Newbie 980 ~ Game Over

[Earlder1]

Vote: Nexus

for "always" being confused and being new.

[Earlder1]

Just to kind of start some sort of discussion here, what is everyone's experience with the game? On this site?

[Earlder1]

I've completed only 1 game on this site, which I won as town. I replaced out of a mini game because it was too fast in which I was town alligned, and the town ended up losing. I was lynched in Newbie 958 and flipped town and I am currently in Newbie 963, still alive.

So I have some experience here, but not that much. I've been playing mafia in RL for years, but usually have to mod because other people screw it up.

[Earlder1]

Wow. My bad. It won't happen again...

[Earlder1]

I'm reading through the thread right now...

[Earlder1]

Well, I don't have much to comment on. Welcome Haylen, thank you for replacing. Still don't see much discussion going on here, so I refer eveyone to my question about experience. Those who haven't answered, what is your experience here.

@Haylen
Am I an SE? lol What makes someone an SE because that is news to me.

[Earlder1]

Well, the reason I asked again is because some people still hadn't answered. If everyone was on board the first time, I wouldn't ask the same thing a second time. Also, I agree with Beefster. I figured this would promote discussion, as opposed to distract people from it. We are on page 4 and most of the activity has been centered around Millar. I'm not sure what discussion I would be steering the town away from.

[Earlder1]

Welcome Zajnet.

I have no idea what 1:1 and 2:1 mean in terms of school. That's all I can really say from the previous posts lol.

[Earlder1]

Well, I will respond to Haylen's questions as well.

1. A lurker, probably Bag
2. Well he is definitely a lurker, which is anti-town in itself. Also he is new to the game and I've found that most players tend to post a lot in their first game and are usually not lurkers because they are excited about playing it. Of course, there are times when newbies just flake as well. But in general, I think a new player (Nexus is a good example) will post more and try and be active, that is unless they are scum and trying to avoid slipping up.
3. I don't like lurkers. They are anti-town and really hurt the game.
4. Not really. I'm pretty busy day to day but I should be able to post every day or every other day at the very least. I'll keep everyone informed in anything changes.
5. No. I don't intentionally lurk. I try and post often and provide analysis as much as possible. Sometimes, I check the thread and I don't find anything in particular to respond to, so I don't and check later, but I'm not lurking on purpose. I just need to have something to say, or I won't post. My posts are never meaningless.

In terms of Jmurph's response top Haylen, I like it. I tend to be a more logical player myself and avoid gut feelings. His answer seems fair, and a decent one. I'm intyerested to see what Haylen has to say to this.

@ Nexus
Has anyone (besides maybe Haylen) really contributed anything else? There are lurkers who haven't posted anything substantial. Is my double question really that suspicious to you? I'm just asking because I want you to analyze yourself. It's a good habit to get into.

[Earlder1]

Fair enough. Hunches are hunches and people are going to find you scummy in any game you play. It's just the nature of varying opinions.

[Earlder1]

Well, let's try and start something.

@ Bag
Why no investment in the game?

[Earlder1]

If multiple people are replaced out, it's possible we will have an extension so that we can get everyone involved.

[Earlder1]

Whoa, this is an explosion of posts within about 24 hours. I will post tonight because I am busy currently, but I'm glad there's finally activity

[Earlder1]

Alrighty then, let's get rolling.

I agree with Haylen's analysis of Nexus' posts so some extent. As for tunneling, I'm not sure there's really enough information to make that claim, but I do see some of Nexus' posts in a rather scummy light. His defense is awful as well, which has pretty much confirmed my vote on him. For all of you guys with notes keeping track, my vote is no longer due to the RVS, I believe Nexus is the scummiest player in the game.

As for Haylen's request for a list, I am going to politely deny that for similar reasons. Any number of lurkers could also be scum and giving full lists would give them lots of information useful to lead to mislynches before they even contribute. Therefore, I'm just going to stick with this.

And now I will respond to Haylen's questions to me.
1. I like to know, mainly because it can help me gauge how much experience that person would have, as well as give me a place to meta if I feel the need.
2. I don't really like cases based off of gut and they tend not to convinve me. I do get my own gut feelings but I correlate them to actual deductions I make about how they have played in the game. I am unimpressed by "gut voting".

[Earlder1]

Well I got prodded again, even though I posted two days ago. Oh well.

Modnote: Your last post was Sunday at 3:29am

After reading the thread, there are a few things I would like to mention, but not incredibly much because I feel I should read the thread again to fully understand and analyze it. First off, don't be so smug Nexus. It is annoying. You can think people are scum and have scum motives and it's fine to say that, but don't assume you're correct. Haylen could easily be town and you being so set on Haylen being scum would just hurt the town (assuming you're town as well). I still don't like Nexus' posting, even the recent ones. His jump onto the Haylen wagin is terrible, to say the least. I admit that Haylen is suspicious, but that jump is too unsettling for my liking. My vote stands.

Otherwise, I don't really have too much to contribute atm. I will reread the last few pages a time or 2 more and then post deeper thoughts. For the record, I am suspicious of Haylen, Kov somewhat, and obviously Nexus. I am getting town vibes from jmurph.

[Earlder1]

Well, in response to Kov, I just haven't been on since Sunday (until yesterday) and so I was shocked I had a prod when it still felt to me that I had posted recently. I hadn't read the thread in between and been "actively lurking" or anything. I just hadn't checked on Monday or earlier on Tuesday than the prod I received. Btw, I am in the pacific timezome so my references in timing are a bit later then most of everyone else's. What I mean by that is, I posted Sunday night, and it didn't feel like it had really been that long when I got prodded on Tuesday night.

Did I clear things up?

I also still plan on rereading the last few pages to get a better grasp on things. I will post my thoughts soon enough.

[Earlder1]

Allo

@ Flay
I was just busy on Monday so I didn't get a chance to check in. It's not a schedule or anything, I just happened to not be available that day.

I really don't like Haylen's 242. I think it is pretty unfounded, at least the part regarding the suspicions of Flay. I think Flay's posts have been perfectly logical and sound, and I haven't noticed any reaching statements. I also was not sure what exactly was meant when Haylen said that she (he?) knew Millar's role. Haylen gets a little scummier in my book from this.

Reagarding RudeBoy's suspicions of Kov, I can see some of the points that are made, but Kov is a newb, and in that context, he may not be so scummy. I'll have to look back into him in more detail, but for now I'm pretty unsure. I get town vibes from Rudeboy.

Zaj, I think you need to post a bit more. Your one sentence since I last posted is not much...

As much as I really hated Nexus' defense, I can help but see Haylen as scummy. My vote will remain on Nexus but I would be fine with voting Haylen as well. I don't see anyone else (besides Nexus and Haylen) that I get obvious scum vibes from, so I guess I'll leave it at that.

[Earlder1]

Lol, it's nice of you to answer Nexus' question Haylen, but shouldn't you also respond to some of Beefster's issues with you. Not mentioning his post directly after he posted it is a bit odd.

[Earlder1]

Well, I give Kov points for catching that in Haylen's response. Yeah, Haylen is definitely acting scummy. She claims to know who the scum are.

Who are the scum for sure Haylen?

The only way you would really know is if you were scum.

[Earlder1]

In post 285:

...I've told you who the scum are...

I am not twisting your words at all. You claim right here to know who scum are. No one is twisting your words at all. I think moving away from that defense would greatly help your case because misinterpretation and twisting are completely different. I don't see anyone as maliciously takin what you say and changing it to suit their wishes. This case with me is a prime example. I did not twist your words. That is exactly what you said, and claiming to know who scum are is a bit of a scum slip because only scum can really know who scum are.

[Earlder1]

Snap dag,

I was busy all day, but I will definitely post tomro.

My opinions haven't changed. I still believe Nexus and Haylen are the scummiest players in the game. But yeah, more tomro.

[Earlder1]

Aloha everyone, I am caught up and ready to post.

I think the primary subject that deserves attention is the spontaneous Zaj wagon. It is clear that Zaj has not contributed much, as shown by his 1-3 sentence posts, and occasionally his one word posts such as "jmurph". Although, the seemingly only reason (except for one post of his) for him to be scummy is his lack of contribution, I agree that is a valid reason for a lynch, especially on day 1. We managed to hit 16 pages of activity, which is good, and of course that lends itself to actual cases being built because there is a pool of content to gather information from, but day 1 is still so early. Lynching the lurker is definitely a possibiliy in terms of what will enable town to collectively win later on. even if Zaj is town, his lack of contribution is anti-town, and some would say I am not contributing as much as I should, but I am posting when I can and trying to post content. Regardless, my point is that a Zaj lynch is not a bad idea, and I definitely identify with the reasons behind it.

One other interesting thing about Zaj is this post here:

Only that you're the only other person I've really seen as scummy so far. I would need to ISO you better before wanting to lynch you, but you're the only other person I'd vote for right now besides Haylen, unless somebody brought up what I find compelling evidence on somebody.

This is in response to Jmurph questioning why he would be Zaj's second choice for a lynch. This is the second time that Zaj says he would need to do an iso on someone to get a better read. Well, do a frickin' iso then! Zaj adds stimpulations to his scumhunting, which is quite suspect. He says he would take a closer look at Flay IF Haylen flips town, and now he says he would need to do an iso on Jmurph IF he would consider lynching him. Part of staying on track with this game is doing those things that will give you better reads, whether they br prodding someone, doing an iso, or looking at meta. For goodness sake, do them! 1-3 sentences every day or two does not help the town one bit. Also, why so undecided this late into the day. There are 16 pages of content to look at, and all Zaj has to say can be paraphrased as "Haylen is scummy and maybe Jmurph". I'm sorry, but that is not much of an opinion. Overall, I would be perfectly fine with a Zaj lynch, but, as mentioned, his response is critical before this turns into action.

Now, moving on from him to Haylen, I'm getting less and less happy with this wagon. Admittedly, Haylen has posted scummy things , and has absolutely no answer for those (myself included) who refute her claim that people are twisting her words.

@Haylen

Iso me and read my third post from the bottom (as of this one's posting) and please respond. Also, feel free to respond to any of the other times people have quoted you to prove they are not twisting your words.

Eithe way, as of late, this wagon is losing steam as it probably should. Her posting has been much better and even though she claims being bipolar as a defense, her posts have been more analytical (as Nexus mentioned). Furthermore, I think the loss of Haylen would greatly inhibit the town's ability to stimulate discussion on day 2. She has been one of the more consistent and content filled posters in this game, and I feel that cannot be overlooked when considering a lynch candidate for day 1. All in all, Haylen is still suspect in my mind, but I would rather not have a Haylen lynch today.

And lastly, there is Nexus. Nexus asked recently why I still think he is scummy and my answer is that nothing has changed. All of the earlier posts that incriminated you have not left my memory, and those were enough to convince me of your scummy alignment before. Some will say that Nexus' poor defense is a newb tell more than anything, but to that I say hogwash. His reactions did not sit well with me, and still don't. His posts as of late are not saying too much, but merely echoing other people's posts. His reasons for any suspicions are sloppy at best and often just plain assumptive and illogical. I don't like his play.

Just briefly, in temrs of Kov, several red flags that were raised for me abotu him earlier have not really panned out and I see him in a neutral light as of now. Although claiming to vote and not change it is quite stubborn and anti-town (bloodthirsty as Flay calls it), I see this more in a newb light than anything. Also, I find it hard to believe that scum would come on that strongly, but that's just my opinion.

So overall, I am going to pute my vote on Zaj for the aforementioned reasons and also because I don't see a Nexus lynch occurring today. This puts him at L-1, so before anybody hammers, wait for his explanation.

Unvote: Nexus; Vote: Zajnet

[Earlder1]

Lol, I understand possibly a2rudeboy, but you think I would waltz in and hammer Haylen after my last post? Your fear is unfounded, Nexus.

[Earlder1]

@Haylen

Your entire case on Flay is based off of your opinion that "a experienced player would never use semantics to get a lynch if they are town...". This is merely an opinion. I don't think it's a stretch to misinterpret what you meant from what you said. Most of the town did, in fact, think you wanted a full list, and just because you meant something different, does not mean that someone who takes what you said literally is scum. If anything, this is all just misinterpretation. I don't think that lends itself to giving away anybody's alignment.

[Earlder1]

Well everyone knows the first person to post during the new day is scum.

Vote: Zajnet

And also all those other reasons from before...

[Earlder1]

@ Jmurph

I'm largely joking for voting because he was the first one to post, although I think there is slight logic behind it. Scum are going to be more interested because they get to see if their action went through. This also applies to doctors I suppose, but it is less useful information for the town to check soon after the day has begun than scum. But as I said, it's just a weak thought.

My suspicion of Zaj has indeed carried over from the day prior and...

@ Kov

Refer to my post 21 in iso, if you need my reasons. I feel I nicely made a case against him "in my own words" as you seem to think I didn't.

Yeah, the fact that Flay is not dead is pure WIFOM, but cannot be ignored. I know from experience as both scum and town that usually the more experienced, seemingly knowledgeable players are NK'd first in newbie games. That is, unless they are scum. However, WIFOM is still WIFOM and doesn't really change an opinion I have on Flay, at least not yet.

Other than Zaj, I still have my suspicions about Nexus but I will definitely reread to get a better feel for other players that have not left a lasting impression on me (such as jmurph and Beefster).

And I definitely cannot see a Beefster-Flay scum pair from Beefster's post that mentions he expected one of them to die. I see absolutely no scum agenda in this. As for their individual alignments, nothing is really given away but together, I cannot see them as scum.

[Earlder1]

@Beefster

Ok, my little joke at the start of the day is not my reason for voting. My reasons for voting Zaj are outlined in my iso post 21, as I just mentioned. Yes, I made a joke. No, that is not my reason for voting.

@Jmurph

What is contradictory? I am still suspicious of Nexus, but I didn't see a reason to pursue him at the very end of day 1. Now that it's day 2, I am not any less suspicious of him. I am however, still suspicious of Zaj and that is why my vote is there. I see two people as scummy and I can't vote them both.

[Earlder1]

Once again, I find them both scummy. I made the comment about not voting for Nexus because I did not think it possible to get a Nexus lynch on day 1. In terms of relative scumminess, I would actually put Zaj as a little scummier because I can maybe excuse some of my issues with Nexus as his playstyle.

Basically, I find them both scummy. I can't vote them both so I am voting one of them. I feel Zaj is more scummy so I am voting him.

If a wagon forms on Nexus, I would be happy to place my vote there as well.

[Earlder1]

@ Flay

Posts like those don't help. There is clear AtE, especially with the added eye rolling smiley. It's fine is you predicted a wagon on yourself if Haylen flipped town. Haylen clearly thought you were scummy, so that is perfectly understandable. Also, you have the same number of votes as Zaj if my memory serves, and it's only 2. There is no need to complain about it. Posts like these do not help the town and only serve to try and make people feel bad for suspecting you. Please provide a more analytical and logical response.

@ Jmurph

Townies create cases on townies and tunnel townies all the time. Why does this signify Flay as scum?

[Earlder1]

You make some interesting remarks Jmurph, and I will make sure to consider them when I reread Flay.

Regardless, should he really be at L-1 already?

Even if people find him scummy, we just started day 2. I see it as far too risky to have him sitting there with only a hammer needed. Plus, this is all tunnelling. Even if the majority of the town think Flay is scummy now, don't just sit with your vote on him. Throw your vote around and let's get some discussion rolling. In my last game (Newbie 963), I won as scum by just voting twice (then double voting with my partner on day 3 ftw) and keeping my vote where it was until people joined me and mislynched. Don't let scum do this here.

I've been pretty busy these last few days, but I plan on rereading soon and creating a case on a player who's name is not Flay or Zajnet. Hopefully that will spur discussion and attention to people other than Flay.

[Earlder1]

QFT on Kov. In fact, I think I'll give him more of an incentive to post...

Unvote: Zajnet; Vote: Kov

As for Nexus, holy smokes. His play is so pompous and assuming.

"It's already been discussed that I am scum, and I've refuted them over and over again."

Self-righteous much?

"Stop getting so defensive when you're only at L-2, and help find someone else, otherwise you're probably going to get lynched".

That seems like such a threat to Flay. Are you threatening him? Is he really gonna get lynched if he doesn't do what you suggest? Jeez.

I hate Nexus' play, but I cannot see a Newb scum posting like this. It's way too assertive and cocky. I can't picture someone new to the forum posting like this as scum. This seems like an experienced Ythill or Incognito kind of post. I think it's more of a play style disdain when it comes to Nexus than actually thinking he is scummy. I'll look more into this when I reread.

[Earlder1]

Come on Zaj. You have to say more than that. Build a case. What makes Nexus scummy? What makes you think I may be scummy? Let it all out, preferably in more than 2-3 sentences...

[Earlder1]

I feel like I've been keeping up. I check the thread multiple times a day post when someone replies or says something. It was a bit ridiculous that I posted on Friday and no one posted a thing til Sunday. People are supposed to post daily, right?

[Earlder1]

Unvote: Singersinger

I think my vote belongs on Zaj, but I'm not going to put it there yet. I know I have not made a case on someone else yet, as I said I would, but I've been quite busy. Hopefully I'll get to it this week. I do think Zaj is the scummiest person in the game.

@ Mod
I'll be V/LA from this Friday until Sunday 13th-15th

Noted

[Earlder1]

Are you SERIOUS? So you need for it to be at lynch or lose to be able to get a good read? I'm sorry, but this can't get much scummier. I'd vote you, but I'd rather not hammer until I get a response from jmurph and Flay.

QFT.

[Earlder1]

Well, I'm not the doctor. Hmmm, this is a toughie. So apparently Zaj played a lurky anti-town game, but he claims it was so that he wasn't lynched or NK'd early. I think meta may be in order.

@Zaj
Have you had to claim in other games? If so, links? When I say claim, I mean as PR or as scum fake claiming. If you lie about this, we will find out, so links would be nice.

If Zaj has played as scum before and never claimed under pressure, or done so in a different way than here, that may give him some credibility. If there are multiple games of him claiming as scum in a similar situation tho, it may be the same ploy. This really makes me question my reads.

I really don't know where to put Zaj. I'm going to have to think this all over.

@Singer
Zaj was at L-1 by my count, but I could be wrong.

[Earlder1]

Sorry I haven't posted in a bit. I was very busy today, but I'll read through tomro and post my thoughts.