay, I've caught up, and I believe that the right move here is to

Vote: SPS

This is functionally a hammer given how close deadline is. bv, why do you even play mafia? Switch to Mac please.

[Jack]

Awesome...

Mac, I knew I was going out on a limb with that case, but how come you omgus voted me and refused to answer the accusations?

[Jack]

Yeah, I got burned a couple times by scum bussing and then coasting to a win while we lynched the "obv scum" townies, didn't want to let that happen again. Probably should have lynched sps first. Well we did I guess.

Anyway, town sweep I guess and none from a pr find. Strange though in that I don't think we full lynched any scum. sens self hammered and all the others died at deadline with less than a majority. That rule should be default imo, it helps the town and avoids that "we must get enough votes!" mafia-friendly frenzy.

[Jack]

We won and all, but the last day did kinda suck.

[Jack]

d2 was tons of fun as well. d3 had it's moments.