Mini 1005: Mafiaphobes! (Game over)

[Tasky]

I'll answer 6 only.

Usually people who want to end RVS by not saying "End the RVS" are scum.

Asking subtle question to end RVS = scum in my experience.

vote Tasky

wowowo...
1. I actually didn't get the highlighted sentence
2. I think that asking (and answering) question gives town much more information than random voting... however, denying that information by dodging the questions, that's scummy...
so, UNVOTE: Friend, VOTE: vezokpiraka

[Friend]

Asking subtle question to end RVS = scum in my experience.

Link me to some games where this has happened.

Also, note that Tasky isn't trying to end the RVS - she's trying to generate more discussion, which is a good thing. I'll answer Tasky's questions when I get home (I have to go in like 5 minutes) but I find this fairly ridiculous.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

1) Are you scum?

I am not a scum. BTW, I heard this question was made to gain reactions, which worked well in Mini 955.

2) What's the role you prefer to play (nothing to uncommon please), which role do you prefer between townie and scum?

Pointless rolefishing question.

3) What role you hate having in the setup/play against (nothing uncommon please)?

See above.

4) What do you think about bandwagons in early game, what in late game?

Bandwagons are a necessity for us to lynch people. Without bandwagons, there are no lynches. And without lynches, town cannot survive. Early game, it should gain reaction out of a person and that's a great way to bring us out of RVS/RQS. Later in the game, it should be useful for lynching people. Nothing wrong with mindless bandwagoning early in the game, but if you're going to join a bandwagon when we've already gotten something serious out of it, you need some decent reasons of your own before doing so, otherwise, it'll look like you're following the crowd.

5) How would you characterize your playing style?

I don't consider myself a good player, so I don't have a solidified style. However, I'll try to answer this to the best of my ability:

I tend to suspect a lot of people during the game. That means if this game is active, expect me to be looking at around three players, maybe four. Now I don't have the "Everyone is scum!" mentality, but I tend to suspect a lot of people at a time. In most circumstances, I tend to be active in my games, as I do promise strong commitment from me here in this game.

6) What do you think about RVS?

I slightly prefer RQS, but RVS is still a good method on how to start a game. It's a great way to gain reactions from other people and get us into serious scum hunting. Plus from my experience, games tend to go faster with RVS. However, one major disadvantage is that we run the risk of early lynching, which we do not want. Early lynching gives us almost no information to work on the next day. I also personally think we can gain more information with RQS. But then again, RQS has disadvantages as well, but I'm not going into that.

7) How do you hope to find scum?

I will be looking at numerous tells: Distancing, contradictions, hypocrisy, WIFOM, OMGUS, and other things.

[vezokpiraka]

I don't agree with SSBF on the last part. (before the scum tells)
I was in a game where town quicklynched scum on page 2 post 50. They gained a lot of insight just from that speed lynch.


My last vote was half random half serious. I saw this thing with questions for ending RVS. I saw scum do it more that town. Town usually end the RVS by just posting: "The RVS ended".
I don't like tasky's response to my vote.

[Tasky]

2) What's the role you prefer to play (nothing to uncommon please), which role do you prefer between townie and scum?

Pointless rolefishing question.

3) What role you hate having in the setup/play against (nothing uncommon please)?

See above.

question 2/3 are not role-fishing... I honestly want to know from you which role you prefer to play and which roles you don't like to play against (or with)...
this can be used later in the game for analysis of posts...

e.g. I think that someone is more likely to be passive if they are playing a role they dislike...
knowing ones favorite role can turn useful later on... see it as a kind of investment, everybody invests 10 seconds of their time to tell us their favorite role and maybe we get to use that information later in the game... it's probable that it won't serve any purpose, but it could be helpful later, so it's definitely an investment that's somehow favorable

_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_

I don't agree with SSBF on the last part. (before the scum tells)
I was in a game where town quicklynched scum on page 2 post 50. They gained a lot of insight just from that speed lynch.

but more talking = more information = good...
quicklynching is almost always bad...
please provide the link for that game

My last vote was half random half serious. I saw this thing with questions for ending RVS. I saw scum do it more that town. Town usually end the RVS by just posting: "The RVS ended".

I don't think there is such a hard division between RVS and not-RVS... the borderline is quite fluid...
usually one get's out of RVS once the first bandwagon (which is usually totally random) is derailed and people start analyzing that bandwagon.

I don't like tasky's response to my vote.

what exactly don't you like?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I don't agree with SSBF on the last part. (before the scum tells)
I was in a game where town quicklynched scum on page 2 post 50. They gained a lot of insight just from that speed lynch.

You can gain more informations with more posts. Let's say that the particular person gets lynched and flips scum, only that it's at the end of the deadline with more posts. That means there's more data to analyze then you had with fifty posts. It gives us more oppertunity to search through posts for connection and makes finding scums easier.

question 2/3 are not role-fishing... I honestly want to know from you which role you prefer to play and which roles you don't like to play against (or with)...
this can be used later in the game for analysis of posts...

Those questions are rolefishing because they can potentially reveal town power roles. If you are scum, then that means you could use those data to kill a potential power roles. And tell me, how can the question be used for analysis?

[jayfl383]

I think the vote kinda looked OMGUS...I mean if I refuse to answer your questions does that make me scum? Some people have different opinions, I found it odd though that you voted for Vezo without any concrete evidence other then the fact he didn't answer your question just like 80% of the rest of the people...just saying.

[ChibiSanNub]

I think the vote kinda looked OMGUS...I mean if I refuse to answer your questions does that make me scum? Some people have different opinions, I found it odd though that you voted for Vezo without any concrete evidence other then the fact he didn't answer your question just like 80% of the rest of the people...just saying.

Pretty much this. Your post pretty much screams "OMGUS," Tasky, and most of your questions are borderline-useless and won't add anything to the discussion.

e.g. I think that someone is more likely to be passive if they are playing a role they dislike...
knowing ones favorite role can turn useful later on... see it as a kind of investment, everybody invests 10 seconds of their time to tell us their favorite role and maybe we get to use that information later in the game... it's probable that it won't serve any purpose, but it could be helpful later, so it's definitely an investment that's somehow favorable

So... How are your questions NOT rolefishing? You said that you want people to answer your questions so you could attempt to figure out their role later in the game. Hurrrrrrrr.

I don't agree with SSBF on the last part. (before the scum tells)
I was in a game where town quicklynched scum on page 2 post 50. They gained a lot of insight just from that speed lynch.

I think we'd get a lot more information if we lynched scum with a fair amount of discussion than if we lynched scum while barely through RVS. There don't seem to be many instances where I think a quicklynch would be better.

[quadz08]

1) Are you scum?
No! Gosh, so rude.
2) What's the role you prefer to play (nothing to uncommon please), which role do you prefer between townie and scum?
I'm honestly pretty unfamiliar with roles. This is only my second game haha. I prefer PR's (especially kinda crazy ones) but I just like playing, mostly.
3) What role you hate having in the setup/play against (nothing uncommon please)?
None of the ones I've encountered so far haha.
4) What do you think about bandwagons in early game, what in late game?
In early game, they're somewhat unavoidable. During RVS, unintentional or joking bandwagons are going to happen, providing discussion fodder. As the game gets serious, though, I find bandwagons to be scummy. They remove independent thought.
5) How would you characterize your playing style?
I don't really have a solidified style just yet.
6) What do you think about RVS?
It's a good way to get things going. RQS can be more effective sometimes.
7) How do you hope to find scum?
Questioning and analyzing play, I suppose.

[quote = "vezokpiraka"]
I'll answer 6 only.
Usually people who want to end RVS by not saying "End the RVS" are scum.
Asking subtle question to end RVS = scum in my experience.
[/quote]

He did mention before the questions that he was attempting to cut RVS short. I don't feel like he was being subtle at all.

Also, discussion == town, especially in early stages.

[diddin]

I don't agree with SSBF on the last part. (before the scum tells)
I was in a game where town quicklynched scum on page 2 post 50. They gained a lot of insight just from that speed lynch.


My last vote was half random half serious. I saw this thing with questions for ending RVS. I saw scum do it more that town. Town usually end the RVS by just posting: "The RVS ended".
I don't like tasky's response to my vote.

I don't really agree with this... RVS seems to end for different times for everybody from my experience. However, RVS seems to have ended and we're doing questioning now.

now... since I'd actually like to get out of the RVS fast, I'll ask some questions for you to answer...

1) Are you scum?
2) What's the role you prefer to play (nothing to uncommon please), which role do you prefer between townie and scum?
3) What role you hate having in the setup/play against (nothing uncommon please)?
4) What do you think about bandwagons in early game, what in late game?
5) How would you characterize your playing style?
6) What do you think about RVS?
7) How do you hope to find scum?

1. Nope
2. Unimportant, possibly rolefishing.
3. See 2
4. RVS bandwagons are a great way to get out of RVS as they tend to draw out reactions really easily and almost never end in a lynch. Late game bandwagons are a big scumtell in something like a LYLO situation, but a late game bandwagon can also be caused by a cop's guilty report or something along the lines of that.
5. Normally make fairly short, but insightful, posts, and occasionally post long ISO's, but nothing wall-of-text-ish.
6. It does the job of what it was made to do as long as people don't use it as an outlet to spam or it drags on too long. I'll often start RVS wagons over silly things to draw out reactions and begin actually scumhunting.
7. Looking for standard scumtells, but we probably have a few power roles to help us if they stay safe.

unvote

I see my RVS plan was successful.

[Oso]

Hell, I give this a go before I start.

.
.
1) Are you scum?
2) What's the role you prefer to play (nothing to uncommon please), which role do you prefer between townie and scum?
3) What role you hate having in the setup/play against (nothing uncommon please)?
4) What do you think about bandwagons in early game, what in late game?
5) How would you characterize your playing style?
6) What do you think about RVS?
7) How do you hope to find scum?

1-No.
2-VT/town - SK/scum
3-None really but not too fond of cult games.
4-BWs in early game: Unavoidable, so I have come to accept them. Late game: Don't like them generally. Why? Too much of an MD topic to get into in the middle of a game.
5-Logical. If people are making fallacious arguments, its a flag to start looking at their play and figure out why they are making them.
6-Neutral. Given I like logical play, any randomness skews my preferred play style but they are fun for thinking up one-liners based on peoples names/avatars.
7-See #5

[Friend]

1) Are you scum?
2) What's the role you prefer to play (nothing to uncommon please), which role do you prefer between townie and scum?
3) What role you hate having in the setup/play against (nothing uncommon please)?
4) What do you think about bandwagons in early game, what in late game?
5) How would you characterize your playing style?
6) What do you think about RVS?
7) How do you hope to find scum?

1. No
2. Town
3. Jesters
4. Good. Bandwagons give us information. One vote ain't gonna do anything useful.
5. I ask lots of questions, am un-trusting, try to get as much info as possible before finalizing my scumpicks.
6. I like it. It does its job.
7. Scumhunting.

unvote

I see my RVS plan was successful.

What are you referring to here?

[Friend]

Asking subtle question to end RVS = scum in my experience.

Link me to some games where this has happened.

Do this please.

[Friend]

P.S. (lol triplepost)

I don't find Tasky's questions to be rolefishing. Answers to the "what role do you like" question are too WIFOMy to analyze anyways.

[diddin]

I'm referring to starting a wagon in RVS to generate discussion.

[Friend]

Oh.
Do you find Tasky scummy for what you claim to be rolefishing?

[Tasky]

I really don't understand the rolefishing claim... I want to know what role you prefer to play/what role you don't like to play against... I'm not asking you anythink about this game...
this is just so I can get a sort of personality profile... people tend to play differently when playing roles they like than if they play roles they don't like...
just because one says he likes to play cops, that doesn't influence whether he is cop or not...

_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_

I think the vote kinda looked OMGUS...I mean if I refuse to answer your questions does that make me scum? Some people have different opinions, I found it odd though that you voted for Vezo without any concrete evidence other then the fact he didn't answer your question just like 80% of the rest of the people...just saying.

two things:
1. not answering questions is denying information... and thats scummy
2. "you voted for Vezo without any concrete evidence"... well, there was definitely more reasoning in that vote than in all the random RVS-votes

I think the vote kinda looked OMGUS...I mean if I refuse to answer your questions does that make me scum? Some people have different opinions, I found it odd though that you voted for Vezo without any concrete evidence other then the fact he didn't answer your question just like 80% of the rest of the people...just saying.

Pretty much this. Your post pretty much screams "OMGUS," Tasky, and most of your questions are borderline-useless and won't add anything to the discussion.

they are definitely more useful than random voting... borderline-useless is better than plain useless

[xvart]

Vote: xvart

You're lying, you have no friends.

lol. Fair point. My online persona was supposed to make me feel otherwise, so thanks for destroying my self esteem!

I think I'll vote Friend since I just voted him in the other game (popularity mafia)
VOTE: Friend, for scaring that poor cat

Hmmm... I don't like this vote because it is one of those boderline random/not random votes. Even though the non-random vote had absurd justification, why did you need to follow up with a RVS justification of "scaring that poor cat"?

now... since I'd actually like to get out of the RVS fast, I'll ask some questions for you to answer...

1) Are you scum?
2) What's the role you prefer to play (nothing to uncommon please), which role do you prefer between townie and scum?
3) What role you hate having in the setup/play against (nothing uncommon please)?
4) What do you think about bandwagons in early game, what in late game?
5) How would you characterize your playing style?
6) What do you think about RVS?
7) How do you hope to find scum?

1. No;
   
2. I think roles that require a lot of outside the box thinking; mostly that come up in theme games;
   
3. I haven't come across a game with a role that I hated;
   
4. I think bandwagons early game are wonderful. Late game, I think they are not as great as there is more personal information available and seeing who is bandwagoning and why can be determined by previous play;
   
5. I don't think I have a specific playstyle, but I typically focus on one scummy person and press that person until I am convinced otherwise or that person is lynched;
   
6. I don't really have an opinion about RVS other than I find it annoying that it seems inevitable that the debate about the value of RVS tends to come up;
   
7. Why are you asking? You want to know what to avoid doing?

this is just so I can get a sort of personality profile... people tend to play differently when playing roles they like than if they play roles they don't like...
just because one says he likes to play cops, that doesn't influence whether he is cop or not...

Do you think having these personality profiles is more beneficial for scum or for town?

So... How are your questions NOT rolefishing? You said that you want people to answer your questions so you could attempt to figure out their role later in the game. Hurrrrrrrr.

I tend to agree, and despite any WIFOM arguments knowing what roles people prefer to play can be more beneficial to scum because if they have no other leads they can always fall back on "well this person said they don't prefer playing powerroles and he doesn't appear to be enjoying this game, so maybe that person is a powerrole."

unvote

I see my RVS plan was successful.

What RVS plan?

xvart.

[Oso]

Major contradiction here Tasky, as I see it.

- snip -

I'm not asking you anythink about this game... this is just so I can get a sort of personality profile... people tend to play differently when playing roles they like than if they play roles they don't like...
just because one says he likes to play cops, that doesn't influence whether he is cop or not...

I think the vote kinda looked OMGUS...I mean if I refuse to answer your questions does that make me scum? Some people have different opinions, I found it odd though that you voted for Vezo without any concrete evidence other then the fact he didn't answer your question just like 80% of the rest of the people...just saying.

two things:
1. not answering questions is denying information... and thats scummy

- snip -

First saying that the questions have mostly nothing to do with this game except to help you build a personailty profile.

Then saying that not answering questions is denying information so therefore scummy?

What

Seems to me like you custom tailored a situation where you could auto-vote anyone as scummy based on not answering your questions. Add in the fact that you already noted that those questions were pretty much for your use alone and you get a situation where...wait for it... that not answering questions that have no direct bearing on the flow of the game except for one person is scummy? I'm sorry that answered them myself now.

What I'm not sorry for is that my vote is already on you from the RVS

UnVote:Tasky

Vote:Tasky

Just so there can be no mistaking that my RVS vote is now a serious vote.

[diddin]

Oh.
Do you find Tasky scummy for what you claim to be rolefishing?

Not really, just something to keep in mind a bit later.

However, the contradiction Oso pointed out is in fact scummy, so

Vote: Tasky

@xvart: look at my last post

[Tasky]

First saying that the questions have mostly nothing to do with this game except to help you build a personailty profile.
Then saying that not answering questions is denying information so therefore scummy?

a personal profile of everyone helps me finding scum...
not answering my question denies me this information, and makes it more difficult for me to scumhunt
since everyone can also use the same technique, this information could be used by everybody, therefore, denying it to me also means that it's denied to everybody else who'd like to use it...

Seems to me like you custom tailored a situation where you could auto-vote anyone as scummy based on not answering your questions.

so how could I auto-vote someone as scummy if he told me their favorite role is [insert role here]??

_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_

I think I'll vote Friend since I just voted him in the other game (popularity mafia)
VOTE: Friend, for scaring that poor cat

Hmmm... I don't like this vote because it is one of those boderline random/not random votes. Even though the non-random vote had absurd justification, why did you need to follow up with a RVS justification of "scaring that poor cat"?

because that's the same justification I gave in the other game... simple as that

this is just so I can get a sort of personality profile... people tend to play differently when playing roles they like than if they play roles they don't like...
just because one says he likes to play cops, that doesn't influence whether he is cop or not...

Do you think having these personality profiles is more beneficial for scum or for town?

definitely town... scum already has (almost) all information they need... if I know more about you, it will be easier for me to find out whether you are scum or not...

[Friend]

I don't understand Oso's contradiction. I don't want to defend Tasky here because I think he's pretty scummy anyways, but I still don't get it.

UNVOTE: SSBF
VOTE: Diddin

Jumping all over that came off as quite opportunistic.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

1. not answering questions is denying information... and thats scummy

No, not answering RQS questions is not scummy, it's a personal choice. Later on, when you're actually asking questions that actually contribute to the game, ignoring it constantly is scummy, but choosing not to answer RQS questions isn't scummy. This is why having a mixture of RVS and RQS is the best way to start a game IMO.

definitely town... scum already has (almost) all information they need... if I know more about you, it will be easier for me to find out whether you are scum or not...

The scums know who are the townies and who are the scums. But like townies, they can learn more. Information is helpful to town, but the downside is that they can sometimes be helpful mainly to scums. Scums want power roles dead before normal townies and by asking those questions, you are giving the scums an advantage.

I like the case on Tasky so far.

Unvote, Vote: Tasky

[Friend]

SSBF: Tell me what the case on Tasky is, in your own words.

[Tasky]

definitely town... scum already has (almost) all information they need... if I know more about you, it will be easier for me to find out whether you are scum or not...

The scums know who are the townies and who are the scums. But like townies, they can learn more. Information is helpful to town, but the downside is that they can sometimes be helpful mainly to scums. Scums want power roles dead before normal townies and

by asking those questions, you are giving the scums an advantage.

the highlighted part reeks... you think that creating information can hurt town?
how exactly are those questions supposed to give the scum information on the power roles?