Open 226: Big Love - Game over! Town wins!

[Mr.Sandman]

/confirm

[Mr.Sandman]

VOTE: vote yabbaguY
.............................^ uppercase

[Mr.Sandman]

Lies! He tries to tarnish my good name with lies!

I've never been replaced...

[Mr.Sandman]

Which game?

[Mr.Sandman]

Oh, someone has identity frauded me.

yabbaguy, I think you're making mountains out of mole hills. There's nothing wrong with wagons. Chiauihaha's deliberate choice not to be on one to attract attention is also noted.

Self-voting is anti-town, even if it's done 'randomly'. It doesn't make sense and it's a stupid thing to do.

UNVOTE: yabbaguy
VOTE: Reverse Simplicity

[Mr.Sandman]

Sudden change of tac there. You've done your fair share of stunting it yourself, which is scummy in itself.

[Mr.Sandman]

Self-voting just pisses me off and I'm not gonna try to get you lynched outta anger.

Agree with this. It does my head in more than anything. I can't see anything positive which would come from doing it from a townie perspective, and yet RS decides he doesn't think its worthwhile discussing. But anyhow.. I'm leaving my vote here for now as it's the most anti-town thing that's happened so far although I concede, I don't think it's a particularly strong scum indicator

In response to chihuahahuahauha, I don't think there's any particular advantage in publicly working out who lovers are as that only confirms targets for scum and meaning they get two for the price of one.

I also vote that fidelis gets an avatar

[Mr.Sandman]

Don: Are you saying a reason exists?

i certainly think so. but he's had only a few posts. i'm not spilling the beans just yet.

When you give your reason, I'd like to hear the pro-town reason justifying you trying to get people to vote for chiuahuhauha without giving it

[Mr.Sandman]

Whyyyyy claim lover?!

I'm trying to psyche out the strategy a lover should play by and as far as I can see, it should be just the same as that of vanilla roles. I don't see why a lover would defend their partner to prevent themselves from death, especially at this stage. Maybe later in the game, after some night discussion and things become clearer about their lovers role. Is this right?

If so, the only benefit in outing lovers is for scum, is it not?

[Mr.Sandman]

I don't see why a lover would defend their partner to prevent themselves from death, especially at this stage.

Ummm why wouldn't a lover defend their partner? I mean they wouldn't do it openly of course, but still I'm sure no lovers are going to stand by and let their partner die.

If you're playing to win and you have no idea about your partners alignment then you've got no real reason to defend them. Come to think of it, the scum lover is the one with the main reason to defend their partner.

I don't think robocopter's questioning of don is a scum tell. Melodramatic, yes, but I don't see it as a particularly scummy thing to do

@Robo-160:

Holy crap. That took five seconds. I don't know what Yabba was aiming for but that was extremly stupid and scummy. He hasn't done anything besides fluff and joke around. He's V/LA right now so keeping vote on Chiauahua.

COME ON. What the fuck do I have to do to convince you that's scummy, and why the fuck am I scummy for trying to scumhunt?

[...later in the same post...]

Unvoting

here, chihuahua's doing a strong job under pressure poking holes in theories. The AtE-ish "oh it sucks to be under pressure" is ridiculous and needs to die, it's obscuring my read. Stop jamming my radar, dammit.

Note: The pace of the game is probably throttling quite a few of the players right now (effect: they lurk as Zero mentioned)- so I'd avoid chatroom-esque arguments and overly substantive rants if possible. Give them a chance to breathe.

What's prompting the sudden change in heart on chiauahuahuahua? I don't see any improvement difference in his/her play other than chihuahua's most recent post where he/she managed to stretch to more than 1 line

[Mr.Sandman]

Yabbaguy, answer my question in #213 please

[Mr.Sandman]

@mr.sandman: I unvoted because I felt posts like this at least try to poke holes in theories. I also think that his general behavior towards millar, while extremely naive, reflects potential Town motives, if obscured by the inherent imperfections of being a newbie and not having any concrete sense for how to deal with extreme irrationality.

Perhaps chihuahua could very easily be contriving the case on millar though, naive or not, it's easy to pounce on someone who is or claims/appears to be of less-than-perfect intelligence in real life or in this game. Not discounting that. I need to have yet another look.

@chihuahua: Are you familiar with millar in any way (in other words: have you seen him play games, interact with the site, etc.)?

Also... noob != newb? Wuh?

I see. To me, there didn't look like a massive shift in the way chihuahua was playing until after the post I asked you about. I'm still not entirely convinced.

However, for now

UNVOTE

VOTE: millar

Until he starts acting like he's scum hunting at least

[Mr.Sandman]

EBWOP: people like Mr. Sandman are the clear scum....people just needed a lesson in


"IT NEVER THAT EASY"

boneheads

Is this your attempt at scum hunting? Contribute nothing and then accuse the people that actually try and get some sense out of you of being scum?

Anyway, I'm happy enough to lynch Xite and millar if they're lovers as it appears, on the grounds of what Xite just said.

Millar, do you think this would be a good lynch for town?

[Mr.Sandman]

I think both Xite and Millar are scummy for claiming lover. I don't think both of them are lover's, possibly neither. I think one of them may well be bluffing to draw out the real lovers.

[Mr.Sandman]

Uhm

Actually, I totally follow his logic. He just doesn't relay it well, I guess.

If we outed

one

pair of lovers at a time

, wait to see if they get nk'd and if they don't we can assume one is the scum lover.
I am aware that things can go wrong with this plan, but I'm willing to try it
That being said, I'd like to out myself. I am one, but I'm going to not out my lover at the moment, they can out themself if they deem fit.

Other lovers - don't say a word until we see if this works out.

I'm willing to be put on the chopping block for a possibly dumb idea.

Uhm... yeah?
So I think I told other lovers NOT to claim right ^ there
Now are you going to read the game? Just Wondering

Emmm, yes I am But it's a ridiculous plan which is flawed in one major way in that the scum know about the plan, therefore they know that if a pair of lovers come out, which don't include the scum lover, if they night kill at random anyone but the claimed lovers, then town merrily lynch a pair of townies and is no further forward and could do the same again the next night, leaving the town down 7 players before it even bothers to start trying to scum hunt. So, yes, it is entirely plausible either of you is scum trying to draw out a pair of lovers

[Mr.Sandman]

@Sandman-338: Poor thought. millar's claimed and backtracked and backtracked again, but Xite claimed it seriously. I think it was a poor time to do it, but I believe it.

Xite has a point, your opinion and Xite's don't get along at all. My eye's on you.

And you believe there are townie motives behind it? The plan is so flawed. Both of their plans/strategies are. I think that no more lovers should claim

[Mr.Sandman]

Emmm, yes I am But it's a ridiculous plan which is flawed in one major way in that the scum know about the plan, therefore they know that if a pair of lovers come out, which don't include the scum lover, if they night kill at random anyone but the claimed lovers, then town merrily lynch a pair of townies and is no further forward and could do the same again the next night, leaving the town down 7 players before it even bothers to start trying to scum hunt. So, yes, it is entirely plausible either of you is scum trying to draw out a pair of lovers

Unless I'm a genius and no one else knows it?
Just lynch someone else k?
If nothing comes out of it I will gladly do a lynch on millar/me tomorrow

I'm so confused. I need to have a reread. Millar has tied me in a knot

[Mr.Sandman]

I would happily lynch either Xite or Millar. I can't see how they could be lovers with each other. At the moment, I find Millar's claim that they're not lovers with each other more believable than Xite's claim that they are lovers, just because of the whole 'plan' business Xite keeps drumming on about which everyone else is denying any knowledge of. However, something that doesn't tie into this is this post:

Tbh....i think tha you should lynch me today....and when Xite doesn't die

you will know he is lying

that is sacrafice i will happily take...il even hammer myself to prove the point

which suggests to me that Millar either doesn't have a lover, or if he does, he's the treachorous lover, otherwise he wouldn't want to sacrifice himself and a fellow townie just to prove a point. Given that he's stated that it's someone on the prod list, which is convenient given that he wants to die now, I'm happy with my vote on him.

[Mr.Sandman]

Apologies for the inactivity. Internet connection problems.

I'm inclined to believe Xite, despite the 'plan' being flawed in more than one place.

I would also like to see the case on chiahuahua. If we're looking for one lover who is scum, I don't think we should forget everything that miller's said and done, particularly taking into consideration his actions earlier. He's done nothing notably pro-town - hasn't produced cases when he said he would, self-voted, claimed about 4 different roles. I'm not defending chiahuahua but it seems like everyone's suddenly just forgetting everything that's happened just because a new wagon has sprung up.

I agree with Fidelis that SV looks scummy and although it doesn't look like a lynch which is particularly likely to happen today what with the miller, chiahuahua, xite prospects on the go at the moment, I don't think this should be ignored completely.

[Mr.Sandman]

Internet issues have resolved themselves.

I don't think millar would be a good lynch today. If the other pairs of lover's die, it will expose him but until then, I don't see that there's much point in them jeapordising their position or risking another lover coming out to support millar if he is indeed a lover.

vote Shattered Viewpoint

For very little contribution to the game in the posts he has made, his vote on Xite which put Xite to L-1 which came out of nowhere, having barely mentioned his existence before that point, and being especially significant given that chiuahaha said he'd hammer if it was L-1. And lastly, hammers chiuahauaha out of nowhere as well, which looks like an attempt to look townier by getting on a town lynch.

[Mr.Sandman]

Don, I think Xite's plan is too ridiculous to be devised by scum. I don't see how scum would devise such a plan and hope to live, particularly given that the non-lover scum players are the ones that would be more important to protect as there is less chance of them dieing, and if scum did devise such a plan, that the benefits would outweigh the disadvantages of it. Yes, in an extreme circumstance, it would be worth a punt from a scum player, to try and sway something and get the gain from it, but Xite seemed to genuinely believe that that was a good play for the town.

Don_johnson does seem to be flailing right now, what with the rapid posts, the vote swaps.
He seemed scummy to me day one aswell, but this play has definately put him on top of my scumdar.

I would like to wait until everyone realises it is day 2 before casting blind impulse votes (Never been a fan of them).
quick Q, to lynch it takes 8 now right?

FoS: Wacka

Why so reluctant to vote? It takes 9 to lynch but we're hardly going to get a lynch any time soon, therefore there's no reason to be reluctant to vote. I don't see that impulse is necessarily a bad thing anyway. Who are you suspicious of from day 1?

[Mr.Sandman]

A note to people who wonder why I don't shoot off votes willy-nilly - A vote (To me) means that I believe that there is a good chance the person I am voting for is scum and that I think that the information gained from their death warrants the lynch.
I refuse to impulse vote (Outside of RVS, even though I also dislike that), as it just says to me that people are flip-flopping and flailing to seem like an aggressive town, which is one of the reasons Don is appearing to be the most DANGEROUS scum possibility that we could have at this time.

Case to come on how I think Don is a sacrificial scum.

P.S.
Shattered I think is just an idiot, I mean, we wrote off Millar for almost the same thing, now, I am not forgetting Millar, nor do I consider his "Safe", but I still think that Shattered is a misguided townie, trying desperately to help the town.

Case to come on why I think Shattered is an

idiot

misguided townie.

Case to come on why I think Mr. Sandman might be Don's lover.

Explanations to the following questions to come:

Who are you suspicious of from day 1? (Sandman)

How, if I were to be don's lover, can I be the most suspicious from day 1?

SV and millar are completely different. Millar caused confusion. SV slunk along and tried to quietly manipulate things.

And if I'm your most suspicious person from day 1, why are you making a case on why Xite should be lynched when Xite's replacement hadn't even spoken by that point?

I disagree with a don lynch. I think he looks more town than anything from day 1.

Wacka's terrible logic and contrived arguments have moved him fairly high on my list of suspects right now.

Zajnet is doing nothing to push the cases on the two people he wants to lynch. All he's doing is prod dodging and trying to look active with his 'let's lynch such and such' 'why isn't everyone voting such and such yet' posts.

[Mr.Sandman]

Hmm

[Mr.Sandman]

Sorry. I realise that sometimes my thoughts are so deep, the words which would express them haven't been invented yet. I'll have to try harder

[Mr.Sandman]

A quick note, Sandman, you aren't my most suspicious from D1, you ASKED me that question.

Your name is there so I can say "Sandman, the person who I thought was most suspicious day one was..."
Not
"The person who I thought was most suspicious day one was Sandman"

I hope that clears that up, the only thing I'm not liking about you is your avatar (Never liked the american comedy of family guy)

Accepted. I misunderstood.

[Mr.Sandman]

Ha. Wonderful.

[Mr.Sandman]

I'm afraid I'm struggling a bit for internet access at the moment again. I think Wacka and Muthaa deserve some attention, given the way the last two lynches have panned out. Wacka looked scummy before we had this flip, so given the flip, I would have him as a likely candidate for my vote off the top of my head but I'd like to have a proper look back at some point when I get the time, hopefully sooner rather than later. Apologies

[Mr.Sandman]

Why's everyone voting without reasons?

VOTE: wacka alpaka
For obvious reasons.

@ sanxion: No, except for millar's lover since now the doctor is dead anyways.

Explain these obvious reasons...

unvote, vote: mallowgeno

He's scum.

Why?

So...why are we lagging and why aren't we lynching Zajnet?

And while Wacka vaguely makes sense as a possible scum--I haven't ISOed him yet--Muthaa's minimal posting doesn't seem any worse than that of other offenders, like Sanxion or smashbro_SSS.

Why Zajnet?

And... rather than just looking at the quantity of the posts, the content and voting patterns seem to cast the two you mention, in a rather more favourable light

[Mr.Sandman]

So by mallow's logic I'm scum as well.

VOTE: mallowgeno

(inb4 lurker vote hopping...)

We have room to spare since we've hit scum twice. If mallow flips town, don will be my #1 suspect.

This post is scummy. The 'I'll jump on this wagon, then the person that started is scum if the person flips town' is a typical scum post

vote Zajnet

[Mr.Sandman]

14 players alive, out which of which only 2 are scum. It feels like there's only about 5 players playing. Some players need to start contributing or we could end up lynching the contributors just because they're the ones that happen to be saying something

[Mr.Sandman]

V/LA till Monday probably

[Mr.Sandman]

Does millar look like hes actually been in this thread recently?

You know what's a smarter idea? Asking the other 2 parties if they are the lover or not.

You're saying the other two lovers should claim to prove your innocence? Terrible idea.

Don, where does this connection between Mallow and zero come from...

Mallowgeno first. If scum, zero next. More when I return from vacation.

...and what do you think of Zajnet?

[Mr.Sandman]

Whoever said Robo was scum, after reading his post 3 above, I just ISO'd him, and I think you may be right. Things I noticed: voted chiuahua at the start of day 1 (possible bussing) but changed to millar then xite and towards the end, rejoins the chiauhua bandwagon when prompted by Fidelis, with this vote.

unvote vote Chi

I shall help in this endeavor I guess.

A reluctant vote if ever I saw one. It has nothing to do with the reasons he had against chi before. He doesn’t even bring them up again. He makes no effort to support the bandwagon, it almost seems at points as if he is discouraging it, but he joins it anyway.

Tries to buy chi some time, despite being one of the ones voting him:

Hey, Chi hasn't posted in this game or the other game I'm in with him.

Day 2, contributed very little of value, just one liners here and there. Big contrast to what he had been like pre-Chi bandwagon.

Don't know if he needs one more but,

unvote vote SV

Wow.

Gets on the SV wagon AFTER SV had self hammered. Doesn’t say anything at the time then a few posts on, gets all celebratory on us.

Day 3, has posted to avoid prods for 5 pages and contributed absolutely nothing. Example of this being 3 above. Hasn’t commented on anything that has happened today or any other day yet.

I like the Zajnet case and I will rejoin that one if this one doesn’t look like it’ll take off the ground today, but I feel more sure about this one as I see pretty much nothing that would give me any confidence that Robo is townie.

unvote, vote Robo

[Mr.Sandman]

Today has been pathetic. Deadline on Monday and we have absolutely no consensus on who the lynch should be. Players just popping on to vote and not adding anything else don't help. Given that there is a high chance we'll lose two more townies tonight if Enigma's claim is correct, I don't see where this lacaidaisical attitude has come from.

Further point to add to my case on robo, he has been posting and active in other games, it's just this one in which he chooses to active lurk in.

I still think that given day 1, Xite/mallow is unlikely scum. Could someone set out a case on mallowgeno for me. Something more than two lines would be nice.

[Mr.Sandman]

Who's your top two choices for scum?

[Mr.Sandman]

I'll go with this a my second choice for a lynch

unvote, vote Zajnet

[Mr.Sandman]

That's L-1 by my count

[Mr.Sandman]

This is a shambles

unvote, vote Robo

I want a robo lynch over a mallow one

[Mr.Sandman]

OMGUAS!

That's "Oh my god you all SUCK!".

Cases people. Cases. They need to be made.

I agree with you. Thanks for reading this and commenting on it the first time round

Whoever said Robo was scum, after reading his post 3 above, I just ISO'd him, and I think you may be right. Things I noticed: voted chiuahua at the start of day 1 (possible bussing) but changed to millar then xite and towards the end, rejoins the chiauhua bandwagon when prompted by Fidelis, with this vote.

unvote vote Chi

I shall help in this endeavor I guess.

A reluctant vote if ever I saw one. It has nothing to do with the reasons he had against chi before. He doesn’t even bring them up again. He makes no effort to support the bandwagon, it almost seems at points as if he is discouraging it, but he joins it anyway.

Tries to buy chi some time, despite being one of the ones voting him:

Hey, Chi hasn't posted in this game or the other game I'm in with him.

Day 2, contributed very little of value, just one liners here and there. Big contrast to what he had been like pre-Chi bandwagon.

Don't know if he needs one more but,

unvote vote SV

Wow.

Gets on the SV wagon AFTER SV had self hammered. Doesn’t say anything at the time then a few posts on, gets all celebratory on us.

Day 3, has posted to avoid prods for 5 pages and contributed absolutely nothing. Example of this being 3 above. Hasn’t commented on anything that has happened today or any other day yet.

I like the Zajnet case and I will rejoin that one if this one doesn’t look like it’ll take off the ground today, but I feel more sure about this one as I see pretty much nothing that would give me any confidence that Robo is townie.

unvote, vote Robo

He's done nothing to change any of this since, seems happy to jump on whichever bandwagon is going.

[Mr.Sandman]

Yep it was a lynch. I don't think we can choose to skip it. I hope we can't because this is getting farcical.

[Mr.Sandman]

A couple of hours, I think. Doesn't really matter though. We just need the mod to come on and string zajnet up

[Mr.Sandman]

Why would you prefer wacka? Let's get some discussion going. Day 3 was scums in a plate to get away with whatever they wanted

[Mr.Sandman]

@ Sandman: Because he was protecting SV and :

Even if SV isn't scum, I believe wacka is one. His "sandman and (who ever it was) are lovers" is more of an attempt to confuse the doc than anything else.

@ mallowgeno: What makes me a scum?

Is that line the reason you refer to?

I don't see why your not voting him or trying to convince people if he's your preferred lynch

FoS: Muthaa

[Mr.Sandman]

My picks for the remaining scum are Robocopter and Wacka. Robocopter, I've already said why I think is scummy. Wacka, I always intended to say but didn't and then he faded out of my mind in yesterday's shambles. Anyway, here goes:

Didn't vote either of the two players who flipped scum at any point. A lot of his posts are contentless, just posts saying I'm away or sorry I haven't been active. Posts a lot of 'theory' posts which aren't really that relevant to the game. Tries to buy chiuahuahua some time in his ISO #19, by pointing out the fact he hadn't been active. Eventually puts a FoS on chiuahuahua but says that lynching him day 1 would be a bad idea.

Day 2, says he is going to present a case on why he thinks SV is just a misguided townie and not scum. Don is his main target. Day 3 is V/LA most of the day, votes Zajnet when he's already been lynched because everyone else is. Admits on Day 4 that he was lurking intentionally.

Asks to be replaced but the scummiest bit is this line:

And Robo, don't screw this up for us

which is like a double bluff. He hadn't mentioned claiming scum before so why say that right at the end of the post when your town and your going to be replacing just because you don't like what's happening?

[Mr.Sandman]

I'd be interested to know what you think the answers to those questions are, ZeroFang...

[Mr.Sandman]

I'd be interested to know what you think the answers to those questions are, ZeroFang...

I want people to speak up about the subject so that I can make more informed decisions. I'm in a toss up at the moment and so I want people's general thoughts. Though, ignoring it is ok to I guess

I didn't ignore it. It's easy enough to be the one who dictates things and asks the questions, without giving anything away yourself. I wanted your answer so that I can make more informed decisions about you...

Because I'm feeling nice, and we've got those pesky TLDR's about.

- Mr.Sandman, do you think scum would act how millar acted? How is that behavior, on the first day no less; beneficial to the scum? To me it seemed he was that way from the get-go, and he was close to getting lynched.
- Switz why would you do all of that reading and giving opinions, to then boil it all down to mathematics?
- Zero. About your Xite/Millar/Robo buddying being too close for comfort. Who of those three did/do you think are scum?
- Zero. Your #533-536 mention others more than Chihuahua. Why did you find Chihuahua scummy?
- Why do you lurk Muthaa?
- David, why did you vote for Chihuahua?

- Sanxion, why are you lurking and wagoning, and overall contributing very little to the discussions?

- Wow David. One minute. Jumpy, much?
- Muthaa, why are you always lurking?
- mallow. Why do you wagon? Did you even ISO Muthaa?


All of the questions. Please answer, thanks.

It wreaked confusion. Confusion allows scum to do what it does less easily detected. I also looked at it from the point of view of how was it in any way benefiting the town to play like that? I still don't know the answer to that but millar is fairly low on the radar now.

Robo is still doing sweet fanny adams.

Switz, you obviously don't understand.

We aren't going to catch scum by scumhunting. Not this time. I said it before, there is to many scummy things about each individual player to build a case on one person that outdoes all the other players.

I am willing to lynch Wacka due to his, "And Robo, don't screw this up for us "

Right there he basically claims scum. I know that calls me scum too but he knows hes going down. So why not take someone down with him? Since I am one of the scummiest players, he chooses me. Which is the obvious choice.

Now please, let us Lynch this scumbag.

This just adds to my thoughts on robo. We aren't going to catch scum by scumhunting? That means essentially we're just guessing. And then you go straight on from there to do exactly what you said wouldn't work by looking like you're attempting to scum hunt by finding something scummy wrong with wacka's post

[Mr.Sandman]

It's not the fact that Wacka was replaced, it was the way he went about it. Yea, people disappear all the time or asked to be replaced because they're too busy, and that's fairly likely a null tell in most cases. Wacka got replaced because he objected to being voted for doing something he saw others had been doing and got away with. And then he tried to pull some bluff double bluff thing. Why would a townie do that, even if they can't play on?

And Enigma shouldn't be today's lynch.

Enigma, tell us what you've been discussing every night.

[Mr.Sandman]

Either robo or Miyu should be today's lynch. I don't see where these votes for mallow are coming from. I can't see scum coming up with that plan in day 1. Was the purpose of that not to draw the scum kill? It was flawed, yes, but I think it was genuine. I have no real preference between robo and miyu

vote Miyu

for aforementioned reasons

[Mr.Sandman]

Hahaha. You're going to dare and imply that I am lazy Muthaa. When you have now.. 33 maybe 34 posts out of 42 pages?? Oh dear me.

What are your reasons David?
What are yours Mr.Sandman? That you don't have a preference between myself and Robo?

Robo, answer my questions.

I don't have a preference because I can't distinguish to myself which out of the two of you is scummier

[Mr.Sandman]

I actually agree a little with Robo about Sanxion. While I think Miyu and Robo are exceptionally scummy, I'm not writing off the possibility of most people being scum yet. I need to look into Sanxion in more detail

[Mr.Sandman]

DP has shot up my scum list after that hammer. His explanation for the hammer smells even more than the hammer itself. His voting patterns don't exactly cast him in the most favourable of lights either

[Mr.Sandman]

Something about Miyu's approach to today is making me think that his approach is the result of scum discussion. Yes, the DP hammer looks scummy, but it's also standard practice for scum to use the scummy things townie's do to turn things against them, with what looks like legitimate reasons. I haven't seen DP as a scummy player other than that hammer. Miyu on the other hand, I have. This is just what my instinct is telling me right now

[Mr.Sandman]

Haha apologies Miyu. I did read that. I just didn't absorb it.

Sanxion, I'm not letting him off the hook. I'm taking everything into consideration. Just because DP did the most recent scummy thing doesn't make him the scummiest

[Mr.Sandman]

Mod: could Switz get a proud please

I think we should all say not just who we think should hang today, but who our picks for the two remaining scum are. I'll kick it off by saying Miyu and Sanxion. Miyu has been ever since the wacka days. Sanxion has been more scummy of recent times but looking back, he has lurked for long periods of the game and gotten away with contributing very little

Switz has been prodded. -

Mod

[Mr.Sandman]

@Sandman: Again with Muthaa. I know I'm mentioning him a lot. It's because he's lurked so successfully that he's avoided notice. What has Sanxion done or not done that's any worse than what Muthaa's done?

Muthaa has voted wacka/miyu a lot and, given my opinion of miyu, that gives Muthaa some more credibility. If I'm wrong about wacka, then I agree that Muthaa is highly suspicious.

As for Sanxion, I don't like the way he sidled onto the two scum lynches, getting on them at a midway stage when it looked likely they would lynch, but putting no effort into scum hunting himself, just latching onto the cases with half-hearted posts. However, other than that and the lurking, I'll be honest, it's not a strong read.

After the robo lynch, I'm not convinced about wacka either, which I was before.

I welcome this replacement and look forward to what he has to say. I'd say Switz was one of my strongest town reads.

Opinion of the DP's hammer, Zero?

[Mr.Sandman]

VOTE: chihuahua0

It's all been said, plus Fidelis has been convinced as chi's lover, so I think this wagon is the clearly the best by far.

Vote Shattered Viewpoint

Switz's case makes more sense than David's post, but I don't that one isn't unfounded either.

Sidles onto both the scum lynches in very similar manners, at very similar stages. Other than that, most of the evidence in Sanxion is in what he's not said, rather than what he has i.e. his lurkiness

My picks for the remaining scum are Robocopter and Wacka. Robocopter, I've already said why I think is scummy. Wacka, I always intended to say but didn't and then he faded out of my mind in yesterday's shambles. Anyway, here goes:

Didn't vote either of the two players who flipped scum at any point. A lot of his posts are contentless, just posts saying I'm away or sorry I haven't been active. Posts a lot of 'theory' posts which aren't really that relevant to the game. Tries to buy chiuahuahua some time in his ISO #19, by pointing out the fact he hadn't been active. Eventually puts a FoS on chiuahuahua but says that lynching him day 1 would be a bad idea.

Day 2, says he is going to present a case on why he thinks SV is just a misguided townie and not scum. Don is his main target. Day 3 is V/LA most of the day, votes Zajnet when he's already been lynched because everyone else is. Admits on Day 4 that he was lurking intentionally.

Asks to be replaced but the scummiest bit is this line:

And Robo, don't screw this up for us

which is like a double bluff. He hadn't mentioned claiming scum before so why say that right at the end of the post when your town and your going to be replacing just because you don't like what's happening?

Most of my distrust of Wacka is based on that last line he left, especially more so now that Robo's been lynched and has flipped town. I say that because Wacka and Robo were the two strongest wagons at that stage I think. That line looks even more like a deflection

[Mr.Sandman]

Lol you give me more credit than is due. Bussing my partner wouldn't be smart in this stage. Therefore you need to recheck your facts because either Miyu or I are scum. Both is not possible.

This post sounds wrong, for a couple of reasons - WIFOMing the scum tactics and saying that either one or the other is implies knowledge. The idea of mallow being scum is growing on me.

I still see three possibilities for the second scum slot - mallow, Sanxion and I see the case on Zero and think there may be some merit in it, but I'm also aware that in this game more than most, most people look scummy just because of the way in which the game has been played. At the moment, Zero would be lowest out of the three and would probably fall into this category. Miyu, I have most confidence in getting right and thus she is my preference for today's lynch when the time comes

[Mr.Sandman]

Ythill, I took them more as Wacka legitimasing Xite not being killed at night by mafia, which would happen if he was town. However, looking back, that is taking them out of context. The first one, he is voting millar and in the same post, he still seems to think that millar is the one that should be lynched. His attack on xite's plan completely misses the point of what xite was suggesting. This comes at the end of his case on Xite...

I really do not like your play right now, with your huge amount of posts, many EBWOP (which shows nervousness).
My vote stays on you untill we can show someone else is scummier.

I think his case and attacks on xite were just to blend in and that there is a possibility that the things you've picked up on could also be from the perspective of scum protecting scum. I see the quote reference to millar as more giving away knowledge that he actually knew millar was town. Xite's plan is one of the things which make me see mallow in a more favourable light.

However, this post probably makes very little sense. I apologise, I'm shattered, I'll look over this in more detail tomorrow, just thought I'd give you my initial thoughts

[Mr.Sandman]

Miyu, 1134 and 1140. I don't know what else exactly you want me to say...

Ythill, the fact that Wacka continued to persevere with his case on Xite even when Xite is no longer the 'popular' wagon supports to some extent your theory that the two possibly aren't connected. If that is the case however, I still favour Wacka as scum over Xite.

Also, just pointing out so that whatever happens we don't end up with a no lynch, we have less than a week now till the deadline

[Mr.Sandman]

RedCoyote, because I'm still not convinced on mallow, whereas I am on Miyu, therefore I want to lynch Miyu.

Miyu, that's because Wacka did enough to convince me of your scumminess. You haven't done anything overly scummy, but that doesn't detract from the actions of who you replaced

vote Miyu

[Mr.Sandman]

Apologies, I'm struggling for time right now but things should clear up within a couple of days I hope. I know the deadline's close so I'll give this game priority if I get the chance but that's the best I can do I'm afraid

[Mr.Sandman]

I apologise for my inactivity. Started a distance learning course after works so been trying to catch up on that and it's been taking up my free time. I've had a very quick skim through and I find ythill's analysis of David compelling. It was just a skim and I need to respond to hito's post against me, and Miyu's question for me as well but I'm no longer as averse to a Mallow lynch as I was. The one thing niggling me there though is the plan, which I still don't see as a being concoted by scum. Perhaps I'm just being stubborn, because I do see the scumminess of the player, but it's still enough for me to prefer a DP lynch.

unvote, vote DavidParker

On Miyu, I think, as with Mallow, I may be basing too much on one thing which stands out to me as out and out scum, which in Miyu's case was Wacka's parting post. Not that I intend to write that off, but I need to carry out a reassessment

[Mr.Sandman]

I will.

unvote, vote mallow

I expected miyu to hence I put my vote on a player which more accurately portrayed my opinion, but mallow is up there on my list so I'm happier with this than a wasted day

[Mr.Sandman]

The lovers should claim. If we lynch town today and the scum hit a lover, it's all over, therefore the obvious thing to do is to minimise the risk today by gaining all the information we can.

My top two suspects are Miyu and Sanxion.

[Mr.Sandman]

I don't really know where to start.

Miyu, if you're still talking about post 1113, then I've answered you twice already, and I didn't say anything about finding you scummy (although I do moreso now), I said that at that point, Wacka's actions had done enough to give me a scum read on you.

Ythill, you asked for an explanation of my change to DP. I generally approach scumhunting as gathering evidence for and against a person and weighing up that up against each other and the other candidates and deciding who I think is scummiest, which is how the game is played generally, I think. Every so often though, I think there are certain posts, whether it be what is said, or how it is said, or when it is said, that I think are only things that scum would say. I think Wacka's last post was such and have thought so, pretty much ever since. For the DP lynch, I was aware of the impending deadline, and that made me also start to think that maybe I had been overemphasising that one particular thing. It couldn't've been an entirely scum driven wagon, a Miyu lynch definitely wasn't happening, and I had found DP scummy so it seemed like a decent bet.

With the benefit of hindsight, and with what I've read through today, I'm back to where I was on Miyu. I think it's noticeable how Miyu was willing to hammer DP, but then disappeared for the few days before the lynch, potentially in an attempt not to be as strongly as associated with the lynch as she might have been. Her responses to questioning today, for example – the overly aggressiveness, which avoid any real defence and consist mainly of accusing people of not having arguments against her, seek to undermine the arguments put against her, rather than actually doing anything to disprove the points made.

I'll add more on other people tomorrow hopefully. I don't have any clear idea who Miyu's scum partner would be.

[Mr.Sandman]

Sandman. What are your opinions on RedCoyote, Mallow, and Switz? You specifically said that I was scummy since the Wacka days, which I believe implies that I have done scummy things. Please point those out. It really is not a difficult task. If you are going to think someone is a particular alignment and say it vocally; then you really should back it up with some sort of reasoning and evidence. Especially when asked nicely.

You're going out of your way to be as unhelpful as possible.

If this is the post you mean, your own post looks even more stupid, because I specifically said 'Miyu, that's because Wacka did enough to convince me of your scumminess. You haven't done anything overly scummy, but that doesn't detract from the actions of who you replaced '. I think you have now however, and your whole defense to what people are presenting to you consists of nothing but saying that people don't have a case and that their useless and full of hot air. Also, picking up on things like you did in my last post about not realising it was mallow who got lynched, clearly mixing the two up in my mind. I'm not trying to deceive everyone about your scumminess based on a 'lie' I tell everyone, in the hopes that noone remembers who the last lynch was. I was wrong about the willing to hammer mallow bit, I misremembered Ythill's question at the top of the lynch page, as a statement that you had said you intended to hammer, however.

As for the first part of quoted post, I wouldn't write Red off but I find Zero and Sanxion more likely candidates. I read Zero and I think he's scummy for the way he barely mentions Miyu despite Miyu being the scummiest player in the game. Then I read Sanxion and Sanxion seems scummier for the semi-defenses he puts up of Miyu, and the confessions of lurking and merely jumping on the SV bandwagon just because everyone else was. Then I look at the fact that Sanxion didn't post since pre-last night lynch and I wonder if he was actually about last night to have scum discussion before he disappeared, because if he's scum and wasn't, I think it's unlikely he would've been left in the game. I know it's a technical thing but I'd be glad to hear opinion on that last point, whether there could possibly be any merit to it and if so, what can be made of it.

[Mr.Sandman]

vote Miyu

And I agree with Ythill about RC's last post.

[Mr.Sandman]

*dies laughing*
This game, wow. Full of idiots. Sandman. Oh man. Wow. Just wow.

Why thank you

Starting the day with the intention to no lynch doesn't make sense. 3 townie brains are better than 2, and if we know we're going to no lynch, we won't bother trying to scum hunt. Proof of which is you've voted no lynch already. If it gets towards the end of the day and there is no consensus, then we can think about no lynching.

I think all three of you are scummy for different reasons. The thing which is making me not vote RC is the fact he was first on the chihuahua lynch and early on the SV lynch. Whether or not that is enough remains to be seen, especially given the number of defenses he has made of Wacka/Miyu since he replaced in. Also, ended up on the wagon anyway notably. I'll comment more on the others in the dueness of course, just checking in

[Mr.Sandman]

The only reason we're not having discussion is because you don't want it. If you weren't no lynching, maybe we would be able to generate some. I'm not contemplating no lynching at this stage and it doesn't look like DGB is either, so your efforts would be better of exerted on something else. You haven't even considered the fact that we've got a replacee who can possibly offer fresh insight. The attempt to avoid discussion has been duly noted however. And it wasn't pretty clear you came around in the last few pages. You hopped on at the end, when it became inevitable.

[Mr.Sandman]

Whoa

DGB, are you ready to join with me yet? Priority-wise, I'd prefer a pickem lynch over a no lynch. I just voted no lynch because I thought it would be easier to get through.

The more I think about it though, the more I think maybe you'll acquiesce on the grounds that we're effectively the only two left playing this game. Hear me out, because this could be construed as a bit of a radical argument. Wouldn't you rather take a shot at lynching pickem than sitting here waiting indefinitely for him or someone who would replace him? Even if you think I'm more likely to be scum, you don't know for sure. hito was convinced that I was town. Ythill was strongly in favor of me as town for the majority of the previous day... My proposal is that we'll get this game done, and your conscience will be clean either way. After all, it's not your fault that the game is stagnating. Rather than drag this game out any longer, you went with the logical alternative. You can argue 'til you're blue in the face that you know I'm scum, but that doesn't change the fact that there's no one here to listen to you except for me.

It's just an added benefit that I am actually town, btw.

Dp you not find this post scummy, DGB? I thought this would've confirmed you rather than put you off

[Mr.Sandman]

I agree with you on pickem though. I would've expected him to have put forward some thoughts on the players remaining about the game as a whole

[Mr.Sandman]

*sigh* you know I'm voting Zaj, right don?

Last time I simply updated Dizzy's vote count. This time I ISOed everyone and double checked everything. As it turns out, SSS was voting Zajnet this whole time. I didn't check to see if there were any other errors at that time, but assuming there wasn't, that was a hammer. Mr. Sandman and his unnoticed comment were right. That's a lynch. Don't take my error-ridden word for it. Check it yourself.

However

, should we choose to simply skip the hammer and continue going about the game normally, we would get something more like this. It should be more accurate considering I did it from ISOs and made it from scratch.


Switz, Robocopter87, don_johnson, DavidParker, and ZeroFang are all voting for

Zajnet

. That's 5 votes, putting him at

L-3

. If you count SSS's vote thats 6, and L-2, but since he's requested replaced I'm not sure whether it counts or not.

Zajnet, Sanxion, Mr.Sandman, and mallowgeno are all voting for

Robo

. 4 votes,

L-4

.

Enigma has a lone, useless vote on

don

. 1 vote,

L-7

.

Muthaa has a lone, useless vote on

wacka

. 1 vote

L-7

.

Something doesn't sit right with me about this post. Firstly, is it not more than convenient that for scum to search through and find a lynch of a townie, a lynch he wasn't part of? A townie who wasn't on the lynch, why would they bother, when they have no desire to have that person lynched? The whole, skip the hammer and continue the game, thing, seems improbable to me as well. I can't think of any mod who would say just play on if a majority was missed, which makes his effort to look as though the lynch didn't really happen, contrived.

[Mr.Sandman]

DGB, you still haven't really commented on

that

post of RC's. I can't ignore it and it has scum written all over it pretty much

[Mr.Sandman]

I still haven't completely written you off either but the fact that neither of the other two have mentioned it probably says something. What's your feeling? My hearts says pickem, but my head says RC just for that post

[Mr.Sandman]

I'm disliking RC more and more

[Mr.Sandman]

vote pickem

[Mr.Sandman]

Not me. I've been sitting here refreshing the page for the last 24 hours

[Mr.Sandman]

I can't take this anymore

[Mr.Sandman]

Interesting take. Why's that last bit was aimed at me specifically, when pretty everyone, minus most of the replacements, were no different - Sanxion, Muthaa, Zero etc. I'll hold my hands up and say yes, perhaps I could've put in more the last two or three game days. But to be honest, those days in the middle when everyone was just wagoning and it was just getting ridiculous, I got a bit disillusioned. I probably should've asked to be replaced but there had been enough replacements as it was so I thought I'd keep going. Then hito and ythill came and did a lot of detailed work which I appreciated cause I was really busy for a while.

I don't know where you get I had no thoughts of my own, though. The last two days, yes, I followed others and I'm glad I did because my decision to vote pickem today was largely based on the fact that hito, ythill and DGB had all pinpointed pickem as the remaining scum. They'd done the analysis, and it seemed acceptable and I had no idea what to do on my own, given RC's horrendous post. However, I put forward one of the first cases on SV, I was onto Wacka after the point at which he left, and should've pushed that more, I put forward a case on Robo which I thought was strong (even though it turned out to be wrong) and it was pretty much ignored.

I'm not defending all my actions and saying I had an amazing game. I know I had a terrible game and my activity levels were poor and didn't help the game in general, for which I apologise to everyone, especially the mod. I don't get what the bug you have with me in particular is. After we lynched you as well - don't get where your cheap shot there came from.

Glad we won though

[Mr.Sandman]

That was to Miyu

Ythill did a fantastic job replacing in.

Agree to this

[Mr.Sandman]

Agreed. Wacka should pretty much have been nailed on scum when he left