DP12 JeepFest Mafia GAME OVER

[MeMe]

Mocking me (with no basis, I might add) doesn't make your posts any more sensible, they just make you look unwilling to actually have a dialogue that doesn't involve raising the emotions of the respondent -- a tool for someone in the weaker position.

--Your quick "he's scum," "wait -- he's totally believable" turnaround doesn't make any sense.
--You've still not claimed.
--tss can be both wrong AND scum. All I know for sure about him is that he's wrong about

me

.

Leo, I think your eagerness is extremely explicit. We are, in all likelihood, in lynch or lose. You want to lynch someone who claims to be able to prove his role...have directed the claimed lynch-saver not to attempt the save...and made the comment about the vigilante being able to "fix" it if Lee's town. Now that it's been called to your attention that CA can't bring the game back into balance since he's used his one-shot ability, do you stand by your directive? Or do you now think that inHim

should

perform a save?

[LoudmouthLee]

You said, sir, Leonidas.. that IS would be scum based on his role.

I'll repeat, very simply...

I CAN PROVE MY ROLE TONIGHT.

Leo! What are you doing?

vote: tss, based on the fact that if IS is the cop, I'm the next pope.

This is your gut instinct.. yet...

Here's my problem. Tss is claiming cop - a role no one else has claimed. And well -Internet Stranger IS the paragon of mafia hunters.

This is incorrect. We have had two cop types in the Junkie and the Rolename Finder. (Roland was Mackay, PB was Hey_Herb). Both of those are cop types.

Cop had be claimed 2 other times. I'm a roleblocker, and could prove my role at night. Let's vote no-lynch and let me prove it..

Especially since, Leo, we STILL don't know your role.

Okay.. I really need to make this point.

Leo's scum with TSS. There. I said it.

Leo made a fatal mistake, and he caught himself. Do not let him get away with it.

He put the NEXT to last vote on his scum buddy, TSS. They, when he noticed it, he knew that InHim would pull the save.. or lack thereof, and kill him. 1 scum down.

It is incredibly obvious to me that TSS, Leo and InHim

are the final few scum members.

I don't know. Maybe it's just me. Maybe it's just the fact that from day 1 on I was fighting with Axelrod (since it's always a great idea to mess with, vote for, and call for the head of my scum buddy day 1, day 2 and day 3, right? ***PLEASE NOTE SARCASM***

Wake up town. Do not be led to your graves by the scum.

[LoudmouthLee]

Hint: When was the last time TSS and Axel agreed on something? Oh yeah, It was day 1 with the "Vote count mishap".

TSS showed his true colors here... about the Vesuvan Bandwagon (in which I thought I was voting 8th) and him and Axelrod gently trying to tag team a bandwagon on me.

By the way.. Pg 3. Posts 50-74

[MeMe]

Now

there's

an interesting theory...and it would explain why neither tss nor Leo wants inHim to "prove" himself today -- as they would know that he can't if they're scum together.

But the fact that tss was the only one really expressing an interest in inHim performing a save (and advocating a vigging if he didn't) yesterday goes against it...unless he was fairly sure he'd be talked out of it...but how could he be sure of

that

?

It still remains that if inHim's town, he will be able to save a lynch -- which we will sorely need tomorrow if we make a mistake today. There's also the fact that if Lee's town, he will be able to block tonight -- which is something else we don't want to lynch away.

Therefore, it is my conclusion that...
--I'm the logical lynch for town who believes tss to be a sane cop.
--Leonidas is the logical lynch for those who don't believe that. There's a

case

for tss -- but if tss is scum, it's pretty clear that Leonidas has to be scum

with

him. But Leo can be scum

without

tss, making him the sounder choice.

Whichever of us is lynched, inHim should save. If inHim doesn't, we hope for a correct block tonight & he gets lynched tomorrow. I, of course, will be rooting for a Leo lynch rather than a MeMe lynch because, if Lee's right about inHim, we must rely on the block alone...which makes the game a gamble.

inHim -- yesterday you said

The PM doesn't limit me to one-time use, so I assume it's multiple. I send in my choice during the Day, but not through direct means. I can save Nanook, yes.

I hope that you're no longer relying on an assumption for information about your ability. Please doublecheck with DP if you haven't already and find out if you can do it two days in a row. That's vital information.

[Commodore Amazing]

Why can't tss be scum with Lee? That's my working theory.

I agree with Lee that rereading the thread knowing that Axelrod is scum makes tss look bad and LoudmouthLee look good.

Lee, HOW can you prove your role tonight? If it's by blocking MeMe, that's nice and all, but MeMe doesn't seem to think you're scum anyway. There seem to be at least a couple of people here who don't want to take MeMe's word on things.

Leonidas, I'm not going to excuse for being lazy at this point, so it's time to get your act together. Are we going to get a claim out of you?

[Leonidas]

CA - please do not allow MeMe to confuse you. It would really be a shame.

I am Werebear, townie. Sorry - I wish it could be more sensational, but it's not. If you're still suspicious about me, ask yourself who convinced you.

I am happy to see that you have a working theory, but by the way LML and MeMe were eager to lynch tss, I would encourage you to look into (LML+MeMe) instead of (LML+Tss). Again - tss as cop is actually quite possible, given IS's title of Paragon of Mafia Hunters. He's claiming a role no one else claimed (basic cop), which would very probably be in this setting.

And guess what - he's claiming MeMe and Lee guilty, too.

That's an awful lot for LML at least. So he's really the one to go first. On top of everything, Samadhi is the ideal accomplice of Antrax, and his ability claim just does not make sense (part-time role-blocker?).

As to InHim stopping a lynch - very good idea, as long as it's not a lynch on an innocent, right? If InHim is scum, that would mean an immediate mafia victory.

[inHimshallibe]

Before I throw out a plan and some analysis - how confident are you all on the number of scum remaining? I see 2 here, 3 there.

[Leonidas]

-- a tool for someone in the weaker position.

Absolutely true - probably linked to the fact that I am town, and that my side is not exactly in the stronger position. You seem much more at ease, MeMe.

[Leonidas]

(by contrast).

[MeMe]

Leonidas -- by weaker position I meant "without logic to stand on" -- but I think you know that. I have no trouble maintaining calm when I have nothing to hide.

Ninth townie. Um...yeah. Vote stands.

[MeMe]

inHim -- I think we must assume three. Better to be paranoid than sorry.

Leo -- had you forgotten that IS is known as the "Paragon of Mafia Hunters" when you voted him and said "if IS is the cop, I'm the next pope"?

[Nox]

I stick with my vote. I don't care whther inhim saves or not.

I do agree with Leonidas though on most accounts, except for the fact that I'm iffy about him claiming townie.

Unless, of course, Someone is scum, which is a possibility that I won't ignore at the moment.

TSS's claim is believeable, even though his results coincide with my feelings towards alot of people, He could still be paranoid or insane.

Right now, I'm reluctant to trust either Meme or LML.

[inHimshallibe]

Actually, my question doesn't mean much now, because there are 8 alive, not 7.

I'm still hung up on tss. I just can't believe that IS would receive valid investigations. This, and I find it funny that when roland thought he had reason to vote for MeMe, tss didn't think his investigation might be correct and followed with a vote of his own.

[MeMe]

Nox -- what the heck? You agree with

Leonidas

on "most accounts"? The guy who completely reversed himself with head-spinning quickness and has made more mistakes than I can count? The

only

thing that bothers you is that he claimed townie? And you "don't care" whether inHim saves Lee? No opinion whatsoever on the subject?

In a word:

Wow

.

FOS: Nox

-- she just leapt up there for me.

[Commodore Amazing]

After me, I believe Nox is the second closest thing we have to confirmed good guy. Nox claimed vanilla townie, and PeaceBringer's visions seemed to match that. It's really looking like MeMe is trying to garner up more votes here.

I really screwed up recently in another game where I thought a claimed cop could not be a cop because he didn't act the way I would have if I had been the cop... I don't want to repeat that mistake again with tss.

I'm going to have to think about this some more...

[MeMe]

She's not cleared.

Please read the Hey_Herb role PM. It doesn't have to do with

role potential

, it has to do with

night actions

. So, if Nox is scum but isn't the one who performed the kill when PB checked her, she'd simply look like she's not doing anything bad that particular night.

Now, if that was the only thing that made you think she's clear, you must admit that anyone who looks at Leo's last posts and decides that he makes sense isn't paying attention to what he's spewing.

[Commodore Amazing]

Huh, I just googled PeaceBringer’s song fragments for “Peanuts – very fine” and got the Beatles’ “Drive My Car.” Coincidence? Didn't really find anything interesting in Nox's song, though.

Cases Against – Round One; I will probably add to this. In order of scumminess, we have:

The silent speaker (IS, cop) – his play doesn’t seem to match how I would play a cop; the way he answers votes against him is along the lines of “there has to be a cop in this game” and “my role is more likely than Samadhi’s role” rather than explaining why he investigated the people he investigated. Slow to claim; could have been waiting to see if there was another cop.

LoudmouthLee (Samadhi, every other night roleblocker) – role sort of makes sense as scum with Antrax (according to Leonidas), there has already been one roleblocker in this game; claims to have gone after Axelrod the entire game when he actually went on Someone’s bandwagon when tss told everyone to vote for; FoSed Axelrod quite a bit after day one, but never voted for him until he was essentially unmasked by MeMe; has pointed at Leo, TSS, and inHim, abandoning his theory that there can’t be this many vanilla townies (this was before Leo claimed); claims to be able to confirm his role, although I don't see how this is possible

MeMe (mith, takes dead people’s abilities) – shouldn’t still be alive (WIFOM, I know), seems scummy every time I go back through the thread, could easily have a role where she takes the role of someone she has killed during the night (seems probable; mith would probably have a strong role); showed off that she had a power role when Fuldu blocked her night action; was attached to LoumouthLee early when Lee said he wouldn’t consider mith a scummy name; Axelrod told roland to keep quiet about mith’s identity; it would still be a mystery if I hadn’t called her out

Someone (MatthewV, townie) – rather lurky recently, but has posted in the vacation thread that he would be absent for a while; voted for himself a while back, though Axelrod was the first to unvote him for that display of selflessness

Leonidas (Werebear, townie) – dodgy about his claim; has lurked quite a bit; pretended to have Fuldu’s role for some time

inHimshallibe (jeep, lynch stopper) – wasn’t quick to confirm that he was jeep after PeaceBringer’s vision; called PeaceBringer’s role easy to fake; acted as if the trip could only sort of confirm PB.

Nox (Polarboy, townie) – seems somewhat indifferent to where the game is going; defended Axelrod a while back; has been all but confirmed by PeaceBringer. Least likely scum, in my opinion.

Commodore Amazing (Cadmium, one-shot vigilante) - I don’t know what the case is against me. People talk to me like I’m the swing vote.

I'm starting to think we should go no lynch. This is partly because I expect to get night-killed, and I don't trust myself to make this decision.

[Leonidas]

Leonidas (Werebear, townie) – dodgy about his claim; has lurked quite a bit; pretended to have Fuldu’s role for some time.

Err - was it Fuldu's role, or LML's?

Could we please lynch LML, CA?

Back in the early days, we lynched the SK together. Then you voted Axelrod based on my voting him, and he was mafia. I know that we are at a late stage of the game and so on, and I know you do not trust me. But I'm still going to ask: if it was a good idea to listen to me then, would you care to give it another try?

I'm starting to think we should go no lynch. This is partly because I expect to get night-killed, and I don't trust myself to make this decision.

Wow. And I'm supposed to be french and surrender easily.

[Leonidas]

--I'm the logical lynch for town who believes tss to be a sane cop.
--Leonidas is the logical lynch for those who don't believe that. There's a

case

for tss -- but if tss is scum, it's pretty clear that Leonidas has to be scum

with

him. But Leo can be scum

without

tss, making him the sounder choice.

Interesting that you should try so hard to avoid a LML lynch. Both he and you have a guilty result according to TSS. So for town who believes TSS to be sane, he's as good a choice as you are.

But no... MeMe believes she can prevail in a showdown with me and get me lynched, but does not trust LML to do the same. So she diverts the Town's attention towards herself.

[Leonidas]

Would there be a cop in this game? Yes. Could IS be it? Yes, and we have no one else claiming the role. Anyway - one single role-name finder is not enough for the town.

Quick look at TSS's results.

Night 1: MeMe - mafia.
Night 2: LoudmouthLee - mafia.
Night 3: NanookTheWolf. Blocked.
Night 4: inHim - not mafia.
Night 5: Nanook - not mafia.

(Leo note: Nanook is dead and proven town)

Night 6: Leonidas - not mafia.

I find it remarkable that MeMe and LML would talk their way out of the lynch at this juncture.

[MeMe]

Interesting that you should try so hard to avoid a LML lynch. Both he and you have a guilty result according to TSS. So for town who believes TSS to be sane, he's as good a choice as you are.

Interesting that

you

should try so hard

for

an LmL lynch if he's "as good a choice as" me. In case you missed it (and I don't think you could have as it's in the same post from which you drew the quote of mine), Lee claims to be a blocker. If he's town, that's helpful. If he's scum, tss (whom you

currently

believe) says he's lying about his ability anyway. So, what's the confusion? Oh...right. No confusion. Just the fact that, if Lee is a blocker, scum need him dead.

Would there be a cop in this game? Yes. Could IS be it? Yes, and we have no one else claiming the role. Anyway - one single role-name finder is not enough for the town.

Again. Wrong. And I'll repeat: we also had a pretty strong nightwatch role (Hey_Herb). Why do you keep pretending that, without tss, we barely had investigations?

[Dragon Phoenix]

No time for a vote count, but I trust we are not at a lycnh yet. I will be back on friday.

[Commodore Amazing]

Player name: peacebringer
Role name: HEY_HERB
Generic role: JUNKIE
Flavour: You are the co-host and determined to do all you can to stop this killing. People think you chose your screen name because your name is Herb. No. You are actually called Charlie but your love of "the herb" made you opt for H_H. Now it is time to take it one step further. Every night if you want to, you can pick a name, take a shit load of LSD, and get a strange vision of the player you chose, which will be related to his/her actions that night. The effects of the vision (and the drugs) leave you whacked out all day, so you're only allowed to make one post. If you choose to not use your ability at night, you can post freely.
Night actions: every night if you want you can send me an IM with the name of one player you want to get a vision of. Take care of your restriction if you do so, as I will modkill you straight away the first time you go wrong.

Please read the Hey_Herb role PM. It doesn't have to do with

role potential

, it has to do with

night actions

. So, if Nox is scum but isn't the one who performed the kill when PB checked her, she'd simply look like she's not doing anything bad that particular night.

The role PM also doesn't say anything about giving clues about the role name of the person investigated, but there are clearly links between jeep and Polarboy and the trips that PeaceBringer saw. You're making PeaceBringer's role sound weaker than it is to discredit Nox...

we also had a pretty strong nightwatch role (Hey_Herb)

... but then you go and say that it was a strong role to discredit the silent speaker.

I don't really find Leo all that scummy. I think he makes a good point that Axelrod may have clued you in on the whole COP/DOC thing. It was almost too perfect.

[LoudmouthLee]

Would there be a cop in this game? Yes. Could IS be it? Yes, and we have no one else claiming the role. Anyway - one single role-name finder is not enough for the town.

Quick look at TSS's results.

Night 1: MeMe - mafia.
Night 2: LoudmouthLee - mafia.
Night 3: NanookTheWolf. Blocked.
Night 4: inHim - not mafia.
Night 5: Nanook - not mafia.

(Leo note: Nanook is dead and proven town)

Night 6: Leonidas - not mafia.

I find it remarkable that MeMe and LML would talk their way out of the lynch at this juncture.

If we have 3 left, and we're at a lynch or lose situation, TSS's plan is perfect. And scary.

Notice, 6 "nights" and 5 "results" and amazingly *4* of them still alive, with NONE of them night killed.

That seems like an ODD cop record. (HINT: When a cop claims he's investigated people who are alive, he's playing on the sentementality of the person who's alive).

Leonidas says that we're trying to talk our way out of a lynch... For a guy who's normally a GREAT player, he's failing to see something obvious.

What if (and they are) the results are made up? HELLO!

So, let's make this easy. I'm going to

Unvote: TSS and Vote: No Lynch

Give me a chance to prove my role.

[MeMe]

The role PM also doesn't say anything about giving clues about the role name of the person investigated, but there are clearly links between jeep and Polarboy and the trips that PeaceBringer saw. You're making PeaceBringer's role sound weaker than it is to discredit Nox...

Absolutely not, CA. I'm explaining the role exactly how DP explained it: the role PM said that Hey_Herb will get visions "related to his/her actions that night." You said that Nox was cleared by the investigation -- I pointed out that isn't so. If anything, you're making it sound like the investigation meant more than it did.

... but then you go and say that it was a strong role to discredit the silent speaker.

Actually, my exact words were, "a pretty strong nightwatch role" -- which is true. See, regularly nightwatch roles just get to see whether or not someone goes out. This one seems written to reveal what was

done

-- which makes it a

strong

nightwatch role. See?

CA -

please

don't make the mistake of reading all my posts through a veil of scumminess. I'm stating facts as I see them -- and Leo's mistakes and mind changes are inexcusably scummy.

I don't really find Leo all that scummy. I think he makes a good point that Axelrod may have clued you in on the whole COP/DOC thing. It was almost too perfect.

Sure -- this makes perfect sense. If I were scum, I probably would've been told about it. But it was really difficult to miss once the posts were pulled in order -- and I shouldn't be punished for being the one to spot it first.