Mini 957 - Everyone's a Hero Mafia - Game Over

[Thor665]

@Snow Bunny - since you full claimed you might as well be the first one in our popcorn claim now. Could you kindly name who you'd like to claim next?

@Thor: I'd rather not think too much about the NKs. In my experience, both as town and as scum, it brings only wifom into the table. And, about the McGriddle thingy, it's useless to discuss that. He did something that broke a rule. 'nuff said.

To the discussion of NKs - I disagree. It's important to analyze NKs to at least obligate scum to have to pick WIFOM options for the NKs. If you don't analyze then scum are free to kill exactly whom they wish/need to kill. It's better to use the info some way so scum have to play cards closer to their chests.

To the discussion of McGriddle - I do find it interesting that you are against this particular conversation when your scumteam of Thor/Timeater are the ones who did it and used the information to semi-clear a slot you apparently believe is town. Why do you think the scum team would do this?

What do you think makes SOG town?

[semioldguy]

It seems that she would want Timeater to claim next.

I agree with Thor about night kills as theory though, if the kills and potential reasons for them are ignored it just allows scum to do whatever they want with the kill with no fear of linking it to them. There can always be a bit of something found in who dies during the night.

[semioldguy]

I think voting before everyone has claimed isn't a good idea during a mass claim as it gives scum a chance to end the game before we can get all the information we could have to make an informed decision.

[Timeater]

I just replaced in. Will have a post of my views tommorow.

Please comment soon.

THE BUNNY SITUATION

@Thor: I'd rather not think too much about the NKs. In my experience, both as town and as scum, it brings only wifom into the table. And, about the McGriddle thingy, it's useless to discuss that. He did something that broke a rule. 'nuff said.

Ok, time to claim, I guess: I'm Anonymous. My shiny power is to create clones, and use them as meatshields. Yep, I'm basically an unlynchable - unNkable rechargeable townie. I didn't want to say this before as I would use my ability to prevent a Nk, but it seem I wasn't good enough as a target... T_T. Now, seeing that it really doesn't matter much (unless of course, we hit scum. But it's a all-or-nothing situation. So... yeah.)

"Lets not analyze the nigthkills...derp"

Strange, there is no "Anonymous" in the Dr. Horrible wikia. All of the roles so far have been listed on that site. Can you explain that? Also, I do not see where or how your role fits into the show. Can you define exactly where you fit into the Dr. Horrible universe?

Also, the age-old notion of scum claiming unlynchable. AND unkillable. lol.

Now, some quick thoughts. My guess is that Timeater and Thor are scum. Timeater more scummy than Thor. Thor's suspicious is based mostly on a general gut I've gotten from him through the game, while Timeater reads scum. Wanting to lynch based on lurking at this point of the game is awfully scummy, and his reactions seem like desperate scum trying to get a win.

SOG is town, btw. So, that leaves us with Timeater, Thor and McGriddle. And I'm leaning Timeater as 95% scum right now.

Yes, TE and Thor are scum, the two people who have been playing this game the hardest. The two people who have been the most active. We are just two scum bantering back and forth for no other reason to look townie. Yep, you caught us. And let me stop you before you start "oh look its the active townie argument, that doesn't mean anything!' - commence eye-rolling.

Why do I read scum? Make your points and list your case.

Why does thor read scum? Make your points and list your case.

How do you know SOG is town? You did not claim to have investigative abilities, so how do you know for sure?

You were wise to lurk most of the game. You can't play scum for crap.

@sog

First of all I'd like to throw Mylo right out the window. Though we may have six players, one of them is Snow_Bunny's clone who apparently can vote. So with six players there are still only five votes out there. If there are two scum left, we can't even consider a no lynch as removing another town vote from the game is suicide. We lynch today for sure.

You meant cant vote, right? Anyway, your reasoning is sound. I'm not throwing it out the window though.

I think voting before everyone has claimed isn't a good idea during a mass claim as it gives scum a chance to end the game before we can get all the information we could have to make an informed decision.

Agree.

@popcorn claiming status

@Snow Bunny - since you full claimed you might as well be the first one in our popcorn claim now. Could you kindly name who you'd like to claim next?

It seems that she would want Timeater to claim next.

1. This is contrary to what you said earlier. Snow Bunny claimed out of the blue outside the 'popcorn' process, that hardly gives her the prerogative to say who she wants to claim. Weren't we supposed to vote first on who we want to start? This is bullshit and you know it. You said you wanted McGriddle to claim. You said you want to hear from the replacement first.

I really do not want to claim right now.

2. She never said that. And even if she did, read above.

will post later.

[Thor665]

@Snow Bunny - since you full claimed you might as well be the first one in our popcorn claim now. Could you kindly name who you'd like to claim next?

1. This is contrary to what you said earlier. Snow Bunny claimed out of the blue outside the 'popcorn' process, that hardly gives her the prerogative to say who she wants to claim. Weren't we supposed to vote first on who we want to start? This is bullSmurf and you know it. You said you wanted McGriddle to claim. You said you want to hear from the replacement first.

I really do not want to claim right now.

It is not contrary to what I said before. What I said before was generally you want to start with the scummiest seeming player (which at the time made McGriddle a solid choice) and I also said that because he had already soft claimed he was a good person to start the popcorn.

Snow_Bunny suddenly jumped in and full claimed (oddly again at no real request - what's with everyone and that in this game?). That puts her over McGriddle's soft claim since now she's out of the popcorn process anyway - at least with McGriddle we can still request powers and targets. I will also clarify that her jumping out of the popcorn like she did does not please me, and will also add that I do not feel the ability to decide who full claims next is a big advantage/power to give her.

If I'm reading the rest of your post correctly I will at least note you claiming first might help verify your townishness to the other players since scum would have to then be reactive. Other then that I'm not sure why this upsets you so much.

@SOG - she may indeed wish Timeater to claim next. I want her to say that as opposed to presuming anything. Why do you feel the need to try to advance that concept yourself instead of letting her clarify?

[semioldguy]

Yes, I meant that her clone can't vote.

Though she did not say that, her vote would imply it. I too would prefer to hear what rewq455 has to say and claim prior to either you or thor665. I had nominated Snow_Bunny to claim first and would stand by my choice, though she should have waited for the consensus, which would still seem to have been McGriddle even in light of the new replacement.

[semioldguy]

@thor665
It seemed like an obvious interpretation considering both the vote and accusations in her post.

[rewq455]

Sorry this post is a bit late.

Hero tells

Thor- Tried to end RVS early, something which would have helped villains

semioldguy – Focused for a while on Snow Bunnys self voting jokingly in the RVS, seemingly giving him a reason to attack a villain.

Snow_Bunny – Cloning seems like an ability that would aid the heroes, who most likely have less people then the villains.

Timeater – Wanted to lynch BOTH Monkey and Button to stop their win condition, where only lynching one would have been enough to stop their apparent win condition. This wastes one of the villains day lynches.

Major villain tells

Thor-Blocked Monkey's and Button's night actions

There is probably stuff that I left out, which I will post after a re-read another time.

[rewq455]

BTW, ATM I think that Snow_Bunny is most likely to be a hero, just because it would be to cheap for that power to be given to a villain.

[Timeater]

Timeater – Wanted to lynch BOTH Monkey and Button to stop their win condition, where only lynching one would have been enough to stop their apparent win condition. This wastes one of the villains day lynches.

Uhh no. I believe I made it clear that lynching one would do the trick of preventing a 3rd party win condition.

[Snow_Bunny]

For now, I'll want Timeater to claim. I'll post an answer to your posts later.

[Snow_Bunny]

THE BUNNY SITUATION

@Thor: I'd rather not think too much about the NKs. In my experience, both as town and as scum, it brings only wifom into the table. And, about the McGriddle thingy, it's useless to discuss that. He did something that broke a rule. 'nuff said.

Ok, time to claim, I guess: I'm Anonymous. My shiny power is to create clones, and use them as meatshields. Yep, I'm basically an unlynchable - unNkable rechargeable townie. I didn't want to say this before as I would use my ability to prevent a Nk, but it seem I wasn't good enough as a target... T_T. Now, seeing that it really doesn't matter much (unless of course, we hit scum. But it's a all-or-nothing situation. So... yeah.)

"Lets not analyze the nigthkills...derp"

Strange, there is no "Anonymous" in the Dr. Horrible wikia. All of the roles so far have been listed on that site. Can you explain that? Also, I do not see where or how your role fits into the show. Can you define exactly where you fit into the Dr. Horrible universe?

Also, the age-old notion of scum claiming unlynchable. AND unkillable. lol.

Now, some quick thoughts. My guess is that Timeater and Thor are scum. Timeater more scummy than Thor. Thor's suspicious is based mostly on a general gut I've gotten from him through the game, while Timeater reads scum. Wanting to lynch based on lurking at this point of the game is awfully scummy, and his reactions seem like desperate scum trying to get a win.

SOG is town, btw. So, that leaves us with Timeater, Thor and McGriddle. And I'm leaning Timeater as 95% scum right now.

Yes, TE and Thor are scum, the two people who have been playing this game the hardest. The two people who have been the most active. We are just two scum bantering back and forth for no other reason to look townie. Yep, you caught us. And let me stop you before you start "oh look its the active townie argument, that doesn't mean anything!' - commence eye-rolling.

Why do I read scum? Make your points and list your case.

Why does thor read scum? Make your points and list your case.

How do you know SOG is town? You did not claim to have investigative abilities, so how do you know for sure?

You were wise to lurk most of the game. You can't play scum for crap.

1) Look, I don't care what you find strange. That's my role name, and I can't do nothing about it. And, should I had been fakeclaiming, don't you think I would have picked at least something less strange?
2) Right, because scum is never active. I don't know in what kind of world you live, but in mine scum can be the most active players in the game. I invite you to go out of your little bubble and see the world.
3) Do I need a case to think you are scum? I don't think so. Cases are nice and all, but they are not a necessity. You see, in this point where we are only five of us left, and possibly two scum more, I see things as 50 - 50. Two of the other four players are scum. And, I'm finding SOG town. A SOG-scum wouldn't have made the comment on the fake extra vote given by my clone. Thus, that leaves only 3 of you as scum. I had an early-game feeling that Thor was scum, but you now read incredible scummy. You seem so desperate to get something, as if you know winning is just in your hands and you just need to annoy town to make a mistake. That's quite scummy to me, you know.
4) Yeah, yeah, I've lurked. Say all you want, scum. That won't change the fact that you won't be winning the game by lynching me.

[Snow_Bunny]

BTW, ATM I think that Snow_Bunny is most likely to be a hero, just because it would be to cheap for that power to be given to a villain.

So, you think that giving protection from all kills to scum is balanced as opposed to giving that to a town? Right...

Btw, I claimed because I had the impression you were waiting for either me or rewq to claim. Any roads, I don't care much the order of the claims. Right now I'm 95% sure Timeater is scum. Rewq and his last comment just moved him a bit above Thor in the scummy ranks.

[rewq455]

Timeater – Wanted to lynch BOTH Monkey and Button to stop their win condition, where only lynching one would have been enough to stop their apparent win condition. This wastes one of the villains day lynches.

Uhh no. I believe I made it clear that lynching one would do the trick of preventing a 3rd party win condition.

I took these notes as I read.

You said:

All I know is the town has a high probability of winning if we kill off the three I mentioned. (Monkey/RBT/Button)

I am going to be really sad if town loses to say, McGriddle, SOG, or Snow Bunny, because of their general lack of involvement. SOG is ok, but I wish I was seeing more meaty posts from him. I need meat. I absolutely hate lurker victories.

I will vote for RBT if anyone can convince me that she is the better choice, and that there is no possible chance of monkey/button endgaming everyone here and now. I would also need to be convinced that RBT is more scummy than monkey, which I do not currently believe.

[rewq455]

BTW, ATM I think that Snow_Bunny is most likely to be a hero, just because it would be to cheap for that power to be given to a villain.

So, you think that giving protection from all kills to scum is balanced as opposed to giving that to a town? Right...

Btw, I claimed because I had the impression you were waiting for either me or rewq to claim. Any roads, I don't care much the order of the claims. Right now I'm 95% sure Timeater is scum. Rewq and his last comment just moved him a bit above Thor in the scummy ranks.

If a hero has it, it essentially gives the heroes an extra person. If it were to be given to a villain, it would be giving more players to a team that already has a player advantage.

[rewq455]

Sorry about the triple post.

I take back what I said about Thor blocking the night actions being a villain tell. I relized that it could potentially cause the heroes as well as the villains to lose if the night action was completed.

[Thor665]

Thor- Tried to end RVS early, something which would have helped villains

I had hoped we'd moved beyond this. I have yet to have anyone present to me any logic as to why "ending the RVS" is a scumtell. Also, at what point is ending the RVS "early". Isn't the concept of RVS that it is subjective in length? If you agree that the length of RVS is subjective then;

1. How can I end it early?
2. How does me believing it is over become scummy?
3. At what point are we allowed to start treating posts seriously?

[French accent]I pooh-pooh on your logic here[/French accent]

BTW, ATM I think that Snow_Bunny is most likely to be a hero, just because it would be to cheap for that power to be given to a villain.

It would be equally cheap (probably more, actually) for that power to be given to part of a three person scumteam. Do you think she's part of a two person scum team or a three person? Also, if you think she's scum why do you believe she's telling the truth about what the clone does or does not do and using that as your logic to decide she's scum?

I have it on good authority that scum are often willing to lie during mass claim.

[Timeater]

@rewq - ugh... read on? I said we stand a high chance of winning if we lynched those three. Obviously as the discussion progressed my attitude changed a little. What about this?

Honestly, I would rather lynch Monkey over Button at the moment. If even being partially truthful, Button as the potential to be of use to the town.

Does everyone want me to claim? Am I entitled to claim? Are we following Bunny on this one? I dont think its best for the town. But if the answer is yes, I get to say "I told you you so" after I get nightkilled.

[Thor665]

Does everyone want me to claim? Am I entitled to claim? Are we following Bunny on this one? I dont think its best for the town. But if the answer is yes, I get to say "I told you you so" after I get nightkilled.

I'm not sure where you're going on this one. Was it your intention to ever claim? If by your claim you believe you will be NKed then it was going to happen whether you claimed last or first, wasn't it?

[rewq455]

@rewq - ugh... read on?

I have finished reading. There is a good chance that I was not focusing towards the end, so will skim over again tomorrow.

Thor, I read your questions and realized that the length of the RVS depends on who will start taking things seriously first. My bad, I am used to using it to see who will wagon early in the game.

[Timeater]

Was it your intention to ever claim?

Yes, since everyone seems to agree with a massclaim.

If by your claim you believe you will be NKed then it was going to happen whether you claimed last or first, wasn't it?

I wanted to claim last. If there were protective roles that claimed before me (as I was sincerely hoping), I wouldn't mind claiming with the 100% truth. However, if there were no protective roles that claimed before me, I probably would have lied a bit about my role so I could make it through until tomorrow. But oh well, this is how its going to be I guess. Hopefully someone can still protect me.

Name Claim: Tie-Die
Role Claim: Delayed Tracker/Watcher

Every night, I can "mark" someone with a color. These colors are yellow, blue and red. This costs me 1 hero point. Once a player is marked, whoever that player targets or is targetted by, the color spreads and they will gain the "mark". The marked player does not know he is marked. Also, apparently there are no adverse side-effects to being marked. Example:

I colormark Judy during the night with

red

. She targets Bob. Ansel targets her.

Bob now has a

red

colormark.
Ansel now has a

red

colormark.

Also, the colors can "mix" - Example:

I target Ansel with

red

. I target Bob with

blue

. They both end up targetting Judy - her color mark is now

purple

.

Lastly, for 3 points during the night, I can have people show me their color (I can use it on anyone). I haven't used this yet.

N1 Action: I targetted Snowbunny with yellow.
N2 Action: I tried to target theButtonMen with blue, but failed.
N3 Action: I targetted McGriddle with blue.

So yeah. There it is. Any questions?

[semioldguy]

As far as "Anonymous" not being a character, I don't know of a Justice Joe being a character either.

@Timeater
Can you use the ability on dead players to know if Snow_Bunny or McGriddle targeted any of them? Why did you target the players you chose on the nights you did over other targets? Who would you like to claim next?

@rewq455
If Snow_Bunny is town it sounds like a very strong ability for town to have. If she is scum her ability is likely not as she advertises. Scum who can't be lynched makes it almost impossible for a town to win. If you believe her ability is as she says it is, then I can't imagine why you think scum would get that ability.

Most of your reads come from a very early point in the game. While the early game shouldn't be ignored, it also should be taken into context with the later parts of the game. You say you are going to go back, but why did you initially place so much focus on the game's beginning while you did not appear to take hardly any note of the more recent events?

[Timeater]

@Timeater
Can you use the ability on dead players to know if Snow_Bunny or McGriddle targeted any of them? Why did you target the players you chose on the nights you did over other targets? Who would you like to claim next?

I dont know, I dont think so... my role pm doesn't mention dead players. But I'll ask iLord. I targetted those players in that order because I found them the most scummy at the time, basically. I thought Snow Bunny was pretty scummy early game with all that RVS stuff. I thought targetting Button would be good considering the win condition situation fiasco. McGriddle well, because there wasn't anyone I considered as-scummy left alive.

I want you (SOG) to claim next.

[Thor665]

So yeah. There it is. Any questions?

Egads - I think I'm just happy I didn't get your role.

I am also very interested in you answering SOG's question about why you targeted who you did. Specifically Night 2.

[Snow_Bunny]

BTW, ATM I think that Snow_Bunny is most likely to be a hero, just because it would be to cheap for that power to be given to a villain.

So, you think that giving protection from all kills to scum is balanced as opposed to giving that to a town? Right...

Btw, I claimed because I had the impression you were waiting for either me or rewq to claim. Any roads, I don't care much the order of the claims. Right now I'm 95% sure Timeater is scum. Rewq and his last comment just moved him a bit above Thor in the scummy ranks.

If a hero has it, it essentially gives the heroes an extra person. If it were to be given to a villain, it would be giving more players to a team that already has a player advantage.

Are you reading the game???? My clone is essentially a bodyguard! It has no votes, it has no voice (well, you know it's my clone), it only serves as a meatshield! MEATSHIELD! Do you think it's balanced to make a scum unlynchable, unNKable, for as long as it can create a new clone? Blatant scummy accusation is blatant.