Last Will Mafia II (Over)

[raider8169]

CryMeARiver should know better being in the first game. Quick lets kill him so no one gets his vote!

Vote CMAR

[raider8169]

I don't get it. Why is Millar town on page two? Or is that just joking around?

I dont either so he must be scum

Unvote, Vote millar13

[raider8169]

Policy lynch the new guy? Sounds like fun.

[raider8169]

Page 4 is FAR to early for RVS to be over in a LARGE THEME GAME.

RVS is fun and all, but the most pro-town thing to do is to get out of it as soon as possible. So what if it's too early to be out of RVS? Town needs information and staying in RVS doesn't give us much information.

Hell naw! (I heard someone say that today so I had to use it)

RVS for me is going to be going on the entire game. Just because of you every post of mine is going to be jumping to a different person to vote.

Eh, maybe not but for the first day it sounds like fun, anyone with me!?!?!

Oh and I think the person we should lynch is the 4th newest account, regardless of an alt account or not.

Now I just need to figure out who that was. Until then

Unvote, Vote DocPotter

[raider8169]

POISON: Diacria

Poison would take too long to act. Nice try though.

carneybaby88

We have way too many people yet to post.

[raider8169]

Hey, are you dictating things?

Im dictating that we lynch the last person to join us in this game.

Sense I screwed up my last vote

Unvote, Vote carneybaby88

[raider8169]

First Post.

VOTE: Millar13

For being The most scummy to read throughout this thread. Be back later with a better vote/reason

Gee 8 pages in and this guy's trying to make a case in his first post. Quick lets lynch him before he has a chance to post more!

Unvote,Vote Reverse Simplicity

[raider8169]

Unvote, Vote Kmd4390

Long post, 3 words. It reminded me of another player that did that all the time only I cant remember his name.

[raider8169]

@Raider: So why is that scummy?

Who said it was scummy and why are you putting words in my mouth?

Vote Amished

[raider8169]

Everyone should at least read raider8169 in ISO and judge from there. Diacria's list is all over the place.

UNVOTE: Diacria
VOTE: raider8169

Hell yeah the first vote against me!! This is worthy of a OMGUS vote

Unvote,Vote Charlie

On my first serious note I dislike Richard at this point. Enough people have voted for now so I dont see the need for more pressure, that and I like changing my vote every post, I dont think I have ever voted so much before in a whole game.

[raider8169]

CLAIM: I'm the princess, well technically the prince lol. Except according to my message if i have read it correctly, i am only given a funeral if i am killed during the day.

Ok, I have to ask, is this really your claim or are you just BSing? I dont remember any kind of this role in the original game so I am finding it hard to believe.

[raider8169]

@Raider: Go back to page 9. You voted for KMD for "long post, 3 words (something vague about somebody else)". Obviously if you're voting them, you think they're scummy. Why is what you ostensibly voted for KMD for scummy?

Well the reasoning was for the 3 words. One after each quote. It was annoying and worry of my RVS vote. I mean I only get one chance for that after all, I wanted to make sure it was good.

Also you never read my earlier post when I said I was going to vote someone different in each of my posts just because.

Unvote, Vote Amished

I suppose I should really stop this but its fun and getting reactions so I see no downside to it, at least for day one.

[raider8169]

Quick scan of Raider's Iso should suffice.

and he complete ignores that I had mentioned this in his most recent post.

I didnt ignore it there was just no question for me to answer and you just said it like a statement. It didnt bother me or anything as it more less is what I am doing at the moment. Is there something you would like to ask me?

I have not bothered to attempt to get real reads on people. With a game this large I like to wait for a while first to get a feel of how the players are posting.

[raider8169]

Annoying is a reason to vote for somebody?

Why did you decide to vote for somebody else in each of your posts?

It wasnt annoying in the least. You just are not reading my posts and I find it odd that you are calling me out when you are not even reading my posts. I answered why a while ago, iso me and the answer is in there.

Why do people need to get a gauge on my suspicions this quickly in the game? There are still people who havnt posted so its pointless right now. Plus those suspicions will most likely change quickly as there is little to nothing to base most of them on at this point.

To me you seem to want to jump to the all serious mode when there is hardly anything to be serious about. This will change quickly but I dont feel we are there yet.

I dont do the meta thing. I like to change things up depending on my mood. Read the first game I hardly voted and that might be the game where I tried to go the whole game without voting. Not so much with this one. I find it fun to play like that is all.

[raider8169]

Pretty sure you said it was annoying...

Ah, I misunderstood you. I thought you were referring to the annoying bit as being you as I voted for you as well. Also, for day one annoying is enough of a reason to lynch someone. I rarely find anything worth while enough to really think you are lynching scum on the first day anyways. Its just going blindfold on a dart board.

I'd rather win the game quickly instead of diddling about randomly voting for every little thing or not being serious.

Also, who hasn't posted? The one person that hasn't confirmed has been replaced by me, everyone else is around in one form or another.

Fast isnt the way to win the game. Fast is what scum try to do so less information is out there and people are only gauging based on initial thoughts. That didnt help your case in my eyes.

I'll have to go back and check but I thought there were a couple people left.

[raider8169]

I believe someone in this thread asked about if someone played with Shattered Viewpoint and if so, if he played like this.

I played with Shattered Viewpoint in Mini 958: Another Mafia Problem. He played a lot better in that game then in this game IMO. Compare his ISO here to ISO in that game and you'll see why I dislike his play here compared to his Mini 958: Another Mini Problem.

I could drag your previous games into this if you'd like.

We arent allowed to play differently game to game? Sense when?

[raider8169]

.... really raider? You're going to take that out of my quote?

My fast is compared to your "I'm voting for whomever cause I want RVS/reactions for the first 13 pages". After about page 4 of a game this size I'm ready for everyone to play seriously and scumhunt.

@Charlie: So what does it matter if you don't completely agree with Diacria's town list?

4 pages in you expect people to start scum hunting? With 4 pages and 23 people at best that is like 4 posts each. You expect people to scum hunt with 4 posts per person? As that was never the case there was most likely 5 or 6 people really post in the first 4 pages and half the players didnt post until after that. How do you expect to scum hunt with that little information? This is a LARGE theme game, do not rush things. I would expect us up to about page 25 before most players start ISOing people and finding information that really helps.

[raider8169]

Well, even if it's just pointing fingers, I'm liking the conversations going on better now.

We just need to get everyone talking . I'm still wondering why Millar claimed so early... and why I haven't noticed more people talking about it.

Looking at my role and how the PM was formed I dont buy the claim. Plus who cares if (s)he gets a funeral or not. If that means his will doesnt count then its just one less vote that one person will control. Remember the key is to not let one person gain control of most of the votes.

[raider8169]

At this point of the game I like to get a feel for everyone. I do not look deep into posts and just talk. After I get a scum sign I think look at the person in isolation to and start looking more in depth.

I have not bothered to attempt to get real reads on people. With a game this large I like to wait for a while first to get a feel of how the players are posting.

hmmmmmm?

unvote, vote raider

Did you seriously quote a game of mine that I was in like 2 years ago when I first started playing? That was the first game I was scum like ever. Good job you made me laugh.

[raider8169]

4 pages in you expect people to start scum hunting? With 4 pages and 23 people at best that is like 4 posts each. You expect people to scum hunt with 4 posts per person? As that was never the case there was most likely 5 or 6 people really post in the first 4 pages and half the players didnt post until after that. How do you expect to scum hunt with that little information? This is a LARGE theme game, do not rush things. I would expect us up to about page 25 before most players start ISOing people and finding information that really helps.

There is nothing preventing people from scum hunting at any time. If the want to do it at the very beginning of the game by bringing up a particular person's meta, they can do that. Beside, like I said before, it is best to end RVS as soon as possible as we get more information in the long run.

I guess that is just something people will have different opinions on. Besides we have at least 2 people that have yet to post. If those slots are scum then we would be stupid to try and push for a real lynch this early. Granted I am but one vote right now but at any time someone is going to have 5-6 votes. There is no need to try and force the game to the next step.

[raider8169]

/anti-prod post

where is everyone?

Why are you worrying about everyone else when that is your second post ever in this game? Plus they came like a week apart.

[raider8169]

ack, triple post...

Better than a wall of text?

Never.

3 posts talking about different things is much better to me, it breaks it up and is easier to reference later on.

[raider8169]

Anything you want to clear up regarding this before I go into this slip any further?

Slip? Please do. My first line had 5 simple words.

[raider8169]

Unvote
Vote: raider8169

For the thing that Rhinox brought attention to before I could say anything....

@raider: Scum can commit scumtells in their first post. There isn't some magical time when they all of a sudden say "Ok, I can commit scumtells now". As a matter of fact, the last-last will game I caught my own scumbuddy on a scumtell on the first page but he was already dead when I replaced in (I read the first 5 pages while waiting for Llama to PM me my role). I thought Rhinox was scum on his first post on page two in an old game where he played with VP Baltar and Vi and a couple other people.

When should people start to scumhunt? 15 pages in? Hey look....

Good for you, however, you are not me. Also, with your same logic more townies have died from it then not. Those "scumtells" early on can be done from either side. Your logic is fail.

This is where I quote every game that a townie has died on the first day for scumtells. Which last I remember is like 70% of all games.

[raider8169]

Losing certainty on Superscumbrothers. I lost your scummeta from that other forum, can you link me to it again?
holy and Rhino are town.
I remember Charlie being more wallicious then now.
Something about Amished is still wierding me out.
I'm not sure on raider yet.
Really want to massacre a lurker. Or the people just making posts just before prod range. More the latter. Hmph.

I love how someone with 3 posts total come in and make stuff like this assuming it means anything. The best part is that they want to lynch a lurker when they are lurking.

Mod

I am traveling over the weekend so I will be V/LA. Sadly, I will still most likely post more then other people in this game that are not V/LA.

[raider8169]

hey raider, how closely have you been reading?

Ok, looking back that person isnt even in the game. If its your alt, you really need to stop screwing that up.

[raider8169]

The second part is regarding the italicized part of your post. After you tell us you don't believe millar, the second half of your post carries the inherant assumption that millar is telling the truth, and it would be better to lynch him so he can't pass on his voting ability, which you feel is a good thing.

Not passing on votes is a GOOD thing. If someone is lynched then they are considered not to be trusted. If they are not trusted then they most likely would not pass the vote onto someone you feel is trusted. Reminder, one person gained most of votes is a bad thing.

A princess sounds an awful lot like flavor. Outguessing the mod is not good but seeing as my role has no flavor is sounds like a fake role. Seeing as you are defending it that narrows things down.

[raider8169]

@Raider: Scumtells, by definition, are done by scum. However, to not get into a battle of semantics: Do you believe that people attacking other people advances the game?

Also, how is not passing on votes a good thing? It worked out just fine in LWI. It's relatively easy for town to find other town (and this setup rewards strong, open pro-town play). For example: I believe I was the only scum with 3+ votes. All the other ones might've gotten two. Oh, CMAR got more votes, but that was mostly from the Egyptians (I have no idea what FFFF was planning, but after I died one way or another I wanted the town to win so I gave it to one of my biggest scum reads since I knew that there were two scum factions out there.)

lol, we are going to be at this for a while, I can tell.

Scumtells are done more likely by scum then town but if that was really the case why is it that we are most likely going to lynch a townie day one then scum? In short its because the scum tells add up to accurately gauge someone instead of someone just jumping out day one saying "Hey everyone look at me I'm scum!" Attacking other people is how the game moves forward. Its natural but forcing that gets the game sidetracked and instead of really scum hunting someone is going to get lynched for some stupid reason. Right now there is not a real vote on me. Those that are have been just trying to make a bandwagon and are followers. None of them are scum hunting. Right now I think I am a good place to have a vote on simply because it can be easily disguised as an attempt at scum hunting.

Also passing on votes was never something we were able to do in the first game. Lets votes means less votes that can end up in scum control. How is that not a good thing?

Princess is a role ability? Wiki only says the next day phase is skipped and I have never seen a role like that before. So its something unique and unique normally implies flavor. The VT role has no flavor and that is my reasoning. Yes its out-guessing the mod and no its not something that is going to be used in a case to lynch him or anything but that was my reasoning for not believing it.

[raider8169]

The fact that two people did not post should not prevent anything, it's just that those two people aren't posting. They can be pressured to post and if they are scum, we should be able to catch it. If they don't post, they can always be replaced and we can judge the replacements instead. Also, if we can use multiple votes to vote different people, it would be an efficent town stragedy to put votes toward your five or six scummiest suspects. On top of that, a game can naturally translate to serious discussion in a matter of three, two, or even one page.

It doesnt prevent anything but limits our ability to judge everyone equally. The point being why rush it? Lets give those slots a chance to post before judging people. Votes on slots that are not posting does nothing but put the replacement in a crappy position and who would want to replace into that?

Scummiest suspects shouldnt happen until late day one or better yet mid day two. That is my opinion and I think its better then tunneling in on someone day one for their opinions just because what you think is different from me. Those are not reasons to lynch someone and so far that is the case on me. Chalk it up to me voting a bunch of other people during RVS or whatever to make yourself feel better but at least take some effort in trying to kill me and come up with a real case.

You do realize that you're referring to Ellibereth, but that he's under the Diacria account? Also, Diacria has been one of the more active players in the game.

I realize that now but didnt know that before. Either way its retarded and those posts need to be deleted.

Shattered Viewpoint and raider8169 are scummy, but raider8169 is scummier.

Vote: raider8169

Hell yeah I love being lynched day one for no real reason!

[raider8169]

@Raider: 1) Passing on votes = *passing votes on*to other people.
2) It sounds like you're just trying to say that you're being a VI and that's why votes are being placed onto you. a) why are you classifying yourself a VI and b) are everyone that's voting you scum since votes on you can be *disguised* as scumhunting? What about the votes that are coming on you after the fact?

@SSBF: Diacria and Ellibereth are the same person. (S)he just keeps forgetting to post on the right account. Drippereth is the same person (another "alt", but that's a hydra that Ellibereth/Diacria are part of.)

@Chevre: I'm not tunneling, period.

VI? What is that before I can answer. No each person is voting me for whatever reason but I believe the non-vocal ones (at least) are just taking the easy way out. Yes there will be scum in my lynch that much is guaranteed. Its too early for me to have a real opinion on which ones are scum. Or at least at this point I keep my thoughts to myself. My rule is those lists dont come out until day two at the least.

Still is there anything on my case that isnt something against my play style?

[raider8169]

Raider, all the information we has says that votes will always pass on. Unless/until we discover a mechanic that prevents passing votes on, we should assume its going to happen whether its good or not. Trying to play the game in a way that prevents it is thus futile and borderline distracting/non-sense.

I've been thinking about what to do about millar. If he's telling the truth, we lynch him, scum gets to kill tonight, and we get a new day tomorrow. If we don't lynch him, and he gets nked, then scum get 2 nks before we get another day. Also, assuming that means any/all town roles get 2 actions - more chances for information to go on the next day, also more chance they get killed. On the other hand, if he's lying scum, it could be a good ploy to draw a doc protect or something, nullifying a doc if we have one, and not even considering if there is a mafia watcher or something...

I think this early in such a large game, probably doesn't matter too much if we lose a day. So, no need to worry about lynching him today, and no sense wasting any protects (if they exist) on him. Later in the game, it could be dangerous if he is still alive though. We'll always have to assume scum could get 2 nks when determining if we're in LyLo, for example.

Interesting, I can see how the role fits in. Not sure I believe it yet but based on my original thoughts I take those back. With everyone else I agree with you.

[raider8169]

Rhinox it says that i only get a funeral if killed in the day....

so if i get NK i get no funeral.....

so your logic, is scummy because you have said the opposite of me.

Sorry about 20 posts in a row, its just how I catch up so I dont forget what I was going to say. Anyways, the other way makes more sense seeing as if the whole town lynches you why would they want to take a day off. However as far as a role goes it would make you not want to be lynched for the sake of the town. If that is what you say I at least understand it now.

[raider8169]

I must admit, the prince(ss) claim made me laugh... still determining if I should believe it or not. It is a rather odd and rare role given the circumstances, you have to admit. And the claim looks out of place.

Unvote

so I can clear my head.

Were you really voting millar based solely on a roleclaim that was way early and never required to be given? I thought there was more too it for some reason.

[raider8169]

Looking at LW I: there were four role exploded pre-game: Jester, Cultist, Survivor, and Princess. This time only the first three.

That alone leads me to bump millar onto my 'town' list. therefore UNVOTE: Millar

I dont remember anything but the 3 deaths. I think your confused.

[raider8169]

Chrono, my bad, I missed the part about it being the first game.

[raider8169]

@raider8169: It should be obvious that VI stands for Village Idiot. Not that it's scummy or anything.

Yeah that tends to be me. Not on purpose but I have a different way of thinking and there are people that seem to think there is only one way to play mafia.

The null tells hurt the game in the long run. Not only do they get ignored but if the slot is scum they have half their work done for them and they can just join the bandwagons and ride for the rest of the game. I've done it before and dont remember how far it got me but it was quite a bit. Sense then I have always keep an extra eye out for those slots. Votes work on active lurkers not slot that just havent posted or those that just post enough to not get replaced. Most people are distracted enough to let is slide even when called out.

Sure you can push someone for responses but is that likely to change your lynch day one? I guess we will find out with me but more then not it takes little to lynch someone day one. At lot of time its the person who stands out or just doesnt flow well with the rest of the group. If one or two people agreed with my thinking it would have been pushed aside and we would have moved onto someone else by now. Its odd how that works.

As you can see I am willing to respond to anything but the case against me is more based on my play style instead of really being scummy. Unfortunate but it happens.

[raider8169]

Hey.

It looks (from the last vote count) that I have one vote. Seeing as I've never heard of the player, this may have been a good decision.

Is there anything I should be aware of/ Players I should ISO?

Yup, know that I rock. Enjoy the read and welcome to the game!

[raider8169]

Rhinox is not scumhunting. At all.

Vote: Rhinox

Did I miss the part where you scumhunted? You call out one person when many are doing it. Why not just vote yourself?

[raider8169]

Unvote
Vote: Raider

I'm so glad you are contributing to this game care to post why or is this just another vote with no reasoning?

[raider8169]

Any wagon I form wouldn't take off anyway.

Why not? If you have a case on someone that is all it takes. Is there anyone you want lynched other then me right now?

[raider8169]

It might help if your avatar were less dreary, Rich. See: GD discussion.

Unvote Vote Raider

You annoy me now, just thought I would tell you.

[raider8169]

This isn't the only game I recently voted him in. Conversation dropped now.

Any your reasoning is where, comments, add-ons to what other people have said? You are just another lazy person adding the votes on.

[raider8169]

As far as I know, raider has not scumhunted. I know I haven't, but at least I'm trying.

Xite is town, regardless of raider's flip.

You call any of this trying? You are trying to link players together based off of nothing. Anyone can do that and it means nothing but it gives the appearance you are trying? No sorry it doesnt. Its fine if you want me lynched at this point its going to happen regardless. Its a day one lynched based on nothing. I dont think anyone is really convinced I am scum more the idea that they are hoping I am.

[raider8169]

Unvote

, I thought Amished was tunneling on me. I was proven wrong.

[raider8169]

@raider: I told you I wasn't tunneling.

Besides, tunneling is a scumtell? Since when? Who else are you suspicious of?

I never felt like you were even paying attention to other people's posts, now I believe you.

Right now I would be ok with lynching Twomz or RichardGHP. That or any of the slots that have yet to do anything in this game.

[raider8169]

Any particular reason for me raider? Or are you just throwing out names you think others would agree with to get pressure of your wagon?

You have said that you need to do ISO's for a while now and have yet to do anything on that. I get the feeling you are stalling and making false promises. Some of your other posts feel forced. I get the feeling you are hiding something or just playing oddly.

[raider8169]

Right now I would be ok with lynching Twomz or RichardGHP. That or any of the slots that have yet to do anything in this game.

What about CSL?

CSL is just trying to be heard and has nothing to say. I dont have enough of a read to come to a solid conclusion but I would not oppose him being lynched but I do not think he is at the top of those I would rather see gone.

That said, unless it changes he should not be around for end game.

[raider8169]

Ahh, stupid busy week/weekend taking up all my time. Nevermind that question...

New question: Are you essentially calling twomz/Richard active lurkers? (for the "slots that haven't done anything this game"). Why no vote on either of them?

I hear ya on the week. Its just been bad and the next few weeks for me are not going to get better.

I am not calling them active lurkers. Those ones will be another post when I have time. I was saving my vote for then.

[raider8169]

@ Xite: I understand, although I disagree. Hopefully I will prove myself useful and nonscummy to the town at some later point in town. And if you turn out scum and are messing with me... I WILL find you out and I WILL kill you.

<3 Twomz

Threatening to kill someone and close with a <3. That is sending mixed signals, lol.

[raider8169]

vote Richard

Time is bad for me right now. I was hoping to lynch a lurker day one but I would be happy to see Richard go all the same. I am willing to give Twomz more time to make up for her play.

[raider8169]

I agree that I should be lynched instead of a no lynch but I think there is enough support for a Richard lynch. People are avoiding the game being this close to a deadline so they can skate by instead of needing to make a decision and stand by it.

[raider8169]

Things are hectic for me, will post as soon as I can.

[raider8169]

A wise person (on the internet, regarding internet arguments) once said: Save the drama for the llama. Appropriate!

Once again: more votes on raider/toothless/SSBF.
Reasoning for SSBF is mainly gut, don't rely on that being serious at the moment.

Why not Richard instead?

[raider8169]

Before I settle down to some intense catching up, my reading since my last post makes me think SV is very near a lynch. Is this so? I'd rather do my catching up while I can post and not right at the end of a day.

We are getting close to a deadline, with that in mind there is no clear person anymore. It was me but people broke off and then 2 or 3 others started up (or more joined). Your best bet would be to hurry and read and decide for yourself.

[raider8169]

As I told the mod I am V/LA for the next 2 weeks, I will still post whenever I can which should be daily but I will be limited on how much time I have on the site, if it becomes a problems I will be willing to be replaced however I dont see that to be the case.

@EGL, why remove millar from the list?

ani commenting on the deaths being better then the last game is odd. Not really sure why someone would comment on that unless they were hoping for townie points.

[raider8169]

Too much thinking, Jahudo. I'm trying not to over-think stuff. I'll save you some time: Don't bother to meta. I'm doing it (mostly) different. I believe a minimalistic approach in a large theme game can be useful, coupled with playing by gut.

You see, you say stuff like that, people will think "Hey, that's pro-town!". And stuff.

Let's take a look at toothless' Town reads:

So you are playing differently then your meta. Normally I hate metas but seeing as you are purposely playing different I would like to know how you are playing different to see if it has any merits.

Also, why do you disagree with someone's read without actually giving reason for any of it?

[raider8169]

So you are playing differently then your meta. Normally I hate metas but seeing as you are purposely playing different I would like to know how you are playing different to see if it has any merits.

Also, why do you disagree with someone's read without actually giving reason for any of it?

UNVOTE: CSL
VOTE: raider8169

Kmd4390 doesn't say much. Just now he said my lynch would be bad. Okay, but he's sitting pretty here for a reason. A reason, I tell you people.

Ythan is Ythan. I remember you.

In summary, I can only make a town list. I cannot make a mafia list. Thus that will be all.

I come back and see this post, nice. Any reasoning or are you just trying to be scummy?