Mini 985:Madness at Night: Game over

[Sando]

Where? He did not say, "I did not vote hiphop because he is being obnoxious." Nor did he make any statement that resembles that statement at all. Then I think...Wait a minute your the one that stated that. Not him. So llama is supposed to believe some statement that

you

pulled out of thin air? Now perhaps you can answer my questions.

Crypto asked:

AlmasterGM, what's the connection between hiphop being obnoxious and hiphop being scummy?

Almaster responded

There's no connection at all. He's just being annoying.

Yeah I'm pretty sure Almaster did say something to that effect.

Are you sure? why? People hop on a bw because they believe the guy is scummy, which leads to the whole obnoxious thing(<--the only thing that Almaster addressed about me). But as Almaster said obnoxious does not equal scummy. So I ask you again why did Almaster vote for me?

People BW very early for reaction and to end RVS, it's a very common tactic.

How can I address why he voted for me, if he doesn't say why I am scummy?

Where did he ask you to address his points? When I want someone to address my points, I'll make those points. If I don't feel you need to address something, I won't force the issue, and might not even post the points.

So I ask you again, why am I scummy?

I've merely said that I'm suspicious of you for your current play. I haven't voted you, I haven't said you're scum, I haven't FOS'd you.

[AlmasterGM]

Reason for vote. Not a random vote at that. Therefore I am scummy.

Logic 101. Just because there is a reason doesn't mean it implies you are scummy unless I make that connection. An RVS vote saying, "Vote hiphop because I hate spiderman" has a reason. A textbook policy vote against anti-town players has a reason. Neither of these indicate scum. My vote was just saying "I'm voting for you because you are being annoying and I have nowhere else I'd rather have my vote right now.

Your attempt to turn this molehill into a mountain is noted.

Votes me because I am being obnoxious, but that does not make me scummy. Interesting.

What's interesting about it? Or were you hoping someone else would jump in and fill this in for you so you didn't have to tack your name on the failargument that is going to come from this.

vote: almaster

More OMGUS, please.

Are you normally this jumpy? You are literally going into panic mode because I mentioned your name a few times.

I do not have a read on anyone yet. I'll make a vote once I find a scummy read.

Try harder.

vote: alamasterGM I was going to random vote him anyway, but after reading it isn't so random anymore.

Hi. Why isn't it random?

He's a popular wagon for a reason.

Nice appeal to popularity.

Sando, quit misrepresenting what happened. I thought alamaster was scummy for jumping on a wagon for a stated, shitty, reason. I voted for him and made it (I thought) pretty damn obvious that I was doing it for the reasons already stated (that his given reason was a bunch of orca crap). There's a difference between blatantly saying 'I am voting this person for a stupid reason' and just not retyping reasons already given. I would vote you, but that would be full of omgus and fail and I don't like to do that, so I'll just FoS:Sando and leave it at that.

Combined with the previous two posts, I don't like this post from llama. It seems like he is making up his reason for voting me ex-post-facto and just wanted to be on the early wagon early. Also, the fact that he FOS's Sando just for questioning the situation shows that he's playing extremely defensively and ovveracting to the possibility that he could be caught in this lie.

[AlmasterGM]

Forgot,

Unvote. Vote: Llama

.

[hiphop]

Where? He did not say, "I did not vote hiphop because he is being obnoxious." Nor did he make any statement that resembles that statement at all. Then I think...Wait a minute your the one that stated that. Not him. So llama is supposed to believe some statement that

you

pulled out of thin air? Now perhaps you can answer my questions.

Crypto asked:

AlmasterGM, what's the connection between hiphop being obnoxious and hiphop being scummy?

Almaster responded

There's no connection at all. He's just being annoying.

Yeah I'm pretty sure Almaster did say something to that effect.

What?

My vote was just saying "I'm voting for you because you are being annoying and I have nowhere else I'd rather have my vote right now.

Sando your case fails. I was right. He

was

voting me because I was being obnoxious.
Also in post 64

Since I missed it, and you seem to see it, why did Almaster vote for me? And don't go making up something, give me a quote.

Because he wanted to start a BW, that seems fairly obvious...

Is wrong too. Shows how much you can read minds.

How can I address why he voted for me, if he doesn't say why I am scummy?

Where did he ask you to address his points?

Sando, it is better if you do not cut out the part that has the answer to in it. Here I will quote it again.

Do I find you scummy? I said in my post why I'm suspicious of your game so far:

Hiphop was looking very good till the vote on almaster. The whole 'I'm going to act like an idiot to catch opportunistic scum' was a bit labored, and

I think hiphop isn't addressing why almaster actually voted for him.

I bolded the answer to you question. Did I, or did I not address why Almaster voted for me? In yor opinion I did not. Why? What part did I not address?

Let's put the question in a different form, why are you suspicious of me?

Reason for vote. Not a random vote at that. Therefore I am scummy.

Logic 101. Just because there is a reason doesn't mean it implies you are scummy unless I make that connection. An RVS vote saying, "Vote hiphop because I hate spiderman" has a reason. A textbook policy vote against anti-town players has a reason. Neither of these indicate scum. My vote was just saying "I'm voting for you because you are being annoying and I have nowhere else I'd rather have my vote right now.

Your attempt to turn this molehill into a mountain is noted.

So are you saying you were bwing me with an rvs vote? Never seen that before.

A molehill is a mountain to an ant. It is just a matter of perspective.

And no, I gave a reason for my vote, Sando questioned my vote trying to say my reasons were false, because he could mind read.

Votes me because I am being obnoxious, but that does not make me scummy. Interesting.

What's interesting about it? Or were you hoping someone else would jump in and fill this in for you so you didn't have to tack your name on the failargument that is going to come from this.

ooh Interesting. Should I make the same argument Deer did?

Interesting-arrousing or holding the attention of. It is interesting to note that Almaster bw for a non-scummy reason. More likely not having any options as scum to find any scummy reasons as to why anyone else is suspicious at all.

vote: almaster

More OMGUS, please.

Are you normally this jumpy? You are literally going into panic mode because I mentioned your name a few times.

Do not use terms that you do not know the meaning of. Here I will provide you with the link again. omgus Please provide any evidence where I voted for you strictly because you voted for me. I dare you. I gave a reason for my vote, and it was not because you voted me.

And in answer to your questions- you have played with me as scum, and modded my town game, I am sure you already know that answer. Me providing my own meta, makes it null.

How am I going into panic mode? If you are referring to the argument with Sando, that argument only exists because he can't mind read.

[Sando]

Fine, if Almaster voted you purely for being obnoxious, then I guess I was wrong.

I've stated why I'm suspicious of you, then I quoted what I said, then you quoted it. Just because 1 part of it was incorrect doesn't invalidate my suspicions. Stop pretending that I haven't made myself clear.

I think your 'I'm going to act like a jackass to get scum to jump on an easy target' was pretty contrived. I don't think a townie would legitimately think they'd catch scum with that.

Also, I haven't made a 'case' against you, I haven't voted you, I haven't FOSd you, all I said was that you were looking good (townie) until your almaster vote. In my original post I don't think I even said I found you suspicious, just not obv town. You're taking this completely out of context and making something from nothing.

[podium123456]

Logic 101. Just because there is a reason doesn't mean it implies you are scummy unless I make that connection. An RVS vote saying, "Vote hiphop because I hate spiderman" has a reason. A textbook policy vote against anti-town players has a reason. Neither of these indicate scum. My vote was just saying "I'm voting for you because you are being annoying and I have nowhere else I'd rather have my vote right now.

Your attempt to turn this molehill into a mountain is noted.

IMO, most of the reason this has turned into a mountain is because you included 'wagon tiem' with your vote on hiphop. If you had said 'vote: hiphop because he is being annoying', and left it at that, it would look like a normal RVS vote.

Most people dont say 'its time for a wagon' when placing a random vote... which makes me wonder if you initially meant it as a random vote, or are trying to twist it into one one now that it blew up.


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Doing my best to keep up with the sando/llama/hiphop/almaster discussion.

Upon first read through of it all, i like sandro's arguments the least. Feels like he's trying to use the confusing nature of almasters actions to back llama into a corner.

I dont like SSBF's vote on llama... both for supporting sandros case, and for what i feel are weak reasons of his own.

Right now, i dont like the case against llama, nor the people voting for him.

[Sando]

I dont like SSBF's vote on llama... both for supporting sandros case, and for what i feel are weak reasons of his own.

I quite like his point regarding the OMGUS, llama is basically saying 'I'd vote Sando but I'm scarred I'll look scummy'. Townies tend to, or should tend to, worry less about looking scummy and more about finding scum. Trying to turn that back on me by saying i'd react by getting 'pissy' was also pretty left-field.

OMGUS is a wildly over-used term btw, and it's unlikely it will come out of my mouth as an accusation.

BTW, I mean his point about llama not voting me due to being accused on OMGUS, not that his vote was OMGUS.

[podium123456]

OMGUS is a wildly over-used term btw, and it's unlikely it will come out of my mouth as an accusation.

I agree. Although i dont mind saying someone is omgus'ing... its the part of equating omgus'ing to being scum that i dont like. kinda feel the same way about lurking.

I'll add that i do think that llama played a little poorly in spots... both with being afraid of saying what he wants because of what others will say, and for the trying to turn it back around on you thing... i just read those as legit poor plays, instead of indicative of scum, right now.

[Sando]

Pretty sure you're still voting him from RVS

[podium123456]

Pretty sure you're still voting him from RVS

hahahahahah i forgot!

awesome catch!!

UNVOTE

[nopointinactingup]

Alright guys. I got away from my classes at last.

@

All

, do you generally prefer to lead or follow?

It really depends on the situation.

I see nopointinactingup is already lurking, and that must be rectified.

vote nopointinactingup

You're not doing a bad job yourself Charter

Hmm the way I see it, Hiphop and Podium are likely town, one of Sando/Llama is highly likely scum and the other people feels neutral. However, that's mostly my gut feelings.

[AlmasterGM]

ooh Interesting. Should I make the same argument Deer did?

Seacore's "interesting" attack was easily my favorite argument from 955, and yes, that's where I got the idea (but I didn't want to just copy and paste it). And considering Deer was scum, I don't know if that's the best idea.

Interesting-arrousing or holding the attention of. It is interesting to note that Almaster bw for a non-scummy reason. More likely not having any options as scum to find any scummy reasons as to why anyone else is suspicious at all.

Nonresponsive. I asked you why it was interesting and you still haven't said why, you've just stated what interesting means. You're using "interesting" as a mask to avoid posting an argument and waiting for someone else to do it.

Do not use terms that you do not know the meaning of. Here I will provide you with the link again. omgus Please provide any evidence where I voted for you strictly because you voted for me. I dare you. I gave a reason for my vote, and it was not because you voted me.

Your reasons are awful. If you wipe away the bullshit, which is basically all of your early posts, it's obv-OMGUS.

How am I going into panic mode? If you are referring to the argument with Sando, that argument only exists because he can't mind read.

I am referring to that and the way you responded to me. My vote on you was pretty clearly not some pointed attack - it was on page 2 and because you were annoying. You responded with this massive onslaught and a counter-vote. You did the same thing with Sando. You are playing extremely defensively (to the point of where you are using defense as offense).

Right now, i dont like the case against llama, nor the people voting for him.

Why not?

Alright guys. I got away from my classes at last.

@

All

, do you generally prefer to lead or follow?

It really depends on the situation.

I see nopointinactingup is already lurking, and that must be rectified.

vote nopointinactingup

You're not doing a bad job yourself Charter

Hmm the way I see it, Hiphop and Podium are likely town, one of Sando/Llama is highly likely scum and the other people feels neutral. However, that's mostly my gut feelings.

If that's a catchup post...try again.

[Hayker]

Vote count

Llamaeatataco 3-(AlmasterGM, Sando, Super Smash Bros. Fan)

nopointinactingup 1-(charter)

Super Smash Bros. Fan 3-(crypto, SpyreX, Wickedestjr)

AlmasterGM 2-(hiphop. llamaeatataco)

Not Voting 2-(nopointinactingup, podum123456)

With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch

[llamaeatataco]

random off topic question: how do you do those awesome quotes? There's probably a wiki page, but I can't find it.


Alamanatee:

If that's a catchup post...try again.

^ wholehearted agreement.

No, this is basically what I see:

You voted AlmasterGM since it wasn't random, which sounds like bandwagoning. That made you look hypocritical.

*You delayed explaining why you found AlmasterGM scummy until Sando voted for you.

*ISO: 3, you basically made an OMGUS reply to Sando, trying to cover that up by saying "It would be full-blown OMGUS if I voted for him!".

*: Things that I've just brought up.

1. Have you heard of the saying 'better to be silent and thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt'? That's somewhat applicable but not really. Basically, alamaster said that he was voting hiphop for a silly reason. At the moment I didn't know that it was supposed to be an RVS vote, so I figured he was just giving a silly reason. I actually didn't write as much as I intended to in my post, so I didn't give a reason. With a little jump of logic you could assume that I meant I was voting him for what other people disliked him for: his vote on hiphop.

2. Misrep. I didn't realize it was a problem until he said something, and I corrected it in my very next post. He said something about it and voted all in the same post, all before I had a chance to post again. Now, if I were going to interpret the situation in my favor, here's how I'd do it:
"Llama forgot to include his reason in his post, and then corrected it immediately after in his very next post. What a helpful guy!"
Do you see the difference?

3. How was it OMGUS? I explained exactly why I found his attack scummy (he misrepresented the situation, ignored my posts that explained why I voted him and tried to hold up outdated, irrelevant points as dah troof.) The reason that I said voting him would be omgus and full of fail is because that's what would have happened if I had voted him. Sure it wasn't really OMGUS, but he could have called it that and made a big deal and shit and then people wouldn't have listened to me. They'd just see the vote and assume that I was just doing it because he voted me. The cool thing is, I don't have to vote him for him to be lynched. (I don't even want a lynch this early anyway, he hasn't incriminated himself enough yet.) If I make good points, the rest of you can vote and lynch him. Basically, I wanted to get my point across without having to work through the stigma attached to voting the person who's voting you.

oh yeah, and

unvote

in case I forget.

llama wrote:

He's a popular wagon for a reason.

Nice appeal to popularity.

How is that an appeal to popularity? Learn your fallacies before you accuse other people. I was saying that you were a popular wagon for a reason to get across the point that you did something other people didn't like.

Sando, quit misrepresenting what happened. I thought alamaster was scummy for jumping on a wagon for a stated, shitty, reason. I voted for him and made it (I thought) pretty damn obvious that I was doing it for the reasons already stated (that his given reason was a bunch of orca crap). There's a difference between blatantly saying 'I am voting this person for a stupid reason' and just not retyping reasons already given. I would vote you, but that would be full of omgus and fail and I don't like to do that, so I'll just FoS:Sando and leave it at that.

Combined with the previous two posts, I don't like this post from llama. It seems like he is making up his reason for voting me ex-post-facto and just wanted to be on the early wagon early. Also, the fact that he FOS's Sando just for questioning the situation shows that he's playing extremely defensively and ovveracting to the possibility that he could be caught in this lie.

I'm sorry, what? Pointing out that someones 'case' is completely ridiculous is scummy now? Is it just because it was on me? If he had put that case up on someone else, I would have- wait, deja vu. Anyway, alamanatee, you've heard this speech before, and the rest of you already know what I was going to say anyway. Oh yeah, and why in hell would I intentionally be hypocritical and retarded, jumping on a wagon and then

making up a reason that was already there

on day 1, just barely out of the rvs? If you can explain how that makes any logical sense as scum, I'll give you a cookie. Seriously, you should know by now that I do stupid shit.


oh yeah, and

vote: Sando

because I can and it's free. Oh, and because he's still trying to continue with his case.

[crypto]

If that's a catchup post...try again.

I agree.

More later.

[Wickedestjr]

Why Sando?

Post 44:

Sup, this game started just as I went to bed, then work, then bludging around at home, so post time!

I'm aussie btw, so GMT +10. This would make about a dozen games for me.

Hiphop was looking very good till the vote on almaster. The whole 'I'm going to act like an idiot to catch opportunistic scum' was a bit labored, and I think hiphop isn't addressing why almaster actually voted for him.

Podium is most town by far so far.

Questions:

Wicked, jumping over RVS questions pings my radar, they're a fairly common tool used, mainly to move the RVS along, why do you appear to dislike them?

Hiphop/Crypto, why, simply because almasta decided to call hiphop obnoxious, does that automatically mean that's what the vote is for?

Hiphop, why does there being no connection between obnoxious and scummy mean you're not scummy?

It is mostly just a strange gut feeling, but I also found the above post to be a bit strange. First he says that he thinks hiphop was looking "very good" until his vote or almasterg. I don't see what exactly hiphop could've done to make him look very good this early in the game. I thought he looked townish for attracting so much attention to himself, but Sando even says that he feels hiphop's play was a bit labored, so I don't think that's the reason for his town read.

Then there's an unusually strong town read on podium.

His third question also seems a bit odd to me. Looks like he is either trying to defend almasterg too much or is using a weak argument against hiphop.

What is it about SSBF that gives you a bad feeling?

His play seems different from Mini 955. I don't really know why. His play just seems off. I also didn't think his questions were actually helpful for getting us out of the RVS.


@podium - Why do you only FoS crypto? At the time of your FoS your vote was from the RVS.


Post 64 Sando is defending almasterg even more. Now it is beginning to get bad. First he questions hiphop for thinking that almasterg found him obnoxious but not suspicious, then he questions crypto for thinking almasterg found hiphop suspicious. That looks very contradictory. Vote: Sando

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP:

Unvote. Vote: Sando

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

(I don't even want a lynch this early anyway, he hasn't incriminated himself enough yet.)

Your vote is currently on Sando. If you're putting a vote on a person, that means you are supporting a lynch on that particular person eventually. Now granted, it doesn't mean you're gung-ho on the lynch now as you pointed out, but eventually, if you still have the vote on that person, you'll want him dead.

His play seems different from Mini 955. I don't really know why. His play just seems off.

This is correct. The reason why it's different is because I absolutely hated my play in that game, going as far to call it my 2nd worst game of Mafia I've ever played (1st was Smash Bros. Mafia in Smash World Forums). I tend to play slightly better then in that game.

[crypto]

Also, i dont like how you have asked nearly everyone to expand on why they think someone is town or scum... yet you place a vote on SSBF and say absolutely nothing as to why you did.

You're implying hypocrisy. What about it is hypocritical?

[crypto]

Spyre, you're scum this game aren't you? It's getting to be that time of year again.

[podium123456]

Also, i dont like how you have asked nearly everyone to expand on why they think someone is town or scum... yet you place a vote on SSBF and say absolutely nothing as to why you did.

You're implying hypocrisy. What about it is hypocritical?

Ummm... isn't the answer to your question in the portion you quoted from me?

???

[crypto]

No. What about not giving a reason while asking for certain reasons is hypocritical?

[podium123456]

No. What about not giving a reason while asking for certain reasons is hypocritical?

Wow. I think this is the start to a really dumb semantics argument, that would clutter the thread up. Here... i wasn't implying hypocrisy.

I have an idea... why dont you tell us your reason for voting SSBF, instead of continuing to avoid the question.

[crypto]

I love semantics. People say they're a waste of time but I think I've caught scum with them or seen scum get caught with them more often than not.

And no, for now I prefer watching SSBF continue to awkwardly avoid acknowledging my vote.

[crypto]

It's not a very interesting reason anyway.