Mini 985:Madness at Night: Game over

[AlmasterGM]

/confirmatory

[AlmasterGM]

1. EST, but I sometimes post at odd hours (like in the early morning and late at night).
2. A year or so on here and a little irrelevant experience before that.
3. Referral.
4. I prefer the RAS (Random Argument Stage)
5. I play mafia for fun. If you stop being fun and start being annoying, I'll hate you and this game. Don't do it.

[AlmasterGM]

so you are not going to tell us what time zone you are in.

are you trying to be obnoxious on purpose?

[AlmasterGM]

Why does podium need pressure, he's already proven he's pro by completely pwning you both.

@hiphop - it took you longer to refuse to give your time zone than to just say what it was. whenever you spend more time and effort refusing to do something than it would take to just do it, that fits my definition of being obnoxious on purpose.

Vote: hiphop

. wagon teim.

also, whats up crypto: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgCM46CSwd8

[AlmasterGM]

So your policy is to vote for people who are good?

[AlmasterGM]

There's no connection at all. He's just being annoying.

[AlmasterGM]

Reason for vote. Not a random vote at that. Therefore I am scummy.

Logic 101. Just because there is a reason doesn't mean it implies you are scummy unless I make that connection. An RVS vote saying, "Vote hiphop because I hate spiderman" has a reason. A textbook policy vote against anti-town players has a reason. Neither of these indicate scum. My vote was just saying "I'm voting for you because you are being annoying and I have nowhere else I'd rather have my vote right now.

Your attempt to turn this molehill into a mountain is noted.

Votes me because I am being obnoxious, but that does not make me scummy. Interesting.

What's interesting about it? Or were you hoping someone else would jump in and fill this in for you so you didn't have to tack your name on the failargument that is going to come from this.

vote: almaster

More OMGUS, please.

Are you normally this jumpy? You are literally going into panic mode because I mentioned your name a few times.

I do not have a read on anyone yet. I'll make a vote once I find a scummy read.

Try harder.

vote: alamasterGM I was going to random vote him anyway, but after reading it isn't so random anymore.

Hi. Why isn't it random?

He's a popular wagon for a reason.

Nice appeal to popularity.

Sando, quit misrepresenting what happened. I thought alamaster was scummy for jumping on a wagon for a stated, shitty, reason. I voted for him and made it (I thought) pretty damn obvious that I was doing it for the reasons already stated (that his given reason was a bunch of orca crap). There's a difference between blatantly saying 'I am voting this person for a stupid reason' and just not retyping reasons already given. I would vote you, but that would be full of omgus and fail and I don't like to do that, so I'll just FoS:Sando and leave it at that.

Combined with the previous two posts, I don't like this post from llama. It seems like he is making up his reason for voting me ex-post-facto and just wanted to be on the early wagon early. Also, the fact that he FOS's Sando just for questioning the situation shows that he's playing extremely defensively and ovveracting to the possibility that he could be caught in this lie.

[AlmasterGM]

Forgot,

Unvote. Vote: Llama

.

[AlmasterGM]

ooh Interesting. Should I make the same argument Deer did?

Seacore's "interesting" attack was easily my favorite argument from 955, and yes, that's where I got the idea (but I didn't want to just copy and paste it). And considering Deer was scum, I don't know if that's the best idea.

Interesting-arrousing or holding the attention of. It is interesting to note that Almaster bw for a non-scummy reason. More likely not having any options as scum to find any scummy reasons as to why anyone else is suspicious at all.

Nonresponsive. I asked you why it was interesting and you still haven't said why, you've just stated what interesting means. You're using "interesting" as a mask to avoid posting an argument and waiting for someone else to do it.

Do not use terms that you do not know the meaning of. Here I will provide you with the link again. omgus Please provide any evidence where I voted for you strictly because you voted for me. I dare you. I gave a reason for my vote, and it was not because you voted me.

Your reasons are awful. If you wipe away the bullshit, which is basically all of your early posts, it's obv-OMGUS.

How am I going into panic mode? If you are referring to the argument with Sando, that argument only exists because he can't mind read.

I am referring to that and the way you responded to me. My vote on you was pretty clearly not some pointed attack - it was on page 2 and because you were annoying. You responded with this massive onslaught and a counter-vote. You did the same thing with Sando. You are playing extremely defensively (to the point of where you are using defense as offense).

Right now, i dont like the case against llama, nor the people voting for him.

Why not?

Alright guys. I got away from my classes at last.

@

All

, do you generally prefer to lead or follow?

It really depends on the situation.

I see nopointinactingup is already lurking, and that must be rectified.

vote nopointinactingup

You're not doing a bad job yourself Charter

Hmm the way I see it, Hiphop and Podium are likely town, one of Sando/Llama is highly likely scum and the other people feels neutral. However, that's mostly my gut feelings.

If that's a catchup post...try again.

[AlmasterGM]

Ugh, catch up tomorrow.

[AlmasterGM]

I don't need a prod because Llama is still scum.

How is that an appeal to popularity? Learn your fallacies before you accuse other people. I was saying that you were a popular wagon for a reason to get across the point that you did something other people didn't like.

So you're just asking people to excuse your behavior by saying either "you're voting that way too." Or saying, "look at all these other people, they can't all be stupid." Or, "if you're going to call someone out, do it on one of those other people." There is no argumentative value to your statement.

I'm sorry, what? Pointing out that someones 'case' is completely ridiculous is scummy now? Is it just because it was on me? If he had put that case up on someone else, I would have- wait, deja vu. Anyway, alamanatee, you've heard this speech before, and the rest of you already know what I was going to say anyway. Oh yeah, and why in hell would I intentionally be hypocritical and retarded, jumping on a wagon and then making up a reason that was already there on day 1, just barely out of the rvs? If you can explain how that makes any logical sense as scum, I'll give you a cookie. Seriously, you should know by now that I do stupid shit.

Yes I've heard it before and I don't like it more now than I did then. The point of a scumtell is that it's unintentional. If people knew what they were doing all the time, we wouldn't catch any scum ever unless they were complete idiots. I'm sure you didn't MEAN to be hypocritical and retarded and jump on the wagon and then make up the reason afterwards, just barely out of the rvs, but sometimes you get caught up in a lie and end up digging a bigger hole than you started with. That's what I think happened with you.

GTFO troll. Seriously though... did you even read my posts or did you just kind of skim? I'll explain it for you: Alamanatee's vote was RVS. I don't really give a damn if people have stupid reasons in the rvs. Can you understand it now? I switched to Sando because he's fricken' scummy.

Uh, how is this even remotely responsive? Your vote on me was not RVS. Nooo way. Do not even try and play that card now.

SpyreX is uncharacteristically passive, nice, and quiet, so I suppose there's a chance he's scum, but that's pretty speculative for now. I don't get the SSBF case at all.

nopointinactingup's miller claim is suspicious as fuck - especially because it's a death-miller claim coming at the first sign of danger and not right off the bat (WHICH IS WHAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED), but for some strange reason I could see it being legit in this game. I rarely get gut feelings, and I act on them even more infrequently, but I think I'm right about this one.

The case on Sando I can see, but llama just seems way scummier.

V/LA until Monday.

[AlmasterGM]

@alamanatee: cool story bro. So are you saying I'm scummy for any real reason, or are you just doing it because all of the cool kids are?

I was one of the first people to suspect you (maybe even THE first), and I'm the first person on your wagon, so STFU n00b.

Nice response btw...oh wait, there wasn't one.

[AlmasterGM]

I'm a Town Cop. In addition to being able to vote and voice my opinion, every Night, I have the ability to investigate a person of my choice.

I'm going to respond to anything that I'm missing. I also promise a full analysis of everyone before the Day ends.

WTF are you doing? Are you even at L-1? Are you even going to be lynched? This claim reeks of fake.

[AlmasterGM]

No. I was saying 'You're doing scummy things.' Other people were voting you because you were doing things perceived as scummy at the time. It's not, 'look at all these other people, they can't all be stupid,' It's 'You're obviously doing something wrong because there are people voting for you." Subtle difference, but important. If I wanted to be super dogged and tunnelvision-y, I could say that you were scummy for attacking me because you thought I was the weakest link, but I don't really believe that myself. Also, You're posts are longer than in Halo Mafia IIRC. Not important but I just thought of it.

You are just claiming this distinction. There's no reason it's true. I think your logic gave much more of the "stupid" air than "popularity" one. And, even if it is the latter, then it's still a claim to popular opinion, which is what I said before and you denied.

Also, what does Halo Mafia have to do with anything?

[AlmasterGM]

@hiphop - I don't even care what the case was before, SSBF is probscum now. I still think llama is winwagon for today, though - SSBF can live and at least be either 1) NK bait or 2) get us a result that we might be able to use later.

Re Role PM: doesn't seem to be much correlation, but given that he learned last game that we don't usually lynch cop claims, I could easily see the temptation to make the claim.

COP
Welcome to Mini 955, XXX! You are a Cop. Each night, you may PM me the name of a player you wish to investigate. I will to reveal to you by return PM whether that player is aligned with the town or not.
You are aligned with the town and win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

[AlmasterGM]

I don't get the gunsmith counter claim. First, are you a daytime gunsmith? Second, don't both mafia and cops have a gun ... so if he has a gun he could be telling the truth, and if he doesn't he's lying but not mafia?

[AlmasterGM]

Do not buy gunsmith + cop = unlikely. Gunsmith + cop = relatively logical; both have guns, so its a watered down investigative role.

I still want to lynch llama. We can give SSBF one chance to deliver, lynch him, and then see what happens. Nothing is lost by letting him live a single more day.

[AlmasterGM]

What do you have to say about the gunsmith claim?

[AlmasterGM]

For some reason, I have a feeling that we are playing in an extremely odd setup and that what normally applies probably doesn't apply.

[AlmasterGM]

[quote="spyrex"I'm on record with one of them is lying. I'm double on record with that being SSBF over charter based on the day.[/quote]
Agreed, but do you think this is because charter claimed or because the claim itself was just sketch?

[AlmasterGM]

I know how to use preview.

I'm on record with one of them is lying. I'm double on record with that being SSBF over charter based on the day.

Agreed, but do you think this is because charter claimed or because the claim itself was just sketch?

[AlmasterGM]

Why are you opposed to giving him 1 night to, worst case scenario, bite RB (real or fake) or, best case, get a result that's authenticity will be later be known?

[AlmasterGM]

Because I was more behind in this game than I was in those.

[AlmasterGM]

HEY EVERYONE - Llama hasn't posted in over 5 days.

Mmmm, I love the smell of "trying to hide and let the wagon derail itself in mountains of game theory."

[AlmasterGM]

I forgot llama was V/LA. Nevermind. If you want to complain about me taking an extra day or two to post, go for it, I really don't care. Real life exists and I didn't feel like sitting down and reading at that particular moment. There is absolutely nothing scummy about that.

[AlmasterGM]

To rehash all this garbage about balance because somebody asked: I think cop+gunsmith+miller is balanced, esp since we don't know what scum roles there are (could be GF or something). I don't see why everyone is getting all fussy about the gunsmith claim meaning SSBF is scum. IMO, that was a bad claim to make, but whatever. Don't get me wrong, I think SSBF is scummy - but not because of that. I think the correct move is let both him live a day.

@charter / people voting noup-whatverhisnameis - Crypto's got it right - I am still confused as to why you wouldn't gunsmith on the miller claim. Yeah, you can say "I could've used it somewhere else," but using it to clear/indict someone who will otherwise be a huge pain in the ass later seems pretty useful for the town.

ANYWAY, there are multiple scummy people here, but the only one who doesn't have some sort of excuse is llama. My old and tired vote stays where it is.

[AlmasterGM]

Why am I being gotten? Because I'm "vaguely suspicious?"

lolwut?

[AlmasterGM]

You know what I hope happens. I hope that we run a legit power rule up before deadline, they claim, everyone unvotes, and we scramble and no lynch. That way, next game I'm in where someone claims a power role day one, I have yet another game to point to and say "See, this is why claiming a power role shouldn't save you". Even better would be if we lynch the power role we're about to run up.

I LOL'd when I read this. Hard. Because it's true.

HAY GUYZ I'M PODIUM AND CRYPTO LETS "START" A WAGON ON EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN THE GAME 24 HOURS BEFORE THE DEADLINE HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Short of someone claiming scum, there is no way I'm starting a new wagon. IF ANYTHING I will switch to SSBF just to make sure we get a damn lynch.

So.

Is it going to be llama or SSBF?

[AlmasterGM]

Actually, I didn't say that at all, I said you keep trying to start wagons right before the deadline. I don't care if every single one of them is legit - it's still a bad idea because, like charter said, 1) you can end up exposing our legit PRs and then 2) scrambling to unvote and getting a no lynch when you could have just settled for the extremely scummy and already-on-the-table llama and SSBF.

Also the fact that I get "scum points just for disagreeing with you shows that your system of "scum points" is flawed and assigned based on you wanting to appear to win arguments and getting me to do what you want and not based on actual scumhunting.

AFA as "Willing to go into N1 withholding valuable information, that may never be known. +scum points Give us your thoughts on the 'multiple scummy people' here" goes:

Of course I'm withholding information and so should everyone else. We don't need to end the final hours of D1 by giving the scum an exhaustive chart of exactly who we think is suspicious and how suspicious we think they are for no reason whatsoever. that's like saying "HEY SCUM, IF YOU WANT TO MANIPULATE TOWN TOMORROW, KILL THIS PERSON AND LET THAT PERSON LIVE." So yeah, it's valuable information. FOR THE SCUM.

And saying the info will "never be known" is false - it will be known TOMORROW. After the KILL. When it helps TOWN, not SCUM.

[AlmasterGM]

1. You ridiculed me for trying to resolve what you considered a bad move -- the lynching of nopoint. Hypocritical at best, scummy at worst.

Where did I do this. Quote me.

2. HOW ELSE CAN I RESOLVE IT EXCEPT TO GET SOMEONE ELSE LYNCHED?

There is a difference between getting someone else lynched and SPEWING out suspects like your life depends on it. For relevant analysis, see SpyreX's post, which I strongly approve of.

3. You say i should have chosen from llama (a town read of mine), or SSBF who we BOTH have said should live today. Both illogical for me to do, if there is similar support for another lynch.

From your perspective. Not mine. From my view, I see someone calling scum town. +1 to SpyreX's comment that if llama flips scum you're gonna be a dyin'.

Hey Einstein... it's because of the possibility of being killed. That is why i said "MAY" never be known. Dont change my words to fit your argument... it makes you look worse.

Not helping the scum pick a NK outweighs the possibility of someone not being able to give reads.

[AlmasterGM]

Where's that quote, podium?

[AlmasterGM]

How is that me ridiculing you for resolving the nopoint lynch? I wasn't talking about nopoint at all before, then, or now. I'm ridiculing you because you were entertaining the possibility of starting 3+ brand new wagons right before the deadline.

You're just inserting nopoint wagon into this out of fucking nowhere.

[AlmasterGM]

then proceeded to get a lynch other than nopoint. In doing so, i uncovered some serious scumtells that hadn't existed before the nopoint wagon. I acted on those scumtells.

Then you come in and ridicule me for trying to resolve the nopoint lynch.

Questions?

Yeah, explain the link between me ridiculing you over starting an excessive amount of wagons 24 hours before the deadline and me ridiculing you for NOT being on the nopoint wagon.

I'll help you out: THERE IS NO LINK BECAUSE THEY AREN'T THE SAME THING. AT ALL. You are creating this link out of thin air, which is obvious because you even DO IT IN YOUR POST - there's a nice big fat line of blank space inbetween each point. It's GREAT that you weren't on the nopoint wagon, and if you had followed up on that by voting SSBF or Llama, it would have been fine. Hell, if you had JUST voted Wicked (or any ONE, non-nopoint person for that matter), it would have been fine too. But no, you proceeded to launch a barrage against half the players in the game and then cherrypick one of the wagons. AND OH LOOKIE, you're not even voting for Wicked anymore, despite this super special awesome scumtell you've keep championing, you're voting SpyreX.

You are blatantly trying to get steam on ANY wagon that isn't the llama wagon, based on some outdated tell that he's "null leaning town."

SpyreX's you lying post is win, and your semantics defense of "lol I didn't actually say I WANTED to lynch him, I just said his lynch looked attractive" is megafail.

AND OH LOOk, NOW THERE'S A SANDO WAGON?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOOOOOOL.

Unvote. Vote: podium123456

WILL ALSO VOTE FOR LLAMA.

Lol. Ok, pal. "He doesnt discuss stuff" Are you kidding me? Look at the last 4 pages. Show me where i have bullied someone into thinking something they dont want to. All i have done is stood up for myself against a torrent of accusations and untruths. If you notice, 90% of the accusations are dropped because the accusers cant back them up. Your last post was almost entirely incorrect. Do you want to discuss it? Or would you rather just bad mouth me?

No, the accusations are dropped because people don't feel like wading through pointless semantics with you when it's extremely clear that your goal isn't to scumhunt but is just to win arguments using any tactic possible. Which is why I stopped arguing about the other crap with you - you aren't going to discuss legit so it doesn't matter, and I've already gotten what I want from the debate out of you.

Also, for bullying, just read, like, all of pages 15 and 16. Every time someone engages in discussion with you, you say they get scum points, threaten semantics, or vote for them.

[AlmasterGM]

I'll lynch SSBF.

[AlmasterGM]

No.

[AlmasterGM]

Hoooooooly shit, the this thread just exploded.

IF SANDO DOESN'T FLIP SCUM I WILL HATE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU. ESPECIALLY PODIUM.

[AlmasterGM]

Good morning, everyone. It was nice to catch scum yesterady, wasn't it? Don't you wish you could replicate that giddy feeling every single day?

Fortunately, you can! See, I'm the REAL cop in this game and I'm counter claiming SSBF's lying ass. Either he's scum or this setup is seriously screwed up. Given his play yesterday, I'm going to go with the latter. SSBF is scum.

Why didn't I claim yesterday, you ask? Because it was only Day 1, and I wanted to get an investigation in. Annnnnnnnnd hey, guess what?

I investigated llama last night and GOT A MOTHER FUCKIN GUILTY.

THAT'S RIGHT.

ONE NIGHT. TWO SCUM.

DAY TWO. GAME OVER.

SLAM DUNK, KA CHING KA CHING.

[AlmasterGM]

Oh yeah, I'm used to not voting because the other game I'm in has been in a danger zone for the past week so people try not to vote.

Vote: llama

[AlmasterGM]

Are all of you serious right now? Look at the two stories, objectively:

Story 1: There are two scummy players. One claims cop when under pressure and narrowly avoids a lynch (a traditionally strategic play as scum. The other escapes as well, but gets investigated that night and is found, somewhat unsurprisingly, guilty.
Story 2: There are two cops in the game, one is insane and one isn't. There is also a death miller, a Godfather, and a gunsmith. There are two scummy players; one of them just happens to have the sane cop, the other is actually town but flips innocent because one of the cops is insane. Also, the scum decided not to kill or roleblock the claimed cop, even though they just lost their Godfather and so he could now conceivably out all of them.

If you believe Story 2 over Story 1 you are out of your mind. Llama was scummy yesterday and there's NO reason to believe he ISN'T scum except for the word of a scummy, counterclaimed cop spouting the absurd Story 2. What we today is obvious: lynch llama.

[AlmasterGM]

Also, to answer questions:

@crypto - I did say that the claim was fake (I can find the quote if you want), but I felt like putting excessive pressure on the lynch would have tipped my hand, which I didn't want to do.

@SSBF - I think we should lynch llama before you. If he flips town, then I'm insane and you might be cop. If he flips scum, like I STRONGLY suspect, then you're 100% confirmed scum, no ifs ands or buts. Also consider the fact that you were insanely scummy yesterday, so there's no reason I should believe anything you say at all.

[AlmasterGM]

hiphop, it's like 2% wifom. The other 98% is just pure ridiculousness.

And even the wifom is stretchy. Scum gambit of letting claimed cop SSBF live is this early in the game is VERY risky.

[AlmasterGM]

I don't see why we are lynching SSBF first. On the off chance that his story is right, llama is a smaller loss.

[AlmasterGM]

If you lynch llama and he flips town, then we know I'm insane and there is a chance SSBF is telling the truth and we have a cop. If you lynch SSBF and he flips town, you lynched the cop and you don't know anything about llama. There could just be two cops plus a lying charter and a lot of counters (roleblocker, godfather, and millers), which wouldn't be THAT unbalanced.

It doesn't matter who you think is more microscopically scummy; strategically, lynching llama is the correct play.

[AlmasterGM]

God, why are we arguing with the scum about this. There is no way this whole "two cops, one's insane" or "AGM is lying" garbage is true. This is an easy, simple case of SCUM GETTING CAUGHT LYING and SCUM GETTING CAUGHT BY COP.

The rest of the town needs to show up.

P.S. @hiphop, my previous post explained my position on lynching SSBF vs llama. If you don't believe it, whatever. I'm totally fine with lynching either so I'm not going to sit here and pull teeth over it.

[AlmasterGM]

no, what are you talking about

[AlmasterGM]

yeah because what happened in a a theme game with a 3rd party lynchers who had very specific wincons definitely applies to a mini normal

[AlmasterGM]

If people are actually SUPER DOOPER PARANOID, I can investigate myself and charter can investigate llama for gunz AND THEN WE CAN KNOW FOR SURE.

I'm telling you, though, it's totally unnecessary. SSBF and llama are just lying through their teeth to think of ANY possible scenario, no matter how far-fetched, to get them out of the noose.

[AlmasterGM]

Fine. We lynch SSBF first.

I really don't care.

[AlmasterGM]

If I'm a sane cop (which is the most probable scenario) and, as such, you're scum, then how does it ONLY help me?

[AlmasterGM]

^ lolwut

[AlmasterGM]

V/LA until Sunday.

[AlmasterGM]

BACK.

...

WHY ARE LLAMA AND SSBF BOTH STILL ALIVE. WHAT.

@Crypto - SSBF of course. Unless llama flips town. Which he won't.

@hiphop - I don't get it. Why would we lynch on speculation when we could lynch on verifiable claims.

[AlmasterGM]

It makes perfect sense, if SSBF isn't a cop then there is just a cop and a gunsmith. The cop is watered down because of the miller AND godfather, but the Gunsmith can find the godfather guilty and the miller innocent. He also, however, finds a gun on the cop, which makes his role dubious as well. Balance wise, it's relatively equal to having one sane cop and no godfather/miller, except more confusing.

BUT IF YOU INSIST, SSBF is definitely going down before charter, because there is no way there are two straight-up cops.

[AlmasterGM]

I think he's presuming that, if SSBF is a sane town cop, then I'd have to be insane as a counterbalance and llama would thus be innocent, not guilty.

hiphop why is the only way to resolve this by lynching ssbf or charter. why can't we just lynch llama and if he flips town THEN you look at charter.

[AlmasterGM]

If we lynch charter today I will explode. This whole "charter is scum" thing REVOLVES around SSBF telling the truth and there being two cops. WHICH ISN'T TRUE. SSBF claimed YESTERDAY under lynch pressure. One of the ONLY reasons he was not lynched was because of that claim. This is a SIMPLE case of scum fakeclaiming cop and then getting counterclaimed. I don't see why everyone is so willing to believe this far-fetched story of bastard-mod paranoia.

[AlmasterGM]

@llama - I don't care how scummy charter is. He may be scummy, he may not. It doesn't matter. You don't PUT OFF two competing cop claims for another day. The cop issue needs to be resolved NOW, and lynching charter does NOTHING to help with that.

@hiphop - I already said I would lynch SSBF. But not charter. And WTF are you talking about "not listening to my emotions." None of my analysis has anything to do with emotions - it's simple logic saying that SSBF had a huge incentive to fakeclaim cop yesterday because he was scummy then and he's scummy now, so there's no reason we should believe his gambit.

Also, look how SSBF is now backpedaling on me being town because he realizes town might actually buy into this scum gambit via crazy setup theories and lynch charter.

[AlmasterGM]

what happened?

[AlmasterGM]

In the interest of game integrity, I don't think there should be an open debate on this. People have different motivations and this discussion creates a optimization subgame of sorts, where the scum have to try and push the least damaging option to their team while still trying to appear protown.

Mistakes happen. The mod should just make a decision and move on.

[AlmasterGM]

I got no result. I'm guessing that's a roleblock to the face.

This game just got sooooooooo much more confusing.

[AlmasterGM]

First of all, I don't get this, "omg it HAS to be SpyreX by process of elimination" argument. The only people in my mind who are actually legit cleared are SSBF and nopoint. Crypto, hiphop, and Wicked could just as easily be scum as SpyreX.

And, from my perspective, I'm town and SpyreX has made a lot of arguments that made sense to me. And you can't just say "it's buddying." I logically agree with his thought process. This means 1) I'm not inclined to think he is scum because of arguments he's making, because those could just as easily apply to me and 2) He hasn't really done anything else particuarily scummy, so I have no reason to suspect him over anyone else.

I'm going to go ahead and

Vote: Wicked

Yesterday, he expressed STRONG feelings that llama ws town.

After Sando flipped scum I was 90% certain that llama was town. I think Almaster is insane if he is really a cop.

I have no idea why you guys are voting Llama, but I am 99% positive that he is town. @Everybody on the Llama wagon – Do you actually think Llama makes sense as one of Sando’s scumbuddies?

Both of these reads came DESPITE a cop claim to the contrary. To explain the reads, Wicked argued that I'm insane and SSBF is telling the truth. All becuase llama HAS to be town. What's odd, though, is that this was a COMPLETE reversal of his reads from the day prior.

I am getting a town read off of hiphop so far for reasons that podium mentioned.

I'm getting a bad feeling from each of the following:

llamaeatataco
Sando
Super Smash Bros. Fan

So, according to Wicked, because Sando flipped scum, suddenly:

1) I'm insane cop
2) SSBF is now a sane cop, not scum
3) And Llama is town.

Instead of the much simpler, more cohesive theory of

1) Llama is scum.

The switch here makes absolutely no sense ... but he somehow ended up being RIGHT. To me, this looks like he knew what the flips were going to be ahead of time and decided to base his reads accordingly ... without checking what his prior position was. Which is what lead to the logical incoherence.

[AlmasterGM]

@hiphop on SSBF - the many cop counters (godfather, roleblocker, miller, AND insanity) plus the lack of charter gunsmith lead me to believe that there are two cops. Also, miller plus godfather plus insane cop is weird. Why not just have those with a sane cop?

@hiphop on other stuff - The point isn't that you ARE scum, it's that you COULD be. There's no confirmed sane cop labelling you innocent.

Also, I would respond to your defense, but I kind of wanted to argue with Wicked, not you.

@Wicked -

1. Did you, like, read my post? The whole point is that you were mysteriously right when you had no logically established chain of thought to feel so.
2. The inbetween is a massive black box. Obviously your feelings for Sando stayed the same.

And would people please stop using POE. This isn't a multiple-choice test, very little is confirmed, and there's NO POE. There's just "people who you think are town" and "people who you think are scum."

[AlmasterGM]

Also, why is Wicked claiming. Is he at L-1 with hammer threat?

[AlmasterGM]

I didn't think charter was lying. I thought he was town. Him being scum makes two cops much more likely.

Wicked over you...have to think about that one.

[AlmasterGM]

Explain this for me.

1) I was operating under the assumption that charter was telling the truth. Yes, the post doesn't make it sound that way. But that was mentality at the time.

2) "Straight up" was supposed to mean sane. At the time, I didn't know I was insane - from my perspective, llama was scummy as hell and getting a guilty was a logical sane-cop move.

So the combination of charter being scum and me being insane makes that prior statement much less applicable.

[AlmasterGM]

I just realized there are only 11 people.

What does that mean in terms of remaining scum? Are there only likely to be 2?

Because if there's only 2, SSBF is looking a LOT more attractive as the last scumster.

[AlmasterGM]

And by "2" I mean two scum total, one scum remaining alive.

[AlmasterGM]

If this setup is 11 players with 3 scum, having miller AND godfather (and possibly roleblocker) as confusing pieces, and only insane cop+bodyguard as the town PRs is yelling, "TOWN WILL LOSE HARDCORE PL0X." This is why I am more inclined to believe SSBF is town. Moreover, so long as both of us are alive, one of us isn't getting roleblocked, so we still have the chance of getting results. So I say SSBF lives a little longer at least.

We have also have at least 3 more lynches. So I suppose I wouldn't be totally opposed to spending one of those on crypto, who is sort of just sitting here awkwardly amongst some VT claims coming from people who actually SEEM TOWN and then some PRs.

But Wicked can go to. I really don't care about the order. It's only if neither of those two are scum that it actually gets difficult.

[AlmasterGM]

Yeah, and that game was terribly unbalanced.DAMN IT, I want to outguess the mod so badly. But this setup seems like it would punish that sooo incredibly hard.

I do agree with you, though, that SSBF is objectively the scummiest person here. However, I have also been wrong about SSBF being scum like 3 times now, so my ability to read him is crap.

[AlmasterGM]

LOL. SSBF.

Scared of being stuck in lylo with hiphop and somebody else whose obvtown?

When is the deadline on this game?

[AlmasterGM]

Wicked and crypto.

[AlmasterGM]

Mmmm polarization.

[AlmasterGM]

@hiphop - I'm also insane. Or some other crazy shit sanity. If I was a sane cop, then yes, I would be pushing hardcore for SSBF's lynch. But there are just too many counters for me to believe he is scum. Especially because the other people in this game aren't exactly angels. Also, I don't see why you are concerned with proving yourself as possible scum. If you're town, do you really want us wasting time reading you when we could be resolving the MUCH more sticky dichotomies?

In any case, we have three more lynches.

Wicked is hardly even fuckin playing. If he lives, he will just be more annoying down the road.

Just get rid of him and we can resolve Spyre v crypto tomorrow. And maybe even lynch SSBF.

[AlmasterGM]

I will be extremely annoyed if we lynch SSBF. I would like it if he survived at least another day or two.

You realize scum have a roleblocker and he is never going to get any results, right?

[AlmasterGM]

Almaster-Does it really matter if you are insane or sane? You are a cop, who can use your role to find scum. Can you not? SSBF is a cop(so he says), who can use his role to find scum. Is there a difference? Seriously, look at the facts. Tell me the difference between SSBF and wicked. Who really is more scummy? Also I don't want to prove myself scum, if you cannot see the point, just forget about it.

Of course it matters. It delays and confuses my results so that the scum can render me essentially useless before I can do anything. If I get a guilty and claim it, we mislynch and scum know to roleblock/kill me from then on, which is the MOST LIKELY scenario to occur (since most people in the game are going to be town). The only way I can be relevant is if 1) by some stroke of luck I investigate the godfather and get a guilty, 1/10 chance of that happening, or 2) I get 2-3 investigations in so that I have a handful of innocents AND guilties, and then we mislynch the guilty and THEN know I'm insane and lynch the real scum. By which point we are probably in lylo and going to lose anyway.

So yeah, insane cop + deathmiller + godfather is PRETTY DIFFERENT from just sane cop.

And this matters because, in my opinion, SSBF is only marginally comparable to other scummy people in the game. Compare him and crypto - why is SSBF THAT much more scummy such that it's worth overlooking the cop issue?

[AlmasterGM]

@SSBF - EXCEPT I have to fuck up first on order to figure that out, e.g. LLAMA. And now that scum now I'm a cop, I just get my face roleblocked and then probably killed later. So basically in this game me being cop accomplished nothing except help get llama killed. HOW USEFUL.

ALSO this game is 11 players and we haven't won yet. That means it's not even 9:3, it's 8:3.

WITH ONLY ONE COP AND A DEATHMILLER AND A GODFATHER? Screwwwwwww that.

SSBF is town, hiphop is probtown, I ISO'd Spyre and he could be scum but I have no particular reason to think he is. NOPOINT could also be scum, I don't know why he is totally off the radar. At all. In fact, he claimed death miller.

Wicked and crypto can die first, though. We have 3 lynches, and they are the most obv.

Go.

[AlmasterGM]

wow, if I counted correctly, that a lynch

what a fuckin fail

[AlmasterGM]

just claim scum already

[AlmasterGM]

good fuckin job ssbf, you totally ruined our chance to out spyre

[AlmasterGM]

Cool! Let's lynch Spyre now.

no

[AlmasterGM]

WHOOOOOOHOOOOOO, GO TOWN.

[AlmasterGM]

GOD THIS GAME. AND THIS SETTTTUP. WOOOSH.

However, I it wasn't all bad time. I didn't do very well, but I enjoyed all the players (no replacements, ka-ching). And I guess lynching scum on D1 wasn't all luck (like everything else). So yeah.