Mad World: Time Travel Mafia (Game Over)

[diginova]

Random VOTE: Zang for being first on the list.

[diginova]

Seraphim's a spy! Get him!

[diginova]

L-4 on page two seems just a

little

excessive on page 2, doesn't it? I'll hold my vote until we hear from Tasky.

[diginova]

Anon, why am I on your probscum list? I just wanted to give Tasky a little time to explain before putting him at 3 away from lynch only a couple real-life hours into D1.
And since the RVS is over,

Unvote

. Yet again, I'll hold out on voting TheLonging until he responds.

[diginova]

Interesting. Question about your list: Why aren't you on your own list?

It's a bad idea to put everyone on a list; Anon's type of list (top 3 suspects) is the best. It doesn't give the scum a shopping list as to who to kill.

[diginova]

gandalf5166: What was your reason for extending Tasky's wagon? Were you just following along with everyone else or did something specific (other than the double standards) strike you as particularly scummy?

[diginova]

GhostWriter is the only one here who hasn't spoken up. Let your voice be heard!

@MoI: It may be that I'm more used to non-MS players that will just jump on and follow the wagon without actually reading causing L-4 to quickly turn into L-2 and then a quick scum hammer, but overall a 5-person wagon in 135 minutes just sits wrong with me, especially with just three posts total by the wagonee.

Since the wiki links seem to be gone from profiles, do any of you have some sample games I can read to get an idea of playstyle?

[diginova]

*adds "wagonee" to the wiki*

Well, what else would you choose for "someone being wagoned"? You can't use lynchee unless it goes all the way to a lynch, and Chrome says even that isn't a word.

[diginova]

Join the club of massively long V/LAs from mafia!

PMs stay in your outbox until the recipient picks them up; it allows you to edit or delete it.

I don't like the "I'm town" or "townie, like me" that everyone seems to want to sneak into a post. It tells absolutely nothing.

[diginova]

I wasn't judging my comment on the votecount. And it did grow fast, regardless of whether it was dying out.

So what was it judged on, then? And that's not what you said. You said you unvoted because you didn't like

how fast the wagon was growing.

Not

how fast the wagon grew

. You see the difference?

Though it could be a slip, I'm always weary to question people solely based on semantics, as a less-than-perfect grasp of the English language does not make you any more scum or any less likely to scumhunt.

However, Zang's quote about him lurking as town is not good. That does not help the town, as it makes it more likely you will get lynched (bad) and less likely the scum will nightkill you (also bad). No matter if it's unintentional or not, it's still not a good thing.

[diginova]

Ah, missed that post. That makes Zang a better proposition for scum/worthless town, especially due to his track record of lurking.

[diginova]

Pro-tip: Backtracking is first saying one thing (valid or not), and then reversing your stance and saying another thing once someone puts pressure on your original premise.

I don't really get why that is necessarily scummy... if someone sees he was committing an error, what's so wrong about admitting it?
wouldn't it be more scummy to stay on an argument that has been shown faulty?
I could accept it as a scumtell if the first argument was scummy in the first place, but what need is there to appeal to backtracking then?
so actually I think backtracking is (if taken alone) a null-tell

Backtracking is a null tell at certain times, especially if the person putting pressure brought up either a logical fallacy or radical new information, but backtracking whenever a little bit of pressure is put on you is a common scum tactic to try placating everybody so they aren't under suspicion or the eventual lynchee.

Tasky and the others who this is their first game on-site: How would you describe your playstyle? Do you have any links to sample games off-site that can be viewed for some background information?

[diginova]

EBWOP (after 2 ninjas): Answering my own question, since this is my first non-Newbie: I'd say my playstyle is probably overly cautious; I don't normally place non-RVS votes unless they do something that is overtly scummy or after a fair amount of discussion.

[diginova]

Uh... you've been here since 2007 and you're only a Goon? /facepalm

I played in a newbie all the way back in 07 and had a completely idiotic scum partner who pretty much gave up on the game. I then left for about 2 years or so, then came back and pretty much stayed in MishMash until a couple weeks ago since classwork took up 8 hours a day. Now that I've graduated, I have more time to actually play Mafia.
Thus why I replied to my own question, since I don't think anyone here has played with me.

[diginova]

The second Newbie game I just replaced into recently is one of the worst games of mafia I've ever played. It was so bad that no actual newbies remain.

Computer engineering with a minor in computer science. I prefer coding for low-level rather than high-level devices, but yeah, pretty much a CS.

[diginova]

EBWOP: My avatar is from the rather ironic scene http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WxJECOFg8w .

[diginova]

EEBWOP: That's a rather horrendous version of the scene. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvQ0EjeO_pc is much better; it starts around 4:30 in.

[diginova]

PS: I'd really like you (RC and diginova) to post something useful instead of going off topic

Can you please answer my question in 162?

[diginova]

PS: I'd really like you (RC and diginova) to post something useful instead of going off topic

Can you please answer my question in 162?

For clarification, you are referring to the playstyle for those who play offsite in post #164?

Post 162 was RC's.

Ah yes.

[diginova]

Tasky, while you wait to answer my question in 164, another one for you: If you had a single daykill that you had to use right now, who would it be on and why?

[diginova]

Sorry about that, I missed your post. I replied to my own first question on 167, quoted below.

EBWOP (after 2 ninjas): Answering my own question, since this is my first non-Newbie: I'd say my playstyle is probably overly cautious; I don't normally place non-RVS votes unless they do something that is overtly scummy or after a fair amount of discussion.

In terms of the one daykill, assuming I had to take one, I was originally going to place it on ReaperCharlie due to his lack of relevancy that made him seem like he was hiding something, but that was a minor point that truthfully isn't enough to warrant a vote, but he was the most suspicious of a lot of players that I can't really get good reads on right now, and deserves at least

FOS: ReaperCharlie

.
However, the recent discussion on TheLonging brought up some points that I found interesting; I'm going to go and do an ISO on him and will have my results later tonight, which may change my decision and possibly warrant a vote. I don't want to take others' interpretations without reading the exchanges myself, though.

[diginova]

In Iso0, TheLonging's question about posting in twilight is odd. The main beneficiaries of not being able to post in twilight are scum, as they can just quickhammer and prevent discussion about how the power roles should act / prevent additional discussion that could out them.

In Iso1, he states he doesn't like the RVS and takes a single small point and votes Tasky. However, he then keeps on this vote, constantly saying that it's a good idea without giving any additional reasons up through Iso6.

I think the main issue going on is TheLonging trying to add snark to his comments such as the "if you say so Master Overlord" and the constant joking. It seems like the constant joking is trying to hide actual thoughts that may seem scummy in a layer of misdirection. The sarcasm doesn't help town as it causes confusion and deniability as to whether or not you are serious at any point in the game.

In Iso18, he states that he doesn't vote using meta as the sole reasoning, but gut feelings are different. Gut feelings are actually at best a form of meta, especially if you've played with them before, and at worst detrimental to successful scumhunting. As you showed with your Tasky vote, you had a gut feeling initially and that caused you to continue claiming scum without giving any new information. It's hard once you get an idea in your head to move away from it, as shown with your continuation of Tasky as a main suspect based on the same minor point of the push of ckd.

TheLonging, you got my vote.

Vote: TheLonging

Thus, following up on 207, I would change the target to TheLonging, though I would still have hesitation to shoot as it's only Day 1 and there hasn't been too much useful information put on the table.

[diginova]

but then CKD unvoted for going V/LA...

now, since I assumed he was so sure, I found it somehow strange that he unvoted, even if he was V/LA so I thought that maybe he had changed his opinion about gandalf...
but the only thing which had changed between him voting and him unvoting was the razorback-thing... so, if he had unvoted for having changed his mind, only that thing could have been the reason, and I found that highly unlikely...

this is why I asked my questions of post 211...
I think the only possible way for my argument to be wrong is that the assumption (that CKD was 100%-sure about gandalf being scum) was wrong, so I'd like to hear from him whether that assumption was true or not

Actually, it's pretty common no matter how sure you are to unvote before going V/LA, so if new clues emerge while you're gone, you don't still have a vote that can influence who gets lynched, especially at games where most votes at deadline determines the lynch. I truthfully don't think it's too much of a scumtell.

[diginova]

Bah. Go town or Bah. Go scum?

[diginova]

What is a reverse survivor mason?

[diginova]

RC, you can keep poking fun AT THOSE that might not like the fact that you are voting and keep not reading the thread ( I mean I get being busy), but how long is too long in your opinion to keep doing that?

Usually I do it until people start a wagon on me, but it's already started so I'll have to read some time today I guess =\

Hecka busy... ugh

That is not useful for the town. At all.

Also,

Anyways, since I haven't read the thread yet, a random vote is as good as any.

It's day 2. There have been 12 pages of discussion. This is not the RVS.

VOTE: ReaperCharlie

[diginova]

Prob scum

Longing

diginova

...

I was going to push a diginova wagon (iso looks terrible with few strong positions and some InformationInsteadOfAnalysis but the "bah go town? or bah go scum?" (post 245) gives me some kind of pause.

Any specifics as to what specifically you got out of my ISO that has me on your probscum list other than the fact that I am overall a cautious player and didn't like an RVS wagon?

In addition, after reading your ISO, it seems you're saying that people are town based on people that agree with you and, specifically recently, have very little reasoning and just follow the popular votes, possibly to try to blend in with the town.

In ISO2, you reply "Good posting" to RC for

Your logic seems practiced and valuable.

Also, I like that I'm on your probtown list.

Sir, you have my vote.

How is this a post that is worthy of recognition, other than the fact that he's agreeing with your logic and following your vote? It seems you're trying a little too hard to push your viewpoint and get others to agree with you.

In ISO3, you update your town/scum list, saying that Gandalf's reaction reeks without giving any examples why. What do you believe that putting the same town/scum list with a few additions in a majority of your posts contributes to the game? Do you think people would have forgotten your previous list, or are you just trying to drive home the people that you think are town?

In ISO4-7, you keep specifying that you want TheLonging dead, going as far as putting "I want Longingscum dead under a grave" as your only content in ISO6. Yet in ISO8, in your continued update of your scumlist after not posting at all for over a week, you remove TheLonging from your list *without any explanation* and state that RC is losing town points for not doing anything, after you yourself were absent. The part that to me is very scummy is you adding Tasky to your list *without any explanation*, going so far as to change your vote to him and saying that "Tasky is the next good wagon."

Speaking of IIoA, why are you giving no reasons any more for changes to your list? You seem to just be following the majority, jumping off the Longing wagon when it became unpopular and onto the other most popular wagon. You haven't given any useful information or analysis since July 1, and you just seem to be active lurking yet making it seem like you're giving new information due to your constantly changing scum list.

I still don't like RC for the reasons I laid out in 283, and my vote on him will continue until he posts useful information, but I will go and

FOS: Anon

.

[diginova]

EBWOP: Since my main question seemed to get muddied by the rest of my post, I'm restating it here:

Anon: What caused the changes in your scumlist between Day 1 and Day 2? What in Day 2 either confirmed or changed your reads from your list in ISO3?

[diginova]

Pro-tip: Another reason why succinctness is pro-town: because then your main point doesn't get lost or muddied up by the rest of your wall-o-text.

I thought I was relatively succinct for an ISO where I was laying out examples, but I just put it in the middle of a paragraph for some reason instead of separated out where it was visible.

And RC, PLEASE post some in-game content shortly. Read the thread and give your thoughts instead of continuing to lurk. You signed up for this game, now play it and help the town scumhunt or kindly replace out.

[diginova]

Yep... I will be posting a readthrough analysis today.
And not because everyone asked, either. Just... because it's time.

It's funny that so many people are asking me to though.
Why does my opinion matter any more than anyone else's?
Other people are slacking off too...

Because you specifically posted that you didn't even *read* the thread, stated that you normally *don't* start reading until people start wagoning you, and random voted on page 12 for no apparent reason. Others are lurking, but they aren't posting that they're actively avoiding even reading the thread as a whole.

[diginova]

RC said that he wouldn't read the thread until he had a wagon. If you see my post in 300, I will strongly consider removing my vote once he actually posts content. A townie that doesn't even read the thread is not a good idea.

[diginova]

*pokes RC*
This is getting old.

[diginova]

A cautious player is more likely to be scum. Can you cite examples of that cautious behavior in other games?

Sadly, not without breaking any of the "no talking about ongoing games" rules. The site I played on before MS is long gone, and my only completed game in MS was over 3 years ago.

[diginova]

UNVOTE:

[diginova]

[quote=anon]diginova, I never left TheLonging wagon. You should try to read the game as a whole.[/quote]
Okay, I epic fail. I apologize for that; I can't believe I forgot that he was lynched. I should really reread context when I post ISOs. Won't happen again.

[diginova]

@diginova: Any reason you didn't vote Anon now that RC did post content?

Because I epic failed and forgot that an ISO doesn't involve every post in the game. I would still prefer some more explanation about specific posts that he finds scummy instead of just listing his scum, but it's not enough for a vote.

I did learn not to post when I'm in the middle of work and not thinking fully about the game, though.

[diginova]

EBWOP: After looking through my notes, I realized what happened. The other game I'm in is in D1 and I confused games. Forgive my pointless ramblings and I'll continue looking for mafia.

RC, we're still waiting for part 2 of your post.

[diginova]

RC is probably using that Transformers pic as a breadcrumb, but I still don't like his excuse that he lost the second half of his big post and is not trying to recreate it.
I won't put my vote back on his wagon until it gets as insane in terms of delays as it did last time.

On another note, can anyone with more G1 Transformers knowledge than me tell me what a crumb of http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Rhinox would mean?

[diginova]

RC is probably using that Transformers pic as a breadcrumb, but I still don't like his excuse that he lost the second half of his big post and is not trying to recreate it.
I won't put my vote back on his wagon until it gets as insane in terms of delays as it did last time.

On another note, can anyone with more G1 Transformers knowledge than me tell me what a crumb of http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Rhinox would mean?

More likely, the picture references the post above. Rhinox replaced Alpha Werewolf. But seriously, rolefishing much?

I wasn't meaning for it to be rolefishing; I was trying to glean something out of what little information RC gave us in terms of in-game content to try to get some form of read on him.

[diginova]

Alright, just finished reading the whole thread. Unfortunately, nothing really stuck out to me as a launch pad for my asking some questions and getting into the game. You guys should all ask me some questions or something to help me get going. I should be able to pick up and comment on stuff in real time from this point forward, but nothing much that happened in the past stuck out to me.

Here are a couple things from the recent past that I can comment and ask on, but its not much. Sorry, its the best you're getting for now.

digi #325: so, what about reaper's posting caused you to unvote? I'd ask empking the same question, but I doubt I'd get an answer.

The main reason my vote was on RC at that moment was that he said that he wouldn't post anything until he had a wagon going on him. I find active lurking to be much worse than actual lurking, and RC was very bad at that, and he actually posted some game-relevant information. Truthfully, at the time of my unvote, RC had promised a second part of his post, and I assumed that the initial prod would be enough to get him to start contributing, but if he keeps posting in line with his latest #369, my vote is going back on him very shortly.

Rhinox, if you could successfully cause anyone in the game to be lynched as of this point, who would it be and why would they be the most helpful lynch choice?

[diginova]

In fact, I'd like you to make one thing clear: Do you think he's scum, or do you just not like his active lurking? Also, did you think he was scum earlier, when you voted for him, and did you somehow change your mind when he did post content? I'm not really sure what to make of someone who essentially uses his vote as a prod.

I actually find active lurking to be a scumtell more than just uberlurking. I forget who originally brought this up, but I agree with the fact that town will mainly lurk enough to get prodded, while scum will lurk, yet still pop in and say something whenever they're called. The fact that RC constantly has enough time to post worthless joking content and ask why people are voting him shows that he's following the thread, he's just trying to stay under the radar so as not to say anything that could be evidence against him later. A breakdown of his ISO (he's posted 55 posts):

DAY 1
0: RVS vote
Iso1-4: Joking about avatars, "I should probably read my role PM"
Iso5: RVS vote
Iso6-8: random points about the thread with no analysis, "I haven't been reading the thread too closely"
Iso9: Follows Anon's vote since "his logic is practiced and valuable" and "I'm on [Anon's] probtown list"
Iso10: OMGUS vote
Iso11: Replies to mentions of him with one wrd each
Iso12-17: More joking and contentless posts
Iso18: OMGUS vote
Iso19-27: Explaining basic concepts, more joking, also saying that he's busy with his other game
Iso28: Jumps on the Longing wagon
Iso29-30: More joking

DAY 2
Iso31: "I need to re-read"
Iso32-33: Speculating on the role, yet again contentless posts
Iso34: OMGUS vote, after complaining about OMGUS in 31/33
Iso35: "Usually I [don't read the thread] until people start a wagon on me, but it's already started so I'll have to read some time today I guess =\"
Iso36-42: More joking and "pro tips", "My analysis is coming"
Iso43: His one post with some content, but mainly just IIoA and more joking as he claims. He calls me out for explaining things in 60-61, while he's done that pretty much all game. Votes and unvotes in the same post, which has been covered before.
Iso44-47: "Wait for the second half" / "I deleted the second half" / Transformers picture
Iso48: Vote with no reasoning whatsoever
Iso49-52: Wants explanation for votes still on him, more joking
Iso53: Gets fake-jokingly defensive (lol followed by gtfo) when I ask about some actual contribution

Someone who has posted a full 14% of the posts in this game yet has told so little is very telling, and that's why I am strongly considering changing my vote back to him, and this time it would have nothing to do with his lurking and everything to do with the fact that he's acting pretty much exactly like stereotypical scum.

[diginova]

Yikes, even after reading everything again, I couldn't find any solid reads. That still hasn't changed from the recent behavior. All I know is that I don't think the cases against Tasky, SF, or RC are strong. I also don't like his active lurking throughout, but I don't think that's enough to warrant another vote on that wagon. As for the old point about Shark and not knowing if someone was dead or not, I really don't see that as a scumtell (or a towntell either). Anyone can miss a part of a post, especially with these kinds of roles involved. And for Tasky... I don't even know what the actual case against him is.

One thing I'm wondering about:

Someone who has posted a full 14% of the posts in this game yet has told so little is very telling, and that's why I am strongly considering changing my vote back to him, and this time it would have nothing to do with his lurking and everything to do with the fact that he's acting pretty much exactly like stereotypical scum.

So what's stopping you from voting him?

He reported being on V/LA, and I don't want to bring him to L-2 until he has one more chance to post the other half of his content post, so I can analyze him more accurately than just a scumtell based on his lurking habits. I really don't want another mislynch.

[diginova]

unvote, vote sharkfin

Please explain why you're switching wagons.

In addition, RC, what is the point of doing setup speculation? What will we gain from this that makes this more worth your time than actually posting the second half of your analysis.

[diginova]

LynchMePls:

I know you didn't want to comment on Tasky's votes, but as you're taking over his spot (and probably his suspicion, though most of the Tasky votes were just bandwagon-jumping), two questions as to your analysis on his playstyle? Not counting the hammer vote, if you had to say whether or not Tasky's play was helping or detrimental to the town, which would it be? Were any of the votes on Tasky warranted in your eyes based on Tasky's posts?

In regards to one of the points in your analysis of me: While I admit the four posts you brought up were contentless and could be construed as active lurking, they were over a timespan of a total of 30 minutes on the third real-life day of the game, and I was responding to RC's attempt to get to know me since almost nobody here has played with me before.

RC:

an answer to my question in 436? How do you think setup speculation will help us find the scum? With four days until deadline as of the time of your post, why not focus attention on scumhunting instead of trying to distance everyone from it and waste time?

I want to hear RC's response and reread both through day 1 to see if the night choices gave any additional information before voting as well as an Iso of SharkFinn since his posts have somehow evaded me.

[diginova]

where does your neutral gropu end?

What is the benefit of asking for an entire list, let alone being so specific? Are you trying to make sure you don't have any suspicion on you so you can fly under the radar? In past games I've been in (which, truthfully, are limited), such a list is pretty much just a list for scum to go down killing without having to analyze things themselves.

[diginova]

RC, PLEASE answer some of the questions asked of you when you comment next. It's rather obvious that you are just reading the post or two above yours whenever you post, and as has been said as nauseum before, it doesn't help at all. I don't buy the "I don't have time" excuse, as you obviously have lots of time to post fluff.

I will ask you again, and bold it to make sure you get it.

An answer to my question in 436, please? How does setup speculation, or any of your other posts, help us find scum with deadline approaching

[diginova]

So you thought he was active-lurking scum all along? I don't get your immediate unvote, then. That you unvoted as soon as RC contributed suggests that you were just wagoning onto him so he would be forced to contribute, yet now you're saying he's scummy for active lurking? Why did you unvote your best suspect just because he made an ISO? Doesn't make much sense to me.

I originally thought he was just active lurking, and since he said he wouldn't even

read

the thread until he had a wagon on him, my original vote was just to put pressure on him to contribute, thus the unvote when he made his post and claimed there was more coming.

Since then, he's continued obviously just reading the last post in the thread before replying, trying to slip under the radar and constantly making excuses as to why he didn't post that would overall take longer to write than an actual post. Even worse, he's recently posted questions that do not help the discussion at all, while continually active lurking, turning my read on him from just "townie playing a game" to "scum trying to avoid having to actually post content."

(continued with my analysis and vote)

[diginova]

When making reads, I really hate meta, so I will just take this game in isolation as playstyles change. Of the three main wagons, nothing's going to change with RC, and even though he is very scummy, lynching him won't give any information to go on when tomorrow dawns, and hopefully if we have a vig he gets killed so we don't have to waste a lynch.

In terms of Alpha Werewolf/Rhinox, I don't see any actual opinions being formed anywhere, other than a discussion of semantics in 406 that reads like WIFOM to me. I still can't wrap my mind around the reason for Alpha Werewolf voting right before replacing out, but overall he's not as scummy or as useful a lynch as the final wagonee, SharkFinn, who has actually had votes this game that will provide useful analysis.

He begins by instantly wagoning on Tasky using the vague "double standards" reasoning, then a minute later pushes for his quick lynch. Early on Day 2, it seems he is trying to get people to jump on the Tasky-wagon and hopefully get a quicklynch so we won't have any information heading into D2, which he immediately gets gandalf5166 to follow on. Even though he was pushing for the lynch, he then instantly started moving away, stating that he'd move off the wagon after he hears from Tasky in Iso2, and that he already had intentions to jump off the wagon if it got closer, even trying to deflect over to Longingtown for explanation as to why the wagon started.

He only had a single vote on him at that point, yet instantly started deflecting when the slightest question was asked of him. Someone wants to distance himself from any and all possibility of being viewed as scum. Hello, scum.

In Iso5, he opens up a can of WIFOM with his "Personally, I'd rather be on the Prob Town list, but that's just a sane villager PoV", in addition to calling Zang out for pinging players as he's currently bandwagon jumping. After another vote on by Karma, he backs off instantaneously again in Iso8, but leaves open the possibility of jumping back on if the bandwagon starts getting rolling.

His information in his read on gandalf in Iso11 is mostly craplogic, specifically his first four points, including his "BIG SCUM READ!!!". Enlighten me if I'm being dense here, but how is someone reacting to a neutral tell with faux-sadness such an obvious scumtell?

On day 2, he continues his tunneling even though Gandalf died trying to start back up his wagon. I find this aspect of this post scummier than the voting for dead people that others have pointed out. He doesn't even bother analyzing what the flip means or even what the hammer tells us, he just goes back to his previous information, possibly because he didn't get anyone countering his analysis, and goes back to trying to hide once he realizes he voted a dead neutral. The Preemptive FOS he gives in Iso15 is

entirely

pointless, putting an FOS on Karma only if RC flips scum. He then flips again, stating that RC is leaning on twn in his very next post, following CKD, and that the RC wagon isn't great in 17, though he FOSed RC previously.

In 21-23, he states that Empking is scum just because he's lurking, even though there "isn't much here overall to work with". Just the fact that he's lurking along with two gut votes does not make a valid reason to vote someone D2. There is much more information and many more players that are scummier that are more deserving of a vote. He finally flips again to either Tasky or RC, yet in his re-read he switches his final decision to Rhinox since it was getting to be a popular wagon again.

Overall, SharkFinn has given very little useful information of his own, gets overly defensive whenever someone votes him or disagrees with him (continuing even with his most recent 487) and keeps jumping from bandwagon to bandwagon based on popularity. He is by far the most useful lynch today.

tl;dr: VOTE: SharkFinn as it will give us the most information after the flip. L-2.

It seems I can't make short posts. Sorry about that.

[diginova]

I doubt it worded what my problem with digi was better than I did. This answer doesn't cut it digi, because you have never went back to voting RC. The post you unvoted RC for was not content, it was just a long contentless post.

He promised a continuation in the very next post, and in every other game I've played, once an active lurker is called out by a wagon on them, they continue posting content. It turns out I was wrong as to how much RC lurks, but SharkFinn was still more suspicious until his claim.

I agree with your analysis of shark. On the otherhand, I sort of feel like you're using it as a reason to not have to re-vote RC. Just the post previous, you just got done saying you thought RC was "scum trying to avoid having to actually post content." But now you say his lynch won't give us any information so its not a good one. Isn't it good to lynch scum?

It is good to lynch scum, thus why I voted SharkFinn. In my opinion, his lynch had a higher probability of hitting scum than with RC, since I actually got concrete and continuing scumreads on SharkFinn. I'm not sure what to think about his claim of redirector. It's not excessively common of a role and the flavor fits, yet I have some nagging doubts, especially since scum normally get fakeclaims in a Large Theme.

However, it was enough to push SharkFinn out of my #1 scum slot for now. I'll see what his night actions tell us over the next couple days, but I will UNVOTE: now and vote my other main scum read, VOTE: ReaperCharlie. I don't even have Rhinox in my top 3; other than the WIFOM and the vote before replacement, I'm not seeing what everyone else seems to be.

[diginova]

EBWOP: With a quick site-wide search for redirector, it seems about 50/50 for town v. scum alignment, so I think the redirector part of the claim is probably accurate. Now the role name and the alignment, that's up in the air right about now.

[diginova]

desu
desu.

PLEASE no. This is not 4chan. We actually have intelligence.

[diginova]

Now I'm utterly confused... My result said Alpha targetted Mafuyu.

That's interesting, since Mafuyu replaced in here on July 17, and Day 2 began here on July 9.

You even replaced in here the day before Mafuyu, so there's no way Alpha targeted her.

[diginova]

digi, I want to make sure I got this right.

Rhino says "My result said Alpha targetted Mafuyu."

Mafuyu entered the game post 352

Rhino entered the game in 342, I assume that he got the above "quote" when he entered the game...so there is no way that he got the quote because Mafuyu was not in the game yet..

am I understanding, your line of thinking?

unvote.

That's what I'm saying; I may be overthinking this a little, but it's a common slip some people make when trying to make a fakeclaim.

[diginova]

Rhinox (7) - Budja, SharkFinn, Anon, LynchMePls, CallMeLiam, I doubt it, Empking

And that's -1.
I'm going to give it one more read to see if I missed anything before hammering.
I will UNVOTE: , since my vote on RC isn't doing anything as deadline approaches.

[diginova]

LMP is probably town, no matter how scummy he's acting.

Look at Budja's 633.

Nice scumslip .

Its pretty clear Kage. We want to lynch Rhinox first because he is a PR (a scum one). LynchMePls is for tomorrow.

He started the bus on Rhinox in 468 based on a "catch". I understand bussing Rhinox, since defending him would be a null cause and the bus would give him town points. However, why would he want to line up two scum lynches in a row? It would be very detrimental to his wincon as mafia.

Also, Rhinox claimed Mafuyu was the Time Traveler's Wife, but it turned out to be CML. Was he just lying outright or was there a redirection somewhere?


Now, some information to be placed out there. I'll give analysis on it once I have more time to read through.

Budja

's reads in this game (

karma

's in parentheses):
Town -

Anon

, CKD, Empking, RC, Robbnva
Scum - SharkFinn(), LMP,

Rhinox

, (Zang) (

TheLonging

)

Rhinox

's reads in this game (

AW

's in parentheses):
Town -

Anon

, CKD, (Tasky)
Neutral - SharkFinn
Scum - RC(), Robbnva, digi, (

TheLonging

)

[diginova]

EBWOP: I'm an idiot. I was correct in the catch; Rhinox (AW) never targeted Mafuyu, otherwise they would never have known that CML was the Time Traveler's Wife when making the nightkill.

[diginova]

RC and Robbnva, what do you think of my LMP analysis in 676?

[diginova]

Your #676 is largely WIFOM.

Thank you. I was trying to figure out whether it was WIFOM or actual logic; it's hard when I originally wrote it.

[diginova]

Damn my Internet crapped out right when I was typing this long post

vote ReaperCharlie

he has dodged people's questions, lurked a ton, posted random nonsense, and posted a 100% lie and ignored the question when called on it

lol! what lie was that?

lol, see if you answered my question that last part could have been left off, I realize you were commenting on the Goon under my name

but the rest still stands.

So you're really voting him just on lurking and random posting when other players (such as yourself) have done things that are far scummier? I've marked RC down as pretty much useless; not scummy enough to require a vote but someone that I hope gets vigged before LyLo. He has actually been starting to post threads of content, so he's actually going in the right direction. Congratulations.

[diginova]

I'm sorry about lurking; I have my thoughts on Robbnva at work but I haven't been able to get there.
I'll read KageLord again since I really don't remember anything obviously scummy before this latest interchange.

[diginova]

Reading and will have my thoughts on D3 shortly, so I can actually be more of a contributor and less dead weight. Given up on getting access to my work computer, so I'll just re-write everything.

Two quick things:

1) Mafuyu, your 920 is horrible.

So you believe there isn't a single situation, at all, where Mafuyu could be town? Gee, what about the easiest counterpoints possible? Lazytown. Lurkertown. VI. The scum counterparts of those three. Third-party. You're missing out on a lot of options here.

'
How are any of those useful to the game as a whole? Scum counterparts are obviously scum. Third-party is good to lynch to get them out of the game, as they have other goals besides killing all the scum. VI is completely useless, and lazytown and lurkertown are almost as useless (hello, RC)
The $100,000 question, as you have still not explained your vote on LMP in 841, only stating that you hadn't expressed suspicion of a majority of players:

What were your reasons for voting lynchmepls in 841? You placed an L-1 vote on him, which means you definitely wanted to see him lynched. Specific examples, please.

2) Crypto: What is your opinion on I doubt it's playstyle before you replaced in? Do you think he was beneficial or not to us finding and lynching the remaining scum?

[diginova]

Day 3 Analysis (long overdue)
Sorry about the wall, but it's a catchup.
(+ town, − scum, ± null, ? WTF)

Overall: −All: Sadly, a majority of posts here have been jokes or accusations without reasoning. Entire stings of votes are entirely pointless. Almost the entire game is active lurking, and there really isn't anyone that's pro-town of note.

659: SF: He'll claim his actions today, but doesn't want scum to set up a claim
664: ?But there's no concrete information?
666: −RC: The RVS ended days ago. Literally.
670: And please stop saying you'll reread if it's never going to happen.
672: RC: Please don't answer people's questions for them.

676: ±digi: That is lots of useless WIFOM, and nobody fell for the trap of continuing with it.
678: ±Empking: What's so horrible in his first post? Explain!
682: ±Mafuyu raises a decent point, but why is Mafuyu trying to defend someone else, especially when Mafuyu's play hasn't been great?
688: ±LMP: Why are you trying to give excuses for the play and buddy up to the first person that said you have a semblance of town?
689: −RC: Pot. Kettle. Black.
693: −LMP: Why are you trying to defend against everything, no matter how minor?
696: −Robbnva: Stop backtracking. You have a reason for thinking that LMP is scum, don't change to suit public opinion to try to stay unnoticed.

702: −Robbnva: Still little reasoning. Give explanations for why you're voting or suspicious.
707: −Robbnva: You have had little content yourself that is actually helpful, so just voting someone day 3 because they've "lurked a ton, posted random nonsense" is not a good reason.
719: +SF: Finally gives us information that we can use to analyze and hunt.

731: −Robbnva: "I haven't done anything that scummy, I have basically voted for the people on my scum list"... maybe if you gave actual concrete reasons and kept your opinion for more than one post people would find you less scummy?
732: −SF: "I didn't like his play" is not good reasoning.
734: ±Empking: He already claimed his targets. What else do you want? Stop fishing. Also, if that's a crumb, it's a rather horrendous one.
740: −Robbnva: Stop buddying to LMP. Let them ask questions to people without trying to jump in everytime you see your name.
741: +Robbnva: Actual reasons for a vote. Congratulations. Crap reasoning that seems like you were just clawing for reasons, but still reasoning nonetheless.
745: +CKD: Good defense, though quad posts are a little excessive.

753: −Robbnva: "yes I voted for Lps, but the diffeence is I was not pushing for a bandwagon or asking to start a new one the next day" That's the point of voting. You think they're scum, you want them lynched, you give information, you vote, people discuss. That's mafia. Also, this entire post is pretty much craplogic.
767: −Robbnva: Following again, waiting until someone else votes so you can hide in the crowd
771/774/776/778: −Robbnva: "Also if you really think scum would be this obvious, clearly you are not a very good mafia player" NO. NO NO NO NO NO. NO. That is complete and utter craplogic. WIFOM does not help. At all.

788: RC: See 670. Please stop saying you'll reread if it's never going to happen.
791: −Mafuyu: Wow. Defensive much? Nice OMGUS.
793: −KageLord: With how scummy everyone in this game is acting, a policy lynch is not a good idea. It reads as if you can't be bothered scumhunting so you just lynch the person that's been obvlurking all game.
799: Robbnva: That's because the observation was craplogic. Also, don't start the third person thing.

801: −Mafuyu: WARNING. SCUM. This vote absolutely reeks. This is Mafuyu's second vote the entire game, and just like all of Mafuyu's other posts, there is no reasoning behind it, just bandwagon jumping.
824: Crypto: I think "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." is a more useful Hitchens quote for this game. Welcome.

838: ±RC: Thank you for active lurking. The game's much better because of it. /sarcasm
841: −Mafuyu:

WARNING. SCUM.

This vote absolutely reeks. The second someone tries voting for someone other than you, you jump? You have never had ANY suspicion whatsoever, yet that's enough to L-1.
846: −Mafuyu: And you even admit it.
849: −Mafuyu: So you just keep doing it instead of starting to actually contribute?
850: LMP claims an alignment cop. Up in the air about it. Pretty neutral on LMP overall. Saying you've only found town (and all dead except one) is very safe, since nobody will counterclaim town.

869/870: +CKD: Useful catch on LMP. The calling out a player you knew is town is bad form unless you aren't. Also, don't investigate town unless your sanity is questioned.
872: −SF: Nice complete 180 from 860 with no additional information.
873: −Robbnva: Buddying much? There doesn't have to be a counterclaim for a claim to be fake.

884: −Robbnva: The buddying continues. I point you to 873 to counter "I was the biggest one on his bandwagon".
886: ±Some semblance of an actual case. Yet again, though, Pot. Kettle. Black.
893-896: ?CKD: Odd. I can't really intepret what was going on in your head.

926: Robbnva: Regarding the whole Wilson thing: It's not funny. I'm not sure what you're trying to do with it. PLEASE STOP. NOW.
927: −Robbnva: Back to that same craplogic. "so not helping the town is anti-town"... you mean with so many other people acting so much scummier, you're pretty much throwing down a null vote?
935: How is sanity even coming into question? He investigated people that have DIED and FLIPPED.
937: ±RC: 1 and 2 are correct. 3 and 4 not so much.
948: −Another crap vote from Mafuyu. Surprise.

951: ±LMP: "If you are apathetic you'd be doing us all a huge favor to just replace out. I've tried answering every question everyone has asked and I've been nothing but completely honest and above-board. I honestly don't know what else you want from me." Overly defensive, but could also be annoyed town. Also, why are you even questioning the sanity issue? See 935.
967: +Wow, an actual useful question from RC.
972: −Robbnva: Nice way to give yourself an out when SF eventually flips.
974: −Robbnva: So now you ADMIT that you were bandwagon jumping, but then try to say you've changed?
976: −Robbnva: Complete and utter craplogic. Especially points 2, 5, 8 and 9.
980/981: −Robbnva: Your play hasn't shown you're town. Also, more craplogic. RC isn't helping though, egging him on.

tl;dr:

People that aren't even reading the f'ing game:
Robbnva
Empking
RC (surprise)

Excessive defenses:
Robbnva
LMP
CKD
Mafuyu

Possibly town until proven otherwise:
CKD

Questionable (why are the PRs acting so scummy? They can't ALL be scum):
SF
LMP

Scum until proven otherwise:
Mafuyu
Robbnva

VOTE: Mafuyu

Not really seeing anything on Empking, and Mafuyu is far scummier than LMP.

[diginova]

Robbnva: Defensive much? And what's with all the constant calling of VI?

[diginova]

Mafuyu, please answer my question in 923.

[diginova]

I'm not going to vote Mafuyu yet as it would push to L-1, but I still think Mafuyu is a good vote. See my reasons from yesterday (post 983), in addition to her first post of today... on a no-result from the cop (who is still alive?), she immediately claims JOAT who just happened to target RC as well, and then votes him on literally no information.

FOS: Mafuyu

What is the reasoning for that vote? Why is someone that is roleblocked scum?
Also, you still haven't answered my question back in 923. Please do so.

[diginova]

Rorschach (Watchmen)
Non-Time Traveller
Town-aligned one-shot dayvig with one-shot NK immunity.

Day: One-shot in-thread day-kill. My kill signature is "killed".
Night: One-shot bulletproof.

I haven't used the daykill, as anyone suspicious enough already had a wagon going for them, and I didn't want to waste the ability. I can use it on majority consensus now if necessary. I haven't been targeted yet at night, so that is also still active.

[diginova]

About the killflavor... I actually asked ooba about that, and he specified it is different as there is no "simply". Mine is just "killed".
I also just confirmed with him that my shot doesn't end Day.

[diginova]

Mafuyu:

Also, you still haven't answered my question back in 923. Please do so.

[diginova]

I'm going to wait for the rest of the claims before killing anyone, mkay?

[diginova]

I would actually prefer not killing Mafuyu and just lynching her, and killing someone else. Mafuyu won't give us much information.
It's also odd that we have two claimed JOATs. Both Mafuyu and KageLord both have claimed JOAT (the former directly, the latter by listing off the standard list of powers).

I'll try to find out who would give us the most information for with the kill, as we can't afford to both mis-vig and mis-lynch.

[diginova]

I am really leaning towards using my kill on RC as well. He originally was just asking for a vig with his lurking, but his recent contributions have made it even more likely that he's scum.
We can leave Mafuyu for the lynch depending on the flip, but I agree that the flavor she gave fits with this game, and I've never seen scum/SK be given a fakeclaim that includes flavor. May just be my ignorance.

[diginova]

I really don't want to kill Mafuyu without additional flip evidence, as the flavor seems legit, and she put it out willingly without any prodding by the rest of us.
Re-reading, and will use the vig by tomorrow morning, as I'll be V/LA for most of tomorrow due to moving into a new dorm.

[diginova]

For my sanity, and possibly that of others, all the claims:

Player	Role Name	TT	Powers
crypto
diginova	Rorschach (Watchmen)	No	1 Dayvig 1 NK immune
LynchMePls	Ana Lucia Cortez (Lost)	No	Cop (N1 N2 N3)
KageLord	Tim (Braid)	Yes	1 Doc (N3) 1 ? 1 Tracker (N2) 1 Jailkeeper
Mafuyu	Michael Jennings (Paycheck)	No	Give 1 Roleblocker Give 1 Motivator Give 1 Kill Give 1 Networker (N3)
ReaperCharlie	Leonardo Da Vinci	Yes	Roleblocker (N1 N3)
SharkFinn	Professor X (X-Men)	No	Redirector (N1 N2 N3)

[diginova]

Why should I shoot Mafuyu instead of you? How will Mafuyu give us more information going into the lynch?

[diginova]

So the choices are KL, Mafuyu and RC. I'll sleep on it and decide; I welcome any additional input and thoughts.

[diginova]

I believe this is the best choice based on given information. RC's flavor seems forced to me.
It will also give us lots of information for the lynch.

Kill: RC

[diginova]

I would vote Mafuyu, but a) I want to see what RC flipping town says about everyone else's towniness, and b) I don't want scum to just quicklynch as it is possibly MyLo if the setup is 12-4-2.

[diginova]

@digi: You've cleared yourself to us now. We could really use you in here. Either vote, or participate in the discussion. Doing neither is not helpful.

Sorry, I've been busy due to another year of class starting. I'll probably make it official and

V/LA next 26 hours

, but I'll get in a read of the last 10 pages and a vote.

[diginova]

3. Lol, we'll see. My night action has a pretty good chance of catching scum and/or SK, so... if it works, I'll pretty much be cleared.

A "pretty good chance"? It seemed like earlier when you quasi-claimed it you didn't want to full claim as the activity would tell both the scum and SK tomorrow:

I've never seen this kind of power before and if it's blocked, it will be revealed that it was blocked in-thread the next day by the mod (I had to ask the mod if it was revealed by him even if I was dead). If I'm alive tomorrow or it's revealed that I was blocked, we will know our scum and SK.

Was it just an overstatement originally or can you really guarantee finding all our enemies tomorrow?

[diginova]

After reading through the last 10 pages, I may be being led on here, but I will give KageLord one day to prove his claim.

VOTE: Mafuyu

[diginova]

I assume you meant SCUMday...
Anyway... congrats ooba!
Now when will this sun rise? It's been over a week

[diginova]

So in order to win this I needed to be even more impossibly lucky than I already was hitting TTs every day?

I could have won in a 2-1-1 though so the ending is bs. I still had both a roleblock AND was still 1-shot BP.

[diginova]

So in order to win this I needed to be even more impossibly lucky than I already was hitting TTs every day?

I could have won in a 2-1-1 though so the ending is bs. I still had both a roleblock AND was still 1-shot BP.

Our win condition was to be 50% of the town, which we were. What was bs? You could have won from that position, but we'd fulfilled our win condition.

I'm not saying I wasn't slightly OP, but I'm saying that having a 50% wincon for scum with third-party roles existing is BS especially due to the fact that I could have easily brought it to a draw or win, as I can both kill AND RB the same night. All I needed to do was survive tomorrow and it would be a sole survivor win pretty much guaranteed.

[diginova]

Also, I was correct about the setup being 4-12-2, no matter how odd that setup is.

[diginova]

Not sure about the endgame though... maybe the predetermined tiebreaker was to balance out the sk power?

Read it carefully. The tiebreaker was NOT predetermined... it was determined at the start of Day 4.

[diginova]

Wow I did not see that coming ...

Digi I have to ask - why in the hell did you try to kill Kage when he had all but said he was going to be protected? A kill on Faraday or the Cop would have made much more sense. After all the good fortune you had in killing Time Travellers that one decision cost you the game.

I'm not sure... I think I let the "I'm going to pull this off" get the best of me and it clouded my judgment.
The Night 1 was the only one that was purely luck; N2 was 50/50... there was a crumb, but it wasn't a good one.
Not sure why Mafuyu lied about the TT part...

[diginova]

Time Traveller.

[diginova]

You claimed you were a non-Time Traveller, but then...

Mafuyu,

Michael Jennings (Paycheck)

, Town Item-Specialist lynched Day Four.

Class: Time-Traveler

---

It is now Night 5. Get all actions in by September 8 4:00 P.M GMT